Interesting Rumors for WDW

[Ian]

Matt, I can't speak for SurferStitch, but I wasn't trying to imply that a Four Seasons on WDW property would have any better luck getting those tough ressies or tee times than a WDW concierge would.

What I was saying was, at any other world class resort anywhere in the world, that's what a concierge can do. Get you last minute dinner reservations at a hot spot, procure those tough-to-find theater tickets, or get you a prime tee time at the best local course.

So why in the world doesn't WDW empower their concierge staff to do the same thing?? It's ridiculous and why I'll never pay for concierge level service at WDW again.

[WDWFreek]

Can somebody please explain what exactly concierge service is? And what this whole discussion is about.

[Ian]

Can somebody please explain what exactly concierge service is? And what this whole discussion is about.

Well actually that's sort of what the discussion is about (although I'll admit we're way OT from the point of the original thread).

Most luxury hotels around the world offer the option of staying "concierge" level (or Club level or whatever level the particular chain calls it).

The word "concierge" comes from the French word referring to a caretaker of in apartments or hotels. They typically live on the premises and oversee people entering and leaving and handles mail and acts as janitor or porter. In the case of hotels, they assists guests by providing information and specialized services.

In America, it's normally used to refer to paying extra to get access to the services the hotel concierge can provide. These typically include things like procuring difficult to obtain dinner reservations (usually at trendy hotspots), getting theater tickets to sold out shows, or even getting you entrance to VIP nightclubs. Sometimes they also offer more benign services like handling your dry cleaning or getting your car washed.

But basically they almost serve like a butler service for guests willing to fork out the extra cash for that level of service. Normally, concierge level also comes with some type of complimentary cocktail hour each day and maybe a continental breakfast served each morning.

Now in WDW, concierge level service is not nearly that comprehensive. Basically, you get the free food and drinks and that's about it. They claim to offer you custom itinerary planning, but really all they'll do is make ADR's for you that you could easily make yourself.

The point of this discussion is just to highlight the lack of extra amenities that WDW's concierge level service offers in comparison to other deluxe resorts around the world.

[mjstaceyuofm]

Matt, I can't speak for SurferStitch, but I wasn't trying to imply that a Four Seasons on WDW property would have any better luck getting those tough ressies or tee times than a WDW concierge would.

What I was saying was, at any other world class resort anywhere in the world, that's what a concierge can do. Get you last minute dinner reservations at a hot spot, procure those tough-to-find theater tickets, or get you a prime tee time at the best local course.

So why in the world doesn't WDW empower their concierge staff to do the same thing?? It's ridiculous and why I'll never pay for concierge level service at WDW again.

Ian, I may not know you personally but I know your opinions of WDW well enough to know exactly what you were thinking. WDW probably never tried to offer those types of services because they knew it was an impossibility given the framework of the vacation system at WDW (ADRs, park tickets, tee times, scheduling tours, etc....) I guess I was just venting a little bit of my own frustrations about vacationing in WDW. I love WDW like we all do but have grown increasingly intolerant of the serious mega-effort that goes into planning a few dinners or excursions there....

The point of this discussion is just to highlight the lack of extra amenities that WDW's concierge level service offers in comparison to other deluxe resorts around the world.

The latter part of this thread has definitely gotten OT, but I think a well warranted discussion nonetheless.

[Ian]

I guess I was just venting a little bit of my own frustrations about vacationing in WDW. I love WDW like we all do but have grown increasingly intolerant of the serious mega-effort that goes into planning a few dinners or excursions there....

On that we definitely agree!!

[lockedoutlogic]

On that we definitely agree!!

Second...all in favor? AYE!!!!

[WEDTOPIA]

I have no idea how often/if you travel for your job, but I talk almost daily with people for whom conventions are a way of life and virtually every one of them complains when their conventions are in WDW.

Why? Because they don't get nearly the same level of amenities and attention in WDW resorts as they do at other resort destinations. In fact, the Mortgage Bankers Association used to have their annual convention at the Swan or Dolphin every year, but the level of complaints grew to the point that they've discontinued going to WDW and have moved on to other places.

Ian ,I've never doubted your knowledge on all things Disney , but I find it impossible to believe that after one bad convention experience at Disney that any company would re-book for future considerations. So how does that happen ? Why did Disney build all the convention facilities and why are they constantly booked ? Why is it the number one convention destination ? And coupling that with the overwhelming proliferation of Disney informative literature , the thousands of travel agents who have experienced the resorts first-hand , and the dozens of critical reviews that line any bookstore's travel sections , it would be a deserving fate for any company to wallow in their disappoinment because of poor planning. C'mon .40 million people a year go there. It's the single biggest destination on the planet. How are these secrets being kept ? Using the Swan and Dolphin as key examples takes away from the argument ,since they aren't run by Disney anyway.

I'll be the first to tell you that Disney is way over-priced on their resorts and everything else for that matter , but somehow for me and millions of others ,the cost is justified by the end results .But , as I stated before , location and theming and ,to a slightly lesser degree , the service level that still is a disney hallmark ( I know , I know , there is a contingency out there that thinks Disney has gone down the tubes in this area. I'm just not one of them ) , keep the rooms to almost 98 % capacity. Seriously ,can you think of anywhere you've been that location and theming is such an overwhelming consideration ? People pay the price to get those things. For the most part , concierge service and chocolates on the pillows are not important to 99% of WDW visitors. I agree that if Disney is going to offer concierge service that it should be competently run. And if you have a problem ,you have a right to complain. But I have never had any dilusions that Disney is running Ritz-Carltons on property. For those that rank these things as important or as a given at any deluxe resort , there are some off property resorts that foot the bill. Disney is not the place to go for indulgence in accomodations.

Because of the mix of people that go to Disney , there will never be an exclusive ,immersive ,luxury style atmosphere for people who desire that kind of get-away . It will be interesting to see how the 4 Seasons experiment plays out. I'm betting that most guests will be coming for the accomodations and not the Disney experience. We'll see.

Ask me if I would like to see better trained CM's and the answer would be yes. They could be better. On this we can agree .They could also be far ,far worse than they are . I am very positive about an upgrade becoming a reality , considering the improvements already coming down the pike from the new Disney regime. Since Disney has more rooms on property than most large cities ,you can bet they won't allow a downhill slide in this area.

Simplified as it may be ,I'll stand by my statement that people will keep coming to Disney for the Disney experience.

[big blue and hairy]

I love WDW like we all do but have grown increasingly intolerant of the serious mega-effort that goes into planning a few dinners or excursions there....

I've seen this complaint before and I just don't understand it. DW and I plan our WDW vacations within an inch of their lives, we ADR every sitdown meal. I've almost never had a problem getting the restaurant and time I wanted. I've changed my mind and changed restaurants closer to the vacation and I've still gotten what I wanted. I don't see the problem...

[mjstaceyuofm]

I've seen this complaint before and I just don't understand it. DW and I plan our WDW vacations within an inch of their lives, we ADR every sitdown meal....

And thus the problem - you have to ADR everything. If a day is rained out and you shift your water park day for your Epcot day good luck trying to get a ressie on short notice in Chefs de France.

[big blue and hairy]

And thus the problem - you have to ADR everything. If a day is rained out and you shift your water park day for your Epcot day good luck trying to get a ressie on short notice in Chefs de France.

That's a new problem? DW and I have always said if you don't have an ADR you're toast, and we've been going for 18 years.

[lockedoutlogic]

That's a new problem? DW and I have always said if you don't have an ADR you're toast, and we've been going for 18 years.

Yes...that is a new problem....the old Priority Seating system was thrown out for a hard 100% booking reservation system.

That was NOT how the priority seating system worked. Other than Christmas, New Years, and July 4th.....you never saw them turning people away from the sitdowns like they now do......prior to 3 or so years ago.

Things have changed...not so much for the better.....

The problem with hard planning every meal is the you have to "plan" your every minute and eliminate freedom of choice in the moment.

this is fine for those who hard plan every minute, run from line to line, set every morsel in stone....

but it also serves to hurt the casual WDW-er....like myself. WDW has always been unique in that it attracts those who go to a theme park destination...and take it easy. Would you ever see adult couples without children, and retirees go to a place like Cedar Point or King's Island and stroll around.
No...but you have always seen that at WDW. The crunch on dining and increase in hotel rooms to pour people into the guest areas threatens that populace.
And they are longstanding, valued, and a very important source of cash at WDW since its inception.

Then...there's the "other" thing. The fact that a large number of people abuse the system and book duplicate or triplicate reservations to attempt to "rig" there trips so that they can be casual. I saw first hand that people did this when it was still priority seating (the dining system computer did not lie to those with passwords to it)
Now that restaurants are booked to capacity at all times....it can only be worse.
now please don't give me the "nobody here would do that...never..."
please.....we all know that it is done...especially by "insiders"
I have friends who just did it for their trip in September.

so I guess it's a matter of perspective....if you don't mind having to plan by the minute....and subsequently making yourselves a little higher strung on vacation (if you are already OC...then heaven help you anyway)...then it's no problem.

For many of us...it's already paradise lost

[Ian]

I agree ... We refuse to plan out our trip minute by minute. The day it gets to that point is the day we stop going. That's not our style and it never will be.

It's becoming harder and harder to get around having rock solid ADR's, though. If we didn't go during the real off-peak times we wouldn't be able to get away with it still.

And I agree about the dup and trip reservations ... I know a lot of folks who do that.

[mjstaceyuofm]

Ditto on Logic and Ian's posts. It's even been bad of late trying to get decent ADR's during "off-peak" times when the free dining plan is in effect. I agree with Kevin Yee's thoughts on the whole system - I can't remeber the exact numbers and breakdown he came up with but it went something like this:

allow 20% of the slots to be booked 60-180 days in advance; another 20% 60-10 days out; 30% 0-10 days out and the remainder as walk-ups/last minute.

That allows all facets of people and visitors the opportunity to book their meals ahead of time (either way in advance or a bit in advance), actually during their stay, or the opportunity to have a meal at the spur of the moment.

[lockedoutlogic]

In the aggregate....the priority seating system used to claim somewhere between 35 and 60% of the available tables....on average over the year

that left a sizable chunk to walk ups. Now Disney would say they were underutilizing their inventory....
hogwash....the majority of restaurant tables...in the end...were pretty much full. And, in a supply and demand world...if a restaurant was not filling up...it was probably because it needed to be tweaked or completely reorganized. A nice safeguard to the consumer.

Now they book em solid.....because of the dining plan mostly.

Frankly, it stinks...and it was not always this way. there were always busy times and days where you couldn't get in....now that's on a daily basis....

so now you have to be at a certain, park, a certain hotel, at a very finite timeframe. So you obviously can't spend time in an extra line...can't stay buy the pool for an extra hour or so....can't let your kids rest for awhile before you move on......
and what if your reservation is for 6:30? and you just aren't hungry?
Guess you have to go and stuff it.....

I just don't like how the overall atmosphere has changed.....if even not for everyone.....
It used to be that you could do things "your way"...the logjam at the restaurant podium is threatening many who don't want to play plan-o-matic

The one really big pet peeve is when a guest services rep tells you, "they've always done reservations this way"
Liars....and I am offended by that....Disney should respect it's customers a little more and say something like, "the dining plan has changed the reservations system by increasing demand."

That's fine...I have no problem with that. But undoubtedly the "company line" is to say that they haven't changed a thing.....just given you added value with the dining plan.

I've had this happen to me...casually...on a couple occasions....

don't lie to me...when someone attempts to cover up ...I am always tempted to give them my old employee ID and tell them that they can't give a person such a lame excuse if they used to...literally...do their job.

[big blue and hairy]

allow 20% of the slots to be booked 60-180 days in advance; another 20% 60-10 days out; 30% 0-10 days out and the remainder as walk-ups/last minute.

That allows all facets of people and visitors the opportunity to book their meals ahead of time (either way in advance or a bit in advance), actually during their stay, or the opportunity to have a meal at the spur of the moment.

So...with that logic, I who plan my vacations ahead, will not be able to get an ADR, because you might want go at the spur of the moment. Not only is that not fair to people who plan ahead, it's bad business, you don't take a maybe when you have a yes.

Think of it this way, you're having a garage sale from 7-11. Do you hold back some of the merchandise from people who want to buy it at 9am, because someone might want it at 10:30? That's ludicrous.

[mjstaceyuofm]

It's not ludicrous. How is it that restaurants like Carrabas, Bennigans, Max and Ermas, etc. all stay in business with a no reservations policy? I'm not saying it would work for all restaurants (CRT, V&A, etc.), but it would clearly work for most...

25 years ago when you visited E.P.C.O.T. Center, first thing you did in the morning was sprinted to Communicore to talk to a host on a video phone to make dinner reservations in World Showcase. Guess what, they always held back a few reservations for walk-ups. It worked. There will always be demand. Disney won't be passing up restaurant money. They'll be passing up return trip money.

Disney is penalizing those who don't uber-plan and those who don't know in favor of what they see is a sure - buck. It will backfire on them when people like myself, Ian, or the casual visitor who goes once and then says "never again" because they didn't know all the ins or outs.

[lockedoutlogic]

So...with that logic, I who plan my vacations ahead, will not be able to get an ADR, because you might want go at the spur of the moment. Not only is that not fair to people who plan ahead, it's bad business, you don't take a maybe when you have a yes.

Think of it this way, you're having a garage sale from 7-11. Do you hold back some of the merchandise from people who want to buy it at 9am, because someone might want it at 10:30? That's ludicrous.

respectfully.....

your argument has holes in it the size of swiss cheese.....

Without getting into a whinefest...i'll throw out a few.

1. Many people...particularly DVC, Annual Passes holders....and especially Florida and Georgia residents....don't plan their trips six months or more in advance. They shouldn't have to...short term business is just as important to WDWs business as longterm bookings. It's ludicris to foster a system that intentionally makes it impossible for those poeple to enjoy sitdowns...and in the long run, may drive them away. this is particularly bad for florida residents...many of whom decide midweek to come for a long weekend....and, more than out of state travelers, come SPECIFICALLY to go to their favorite restaurants.

2. The public can not be trusted, frankly, not to abuse the system and book duplicate reservations. I worked in guest services...I have seen this with my own eyes. And that is not fair. I'll tell you why...even if there are no shows....you may go the restaurant at 5:30 and get turned away...then later...at 8:00...they accept someone else to fill in the no show tables on the back end of the night. That is not write...form an honor standpoint....to anyone.

3. You are basically saying that if you don't book reservations 6 months out...then you get what you deserve. some...many...don't know their schedules that far out. some are so busy that they cannot get on the phone with dining at 6:50 in the morning the first day a reservation would be available. And some just don't have the time to devote to planning a vacation in a defined time window. Life is hectic for all people to varying degrees....if everyone pays the same price....then it is unfair to make it so they have to call 185 days to make a lunch date at crystal palace. that is ridiculous. I think they should go back to a 90 day window...or even a 60 day window for as long as the dining plan overloads the table service restaurants. Then more people would have a sense of what they're doing and the field would be leveled.

No offense....but you seem to be saying that your way is the only way that is acceptable.

Not everyone should have a specific version of "fun" jammed down their throat.....

Like....Splash Mountain: 3:15.....Tony's: 4:45...Scheduled bathroom break: 5:41

[llamaface]

Man, if this is the case, I would buy points at either of those places without even thinking about it. We love the Poly, and that it is what is holding us back from doing DVC at the moment.

DITTO!!!

[big blue and hairy]

respectfully.....

your argument has holes in it the size of swiss cheese.....


No offense....but you seem to be saying that your way is the only way that is acceptable.

Not everyone should have a specific version of "fun" jammed down their throat.....

Like....Splash Mountain: 3:15.....Tony's: 4:45...Scheduled bathroom break: 5:41

First of all...you're completely off base. I didn't set the time period for making reservations, and I'm not saying it couldn't be shortened. I was fine with 90 days.

I believe by accusing me saying a specific version should be foisted on everyone, you are saying just that, you want it your way, the way that works for you. If Disney wants to shorten the time for ADRS to 30 days, I could care less, I just make the system work for me and work according to the rules. I don't believe reservations should be partially held back.

As for the Carrabbas reference, they take no reservations, that would be different. What you are proposing would be chaos with people wandering looking for a place to eat, and am quite certain more people would be put out by it than the current policy, regardless of the amount of days ahead of time you call.

My cheese is cheddar, thank you....

[big blue and hairy]

25 years ago when you visited E.P.C.O.T. Center, first thing you did in the morning was sprinted to Communicore to talk to a host on a video phone to make dinner reservations in World Showcase.

25 years ago, a lot fewer people were going to Epcot, we've progressed technologically in 25 years. Like I said, the length of the window doesn't matter to me. If the window is there, I'm using it, and I shouldn't be unable to use it because someone else doesn't want to.