Idea for Disney's Answer to IOA's Harry Potter Land

[lockedoutlogic]

A few things:

MGM was originally a pavilion in EPCOT that was thought up around 1985....remember that Michael Eisner was a hollywood guy who worked for ABC (where he created Schoolhouse Rock...with out which none of us would have ever found the train to conjunction junction...nor would we know it's function) and Paramount (where he was heavily involved in films such as Flashdance, Star Trek, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Saturday Night Fever and Grease...among others)...
So the genesis of a hollywood land was only natural.
They...of course...did accelerate the park to beat the opening of Universal In Orlando...that is pretty much an admitted fact.

Disney's other park moves in the late 80's and 90's were not reactionary.
Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach were a natural follow up to the world's first water park...and that was River Country.
Animal Kingdom was a project that was well underway before IOA was anywhere close to a reality. The prep work alone was rumored to have started around 1990..perhaps even earlier. Eisner famously included the park in his "disney decade" speech in 1990.
Busch Gardens in Tampa had been there in some form since the late 1960's...you can't make a reasonable link to AK.
Disney..again...may have rushed opening to trump IOA or even Discovery Cove...but the generally accepted reason is most likely financial.
Disney's estimates on how much AK cost to the public have been...well...shall we say "liberally on the low side"
Pleasure Island was a goal of Eisner's that he stated in his early days at Disney...Church Street Station may have influence the concept some....but not in any measurable way.
Citywalk at Universal is absolutely a reaction to PI though...

Again...to be clear...universal's attendance is not an issue for WDW....
Disney reported over 47 million visitors last year....universal would be lucky to get 10 on an average year.
Disney...while keeping an eye on universal and sea world....is really like a giant swatting at a gnat.

Besides...those that want to go to universal for a day or even two from their time in orlando....already do...have done it for fifteen years...and still end up in WDW for four or five days...if not more.

As far as the journey into the world of stockwatch....
WDW is one of Disney's cash cows for Disney's other ventures.
When the stocks take a hit....Disney's first response is how to boost theme park attendance to stabilize the revenue....
It's not as though a stock dip is going to do anything of significance for the planning at WDW....perhaps delay some things...but really nothing more.

It's not as though a huge market hit is going to be squelched by a new land to counter Universal's Potter-ville....

let's be serious here.....
....or let's not be so serious and talk about going to WDW...not it's longterm impact on our portfolio.
If you want a good stock tip...i hear amazon did well yesterday

[Speedy1998]

As has been stated previously in this thread, the HP attraction at Universal will be popular no matter what WDW adds. The key is to bring those coming down to the Orlando area to the Disney parks. That has never, really, been a problem.

I am not so sure of this. If Universal does not get it just right they have the potential of ending up with a huge flop. The problem with
HP is that everyone thinks they know what it should look like, if Universal fails to meet those expectations it will create alot of disappointment with the fans, who will not come back.

[lockedoutlogic]

I am not so sure of this. If Universal does not get it just right they have the potential of ending up with a huge flop. The problem with
HP is that everyone thinks they know what it should look like, if Universal fails to meet those expectations it will create alot of disappointment with the fans, who will not come back.

the other thing is that Harry Potter is not going to last forever...

it has been around for over 10 years now...and many kids who read the initial books are out of high school....and it's not as though children's phenomenons have a lot of staying power...

when is this new land scheduled to open? if it is more than 2 years from now...it could be a complete disaster.

Rowlings will laugh her way to the bank though..that is certain

[Polynesian Dweller]

It was announced that the planning is for an opening of HP land in 2010. That is too late. Don't underestimate how quickly the ending of the series will lead to a decline in the enthusiasm. Most of the HP hype right now has been about the ending of the series. Now that it has ended people will move on to the next event just like they moved on from Lord of the Rings.

Yes, people will visit it and it will have an initial rush, but HP as a phenomenon will be over and people will already be thinking of other things. We just don't know what they are because they haven't been produced yet.

[MORTIMER]

While I agree that Disney will not have to add anything to compete with Potter and that it will ultimately only help Disney's business, I would love to see a Star Wars land.

Secondly, I think several of you are seriously underestimating how big Harry Potter really is. I took my 10 year old to get the 7th book last week and we went to the midnight party at our local Barnes & Noble. The store has two stories and is very large, it became so packed that they had to have police at the doors and a line formed that wrapped completely across the parking lot. All of this for a BOOK!

I strongly beleive that Harry Potter is the Star Wars of my kids generation, just as I was excited to take my kids to the rerelease of the original Star Wars movies, my kids will do this with my grandkids some day, only it will be to see Harry Potter. It doesn't matter that the last movie will be out in 3 years, it has taken on a life of it's own.

[BMan62]

It was announced that the planning is for an opening of HP land in 2010. That is too late. Don't underestimate how quickly the ending of the series will lead to a decline in the enthusiasm.

...

Yes, people will visit it and it will have an initial rush, but HP as a phenomenon will be over and people will already be thinking of other things.

As far as the ending of the series goes, well, there are two more movies in the offing, the second of which (based on "Deathly Hallows") should be out in 2010, if the release schedule remains relatively constant. This would give the park a pretty good opening boost. I could see a couple years of really active business before it cools down.

The second point I quoted from your message not only goes for HP, but also for POC. Right now, there is a push on this board, and elsewhere, to Pirate everything in WDW. In a couple years, since the movie series is finished, this will calm down and get 'old.'

[larworth]

Reactionary may not be the apt description in all cases, but surely a mix of reaction, preemption, copy, and influence are clearly evident. Disney has not been above copying someone else’s concept and taking it to another level. We have clear examples where park opening timelines have been impacted due to competitor moves. It would be a bad indictment on management if it was so arrogant as to ignore what was going on around it. No matter what market share it had. I don’t think the question is that Disney never reacts, but was action in this case is warranted.

It is possible that a very successful HP effort will bring more tourists to FL and both parks will enjoy more attendance. However, AK showed this is not necessarily the case. It cannibalized attendance from the other Disney parks, and didn’t create the longer stays or more visits Disney hoped for. I believe Disney came to view Orlando as a fairly mature and saturated market and their WDW investment strategy post AK has followed suit.

If HP is popular, but the market does not get a huge influx of new visitors, than Disney would have less business than it would have otherwise. I can see where it might be prudent to have something interesting to offer, not too long after HP opens, in hopes that any HP migration is short lived. So if your Disney, do you wait and see (with your loooong development times) or do you greenlight a few extra projects now?

[battlefield2freak]

As far as the ending of the series goes, well, there are two more movies in the offing, the second of which (based on "Deathly Hallows") should be out in 2010, if the release schedule remains relatively constant. This would give the park a pretty good opening boost. I could see a couple years of really active business before it cools down.

The second point I quoted from your message not only goes for HP, but also for POC. Right now, there is a push on this board, and elsewhere, to Pirate everything in WDW. In a couple years, since the movie series is finished, this will calm down and get 'old.'

exactly. the HP will calm down a few years after harry potter 7 which might be released in 2009 since they have been putting a new film in the movies each year. and another point why does everyone think disney should react. they have no need to. if they are going to do something the are going to do something which will last for a long time not something like HP.

[lockedoutlogic]

While I agree that Disney will not have to add anything to compete with Potter and that it will ultimately only help Disney's business, I would love to see a Star Wars land.

Secondly, I think several of you are seriously underestimating how big Harry Potter really is. I took my 10 year old to get the 7th book last week and we went to the midnight party at our local Barnes & Noble. The store has two stories and is very large, it became so packed that they had to have police at the doors and a line formed that wrapped completely across the parking lot. All of this for a BOOK!

I strongly beleive that Harry Potter is the Star Wars of my kids generation, just as I was excited to take my kids to the rerelease of the original Star Wars movies, my kids will do this with my grandkids some day, only it will be to see Harry Potter. It doesn't matter that the last movie will be out in 3 years, it has taken on a life of it's own.

I don't think there is a "star wars" of this or any future generation.

Harry Potter has been an amazing franchise...but it will only decline from here on out.
New products are introduced to children everyday...and there attention spans are now challenged by an amazing wealth of mass media bombardment.


Star Wars...as those of the Gen X and pre-gen X generations know it.....will never happen again.

Think about it from a historical perspective...the wizard of oz and gone with the wind ran in first run theaters for 10 years....by the time Star Wars was released...it ran for almost 3 years...an amazing feet for the late 70's.

And so now the paramaters have shrunk more and more over the last 30 years.

Don't underestimate the factors that made star wars what it was.....
Large scale marketing....adult and child appeal....and the introduction of what can be described as "special" sound and visual effects.

It was a perfect storm of pop culture...but don't forget that the time period was part of that as well.

The period from 1975-1995 may..in fact..go down as the most enjoyable time to live in american history....
Developing technology...but not an onslaught of it.....foreign concerns...but no real imminent threat....money spread across the spectrum of society as never seen before...and the first generation of children who's imaginations were unleashed because the restrictions on entertainment due to costs and technology were beginning to be eliminated...

Star Wars can never occur again as it currently stands....
the main reason is that the sheer amount of entertainment options availabe does not allow an audience to be captivated by a single entity for a large period of time.

There's just too much out there for the public to become personally attached to one thing...as many were with star wars.

The best that can be done now is to vary products and offerings to develop a sort of "brand" loyalty....
some companies have done this......you know where i'm going with this one...

And let's not skirt the issue here....the new Star Wars movies were a failure almost anyway you slice it.
A 300 million dollar gate revenue is great....but the new trilogy fell well short of the legendary status that it's predecessors had.
In many ways...they hurt the previous films.

It probably would have been better not to mess with it...in the long run.

The kids that saw 1,II, and III have..by and large...already moved on....
something that the original star wars generation never did....my generation.

Ask yourself? do you ever hear an old star wars fan saying that the newer films are even in the same ballpark as the originals? no...not even close....the highest praise i have heard is "III was "ok"...or "good"

If Disney were ever to build a Star Wars land...which they could never do because they don't own the license and the merchandise revenues that go with it....they would be bombarded with requests to fill said land with old empire strikes back and return of the jedi themed rides...

Lucas would never allow it....he cares more about the CGI and Digital Format used to film the new movies than the fact that the originals are far superior and stirred an emotional response in audiences that will never be equaled....

But i've never seen star wars....is it anygood?

[Darin M]

Create a new Pirates movie with a bunch of new attractions to open in MK simultaneously. Then cast Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) to be in the new Pirates movie, and have Jack Sparrow send him to "the locker"

[battlefield2freak]

uh disney cant make a ride with HP in it because they dont have rights to do it. and yes star wars is good all 6 overall and he was making plans back when the 3rd came out to release all 6 in 3-D and on a boxset DVD.

[John]

I think most posters in this thread have their Disney Blinders on. Harry Potter books are classics that will be read by generations. This is not going away.

Statements like "it has been around for over 10 years now...and many kids who read the initial books are out of high school....and it's not as though children's phenomenons have a lot of staying power..." kill me.

If that were true, most of what Disney is based on would be gone by now.

These books have not only captured the imagination of kids but many adults - myself included.... and if the Park at Universal is done right, it will be something we visit every trip to Orlando. I already think Universal has a great product that has only been getting better - and now with the addition of this Francise, they are going to start stealing vacation days from Disney.

Don't let the fact that most of you have been to Disney multiple times or even yearly discount the fact that for many americans, this may be a once or twice a childhood trip to Orlando in which famalies look at their options in addition to taking a Disney vacation. If Universal can sucessfully get a bigger chunk of folks to even plan just one day away from Disney, that will impact WDW.

Don't underestimate a book and movie series that will have been around 10 years. This is a cultural phenomenon, the likes of which we havn't seen in a long, long time.

[Speedy1998]

I think most posters in this thread have their Disney Blinders on. Harry Potter books are classics that will be read by generations. This is not going away.

.

I agree with this, I mean look how long Davy Crockett stuff was sold in DL and WDW. (Actually come to think of it I think I heard the Ballad of Davy Crockett when I was in Frontierland in June). Anyway, what I was saying is that this is so popular (it sold and average of 100 copies per second all day on the 21st) that if Universal does not do it just right, it will hurt their attendance. On the other hand Disney has been proving for years that if you slap a popular character on a mediocore attraction, you drive up the popularity of that attraction. So I will guess we just have to wait and see.

[AndrewJackson]

I see the HP park as a big success for the first 6-8 years, then Universal struggling to keep attendance high.

The last HP book has just been written. This means that the last HP movie will be released in about 4 years. A couple of years later, kids will be on to something else. At this point the HP park will seem very dated, and attendance will begin dwindling.

While I agree with some of what JohnY stated, I think it would have been wiser to simply build one or two attractions on the books, not an entire theme park.

[Figment!]

... I think it would have been wiser to simply build one or two attractions on the books, not an entire theme park.

They are not building an entire theme park, just retro-theming the Lost Continent area of the park (despite their marketing team using the term "theme park with in a theme park" ).

The new "island" is slated to open with three rides (2 retrofitted, and 1 brand new).

[MichaelMouse2379]

And let's not skirt the issue here....the new Star Wars movies were a failure almost anyway you slice it.
A 300 million dollar gate revenue is great....but the new trilogy fell well short of the legendary status that it's predecessors had.
In many ways...they hurt the previous films.

It probably would have been better not to mess with it...in the long run.

The kids that saw 1,II, and III have..by and large...already moved on....
something that the original star wars generation never did....my generation.

Ask yourself? do you ever hear an old star wars fan saying that the newer films are even in the same ballpark as the originals? no...not even close....the highest praise i have heard is "III was "ok"...or "good"

If Disney were ever to build a Star Wars land...which they could never do because they don't own the license and the merchandise revenues that go with it....they would be bombarded with requests to fill said land with old empire strikes back and return of the jedi themed rides...

Lucas would never allow it....he cares more about the CGI and Digital Format used to film the new movies than the fact that the originals are far superior and stirred an emotional response in audiences that will never be equaled....

But i've never seen star wars....is it anygood?

Lockedoutlogic, I hope you were kidding that you've never seen it, because if so then how would you know that the last 3 werent any good. Not to make this a Star Wars movie critique but epsiode I,II, & III grossed $925million, $648 million, $848 million worldwide respectively. If that is failure, I want that type of failure. Yes some Star Wars geeks were unhappy with the new films because quite frankly nothing would have pleased them. All of those people that told you they hated the newer films said they wouldnt see the next one, and guess what... they went and saw the next one, adorned in their darth vader outfits. And thats exactly what they would do with a Star Wars land, they would be there in droves. You will never please everyone. Quite honestly I liked the older movies growing up, but I cant say I enjoyed them more than the new ones. I am able to seperate the two. Sometimes when you are younger you remember things to be a lot better than they really are. I think thats whats going on with the people that dont like the newest ones. There are still young kids today that love the newer episodes, maybe even more than the older episodes, and thats where Disney could capitalize on the older gen that loves the older episodes and the newer gen that loves the newer episodes. Just seems like smart business move to me, not to mention I love all the Star Wars movies and would spend a whole day at MGM rather than the 4 or so hours I do now.

[jedigrrrl]

the other thing is that Harry Potter is not going to last forever...

it has been around for over 10 years now...and many kids who read the initial books are out of high school....and it's not as though children's phenomenons have a lot of staying power...

when is this new land scheduled to open? if it is more than 2 years from now...it could be a complete disaster.

Rowlings will laugh her way to the bank though..that is certain

Potterland could open in 10 years and people will flock to it. It has staying power. It is not a fad. As a HP fan, I know that for a fact. However, Universal will just let it rot like the rest of it's parks where everything is poorly maintained and herky jerky and smells humid.

People keep posting that KIDS will be on to something else in a few years, but a huge portion(possibly the majority) of the fans are adults.

[jedigrrrl]

I think most posters in this thread have their Disney Blinders on. Harry Potter books are classics that will be read by generations. This is not going away.

Statements like "it has been around for over 10 years now...and many kids who read the initial books are out of high school....and it's not as though children's phenomenons have a lot of staying power..." kill me.

If that were true, most of what Disney is based on would be gone by now.
These books have not only captured the imagination of kids but many adults - myself included.... and if the Park at Universal is done right, it will be something we visit every trip to Orlando.

Don't underestimate a book and movie series that will have been around 10 years. This is a cultural phenomenon, the likes of which we havn't seen in a long, long time.

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!

[PirateLover]

John said it best in his post.

Having read the last book, I am now more sure than ever that Harry Potter will live on for generations to come. It isn't just a "kid's" phenomenon. These are extremely well crafted works of fiction that created an entirely new world for people to escape into and whose fans span generations. If Universal puts some love and care into this area (and if Jo gets any say) than it could be a smash hit and I will definitely go there and take at least a day away from my WDW trip.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

Wait - so none of you guys still read Grimm's Fairy Tales or Peter Pan? Tom Sawyer? Huck Finn?

Cause you know, those are kids' books....and they aren't just a fad. But that's just my theory.

I'm 22, and I'm still in love with Harry Potter. And I still love Disney. Will I go to the opening for the Harry Potter land? Heck yes! In full, Slytherin gear to boot.

Do I think it will hurt WDW attendence? Not really. I agree with most of the statements in which people are being blinded by their overwhelming love for Disney....they can sit back and watch Universal open the Potter World and still be fine if they wanted. Because Disney isn't going to suffer.