Open for opinions?

[KAT1811]

Okay, I need to vent a little here. I have been a poster here for a little while now, posting fairly often and I post because I am looking for honest feedback. When I say honest I mean feedback that is based on other Intercoters thoughts, feelings, and opinions, even if those feelings are radically different from my own. I do not feel like people are "attacking" me if they feel that my opinions are ridiculous or completely wrong in their eyes. Even if I may totaly disagree with another poster I still respect the fact that they have a right to their opinion (last time I check it was still a Constitutional right). I cannot understand why some posters feel that free expression is malicious or rude. For example if you feel my excessive shopping, or whatever, is ridiculous, good for you. I however, do not yet I respect and can comprehend why you may think that is crazy. I am not overly offended by your opinions nor do I feel that you are being rude. Maybe I am super secure in who I am and do not take offense to others criticism of my opinions. The only time I get upset is when someone finds my, or another posters, free expression a personal attack on their persons. I love that we all have the right to live the way we choose, and to speak freely about it. Sometimes when I am answering a post I almost feel childlike when choosing my words (sometimes I do not even bother posting my thoghts) because I fear the backlash from some super sensitive poster. Thank you for letting me vent and I hope my venting didn't offend someone, not that I will be surprized if it did.

Sometimes when this happens I think about never posting again. Sad but true.

[tinkerbell04]

I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. There have been times that I didn't respond because I didn't want people to be upset with what I thought. Maybe it is good to have it out in the open for us to talk about

[MushuMulan]

I agree, there have been times in topics that I reply to, that got very heated where I'm actually anxious about seeing the response post.

Luckily, not everyone is like those people who make me nervous when I read replies . Most are decent folks whom I get a long with just fine.

[MsMin]

I'm sorry you felt that way but do understand your feelings and comments. I've had some very ugly and unnecessary responses that I have had to "consider the source". As you say they were more than just "their opinion" but degrading and offensive. I think intercot does a great job at filtering out the "trolls" we pick up every now and then. It's my understanding that ppl like that are eventually asked to stop or leave.
It's often difficult to express things clearly and not uncommon for someone to disagree or to misunderstand or be misunderstood. I know there are times I've just avoided returning to a particular post as well.
I'm opinionated but parenting is my profession so I try to be honest and supportive and I know it can be offensive and many can disagree but it's my training and I stick to it.
But as you mention, I've asked for plain info and received VERY RUDE feedback. Specifically when I inquired about watching a football game while we were in Disney last October.
Hope I never offended you!

[PirateLover]

I have to be honest here and say that recently I've noticed somewhat of an increase in both sensitivity and picking fights for what seems like no good reason other than the poster is bored or just has a penchant for proving people wrong. I myself have participated in the odd heated discussion here and there (The grammar/punctuation thread from a year or 2 back comes to mind... that is probably the only thread that has ever made me cry out of frustration) but I try not to because the reason I chose to post daily on this board was precisely a result of it's welcoming environment. It is also due to this reason that I treat some posts with kid gloves as well. I just want to keep up the friendly environment. It really bothers me though to see what sometimes seems like an increase in moderator warnings and closed threads from when I originally joined going on 5 years ago due to the direction the threads start heading in.

Oh and sometimes, when someone takes offense where it clearly isn't warranted, it's just better to take the high road, apologize, and move on from the thread. As much as you an I can enjoy a nice discussion back and forth, some people just can't handle being challenged Sometimes it's just better to not sweat the petty stuff (and don't pet the sweaty stuff)

[IloveJack]

Being a teacher, and dealing with emails all day every day, I've learned that it is often quite difficult to ascertain exactly what emotion is behind the type. Typed words can often come off as rude, even when the typist was being lighthearted. That being said, sometimes it is also quite easy to tell when someone is simply being rude.

I posted (earlier on) to the thread that I assume is the current reason for this discussion. I've only lurked there since. I refuse to be a part of it anymore, as it's no longer about the original topic.

I was once a part of the AOL Disney boards. I posted there for years, planning my first 3 trips. Then, I stayed around as I'd formed some "invisible" friends. However, this type stuff started, and got really bad. I'm talking my email box was bursting at the seems from all the trash-talking that wasn't on the boards, so that it could keep one or two people in the dark. The boards moved to the internet to lose a certain person, which required lots of emails to let everyone else know how to get there. Then, they moved again, and again. At first, I blamed the one certain poster, as she was definitely a troll. But after trolling for so long, she seemed like a part of the community. After following them for three moves, I was fed up. I gave up. The boards were no longer about Disney anyhow, and they'd now moved to a non-family-friendly forum. I wasn't going to follow. That was six years ago.

When I found I'cot, I was apprehensive about joining. I lurked for probably six months before signing in. I was afraid that there couldn't be a "community" that kept their petty squabbling to themselves, and just discussed Disney. Sheesh, they're discussing the happiest place on earth, for goodness sakes. But with I'cot, it seemed to be true. It was a safe place. The mods got rid of trolls as needed, and we went on. People were even posting for "prayers and pixie dust" and getting great responses. So I became ILoveJack, and here we are.

But I know that posts like the recent ones are the very way that the other boards died. I really hope that doesn't happen here. I truly enjoy catching up with everyone everyday. I've actually started enjoying The Water Cooler and Mousellaneous more than all the strictly Disney forums. I do think that I'cot Rocks! and hope that it stays as friendly as it has been in the past. I really hope we can all let bygones be bygones, forgive and forget, and move on.

[Ian]

First let me say something as an INTERCOT staff member and then I'll comment as just a normal ole member ...

As a staff member, I'll say this ... yeah ... we probably have more "trolls" than we did 5 years ago. But five years ago I think we had maybe 10,000 members. Tops.

Now we have what? Almost 30,000? With three times the members comes three times the trolls ... The staff does its best to keep things under control and as friendly as possible, but we also try not to completely stifle all debate and productive discourse. Having a site where nobody feels free to express an opinion is worse (IMO) than one where people argue every once in awhile.

Also one other point (in reference to your 1st Amendment comment) ... this is a privately owned and operated Disney vacation planning website. You have no 1st Amendment rights here at all. None. Period. The Constitution protects your rights from being infringed on by the Federal government. It has nothing to do with protecting your rights when it comes to dealing with private entities.

Now ... as just an ordinary ole poster, I'll say I agree with you 110%. Some people just can't stand to have anyone disagree with them or express an opinion other than the one to which they themselves subscribe.

That's a factor of today's society, I think. We seem to have arrived at a place in time where we feel we have an additional Constitution right that was never actually documented anywhere ... freedom from disagreement.

Today, if people don't like what you're saying, they just shout you down until you go away. They'll call you "negative" or "pollyana" or "fascist" or "communist" or some other label to marginalize you and make your opinions seem invalid.

The lack of honest, open, and free debate in this country today is kind of scary to me. People are afraid to open their mouths any more for fear of being labeled as some "ist" ... racist, fascist, communist ... whatever.

We need to get back to allowing real dialogue and conversation in this country. Otherwise we will never move away from the extreme partisanship we have today.

[KAT1811]

I guess I just get so disappointed when the arguing starts. Why is it that certain people feel that a poster is "putting them down" or they feel the need to, slap the hand (for lack of a better analogy) of another poster, warning them to be nice when they said nothing wrong? I like to hear everyone's opinions, even the ones I completely disagree with.

I had anoather poster PM me a while back thanking me for my support in a thread when she was being "attacked", she also said that her DH didn't want her posting her opinions anymore as a result. She was very respectfully posting her difference of opinion and someone took offense to it.

We all live different lives, some go to WDW on a budget and some go sparing no expense, some like to fine dine while others rather eat a burger and fries, some of us are raising our children, others have already raised theirs, some are trying and others have no desire to. None of that makes any of us bad people, or our opinions malicious and rude. I think those that attack posters for their opinions are far more malicious and rude then the OP ever thought of being. Maybe the posters that feel the need to chastize and attack other posters for their opinions are insecure? I don't know. You can say what you want about my opinions and my way of life and I couldn't care less but, do not attack my character, that I do care about.

[KAT1811]

Ian,

Thank you for the response.

I am also saddened by the inability of people to handle disagreement. I am not nor will ever be afraid to speak my mind. Yet on Intercot some times I fear my being outspoken (sticking up for myself when others attack) will make other posters uncomfortable and that I would never want to do. I guess there is no cure for ignorance, yet I wish there was. I may think a posters opion is outlandish but I still retain the ability to respect it even though I don't agree with it.

[Goofster]

Sad to say, this seems to go along with today's society. Any differing opinions, constructive criticisms, beliefs, or thoughts are interpreted by another as either an attack, intolerance, insensivity, or stupidity. Which is unfortunate.

[Goofster]

Today, if people don't like what you're saying, they just shout you down until you go away. They'll call you "negative" or "pollyana" or "fascist" or "communist" or some other label to marginalize you and make your opinions seem invalid.


We need to get back to allowing real dialogue and conversation in this country. Otherwise we will never move away from the extreme partisanship we have today.

Couldn't agree more.

[Ian]

Sad to say, this seems to go along with today's society. Any differing opinions, constructive criticisms, beliefs, or thoughts are interpreted by another as either an attack, intolerance, insensivity, or stupidity. Which is unfortunate.

What I find amazing is how many times people accuse others of being "intolerant" by expressing their opinions and use that as an excuse for shouting them down.

As if refusing to listen to someone else's opinion (regardless of whether you agree or disagree) isn't the very definition of being intolerant??

[KAT1811]

As if refusing to listen to someone else's opinion (regardless of whether you agree or disagree) isn't the very definition of being intolerant??

Very insightful and very well said. I wish more people would take the time to really digest that statement.

[Hammer]

I'm very aware of the thread which has prompted this, KAT1811. I'm about to post a warning for both sides to play nice.
My thoughts- People do not like to hear criticism. A couple of months back I posted a review of my stay at Wilderness Lodge where I posted both good and bad things about the resort. I also commented on Disney Deluxe resorts in general and how Disney could make changes to raise the level of service at their deluxe resorts to meet the expectations of deluxe resort guests accustomed to non-WDW deluxe hotels. Well, the way I was treated by some I thought I might be burned at the stake! Folks, it's my opinion based on my (and my sister's) experiences staying at deluxe resorts outside of WDW. We aren't saying you are wrong to stay there; just that there are flaws that need to be improved. Didn't stop people from telling me I was wrong for having that opinion.

Too many people think things are only black or white when the world is really just many shades of gray.

[mouseaddict]

I will start my response with this..this is my second post in 2 months. I actually stopped coming to Intercot for a while because every post seemed to have people saying terrible things. I come here to get info and share my experiences..but lately it has become very political. It makes me sad.
I admire the staff for working so hard to stay on top of the discussions and for weeding out the "trolls". Thanks guys!

[Ian]

I will start my response with this..this is my second post in 2 months. I actually stopped coming to Intercot for a while because every post seemed to have people saying terrible things. I come here to get info and share my experiences..but lately it has become very political.

I'm not sure what threads you were reading, but we don't allow political discussions on this site specifically because of the hurt feelings they result in.

If you see threads that veer off into politics, you should report them to the moderators immediately.

[Goofster]

My thoughts- People do not like to hear criticism. A couple of months back I posted a review of my stay at Wilderness Lodge where I posted both good and bad things about the resort. I also commented on Disney Deluxe resorts in general and how Disney could make changes to raise the level of service at their deluxe resorts to meet the expectations of deluxe resort guests accustomed to non-WDW deluxe hotels. Well, the way I was treated by some I thought I might be burned at the stake! Folks, it's my opinion based on my (and my sister's) experiences staying at deluxe resorts outside of WDW. We aren't saying you are wrong to stay there; just that there are flaws that need to be improved. Didn't stop people from telling me I was wrong for having that opinion.

SLIGHTLY OFF_TOPIC:

I remember that thread! I wouldn't say you were 'attacked' for making your opinion/review of WL, I think some people (myself included) sought more information underlying your overall critque and review (something about towels?). Asking for more information or the underlying rationale for an opinion isn't necessarily an 'attack', just asking for one to engage in further discussion on the issue.

BTW, I don't remember everything that took place in that thread, I just recall my response to your initial post. There may have been some highly charged posts though.

[mouseaddict]

Ian, I apologize..political was not a good choice of word. I guess it was the attacks on other people's views, the threads about poor parenting, fat people, horrible children etc. I know we see this at Disney, but we see it everywhere and I just choose not to let it bother me on my vacation...but others do and then come back to argue about it on the one friendly board around! Did that make better sense?

[PirateLover]

SLIGHTLY OFF_TOPIC:

BTW, I don't remember everything that took place in that thread, I just recall my response to your initial post. There may have been some highly charged posts though.

I remember it. There were definitely posts that were over the top, basically saying if you don't find service at any Disney resort to be top notch than you shouldn't go and you certainly don't have a right to complain

[Tigger&Stitch]

Opinions are great - everyone has one for sure. Don't remember them being specifically protected in the Constitution, but perhaps you meant the freedom of speech?

I think part of the trouble is that many people don't understand what an "opinion" is. Definition:

o·pin·ion
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

An opinion is inherently unsubstantiated by facts. You can certainly base an opinion on experiences etc., but in the end it is still an opinion, not a fact. In that way, opinions are similar to feelings - only you know what you are feeling or thinking based on your personal experience, background etc.

Another thing to keep in mind is that one should never assume to know what anyone else is thinking or feeling. Voicing your own opinion is fair, as it is yours. I've seen a few arguments here and there when members opine on the direction or intent of the Disney Company, top execs of Disney or even Walt himself. Often an issue when the poster states an opinion with such certainty it seems they believe it to be fact.

And sure, it ***** to have to pick your words when typing in a forum, especially for outspoken people who often do not censor themselves. However, forums do not have the benefit of voice inflection or facial expressions. One does have to be diplomatic when voicing an opinion as they can be closely tied to feelings. And if you happen to offend someone, sincerely apologise and be done with it. None of it is worth getting excited over - so many other things in the world to spend your energy on!