Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Vs Gringrots, who will have more people?

[DizneyFreak2002]

It's possible, but it's one coaster. Disney is making an Avatar and Star Wars land. No way is Universal taking the cake home!

Really? They are making a Star Wars land? Where? Has the construction started? Concept art revealed?

Sorry, no Star Wars land coming any time soon... And Avatar cannot even be closely compared to Potter... No, not even close... Potter is much more popular and blows Avatar away... Plus, we have no clue what will actually be in Pandora... We know Soarin 2.0 will be there, the boat ride may or may not have been cancelled... We'll probably get a shop and a restaurant...

And it is more than a coaster.. In fact, it is more dark ride than coaster... it is an entire land, a well themed and immersive land... with 2 e ticket attractions, two very well produced shows, and of course the obligatory shops and dining... Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade has style and substance...

Universal has been taking the cake home the last few years... And eating it too...

[DonaldDuck1117]

Disney has the market share and they will always have the market share. Why? Combination of nostalgia (my parents took me as a kid so I am going to take my kids) and their ability to tie in the studios characters. Last look at the numbers say Disney is holding around 70% of the market and Universal around 20%. Look at those numbers. The gap is still gigantic even after Disney basically sitting on their hands for a decade and Universal being ultra aggressive.

Universal knows they are never going to win the market share. Disney could literally do noyhing for another 10 years and they would still win the market in Orlando. That's not to say Universal is building poor attractions, quite the opposite. Universal is killing it with their new rides. Has Disney built anything on the level of Universal's past few attractions? It pains me to say I don't think so.

Can Disney respond? Andolutely. They have money to spend to match,and beat, Universal's attractions-if they choose to spend it. Avatar Land has to be a hit, and not just 1 ride, they own possibly the most popular franchise in the history of film (star wars) and they only have 1 ride representing it-build a Star Wars land (studios needs new life) and while you are tearing up Studios why not rip out the Backlot Tour and expand Pixar Place? Cars Land OR build rides from several Pixar films. Build the Doors ride from Monsters, create an Incredibles ride, replicate the Crush coaster from France, or bring the new Ratatouille ride.

Disney owns the market and always will, but Universal is creating amazing attractions. If Disney wants to they can respond. I'm a Disney fan, but I'm an amusement park fan in general-competition is good for the tourist, so I'm excited to experience Universal's new toys.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Disney has the market share and they will always have the market share. Why? Combination of nostalgia (my parents took me as a kid so I am going to take my kids) and their ability to tie in the studios characters. Last look at the numbers say Disney is holding around 70% of the market and Universal around 20%. Look at those numbers. The gap is still gigantic even after Disney basically sitting on their hands for a decade and Universal being ultra aggressive.

Got to remember a few things though... While what you said is right, and no one ever denies this not to be true, the fact is, Universal was also badly mismanaged for many years when Blackstone (I think that is their name) owned them... They really didn't care about the parks, and man, did it show.. Poor maintenance, poor customer service, lack of everything... And even though IOA is probably the best themed theme park, Blackstone just didn't care... Not until they wanted to sell.. Then BOOM, they give JKR the vault for Potter... WDW had what, a 20 year, 25 year jump on Universal? They had size (though that is more of a curse today than a blessing)... Universal is still playing catch up, no doubt... But the gap isn't as far apart as people want to think... Comcast is set to change the experience for many in Universal...

Universal knows they are never going to win the market share. Disney could literally do noyhing for another 10 years and they would still win the market in Orlando. That's not to say Universal is building poor attractions, quite the opposite. Universal is killing it with their new rides. Has Disney built anything on the level of Universal's past few attractions? It pains me to say I don't think so.

Again you are right... Universal/Comcast knows they won't top Magic Kingdom... They know they won't top the total attendance of WDW... They don't want to.. They don't need to... Where they are topping Disney is in generating income, taking away market share... They know (and anyone who thinks logically knows) they won't take full market share from WDW... They don't want to... They want to get more of the market share... The one theme park that will suffer the most though is Sea World...

Where Universal is winning, however, is the following: 1) pulling people from WDW only vacations... Yes, more and more people are now staying offsite than onsite, and this is affecting WDW hotel occupancy... 2) pulling people away from more days in WDW... And while no one will dare visit Orlando and not visit MK at least once, more days are in fact being lost from WDW theme parks than before... Disney wants you there every day... Not happening like that anymore... Orlando vacation demographics are changing... 3) income rations... Universal sales have increased dramatically... Not so in WDW... Listen to Rasulo or Iger during conference calls for earnings... Or read their SEC filings... They never state increased sales as a reason for increased earnings... They always attribute the increase in earnings due to the price increases... Yes, that's telling... I.E. more people spending more of their vacation budget at Universal than spending the entire budget in WDW...

This is Universal's goal, not over taking WDW in attendance... Though, they are right at the heels of DHS and DAK... it can be a real possibility Uni and or IOA over take DHS in 2014 or 2015 (though some industry insiders say IOA has already over taken DHS)...

Can Disney respond? Andolutely. They have money to spend to match,and beat, Universal's attractions-if they choose to spend it. Avatar Land has to be a hit, and not just 1 ride, they own possibly the most popular franchise in the history of film (star wars) and they only have 1 ride representing it-build a Star Wars land (studios needs new life) and while you are tearing up Studios why not rip out the Backlot Tour and expand Pixar Place? Cars Land OR build rides from several Pixar films. Build the Doors ride from Monsters, create an Incredibles ride, replicate the Crush coaster from France, or bring the new Ratatouille ride.

They have had plans since, I think, 2008/2009 for Pixar Place expansion... Why haven't they done anything yet? Scared? No gumption? Cheap? Lax? Resting on laurels? Maybe a combo of all of the above... Management in Orlado just does not want to invest in anything that the public may enjoy... They want to cut (and they have been cutting for years now), they want to take away, they want to jack prices... The only thigns TDO has the stomach to approve are quick money grabs.. Like the DTD make over, like more and more DVC... Attractions? The pencil pusher MBAs see no return on investments in their formulas, so TDO says no... But Carsland, Hogsmeade, and soon Diagon Alley prove them wrong... Invest wisely and the money will flow.. $2 billion on rubber wrist bands and FP+ won't get the job done... Even Rasulo has admitted it will be years before they ever see a return on that investment... Hence the sudden play for more and more paid hard ticket events...

Disney owns the market and always will, but Universal is creating amazing attractions. If Disney wants to they can respond. I'm a Disney fan, but I'm an amusement park fan in general-competition is good for the tourist, so I'm excited to experience Universal's new toys.

You have one of the most thought out, well written and factual, no nonsense posts I have read on this silly WDW vs Uni topic... I applaud you for your wisdom!!! Bravo!!!

[joanna71985]

I'm a huge fan of HP part one (went to the grand opening), and am looking forward to part two. I think Gringotts is going to be amazing. For me, Mine Train is...eh

[BrerGnat]

I'll just say this. I have a WDW trip on the horozon, but it's for Marathon Weekend in January. Sure, we will visit the parks while there but I'm not really super excited to be going back. On the other hand, I am dying to visit Universal to see all this HP stuff. Last time I went to Universal was in 2003. I was ho hum about it, obviously, since I have not gone back since. The first phase of HP was not enough, still, to make me go back again. However, with the new additions, THAT was enough and now I am planning a long weekend visit sometime in the next year. And I can't wait.
Mine Train? Eh. Looks cute and all but it has not convinced me to plan a trip to WDW to see it.

[Arielfan98]

Really? They are making a Star Wars land? Where? Has the construction started? Concept art revealed?

Sorry, no Star Wars land coming any time soon... And Avatar cannot even be closely compared to Potter... No, not even close... Potter is much more popular and blows Avatar away... Plus, we have no clue what will actually be in Pandora... We know Soarin 2.0 will be there, the boat ride may or may not have been cancelled... We'll probably get a shop and a restaurant...

And it is more than a coaster.. In fact, it is more dark ride than coaster... it is an entire land, a well themed and immersive land... with 2 e ticket attractions, two very well produced shows, and of course the obligatory shops and dining... Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade has style and substance...

Universal has been taking the cake home the last few years... And eating it too...

With all due respect I think that is a matter of opinion. My grandmother cannot ride any of the coasters in Potter World, but she can ride Soarin' and the new boat ride. I do think HP is cool, but it is a matter of opinion.

[BrerGnat]

Actually, the Gringotts ride isn't even a coaster. It is reportedly less intense than FJ.

[princessgirls]

As much as I enjoy all of the Traditional things at Disney, I come back also for new attractions...

Six Flags keeps things fresh with new rides every couple of years.

As Nancy said, It is the Nature of the Beast.
I hear that Universal did an amazing job with all aspects of Harry Potter from Disney "snobs" who own DVC's and are spending a few nights over at the Universal resorts to take in Harry Potter...Exactly what other posters have said...Less Days on Disney Property, in the parks, and spending their vacation dollars other than in WDW.

Julie

[TheVBs]

I'm probably not qualified to jump in here, we've never been to Universal. We have been wanting to see HP land, but so far, have not wanted it enough to take away from any Disney days, or plan a separate trip for it.

It seems to me that both rides will have a big draw, but for different reasons. Lots of people will go on the new HP ride because they want to check out the whole addition at Universal. Lots of people will go on the new Mine ride, because lots and lots of people love to go, and go back to, Disney. These discussions always seem apples to oranges to me, but again, not having visited Universal, I don't know.

[DonaldDuckUSA]

Avartar-land? I'm so unimpressed. Honestly. Its no longer relevant.

I hope priority goes to Star Wars land. At least that's a proven franchise. Plus, Hollywood Studios has close to nothing relevant to offer. If it weren't for ToT, Rockin' Rollercoaster and Prime Time, hubby and I wouldn't go. Disney would be foolish to not take a page out of Universal's book and totally Harry Potter-land Hollywood Studios.

[BrerGnat]

Avartar-land? I'm so unimpressed. Honestly. Its no longer relevant.

I hope priority goes to Star Wars land. At least that's a proven franchise. Plus, Hollywood Studios has close to nothing relevant to offer. If it weren't for ToT, Rockin' Rollercoaster and Prime Time, hubby and I wouldn't go. Disney would be foolish to not take a page out of Universal's book and totally Harry Potter-land Hollywood Studios.

I 100% agree with everything you said.

[texas211]

Really? They are making a Star Wars land? Where? Has the construction started? Concept art revealed?

Sorry, no Star Wars land coming any time soon... And Avatar cannot even be closely compared to Potter... No, not even close... Potter is much more popular and blows Avatar away... Plus, we have no clue what will actually be in Pandora... We know Soarin 2.0 will be there, the boat ride may or may not have been cancelled... We'll probably get a shop and a restaurant...

And it is more than a coaster.. In fact, it is more dark ride than coaster... it is an entire land, a well themed and immersive land... with 2 e ticket attractions, two very well produced shows, and of course the obligatory shops and dining... Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade has style and substance...

Universal has been taking the cake home the last few years... And eating it too...

Totally agree. Hands down, Diagon Alley will be insane compared to anything Disney an throw out. Avatar land... yeah, like Apollo vs Drago... Not even a comparison.

Star Wars land, I hope, but who knows. They should build a Cars Land too. That is the only thing DL has that is totally awesome. In fact, that would be way cooler than Avatar land.. Course, IMHO, AK needs a lot of something to be worthwhile.

[DonaldDuck1117]

Avatar will be relevant when they release the three(?) sequels.

[Mfarquar]

Avatar will be relevant when they release the three(?) sequels.

Unfortunately, we have quite the wait - 2016, 2017 and 2018. That is, of course, if James Cameron can stay on time with #2 (good luck with that). So, I'm not exactly holding my breath for a follow-up to a movie that was nothing more than a Pocahontas/Fern Gully mash-up to me.

Wish Disney would start moving on Star Wars. I'm not even much of a Star Wars fan (same goes for Harry Potter), but like Potter (and maybe even more so), it has INSANE potential.

We were going to Disney at least 1 time per year for 10 - 11 night trips. We used to go to Universal just 1 - 2 days out of our vacation while staying on-site at Disney. Since Disney has slowed down with development, we've ended up scaling back our time at Disney. We miss the days where there was 1 E-ticket attraction opening per year. So, Universal has won us over and we have visited every single year since 2005 (and shifted to stay on-site in 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013 and upcoming 2014 - we normally would have stayed at Disney).

Now, our vacations are FAR more relaxed at the deluxe Universal resorts (which, I am happy to report, I just booked with a code for $170 a night). There's something about well-appointed rooms, getting restaurant reservations without blinking an eye, and going to a pool where they hand out chilled towels and cold, fruit infused water before heading out to the parks and using my on-site guest status to go to the front of the lines. We come back from vacation refreshed and relaxed (despite experiencing some fantastic, cutting-edge rides and staying out very late at their Halloween event that CHANGES every year).

We spent 5 days and 6 nights at Universal on-site last year and did a day trip to Hollywood Studios, mainly for the Tower of Terror, Rockin' Rollercoaster and Toy Story.

I love Disney beyond belief, but I think they are taking their loyal customers for granted with few updates, empty attraction buildings and increased hotel costs. It breaks my heart that Disney has done little as of late to evidence that they are the foremost authority on producing the most mind-blowing, technical, cutting-edge rides.

The result? This loyal Disney fan is speaking with her pocketbook spending time and money at Universal. We'll be back to Disney for a prolonged period when there are improvements instead of cuts.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Totally agree. Hands down, Diagon Alley will be insane compared to anything Disney an throw out. Avatar land... yeah, like Apollo vs Drago... Not even a comparison.

Star Wars land, I hope, but who knows. They should build a Cars Land too. That is the only thing DL has that is totally awesome. In fact, that would be way cooler than Avatar land.. Course, IMHO, AK needs a lot of something to be worthwhile.

Did you see the line of people waiting for Diagon Alley soft openings (which aren't happening yet)? They totaled in the 1000's.. AND THAT IS JUST FOR RUMORED SOFT OPENINGS... Yes, this is going to be huge...

Were there 1000's of people standing in front of 7D waiting for softs? Nah... Will there be 1000's of people waiting for Avatarland in 2017, 18, 19, 20??? nah...

Will there be 1000s of people standing around waiting for Star Wars soft openings in 2020, oh more than likely yes...

Potter is a beast... Star Wars is a beast... Avatar? Not so much, more like a blue alien kittie cat...

[kbean]

Blue alien kitty cats.... you nailed that one. Now i never wanna see avatar!

[Mfarquar]

Potter is a beast... Star Wars is a beast... Avatar? Not so much, more like a blue alien kittie cat...

HAHAHAHAA well said! This is a perfectly humorous yet accurate analogy.

[DonaldDuck1117]

You guys can keep saying "if" on the Avatar sequels all you want-as if by repeating it over and over will make it true-but they are being made. Disney has to do a good job with that land. It has to be an answer to Universal. Doesn't have to be *the* answer, but an answer none the less. It can't just be one ride and a restaurant and shops. It has to be more. That secondary boat ride has to happen. Also, take a cue from Universal (the horror!) and come up with creative new food choices.

Disney has to flex some creative muscle-and do it in a timely fashion. Universal cranks out attractions and lands in a timely fashion. Disney takes 5 years to open New Fantasyland. I think that's the most frustrating thing in my opinion. Disney announces a ride then takes 2 years to open it. Meanwhile Universal creates Transformers in what? 10 months?

[joonyer]

I watched "The Making of Diagon Alley" TV special on NBC last night. Although the full details of the "Escape from Gringott's" ride were not fully revealed, the amount of detail and immersive theming they put into this area appears to be incredible and sets a new standard for state of the art theme park "lands". I can't wait to experience it first hand in December.

[DonaldDuck1117]

My hope is that the Potterlands actually wake Disney up a bit and we can get a "theme park war" going between Disney and Universal with each trying to out do the other. That would be great for the tourist. Kind of like the "coaster wars" of the 90s and early 00s where every year parks where building bigger and faster coasters.

Ah, one can dream.