Rumor - Space Mt Rehab....on the cheap?

[JabberJaws]

This is similar to the post below, but I didn't want to hijack that thread.

Screamscape is now reporting that, not only has the line about onboard audio been removed from the website, they are now hearing that Disney has not only scrapped the onboard audio out of the budget, but has also trimmed down the remainder of the changes/upgrades to bare minimum, in order to keep costs down and to get it back up and running before the busy Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season.

If all they are going to do is replace the track, then honestly what is the point? I can say that I am not happy about this. I understand that times are tight, even for WDW, but come on enough with the budget cutting.

Just think of the amazing things that WDI could produce if they weren't hampered by penny pinchers! Oh wait...you don't have to think about that, you can just go to Tokyo Disney Sea and see what they can come up with with a much larger pocketbook.

Oh well, hopefully this rumor will prove to be untrue, but I am not keeping my hopes up.

[RBrooksC]

My guess is they are upgrading their computer control. I spoke to somebody down there years ago when SM was offline do to computer issues.

Since I work in the computer field I asked why they just didn't reboot Windows. The girl I was talking to laughed and said they were using the original, albeit upgraded, mainframe to run the ride.

I was taken aback and asked why in the hell they were using a old 70s mainframe when today's computers could most likely do a better job at running the ride.

She said that it would have to take the ride down for about a year to remove and replace all the track to upgrade the computer system.

Computer systems are not cheap and there is a possibility that there are budget overruns in that regard so before one says they are "doing this on the cheap", one needs to consider what exactly the costs are and what the main goal may be.

[JPL]

We are in fact getting the light version of the original refurb plans according to sources. Originally they were going add audio and then found out it would require replacing the existing track completely and now have changed the plans to only include some track replacement and lighting effect upgrades.

[RBrooksC]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

[Dsnygirl]

To be honest with you, I'll take whatever upgrades they can give me. We were there in both December and January, and both times, SM spent an inordinate amount of time "down", sometimes going down twice in the same day. We were moved out of line about half the times we waited, and the other times we ended up standing up by the loading area while the lights went on and they worked on the ride for 15-20 minutes.

Not that I would want to ride if they felt it was unsafe in any way, and I'm glad they took the time to work on it, but for a ride to go down that many times in the 12 days we were there, it definitely needed to be closed and upgraded, even on a "light" scale. If that is all they can do for now, I'll take it!

[ayeckley]

I'm confused - why is there any relationship between the physical track (steel) and the control and audio systems? I don't see any technical reason why they'd have to replace track in order to upgrade to a modern PLC system. Sure, they'd have to install new I/O devices, but that's not the same as track.

The only connection I can see is financial. If they had to replace more track than originally budgeted due to wear or fatigue issues discovered during inspection, then that would certainly eat into the budgets for the control system/audio upgrades. Is there more to it than that?

[Zone Stop]

As for the relationship between Track and Onboard Sound... how do you think show audio gets triggered?

[drummerboy]

I remember several years ago when DW and I did the behind the scenes tour in MK, we were surprised at how many attractions still were run off the mainframe computer.

[scoot241]

As for the relationship between Track and Onboard Sound... how do you think show audio gets triggered?

Onboard speakers also add weight to the cars.

[JabberJaws]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Budgets be damned. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

Well I am a disney share holder and a business professional with a master degree in business so I am aware of "real costs" and "budgeted amounts" and I know the reason behind what disney is doing.

I am fully aware of Disney's current financial situation. I am aware of the logistics of the improvements as well.

Last I checked though, this was a web community for Disney enthusiasts so you can take my above post as that of a Disney enthusiast who has ridden both DLs and WDWs space mountain and sees the latent potential there if they did the originally planned improvements.

Perhaps I should add the following disclaimer so my business knowledge and "real-world" experience is not taken into question:

**Disclaimer: What I am about to post is posted as a mickey-ear wearing Disney enthusiast and park goer, and may contain wishes, hopes, dreams and other lighthearted whimsical desires. The aforementioned items are opinion only and the poster is not responsible for the "real-world"-ness of said opinions contained herein**

Now, having said that.

Disney could use a nice injection of life into several attractions, and don't get me wrong, SM is one of, if not my favorite attraction at WDW, but it could use a bit of an upgrade. And I think if Disney trimmed costs and cuts it all out save a few new darklights and some new paint, I think they are missing an opportunity here.

I went on the DL version of SM for the first time just two years ago and was blown away. I don't think that any of the changes took away from the original spirit of the ride at all.

And again, don't get me wrong. I am a huge fan of WDWs SM. I love the jerkiness, the bobsled style cars, the overall feeling of unsafe (same reason why I like wooden coasters), but it needs some changes. Particularly in the lift hill area, the post show area and the loading area.

There have been discrepencies between the DL and WDW parks before when rides are transferred. For example, Splash Mt. at DL seemed like a "watered down" (no pun intended) version of the one at MK. Not sure if that was for budget reasons or not, but I was a bit disappointed.

My point is not that I don't understand why Disney is cutting the budget, but point is that I feel like they are missing an opportunity and am saddened by that because I was originally so excited when I heard it was going down for the major overhaul.

I will still ride SM and love every second of it, however.

[GothMickey]

Yes, you are getting the bare bones minimum refurb for Space Mountain. JPL is right when he says there were plans but it was cut. The onboard audio systems weigh the cars down, so not only the track, but the supports have to be stabilized to handle the extra weight. Think about this. The ride has been open for what 35 years? The support beams have never been replaced. You are talking about 35 year old supports having to continue to take abuse from running an attraction say 12 hours a day, more sometimes, having X amount of pounds forced on it daily. Takes it toll on the supports. But, they aren't being replaced. I also have heard, however, that work will be done to reinforce the support beams, not replace them, possibly for allowing onboard audio in the future.

Think of this refurb on the same level as SSE. The descent in SSE is still not complete, and has now been put off for a while as other projects will soon get on their way. Space Mountain will the the same way. A lot of the effects were already installed while the ride was open. The bulk of the work will be done now. And more will be done during 3rd shift. But it will be cosmetic. I still hold out hope for audio in the future.

[GothMickey]

I'm confused - why is there any relationship between the physical track (steel) and the control and audio systems? I don't see any technical reason why they'd have to replace track in order to upgrade to a modern PLC system. Sure, they'd have to install new I/O devices, but that's not the same as track.

The only connection I can see is financial. If they had to replace more track than originally budgeted due to wear or fatigue issues discovered during inspection, then that would certainly eat into the budgets for the control system/audio upgrades. Is there more to it than that?

The track has to be smooth, unlike the current track. If the track is rough and bumpy like now, the onboard audio will he kicking out left and right, causing one heck of a nightmare for the CMs and technicians.

[GothMickey]

To be honest with you, I'll take whatever upgrades they can give me.

Well, you have no choice but to take it, whether you like it or not. And truth be told, Space Mountain was is such desparate need of a refurb, that, even a bare bones refurb will be an improvement.

[GothMickey]

Enjoy the ride for what it is. To be honest, if you didn't have it initially, then you won't miss it.

I love how people start to complain when budgets get in the way. Budgets be damned. Let's just put all our money into this one ride.

Anybody who has worked in the real world know there is "what we want" and "what we can afford." Which goes hand-in-hand with budgeted amounts and real costs. When the real costs go beyond what can be afforded things need to be cut.

That does not mean things are being done "on the cheap." It just means that the company is is being responsible to their shareholders.

The comoany should also be responsible to their guests and give them NEW and EXCITING rides. The truth is, Space Mountain is being done on the cheap. This has nothing to do with the management team in Orlando being smart with the money. The ride was budgeted to have one heck of a refurb, down for over a year, and when reopen, it would be better than Space Mountain in DL, which is the standard bearer now. However, Phil Holmes, whether people want to hear it or not, does not want the ride to be down for the holidays, no matter what the guests could have gotten in NEW and EXCITING entertainment.

[JabberJaws]

However, Phil Holmes, whether people want to hear it or not, does not want the ride to be down for the holidays, no matter what the guests could have gotten in NEW and EXCITING entertainment.

This is pretty much inline with what I had heard as well. I had heard that it wasn't just budgetary reasons for trimming down the update, it was the fact that it would have to be closed during the holidays. I heard this a long time ago when news first broke about SM getting a long rehab, that there was discussion about trimming down the severity of the rehab in order to get it open in time for Thanksgiving/Christmas.

As I said before, this isn't the first time that rehabs, upgrades or even new attractions have been rushed to operation at the cost the overall quality of the ride, or opening them before enough tests have been done or the effects/elements have been finalized.

I think this philosophy of open first, fix later has hurt even whole parks, including DHS, the Hong Kong park and even non-Disney parks (the park formerly known as Hard Rock Park comes to mind..though that wasn't its only issue).

I would love for WDW to have taken the proactive approach, bitten the bullet (come on, Disney has the money), and just done it all at once, but oh well...que sera sera.

[GothMickey]

We have to remember, Disney is like any other company, internal politics helps make decisions. Haunted Mansion also had the budget cut for the refurb. However, the person in control of the refurb, name escapes me, not Phil Holmes, won out. WDI was able to do amazing things with the budget they received because they were allowed to have the ride down for a long period of time. Then, we get refurbs like Pirates: bare bones, rushed, or like SSE, not even complete 2 years later.

There is a new manager in charge if the Adventureland/LS area. And from what I have heard, this manager has fought for, and pretty much was given the green light, for a nice refurb of Jungle Cruise. This manager is from DL, and is bringing the way they do things over there to WDW. This is the jolt and kick WDW management needs.

Please don't get me wrong here. I think the Space Mountain refurb, despite being cut and on the cheap, will be just fine. Especially if they continue to plus it during the few months after it reopens.

[JabberJaws]

Please don't get me wrong here. I think the Space Mountain refurb, despite being cut and on the cheap, will be just fine. Especially if they continue to plus it during the few months after it reopens.

I agree that a dusting off, fresh coat of paint, new track, etc. will do wonders by itself. One of the first things I noticed about DL's SM (aside from the really cool warp tunnel effect going up the lift hill) was 1.) how pitch black completely dark it was the second you exited the lift hill, and 2.) how smooth the track was. You almost felt as if you were floating.

Hopefully that will replace the track, but unfortunately the track isn't the only culprit when it comes to a smooth ride.

Does anyone know if they are going to be getting new coaster cars as well, or was the cut out of the budget too.

[Ian]

There's two possibilities here ...

A. the refurb has been cut both for budgetary and availability reasons and, once re-opened with whatever minimal safety/ride updates there are, will remain unchanged for the forseeable future.

or

B. the approach will be more like what was/is done with SE. They'll do what they can in the period of downtime that Ops is willing to tolerate, re-open the ride, and then piecemeal it after that until it's ultimately completed.

I mean I'm all in favor of revamping Space Mountain, but I can't say I don't understand why Ops would be hesitant to have one of their signature rides down over the busiest time of the year.

I mean there's fantasy and then there's reality and the reality is that you're going to anger a lot more paying guests if Space Mountain is shut down during Christmas than you are if you cut back on a refurb that 99% of them knew nothing about anyway.

Very few WDW theme park guests are fanboys/fangirls like us.

[JRocker]

I mean there's fantasy and then there's reality and the reality is that you're going to anger a lot more paying guests if Space Mountain is shut down during Christmas than you are if you cut back on a refurb that 99% of them knew nothing about anyway.

zactly

And there are even a few of us fanboys out here that aren't too concerned about it.

[cgriff]

Just a rumor. Who knows.