Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Vs Gringrots, who will have more people?

[Jimmy Thick]

Now, I just love me some Disney vs Universal debates, especially when Universal comes out on the short end of the stick. But this is indeed a serious question.

Which new attraction will have more riders at any given time, the new Seven Dwarfs ride or the much ballyhooed Gringrots coaster at Universal?

Both are coasters.

One is geared towards the family, Dwarfs, one for teens on up, Gringrots.

The endless Potter hype machine is running at a fever pitch and while the whole Potter section is if you get down to brass is nothing more than one new attraction and a couple repackaged, older rides that stunk in the first place, anything can possibly help, but the place is extremely tiny, you can literally jog a 2 minute after dinner fart and get through the whole thing, but Universal has a dubious master plan at work here...

Universal is forcing people to buy park to park tickets now to experience all of Potter. It seems like a desperate money grab that the Universal loyal fail to mention.

Try this one on for size, what if Disney made the New Fantasyland section a new ticketed area that required the price of a full park admission to experience the new attractions they just built? That's exactly what Universal is doing with the new Potter area. Color me not impressed but more perturbed at Comcast doing such a thing. Comcast has always stated they want more of Disney's pie, charging people double for the complete Potter is pretty low.

Seven Dwarfs, on the other hand, is located in the jewel of Florida called the Magic Kingdom. I have rode it, its good, its not great, but its good.

Universal will have the more gaudy attraction, but Disney will have the people simply because based on the TEA attendance figures from last year, Magic Kingdom still outdraws IOA by over 2 to 1. More like 2.5 to 1. For Universal, and the Universal fanboi's who really thought IOA was going to outdraw a Disney park last year, yes thoughts of endless fail like that keep me warm at night in bed, you could make a simple mathematical equation that its virtually impossible for Gringrots to be a success compared to Seven dwarfs.

You read it here first, Seven Dwarfs will have more people riding it that Gringrots, its impossible based on the facts to think otherwise, and thinking that, could Potter, even as its popularity is starting to stumble, be considered a possible flop with no long term stability?

In laymans terms, the theme park wars never started, Disney never had a threat.

Jimmy Thick- 8 million at IOA? ROTFL!!! Some clown owes the Make a Wish Foundation 100 dollars!!!

[MW1218]

Well, if you get down to Brass, New Fantasyland is one ride (geared more towards kids), a repurposed attraction from California, a quick service restaurant and a table service restaurant (quick service during the day.)

If you're going to reduce everything that Universal has done to its base, you should do the same for new Fantasyland.

[BrerGnat]

Well, what are you really asking here: which RIDE will have more riders? -OR- which park will have more visitors?

Obviously MK will have the most visitors. It always does.

But when it comes to the rides, I believe Gringotts will have a higher hourly rider capacity vs. SDMT. There is also the Hogwarts Express which is a ride, and will likely have a fairly high hourly capacity as well. I think without a doubt, Gringotts will host more RIDERS than SDMT, when compared across similar parameters (park operating hours being the same, etc.) There is also the problem that SDMT has to go offline during rain or lightning in the area. Gringotts won't have that restriction.

I love Disney. I generally don't care for Universal, but I think the debut of the new HP land and attractions will be MUCH more successful than new Fantasy land. FWIW, the Gringotts ride has a pretty low height requirement. I want to say 40". So, technically, it will be available to a similar demographic as SDMT.

[joonyer]

. . . . Universal is forcing people to buy park to park tickets now to experience all of Potter. It seems like a desperate money grab that the Universal loyal fail to mention.

Try this one on for size, what if Disney made the New Fantasyland section a new ticketed area that required the price of a full park admission to experience the new attractions they just built? That's exactly what Universal is doing with the new Potter area. Color me not impressed but more perturbed at Comcast doing such a thing. Comcast has always stated they want more of Disney's pie, charging people double for the complete Potter is pretty low.

[/I]

Low? Not if the demand is there. it's just good business, even genius on Universal's part. Creating a product that people will pay extra for is the essence of smart business. They are not harming anyone. Nothing unethical about it. If one doesn't think buying a park-to-park pass is worth riding the Hogwarts's Express, then they can choose to not pay for it. And by the way, Disney doesn't let guests park hop for free, either.

And the Potter deal at USO/IOA and the new Fantasyland are not exactly comparable. With the park-to-park pass Universal is requiring to ride the Hogwarts Express, you not only get access to all the Potter themed areas/rides in both parks, you get access to everything, in all lands, in both parks. You may not be able to do everything in both parks in one day, but you get a lot more than just the Potter stuff.

It would be more comparable if Disney were to create a themed Park-to-Park attraction say, between MK and Epcot or between Epcot and DHS (close together), and then made you use a park hopper pass (or other premium ticket) to ride between parks. I have to give Universal credit; spreading a single theme across two parks (helps that they are adjacent to each other) was a brilliant marketing strategy.

That being said, you may be right about 7DMT being the more popular attraction, if for no other reason that MK is the most heavily attended theme park in the world. But on the other hand, I can't imagine either 7DMT or the new Gringott's ride (or Forbidden Journey for that matter) operating at anything less than full capacity whenever they are open, at least for the next few years, anyway. There won't be any "walk-on" queues at either attraction.

The real question to be answered is: How many "new" guests will these attractions bring into the parks? They don't want just repeating regulars, both companies want new market share. Just because Disney is already "king-of the hill" doesn't mean they don't care about growth of their market share, or losing any part of their share to the competition.

[thejens]

Not taking sides, I love WDW and only recently tried Universal and surprisingly loved it too...but my 10 year old is DYING to go to the new Harry Potter ride and doesn't really care about the WDW attractions this year. I expected this from 16 year old, but not 10 year old.

I think I am the only one interested in 7 dwarves this year, so might hit Universal for a weekend and skip WDW this year.

[Jimmy Thick]

Well, if you get down to Brass, New Fantasyland is one ride (geared more towards kids), a repurposed attraction from California, a quick service restaurant and a table service restaurant (quick service during the day.)

If you're going to reduce everything that Universal has done to its base, you should do the same for new Fantasyland.

Almost everything in MK is repurposed from California.

But only at Universal Orlando has a new land, The Wizardly World of Potter whatever, has been promoted as a brand new area, but for those of us who we before the Potter turmoil, we knew that 2 of the "new" rides were just repackaged rides that were stinkers to begin with. I believe Universal tried to pull a fast one by fooling the public those rides were new when they were just repackaged. That's value engineering at its best. People like to talk about how Universal spent so little money building the Potter expansion, but the dirty is they just repackaged.


Jimmy Thick- And not even a good repackage, they should have called Madonna...

[Jimmy Thick]

Well, what are you really asking here: which RIDE will have more riders? -OR- which park will have more visitors?

Obviously MK will have the most visitors. It always does.

But when it comes to the rides, I believe Gringotts will have a higher hourly rider capacity vs. SDMT. There is also the Hogwarts Express which is a ride, and will likely have a fairly high hourly capacity as well. I think without a doubt, Gringotts will host more RIDERS than SDMT, when compared across similar parameters (park operating hours being the same, etc.) There is also the problem that SDMT has to go offline during rain or lightning in the area. Gringotts won't have that restriction.

I love Disney. I generally don't care for Universal, but I think the debut of the new HP land and attractions will be MUCH more successful than new Fantasy land. FWIW, the Gringotts ride has a pretty low height requirement. I want to say 40". So, technically, it will be available to a similar demographic as SDMT.

Ride capacity is nothing.

How many times have you gone to an attraction and every single seat has been filled?

Rare.

The best judge will be overall park attendance. Gringots will not stand a chance.

Simple little point of note...

Why do Disney rides need more maintenance? Simple, more people experience them than at Universal.

Jimmy Thick- LeFous Brew for me please...

[Jimmy Thick]

Yeah, I'm sure you do.
Every time a fan thread about "Will Avatar/New FL be Disney's Potter-Swatter?"--depicting the Disney boardroom as some green-eyed Jeffrey Katzenberg, plotting away at nights for how to undercut their rival, instead of vice versa--some of us always like to bring up what's called "the Tiger Beat Syndrome".
You know, that fan magazine that constantly told junior-high fangirls about the feud that Justin Bieber was having this week with 1D?

It's one of the quirks we grow out of, that young fans tend to want to celebrate their loyalty by imagining the two biggest things battling it out for supremacy, like plastic dinosaurs.
Kirk vs. Picard...Original Trilogy vs. Prequels...Butterbeer vs. LeFou's Brew.
Disney doesn't care about "park rivalries", they know they've already gotten Universal whipped about the town for hotel-resort experience, and that will bring guests coming back. And they also know their properties have longer-term value with families, rather than building up a lot of high-profile Harry Potter and Simpsons, and letting Jurassic Park collect dust.

Now, Sea World Orlando, OTOH, they're the ones sitting in the darkened room petting their white Persian cat, and clicking their ball bearings in one hand...

Personally, I can't wait for Avatar myself, its looks dashing from all the "leaked" blueprints I have seen. I especially like the blueprint where they clearly label a "bathroom" and wonder to myself, in my alone time, if I will be able to enjoy a sweeping moment, think the dramatic pan from the Sound of Music, where I will be able to do natures business amongst the blue skinned people from Avatar. I count the seconds, I really do...

Tigerbeat? Not sure I have ever consumed that periodical, I was more interested in anything featuring Diane Lane from the Outsiders back during my teen rag days. I also remember Leif Garret being my rival, but that's a little too personal...

Kirk, no contest. Shatner is like 80 and he looks like hes in his 70's, I hope he bottles what hes using.

Any Star Wars is good Star Wars, I don't do the whole fair-weather fan thing when it comes to such timeless cinema.

LeFous Brew for me. Butterbeer is much to sweet, drinking one would require a dentist visit for me, those people conned me out of 7 grand last year for a pulled tooth and a fake put in. Seven GRAND!!!

SeaWorld has never been the same since Blackfish, that movie wrecked them in my opinion. I haven't been there in years, my daughter is an animal person, so I guess that makes me an animal person by default.

Sorry for being lazy and not quoting you correctly, I'm a little on the tired side and I have some gaming to do...

Jimmy Thick- Pesky internet rumors...A former...WAIT WHAT!!!

[Jimmy Thick]

Low? Not if the demand is there. it's just good business, even genius on Universal's part. Creating a product that people will pay extra for is the essence of smart business. They are not harming anyone. Nothing unethical about it. If one doesn't think buying a park-to-park pass is worth riding the Hogwarts's Express, then they can choose to not pay for it. And by the way, Disney doesn't let guests park hop for free, either.

And the Potter deal at USO/IOA and the new Fantasyland are not exactly comparable. With the park-to-park pass Universal is requiring to ride the Hogwarts Express, you not only get access to all the Potter themed areas/rides in both parks, you get access to everything, in all lands, in both parks. You may not be able to do everything in both parks in one day, but you get a lot more than just the Potter stuff.

It would be more comparable if Disney were to create a themed Park-to-Park attraction say, between MK and Epcot or between Epcot and DHS (close together), and then made you use a park hopper pass (or other premium ticket) to ride between parks. I have to give Universal credit; spreading a single theme across two parks (helps that they are adjacent to each other) was a brilliant marketing strategy.

That being said, you may be right about 7DMT being the more popular attraction, if for no other reason that MK is the most heavily attended theme park in the world. But on the other hand, I can't imagine either 7DMT or the new Gringott's ride (or Forbidden Journey for that matter) operating at anything less than full capacity whenever they are open, at least for the next few years, anyway. There won't be any "walk-on" queues at either attraction.

The real question to be answered is: How many "new" guests will these attractions bring into the parks? They don't want just repeating regulars, both companies want new market share. Just because Disney is already "king-of the hill" doesn't mean they don't care about growth of their market share, or losing any part of their share to the competition.

We will get this tomorrow, this is good stuff to debate, but I'm tired, forgive me...

Jimmy Thick- Sleepy time, even for a titan such as myself...

[Goes4FastPass]

Garsh, why ask a discussion board of WDW fanatics if a non-WDW park should even exist?

I am glad there is competition. Is possible the Fantasy Land expansion would never have happened without Harry Potter at Universal Florida?

Members here moan about wristbands and booking 180 gays in advance being told how many premium experiences they can have per day or how a third child puts them in a whole new lodging category but many would never go near Universal Orlando no matter what they offered.

[BrerGnat]

Which new attraction will have more riders at any given time, the new Seven Dwarfs ride or the much ballyhooed Gringrots coaster at Universal?

[/I]

This is what you said. Then later you said "who cares about hourly capacity?" Isn't that exactly what you asked?

We get it. You think Disney is the King. They are. Numbers don't lie. But even Disney has to respect Universal's development as of late, particularly where HP is concerned. What they have been able to do in such a short period of time (compared to Disney) has been stunning. I saw many pictures and videos from last night's media event and the new HP land is nothing short of jaw droppingly spectacular.

Universal is not about being #1. They know they can never bring in the numbers that the Disney parks do. But any percentage of visitors that they gain is a win. Disney's attendance numbers, by comparison, are only seeing meager gains year to year while UOR is showing double digit gains. That is something Disney does not want to see. Sea World is on its way down, I think. Slowly but surely. Nothing to debate there. The numbers are telling the story.

Disney needs to do a LOT more to bring WDW up to its own standards. The place is slowly becoming a relic. Epcot and DHS both need serious work. Look at what the DCA revitalization has done for Disneyland. They are literally having to actively try and lower their park attendance, the place is so busy. But, I bet once HP opens at Universal Hollywood, Disney won't have such overcrowding issues. Just wait.

[kbean]

I keep seeing more and more people with universal bags in disney parks. And over hearing more people cutting disney trip short for universal. They're both great parks!!!

[PirateLover]

On the whole, WDW will always exceed Universal in overall park attendance. That being said, many people on these boards are venturing over to Universal for the first time with the opening of Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and finding themselves pleasantly surprised. I had zero desire to spend any of my vacation days at Universal before Harry Potter. Now, I do. On our Honeymoon in 2010 we spent 4 days at WDW and 2 days at Universal. With the new HP expansion, I plan to spend 2-3 days of my next Orlando vacation at Universal. If we didn't have a baby on the way, I'd probably be planning a long Universal-only weekend for August or September right now. I don't know one single person (talking in my real life here, not message board) who is planning a trip to WDW solely due to Snow White 7D Mine Train. I do have a number of friends (4 to be exact) who have already taken Universal-only trips to see Wizarding World, and I'm sure they'll be back to check out the expansion as soon as possible.

[eandrsmom]

I find that for us, we love Disney because of the nostalgia. Both my husband and myself visited when we were children and we spent our honeymoon at Disney. We've visited with our kids since they were little and have great memories of our trips. That being said, I can tell you that we visited Universal last summer, and I was pleasantly surprised at their parks. Of course I didn't get that warm, nostalgic feeling that I get at Disney, but I have to admit that I was impressed with their attractions. It seems that Universal creates a concept, then makes it happen in a short amount of time. It seems like Disney takes forever to complete new things at their parks. How many years has it taken for the Avitar concept to break ground? How long did it take to complete Fantasyland? I think that right now, Universal's marketing strategy has an edge by adding new attractions and updating new ones. They are appealing to a generation of young adults that aren't concerned about the nostalgia.

[Tink1]

When IOA opened I had the chance to talk with one of the big wigs.

The things I remember him saying were:

they were not even going after the same demographic as Disney, they wanted the 8-18 yr old high tech kid who had not sat on Sunday nights watching Walt / World of Color on TV.

Knew they were not a week long destination (at that point) but were hoping for 2-4 days of a family vacation.

That they would try and bring new and exciting things to Universal Orlando as time goes on.

They were not Disney, did not want to be Disney and would never be Disney. There were no warm fuzzies associated with Uni and that was fine with them. Again, going after the 8-18 yr old techie.

Any influx of vacationers into the Orlando Theme Park Market was a good thing for every park. (and I have heard this from Disney as well)

I think Universal is very pleased with who and where they are....... as are their fans.

I cannot wait to see the new additions and re-experience the old!

Nanc

[MizMissy]

When IOA opened I had the chance to talk with one of the big wigs.

The things I remember him saying were:

they were not even going after the same demographic as Disney, they wanted the 8-18 yr old high tech kid who had not sat on Sunday nights watching Walt / World of Color on TV.

Knew they were not a week long destination (at that point) but were hoping for 2-4 days of a family vacation.

That they would try and bring new and exciting things to Universal Orlando as time goes on.

They were not Disney, did not want to be Disney and would never be Disney. There were no warm fuzzies associated with Uni and that was fine with them. Again, going after the 8-18 yr old techie.

Any influx of vacationers into the Orlando Theme Park Market was a good thing for every park. (and I have heard this from Disney as well)

I think Universal is very pleased with who and where they are....... as are their fans.

I cannot wait to see the new additions and re-experience the old!

Nanc

And ... it's working!!! My kids LOVE Universal. They are huge HP fans and thrill ride junkies. I am the only one in my family who still wanted a WDW trip and, frankly, with all the FP + nonsense with huge planning and long lines, I now no longer desire to go to WDW.

Universal is so easy. You can walk to everything. Express Pass is so wonderful, you almost feel guilty for how quickly you speed through the lines. The hotels are really nice. It is a very low stress vacation.

And, like PirateLover pointed out ... I do not know anyone who is planning a trip to WDW just to ride the short Dwarfs Mine Train ride, but I know plenty of people (my kids and most of their friends in that number) chomping at the bit for a Universal trip to see Diagon Alley, Hogwarts Express, and Gringotts Ride.

Maybe Hippogriff and Dueling Dragons are repurposed ... but there is nothing repurposed about Gringotts, Hogwarts Express and Diagon Alley. It's very new and very exciting.

I know this is a Disney site ... and I love Disney. I don't think you can only love one if you hate the other. Universal is doing great things. They are not Disney. They do not want to be Disney. But, they are gaining in market share and that is exactly what they want ...

[Tink1]

.......
Those making their Day One Potter pilgrimage likely won't be going over to the Toon area to ride Dudley Do-Right's Falls, or paying much attention to the Dr. Seuss area "in the way".

I actually think you would be surprised at the reports we get back from clients. They go for Potter, and end up doing it all and enjoying it all.

.......
It's an audacious bit of current-property licensing, and well produced with quite a few dollars, but, er...isn't that what Disney thought about American Idol?
("But Potter is forever!"...Suuuuure it is. Just like the Simpsons and Michael Bay's Transformers. )

Nothing is forever. (If you had wings, Mission to Mars, Magic Journeys, Mr Toad Wild ride, Horizons, Body Wars, Submarines etc.)

Every park, in every state and country, has to keep re-inventing itself for the next generation. Universal has this generations attention for now. It is not a bad thing! Disney will always be Disney, but even they have reinvented themselves time and time again.

'tis the nature of the beast.

Nanc

[MizMissy]

And that's the problem--Universal focuses attention so much on ONE attraction and hi-profile property at a time, they don't encourage guests to explore or immerse themselves in the rest of the park.
Those making their Day One Potter pilgrimage likely won't be going over to the Toon area to ride Dudley Do-Right's Falls, or paying much attention to the Dr. Seuss area "in the way".

It's an audacious bit of current-property licensing, and well produced with quite a few dollars, but, er...isn't that what Disney thought about American Idol?
("But Potter is forever!"...Suuuuure it is. Just like the Simpsons and Michael Bay's Transformers. )

The original question was which ride will have more riders ... I think the real question is which "new addition" has more of a draw to pull guests into the parks .... New FantasyLand or Diagon Alley?

So, my point was that if you talk to people, Diagon Alley seems to be the bigger draw of "I want to see that new addition!" Yes, Universal is focusing all their advertising on showcasing their new addition ... Diagon Alley ... just like early last year, they focused their marketing on the new Despicable Me ride, then last summer, they focused their marketing on their new addition of Transformers ride ... and in the fall on Simpsons area of the parks. They keep focusing on all their new additions because they have a lot of new things in their parks to draw people in!

Like I said, Disney will always be Disney. But, Universal is growing ... and doing things well and quickly ... so the kids are saying "when we go to WDW, let's spend a few days over at that other park with all the NEW stuff" and that is exactly what Universal is after.

[DisneyBunch]

I find that for us, we love Disney because of the nostalgia. Both my husband and myself visited when we were children and we spent our honeymoon at Disney. We've visited with our kids since they were little and have great memories of our trips. That being said, I can tell you that we visited Universal last summer, and I was pleasantly surprised at their parks. Of course I didn't get that warm, nostalgic feeling that I get at Disney, but I have to admit that I was impressed with their attractions. It seems that Universal creates a concept, then makes it happen in a short amount of time. It seems like Disney takes forever to complete new things at their parks. How many years has it taken for the Avitar concept to break ground?
How long did it take to complete Fantasyland? I think that right now, Universal's marketing strategy has an edge by adding new attractions and updating new ones. They are appealing to a generation of young adults that aren't concerned about the nostalgia.

I agree 100%. My family have long been Hardcore Disney fanatics, but after my first and only trip to Universal last year, I have to admit I was impressed. Forbidden Journey is the best ride I have ever been on. Comcast is investing heavily into their parks, and it shows. They complete major projects in relatively short periods of time (compared to Disney). Why can't Disney do this? The answer is that they can, but why don't they? The answer is $$$. They don't want to spend it, yet they consistently increase the premium prices that they expect us to pay. Universal is not WDW and they never will be, but they are doing many things right. I will always love Disney, but they no longer will receive my family's visits twice yearly. In fact, we now only visit once every two to three years, and when we do, Universal is a destination along with WDW. I love Disney enough to know that they NEED to improve. We may be a drop in the ocean, as far as Disney is concerned, but rain falls one drop at a time. If it rains enough, Disney will notice.

[Arielfan98]

It's possible, but it's one coaster. Disney is making an Avatar and Star Wars land. No way is Universal taking the cake home!