Beer and wine to be served at Be Our Guest

[Mousemates]

I can understand the case that has been made. However, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will stop at this. If there is one thing current management is consistent at, it is taking a "good thing" and overdoing it. If it is going over well, especially if it is making money hand over fist, they are unlikely to be able to resist the temptation to take it one step further. They've done it with everything over recent years. Always taking something one or two steps further than they really should.

I regretfully suspect you will be proven correct.

[Kathy Jetson]

I remember back in the late 80s, early 90s when you couldn't even purchase a shot glass anywhere on property. I distinctly remember because my friend collected them, and we went to WDW for spring break every year, and she could never find any. I know it's not equivalent to this decision, but I remember being surprised when I saw them popping up various places.

I'm okay with this. Yes, I enjoy a good drink, and have no issue with having beer or wine available as part of a fine dining experience. But like many others, beer/wine carts and availability at QS restaurants just wouldn't seem right, and I do hope they don't go that direction.

I was very surprised on our last trip I saw shot glasses everywhere. Maybe I just never noticed them before. When I got home from vacation I was looking at the Disney Store on line and they had a lot of them there to but they call them toothpick holders. I know a shot glass when I see one Anyway I just thought it was interesting they didn't call them shot glasses.

[Quadstriker]

Okay it's time to talk about the beverage menu.


Very glad to see the Fairy Tale champagne. It's one of our favorites. Wish we could get it elsewhere. We have a bottle of it stashed away for a special occasion.

Was hoping they'd have Rosa Regale as their Rose. They have it at many other restaurants at Disney. I'm not familiar with their offering there.

I'm not a fan of dessert wine at all, but I could be convinced to try the La Fleur, it sounds interesting.

The Hoegaarden is the only beer I've had, and it's not my favorite. I normally prefer darker beers so I'll probably try the Chimay when I visit.

[dlpmikki]

When the Magic Kingdom park opened at Eurodisney it had the same tradition of no alcohol. It also had had some very good restaurants (including one called Walts on Main Street). The Europeans could not understand this at all - even my mother-in-law was completely surprised that she could not get a glass of wine with her nice meal. The no alcohol rule did not last long but I believe you can still only get drinks at the table service restaurants and from a small selection of wines. I haven't seen any drunkenness in the park over there.

It may be a different issue in Florida. I haven't been to the food and wine festival for some years because I have really hated seeing the state people get into. I hope people are sensible with this new restaurant and that the food warrants the change. If it is really good then wine might enhance the experience if you like it. Have to say Coke would not be a drink I associate with good food - water would more to my taste. I like Coke but not with a nice meal!

Guess I am on the wall about whether it is a good idea but it has been happening in Paris for nearly 20 years.

[Aurora]

I really waited to post on this one. I totally understand both sides. Florida isn't dry, and it's kind of silly to think people couldn't get drunk over at Epcot and then hop the monorail to the MK. Practically speaking, you're already not really keeping alcohol out of the MK. And if it's served at restaurants only, that's OK with me.

I AM slightly surprised that they decided to make this decision after so many reports lately about drunk and rowdy people drinking their way around the world at Epcot. I've never been during Food & Wine, and I suspect the kiosks and the more adult atmosphere have a lot to do with that.

I'm guessing that Disney is taking a "let's try this and see" approach here. It's a new restaurant and easy to do with the menu. Let's face it, the magnifying glass is really big here, and if guests do get out of control, Disney will get more of a black eye PR-wise if anything happens at the MK than at any other park.

[PirateLover]

While I'm surprised this happened, I'm OK with it. We were discussing the idea in a previous thread and I pretty much said I would be fine with exactly what ended up happening- Only beer and wine, only if you have a reservation, no bar or "to-go" option. As has been mentioned, people enter the MK with alcohol in their system every day, you probably just don't know it. I won't deny stopping at the Tambu lounge to have some Lapu Lapus before heading over to the MK once. I did not offend anyone, I didn't stumble around, I did not vomit on anyone. I might have laughed a little harder than usual at Splash Mountain during Laughing Place scene, but overall I'm quite certain that I did not ruin anyone else's experience.

That being said I do think some of the fears out there have a basis. I think, what this speaks to, is the culture of binge drinking and people taking things too far. This is definitely a problem overall in America as compared to many European countries, for example. I have read the posts about people witnessing this type of behavior at World Showcase, so I do believe that it happens, but in all my trips to WDW I have never seen anyone acting completely outrageous and totally drunk in any of the parks, like I do see any given weekend at a local bar or restaurant, Atlantic City, etc. I did "drinking around the world" with my family before but we shared some drinks because to be honest, it's expensive! I just can't see many people getting ressies at BoG just to be able to plant their butt and get sloshed. I think it's respectable that MK lasted so long keeping to its dry tradition, but I don't think this is going to be the end of fantasyland civilization as we know it.

[Jared]

Jared, that's a really good point. One that makes me sad to reflect on, but good point.

Thanks, Sherri. It's not a point I necessarily wanted to make, but I feel it's necessary.

In reading this thread (and it has been a good one, for the most part), I think there really are three arguments being made concurrently. They each have their merits and their pratfalls, but I think ultimately only one of them holds any real water.

1) Walt Disney (allegedly) didn't want alcohol in Disneyland, and therefore he wouldn't want alcohol in the Magic Kingdom -- I think this one has been practically debunked at this point. Many people, including myself, have written about the concept of basing decisions on the will of a dead man.

A few of you have brought up the old story about Disney and Busch. It certainly is a fantastic story, and I bet it's at least based in fact -- but I highly doubt it's true.

Walt was a storyteller. He didn't always live in truth and reality. So many supposed stories about Walt are just that -- stories. They have grown and expanded and become something entirely different: "Waltisms." Did Walt actually want the Utilidors in the Magic Kingdom because he saw a cowboy in Tomorrowland? Did he decide to "plus" the Jungle Cruise because he really overheard a mother telling her daughter they didn't need to ride it this time? I suppose it's possible, at least to an extent. But I've studied enough about Walt's life to know that a lot of stories -- Waltisms -- aren't entirely true. So although the Busch-Disney yarn is a great story for fans to tell and for the company to quote when convenient, that's not enough to persuade me.

(As an aside, do you all know the famous Walt quote "if you can dream it, you can do it?" If you say yes, you're wrong. Because that's not a Walt quote. That line was actually written by Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald for the Horizons attraction. It's been attributed to Walt so much over the years that most people believe he said it.

2) Alcohol is wrong. What about the children? -- Everybody is entitled to their opinions regarding alcohol. But in this context, it's pretty much irrelevant. The other three theme parks have alcohol. If it's morally wrong in the Magic Kingdom, it's morally wrong in Epcot, Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom. The notion of the Magic Kingdom being more "pure" than the other parks is just silly and unrealistic. If you're against alcohol and you visit the other Disney parks, you can be against alcohol and visit the Magic Kingdom. It's that simple.

3) The Magic Kingdom being dry is a tradition, and it should remain that way for the sake of the tradition -- I think this is the the best argument and the one I can accept. I am all for traditions when appropriate. I am fine with the Magic Kingdom being dry simply because it's always been dry. Honestly, that's good enough for me. But traditions change sometimes. So it goes. Sometimes it's for the best.

I think this is what I fear the most. I'm actually happy that I wasn't one of the "lucky" ones to get an ADR at BOG so that we won't have to deal with the alcohol issue. But if it starts here, it will start spreading to all of MK. But it won't even stop there, I fear. It will soon jump across the country and land in Disneyland.

Alcohol is like the Borg. We will all be assimilated.

Seriously? My man, this statement is so out there that it borders on trollish. We get it, you're against alcohol. I'm not sure your feelings aren't unfounded. I rarely drink and totally understand your objections. But if you feel this strongly about it, how can you visit the other parks in good conscious? Doesn't it make you feel like a hypocrite? Or is your beef specifically with alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. In that case, you're making an entirely different argument altogether.

[Mousemates]

When you come down to it, there are several reasons not to put alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. They have been discussed here. On the other hand, no-one will convince me that there is more than one compelling reason to put alcohol in the MK, profit.

Sure its a money thing and the movement to alcohol in the MK is also likely connected to a demographic shift in Disneys patrons. The percentage of adults in our nation who drink alcohol typically bounces between 55% and 70% (which means non drinking adults is between 45% and 30%).

However, those are simply overall numbers...the percentage of people who drink alcohol rises with income levels (with those who make above $75000 a year drinking hit the statistical high mark of 81%). As Disney has become more expensive over the years, its clientele (by necessity) has become more and more affluent as less affluent visitors are priced out of the market (we have many discussion on intercot where this reality is mentioned).

Well, that shift to a wealthier customer base has made it statistically more likely that the folks who vacation at Disney are more likely to imbibe than the general population. one would expect guest surveys to reflect this trend and one would also expect the folks who make decisions (especially those who make them purely form a financial perspective) to seek the new revenue stream. I understand that.

However,I for one don't like it, because i think the addition of adult beverages in the most child focused area of WDW (fantasyland in the MK) will steal away some of the "child like innocence" from the happiest part of the happiest place on earth.

Seems to me that the current arrangement didn't stunt the MKs growth over the years. I think it is worth noting that the MK is still by far the most popular park even without adult beverages. I wish they would just leave things the way they are. But apparently that is not going to be the case. Time will tell if its a mistake. I hope problems are minimal.

[dailyprincessme]

With out going into too much detail on my personal & religious beliefs, I have to say that I absolutely loved that there were fine dining options at Disney where I did not have to explain to a waiter that we didn't need the wine menu as neither my wife nor I drink. The looks that I have received from waiters (even at WDW - especially California Grill, Les Chefs de France, and Le Cellier) are scaithing at worst, indignant at best. The reason is just as everyone has mentioned before - alcohol is a very profitable item to have on a menu. I have worked at fine dining in Hilton Head, SC and know from personal experience that managers push for upselling the customers to high profit items and that waiters want to do this as it raises the ticket total. Because we do not drink, we are not ordering that high ticket item, and therefore the amount the waiter's tip is based on will be less.

This coupled with the fact that ALL alcohol smells like urine to me doesn't help my dining experience at all. Besides, when did beer become fancy? I am baffled by that completely, and yes, I understand that it will be imported from France and Belgium, but it's still beer in a nice glass instead of a red solo cup! Beer in this country is associated with bars, tailgating, and college parties not fine dining.

To those that say that wine and beer are needed for the profit margins - I would say look to Cinderella's Royal Table. That restaurant is a prime example - it is ALWAYS completely booked in advance. BoG will be exactly the same, especially for the first year or so as it will be so bright and shinney and new! Alcohol being on their menu or it's absence will not play a factor in how many people dine there just as it doesn't at CRT. People go to CRT for the atmosphere/romanticism of dining in the castle and then the food. BoG will be exactly the same way - people want to experience the story of Beauty and the Beast. We have loved that story for decades now (yikes) and now we get to go into the story! The restaurant will book up regardless of what is served there. Alcohol is only there to drive up ticket averages.

I don't think that alcohol has a place in the Magic Kingdom. It was taught to us in Traditions when I was a CM many years ago that this was a decision made by Walt to ensure that the park was a family friendly environment. Will alcohol make the entire park not family friendly, no, but it does take it a step away from being a park where the entire family can go regardless of age and experience a wonderful time together - the reason Walt built Disneyland in the first place.

To those that say that you HAVE to have wine with a meal to fully appreciate it, I call schinanigans! Good food is good food and does not require alcohol to enjoy. If the chef wanted to, there are ways of having non-fermented grape juice that would compliment the food.
My last point is that the decision to choose a restaurant that is in Fantasyland as their first restaurant that would serve alcohol and deviate from a 41 year tradition is just poor judgement. Fantasyland is about the children, imagination, and fantasy. I would have slightly less of a hard time accepting this at Liberty Tree Tavern or at Tony's, but really, Fantasyland? So disappointing.

Sorry for the long post, but this really disappoints me and has dampened my excitement for not only this restaurant, but for the entire Fantasyland expansion. There will always be change, but when we loose sight of where we come from and the traditions that have made us who we are, then we have truly lost a part of ourselves. WDW has lost a part of itself in the name of profit.

I seriously have thought that my husband and I were the only couple left (who ISN'T expecting) that didn't drink. Um...can we all have a Disney Meet someday

[Gator]

Seriously? My man, this statement is so out there that it borders on trollish. We get it, you're against alcohol. I'm not sure your feelings aren't unfounded. I rarely drink and totally understand your objections. But if you feel this strongly about it, how can you visit the other parks in good conscious? Doesn't it make you feel like a hypocrite? Or is your beef specifically with alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. In that case, you're making an entirely different argument altogether.

I hate it at all parks. But when you're at war with something, and I consider myself at war with alcohol, you take positions and try to defend them. Do you think anyone would listen to me if I called for an all out ban at WDW? I know better. It's entrenched at the other parks. But I have to hold my ground somewhere, and I think the MK is the last castle to defend. Unfortunately, I've lost the flag on this one.

This will be my last opinion that should be shared on this matter in this forum. I really can't expect everyone to hate it like I do without experiencing it like I have. Nor would I ever want anyone to experience it the way I have. And that's exactly why I fight against it at every oppurtunity.

[dailyprincessme]

I hate it at all parks. But when you're at war with something, and I consider myself at war with alcohol, you take positions and try to defend them. Do you think anyone would listen to me if I called for an all out ban at WDW? I know better. It's entrenched at the other parks. But I have to hold my ground somewhere, and I think the MK is the last castle to defend. Unfortunately, I've lost the flag on this one.

This will be my last opinion that should be shared on this matter in this forum. I really can't expect everyone to hate it like I do without experiencing it like I have. Nor would I ever want anyone to experience it the way I have. And that's exactly why I fight against it at every oppurtunity.

Funny, I was JUST thinking, "I wonder how many people, who are against drinks being served in MK would actually give up going there next time they made a trip to WDW." instead go to all of the other parks, DTD and resorts, and I was like, "No one at all." I would be willing not to go, and if I could OF ALL PEOPLE (and I know non of you know me, but let's just say, it's a HUGE DEAL) why wouldn't anyone else who's against it do it? What an insanely crazy thought...

[PirateLover]

Are we really going to go down sob story lane? Look, people drink irresponsibly. People die because of it and people have been killed as a result of others drinking. That is a fact. I bet we all know of someone who has struggled with alcohol. I know I do (know others, that is). But that does not mean that EVERY person who picks up a drink is going to turn into some raving savage lunatic. When the day comes that Aloha Isle starts selling Dole Whips spiked with Vodka, then I will agree that things have gone too far. I highly doubt that day will come.

[Daisy'sMom]

I love a glass of wine with my meals and enjoy a beer once in a while. If I want a margarita at WDW, I go to Epcot. I hope that they do not allow anything more than the wine and beer at MK, I love tradition and hate the idea of things changing there.
I have seen to many inebriated guests at Epcot and during the wine and food fest, I can barely tolerate the obnoxious behavior. Knowing that the same people go to MK, I do not like the idea of alcohol being served at MK. I am sadly disappointed in the Disney Co.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well, I haven't read through the multiple pages of this thread to see everyone's answers, but the biggest drawback to me is the fact that they've linked it with Beauty and the Beast. Children are very easily influenced.

The same Beauty and the Beast where they mention wine being served in "Be Our Guest" song, where champagne bottles are popped during the song (oh and also in PhilharMagic)... Where Gaston and his buddies drink beer in his tavern, and Lefou even asks him if he wants more beer, and appears Gaston drowns his sorrows in alcohol... That Beauty and the Beast?

[Jared]

The same Beauty and the Beast where they mention wine being served in "Be Our Guest" song, where champagne bottles are popped during the song (oh and also in PhilharMagic)... Where Gaston and his buddies drink beer in his tavern, and Lefou even asks him if he wants more beer, and appears Gaston drowns his sorrows in alcohol... That Beauty and the Beast?

"Wine's been poured and thank the Lord, I've had the napkins freshly pressed."

[Melanie]

Okay folks, I completely sympathize with personal feelings regarding alcohol, although the arguments presented here with regards to what we're discussing (ONE TS restaurant at MK serving beer and wine during dinner hours) have just about left me speechless. I'm actually a bit confused considering there are many of us here at INTERCOT who happily enjoy a or some , and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Yes, there are idiots in this world, and yes accidents happen, but fact is, alcohol is a part of our society.

Points have been made on all sides, and it's now time to move on. I don't want to close this thread because this is big news, and civil discussion is warranted. Should continue, posts will be deleted.

[PirateLover]

Pregnant women also aren't supposed to eat sushi, among other things. At any rate I do believe there are valid criticisms for serving alcohol, but blaming all the ills of the world on it is decidedly antiquated. You can choose not drink, but don't condemn everyone that does. We are not all evil. I'm sure Disney will not let MK become overrun with adults three sheets to the wind.

[dailyprincessme]

I really don't see how this at all relates to my point at all. I said that we shouldn't necessarily stand by "what Walt wanted" because sometimes what he wanted isn't exactly acceptable today. Your response was just another overarching attack on the dangers of alcohol -- a message I sympathize with, but it doesn't really add to a discussion about whether alcohol belongs specifically in the Magic Kingdom.

I do apologize. My thinking was that the whole "drinking in MK" is being looked at as "it's just a glass or two of beer or wine with dinner" but when "just a glass or two" could pose potential health dangers in any way, shape or form, then I feel that it does not belong at the most magical place on earth. Yes, it is at EPCOT, DHS, and AK, and none of those hold the same "magic" to me as MK will.

[Stu29573]

The bottom line is that it doesnt matter a bit what any of us think. They are going to do what they are going to do. I will never be totally for it, many will never be against it, but it doesnt matter because WE dont matter. Therefore I excuse myself from this thread and choose to focus on better and brighter things.....

[CanadianWDWFan]

Been sitting back reading all the posts, now I feel comfortable posting.

With out going into too much detail on my personal & religious beliefs, I have to say that I absolutely loved that there were fine dining options at Disney where I did not have to explain to a waiter that we didn't need the wine menu as neither my wife nor I drink. The looks that I have received from waiters (even at WDW - especially California Grill, Les Chefs de France, and Le Cellier) are scaithing at worst, indignant at best...

Really? When we go out to restaurants at WDW and don't order drinks I have NEVER seen wait staff give me or my wife the look. We have never had to explain ourselves for our choice.

All around this planet we call home, there are countless folks enjoy a drink without going overboard. I for one would not consider passing on travelling anywhere simply for the fact that they do or don't sell alcohol. I don't care one way or the other how one chooses enjoy their meal or experience, it is their choice after all. Who am I to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do.