Dog Help! (May be long, sorry)

[Lizzy]

I have a sheltie, Tony, who will be 7 in October. I have had him since the day he was born.

He is very mellow, except he gets timid around strange dogs. He will even posture and try to act dominant without agression.

My sister had a dog, Bishop, that was constantly trying to be pack leader against her male dog. She ended up finding Bishop a new home. Bishop is a pit mix. He gets along great with female dogs and is fantastic with kids of all ages. He has not been around other male dogs except Logan, my sisters Catahoula that would fight with him.

The people she gave Bishop to abandoned him and their other dog in a house with no ac. Their other dog was a female and they never had a single issue. My sister rescued Bishop back but could not bring him back to her house for obvious reasons.

My sheltie, Tony, is used to being in his crate or back in my son's room most of the time, because my little kids make him nervous and pull on his long hair.

So we decided to keep Bishop for the time being while we look for a home for him. We have a back fenced area, and the house is separated by a strong metal baby gate already to keep the kids out of the back bathroom and bedroom.

Bishop has been an absolute gentleman in the house. He is completly house trained. And my kids (while I try not to let them) climb all over him and he just licks them alot. He doesn't chew on anything that is not a dog toy.

I took tony out to the back to go to the bathroom. I let them smell each other through the gate. Bishop barked and snapped a little. Tony's nose was well through the gate. I don't think Bishop intended to bite him, because he could have grabbed him easily. He did not bite Tony. Tony just backed up. I said "bishop no!" and Bishop just froze and watched me after that.

I petted Tony in front of him and then put Tony away. Bishop did not try to get through the gate or anything after that. He just went on his way.

Today Tony was in the back yard and Bishop saw him through the window and bristled.

I want to get these dogs introduced to each other without a fight. My sheltie no doubt will get ripped up if that happens. Sheltie's have a high pack mentality and will challenge to be a higher rank dog. Also, my sheltie only knows one other game to play with other dogs, chase me. But if he runs, Bishop will be sure to chase and catch him. Tony will freak out and again, probably a fight will happen.

What is the best way to get them used to each other's existance? I do not plan to ever let them run around loose together, but I don't want them barking and lunging if the kids are around.

My SO really likes the Pit, I do too, he is a wonderful dog. He is 3 years old. But I don't want to neglect my sheltie because of Bishop.

Any Advice? Cesar (Dog Whisperer) says one theory and Victoria Stillwell (me or the dog) has a diffrent approach. I wonder what would work in real life then? Or is it hopeless and we should find another foster/ permanant home for Bishop?

[minnie04]

WOW! I feel ya, I have a little inside dog (female) and we found (well he found us) a male American Bulldog. He is a gentle giant and she thinks she owns the place. Which really she does she was here first. I would love to hear what people tell you to do as far as putting them together. I know I didn’t give any advice, but I will be listening (reading) to all the responses to hopefully get some great tips. I too have watched and listened to both Cesar & Victoria. I almost wrote to them to get help..lol. I hope someone can help us both..

[PirateLover]

What are the different theories? I know how you feel, it is scary sometimes to take the chance of letting dogs get together. I have a cockapoo (Clark) and we tried to introduce him on a leash when he was a puppy to my brother's rescued pit/lab mix (Clubber). I helped rescue Clubber 2 years before Clark came into the picture and spent a lot of time with him as I lived right next door to my brother before I got married. Clubber was as sweet as can be, very submissive when it came to other dogs. Well, I don't know what happened, but they didn't take well to each other and the next thing we knew clubber had a hold of Clarkie's neck. Their collars got stuck together and thankfully my cousin who is a customs officer was able to grab hold of Clubber's jaw and put pressure on it to get him to release. Thanfully Clark was OK but that incident definitely made me really skittish. Since then I've noticed Clark is very defensive when he is on a leash or behind a barrier. He will growl and snarl and snap at a dog over the fence, or when he is on a leash, but if you put them together, suddenly he is the other dog's best friend. (most of the time). Like your sheltie, though, he loves to chase and be chased.. and to try to mount... he has a few dog friends who put up with these shenanigans but there have been others that don't take too kindly to it. This makes me believe he probably did something snippy to Clubber and that's how that whole thing happened. I wonder if it might not be worth it to find a professional dog trainer in your area and have them help you. We had a trainer for our dog as a puppy and he NEVER acted up around him. Some people just have that natural instinct with dogs.

[SBETigg]

It's really not fair to Tony, poor Tony, to have to live put away. Have you considered placing him somewhere that he can live more freely? I know that is hard to consider and a lot to ask since you have had him in your life all these years. But Shelties are herders. They need some space. But if the only question is on Bishop, and if Tony is spending more time crated or kept to a room because of Bishop, I think Tony has to be the priority. My thought is that it's wonderful to care and I know you want to help, but I think Bishop has to go. That's obviously not an expert opinion, just my thoughts on it. Sometimes it's hard to make decisions when you know there's no good answer.

[Lizzy]

Both of these dogs as puppies went through obedience training with the exact same trainer, just at diffrent times. (Tony is 4 years older than Bishop)

Cesar says to let them loose, like drop the leash and let them posture and sniff. I watched a video where this went horrible wrong and he had an all out pit bull fight on camera that he had a really hard time stopping. Total fail.

Victoria theory was to put the new dog on a leash, and leave older dog loose. I can sort of see the theory here, but I am afraid that Bishop will pull me down, so I have to wait until Scott is home.

I just don't want any biting at all.

Someone suggested I take them to neutral ground, both on leashes and let them smell and get used to each other. Than walk home together. We are going to try that tomorrow as we have a empty field a couple blocks over.

My 4 year old is scared of dogs, so Bishop made him a little nervous at first. If a dog fight broke out or even loud barking or snarling he will probably be upset. I also don't want any kids caught in the crossfire (I have 3 kids, 13, 4 and 1.5)

I am comfortable keeping them separated all the time, but I don't want them to be on each side of the gate, fence or door and get over excited or territorial if a kid is standing too close. I want them to learn that the other is not a threat

[Lizzy]

Tony is put up alot already because of the small kids. I had to give his mother to a rescue because she would snap at the kids. Tony will spend his time in his crate even if the crate is left open. He just doesn't like to be pestered too much. He likes being out in his backyard area (but because it is FL and so darn hot this year he can't be out for long) so he stays in my ODS room most of the time anyway. he is not put up any more than he was before Bishop was here.

[Katzateer]

I have raised Shelties for years. The first 4 we kept ( we sold some litters) all got along- I think being the same breed and temperament helped.

When our girls were small we got another Sheltie. She is very shy. We could not find another dog she would accept.

I wanted a Golden but she was scared of larger dogs. When a friend of mine that works for a Golden rescue had 2 litters come to them in one week ( they were desperate) we took in one litter of 3. They were 6 weeks old and I raised them to 3 months, then 2 were placed in another home and we kept one. That was the only way I could get my Sheltie to accept another dog ( she thinks she is 80 pound Kringle's mom).

With small kids in the house Shelties aren't always the best. They can be really nervous around kids, especially if the kids are pulling their hair. Sounds like the other dog is a better match for your kids ( except if one is afraid of it ).But it would be hard to give up your Sheltie since you have raised it from a pup. But honestly, if I had a child that was scared of dogs, I wouldn't have a part pit bull in the house.

It would be scary to have the dogs together. Keeping them separate would be the only way I could handle it.

We have 2 Siamese cats we took in when my mother in law passed away. They try to kill our other cats so we have to keep them apart in our house. It is not an ideal situation but we are making it work. But it gets difficult at times making sure all the animals get all the attention they need.

Sorry I can't help, but hopefully you will find a way to make it work for both dogs.

[MNNHFLTX]

Definitely not an expert on dog behavior, but have had to socialize dogs (and cats) with others critters many times in my life. It's a tough situation you're in--some breeds are so unpredictable that even if you think you've got a good procedure to follow to acquaint them with another dog, really--anything could happen. In this case, Tony has been the alpha dog for a long time in your house and it may not be fair to expect him to adapt to another male dog with alpha tendencies. Even though the kids love Bishop and he sounds like a great dog, his past behavior is probably the best indicator of how well he can get along with Tony (and vice-versa). If it were me, I would probably try and find another home for Bishop in a house with no other dogs or just female dogs, rather than take the chance of an accidental meeting with Tony or one that might get out of hand (and scare your kids).

[VWL Mom]

Are there any trainers in your local area. It would probably be a good idea to get one to come in and access the situation. Dealing with 2 alphas is never easy but considering one is a pit mix, this may not ever change.

We rescued a Great Pyr from TN last year and were told that she would be fine with male dogs but we should never bring another alpha female into our home. She just wouldn't adapt.

You have a tough decision to make but IMO you shouldn't wait too long, especially with little ones in the home.

[Mickey'sGirl]

We had problems when we had two alpha females in our home. It was stressful and unpleasant for the people and for all of the dogs (there were four dogs in total). We are all very experienced with dogs of all shapes and sizes, but it just could not work in our home. However, two of the dogs were my sister's and the problem was solved when they moved out, but if they were staying, one of the dogs would have had to go. It impacted the whole household, and gave undue stress to everyone, especially the children.

In your case, especially if you have a child who is afraid of Bishop, I would find a new home for him. Your children cannot be afraid of the dogs, as they have to be their leaders.

Good luck with everything!

[Dulcee]

Go with Victoria Stillwell for any and all dog advice. Run, don't walk, away from Cesear's training tips.

Honestly, the one and true way to get the dogs use to each other is time and positive reinforcement.

Introduce the dogs in a neutral territory. Have both on leashes if your afraid they can both be reactive. The people on the other end of the leashes should be calm and able to maintain that calm if the situation becomes stressful.

Don't force the dogs to interact. Are they food attentive? Toy attentive? Whatever works for each dog, keep them happy. Start with introductions where each dog is nearby, can see and smell one another but not touch. Keep them interested in a toy or a treat or just looking at you. You ideally want them to be able to focus on something else, even though this strange dog is a around. Carry high reward treats, think hot dog or chicken breast. And slow and steady. If one dog starts to become aggressive immediately remove him from the situation. Once calm bring him back, treat him for being calm. Same with the other dog. Over time you'll be able to bring them closer and closer, allowing sniffing and greetings.

Most dogs can be taught to live peacefully with each other. The keys are being calm, working slowly and POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. Dogs want to make their people happy. Stay away from dominance training, it will only add more stress to an already stressful situation.

Also I wouldn't stress about the breeds involved. Every dog's temperament is different. The key here is really going slow and steady so neither dog is put into an unpredictable situation. My mother's pit mix was highly reactive with other dogs, she now tolerates my dog coming over to visit. They'll never be "friends" but both have learned to coexist and that neither is threat to one another.

[Lizzy]

Thanks everyone. I do appreciate all the comments and thoughts.

I am working with my 4 year old to say "Bishop Down" when Bishop walks up to him and tries to kiss him. It really helped when PJ said it and Bishop obeyed. PJ was far more relaxed with him yesterday and and even played with him.

Tony is very oversized for his breed. He is actually the same size as Bishop.

We are taking them to the field today to sniff and see each other. We plan on walking them home together (one dog per adult) The kids will be at home with my oldest DS so that the dogs won't be in a mind to try to protect them or anything.

I had bishop in his crate last night and Tony out in the house. There was no growling and no bristling on either dog. Tony ignored bishop's existince. Bishop seemed quite calm and just watched. he showed no aggitation or aggression at all.

I think with time and patience they will be able to co exist without seeing each other as a threat.

Scott (my so) has had pits his whole life, the only time he hasn't had one was since we have been together. He is very familiar with the breed and their behaviors as I am with shelties (I showed and bred them my whole life, up until 4 years ago)

We still consider Bishop a foster, not our dog but we also know that the chances of finding him a home are very slim. There is much demand for a 3 year old black pitbull. He will probably be with us for some time. The rescues in the area are busting at the seams. Black dogs at our animal shelter are put on special every friday, and if they are not adopted are put down on Saturday. That is all the time they are given.

Both dogs are well behaved and well mannered. I really think that if we are patient and consistant, that they will be able to coexist.

Thank you again for all your thoughts! I truly appreciate it.

[Cinderelley]

I completely agree with taking them to neutral territory. That is what we have always done.

Another thing to be cognizant of is who is around. One time when we were at the pound and found a dog we liked, we brought our two from home to meet him first. Everything was going well until the new dog went over to my oldest son. Then one of our dogs immediately acted up. The employee went around the group again, and our dog, Asia, was fine until he got to my oldest son again. Tony may have picked "his" human, and you will have to find out who it is. In that particular example, my oldest son was sure to give extra attention to our dog Asia for quite a while after we brought the other dog home.

[Lizzy]

We have been cursed by rain every chance Scott and I have gotten to take the dogs to the field (we work opposite schedules)

Bishop has barked a few times at Tony through the gate, or when Tony was loose and Bishop was crated.

I moved Bishops crate to a back corner location.

Tony gets to go out to his yard from 6 am until 10 am (when it gets too hot) and then goes back in my son's room until I get home from work.

Bishop is out in the house while Scott is home during the day, and gets put in his crate when Scott leaves (about 3 pm)

I get home and put tony in his back yard, then take bishop out front. Bishop is put back away while I make dinner and we eat. Tony is then let in and enjoys his family time until bed time. The kids have been behaving better for Tony.

After the kids go to bed, Tony gets fed in his crate in my son's room and is back there for the night. I then let Bishop out for another hour or so until it's time to feed him in his crate.

When Scott gets home about 1 am, he lets Bishop back out and crates him when he comes to bed (4ish) until he gets up again.

Both dogs are getting family time this way, both dogs are being exposed to each other without the risk of a fight. Tony has already calmed down about Bishop and ignores him. Bishop will still bark once if Tony gets too close to his crate. Tony has quickly learned to stay out of Bishop's crate room.

Hopefully we can work on them interacting soon. It is supposed to stay dry today so fingers crossed!

[Dulcee]

Both dogs are getting family time this way, both dogs are being exposed to each other without the risk of a fight. Tony has already calmed down about Bishop and ignores him. Bishop will still bark once if Tony gets too close to his crate. Tony has quickly learned to stay out of Bishop's crate room.

Just this is a step in the right direction!

I hope it all works out well for you!

[Cinderelley]

Sounds like you are all working hard for this. I'm sure it will pay off in the end.

[Lizzy]

Well, things went downhill fast.

Bishop is a good boy, but very strong and rambunctious. We tried to make it work. But he has been jumping up on my younger kids and overly kissing them to the point where they are pinned and screaming.

Last night he jumped at my 1.5 year old.

I called my sister today and told her she needs to make other arrangements for Bishop. He's a good dog just not right for us right now.

Plus with possibly moving I don't know anyone who would allow a renter with a pit. I feel terrible, because if a rescue won't take him there are no other options out there for a big black pit. I hate it because my sister should have never gotten him in the first place and now she wants me to figure out what to do with him. I told her that he is her responsibility and she needs to figure it out. If she doesn't want him put down at the pound.

I'm having a really bad week.

[SBETigg]

I hope it starts looking up for you. I think it's wonderful that you tried to make it work. Do not blame yourself. It's a sad situation for Bishop. He sounds like a great dog who might fit somewhere else, and I hope he has the chance. But your family's well-being has to be your priority. I hope your sister steps up.

[Cinderelley]

Have you looked for a pit rescue society? Out here we have groups that "rescue" different types of dogs. One of my coworkers is in the mastiff rescue one but frequently works with the others. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar groups out there.

[MNNHFLTX]

I would also recommend talking to your vet about the situation; sometimes they have access to or knowledge of people or organizations that might be willing to take him in. He sounds like a great dog and he deserves to have a great home.