Fastpass Changes In March

[Mufasa]

It's per day, but it's a lot more complicated than that. Let's say an attraction's OHRC (operational hourly ride capacity) is 2000 (a more realistic number), and the park will be open for 10 hours as you said.

It actually isn't really terribly complicated- one of the factors that actually controls the fastpass distribution rate is the current standby wait time.

For example, if our hourly ride capacity we estimate is 2000 guests per hour, we take 80 percent of that (or whatever capacity we've reserved for fastpass) so 1600 and then divide that by the current standby wait time (in minutes)

So if the wait is one hour, that gives us roughly 26.6 guests per minute using our example of 2000 guests per hour total capacity. So when we've handed out 26.6 fastpass tickets, bump the return window 1 minute (to slightly simplify things the smallest window used generally is 5 minutes so after we've distributed 133 fastpasses the return window moves 5 minutes).

If there is a long wait for the attraction, say 90 minutes then using the same formula we reduce the number of fastpasses that are handed out before we bump up the return window. Likewise if the standby wait is short, that means we have unused capacity so hand out more fastpasses before we bump up the return window.

[Mufasa]

The challenge for CMs is to meet or exceed the hourly ride capacity targets that are set.

To calculate ride capacity, all you need to know is the dispatch interval and the number of guests served in that interval.

So take Toy Story Mania for example- the dispatch interval target might be 38 seconds. In Toy Story Mania's case, they are actually aiming to dispatch two vehicles every 38 seconds. Each vehicle can hold 8 guests, so that is 16 guests at full capacity.

But think about the seating arrangement- how many of those seats actually go empty? 38 seconds also goes by quickly (especially with guests that aren't paying attention or struggling to get situated and then CMs have to go through safety restraint checks, etc). And that is assuming that all of the gun turrets are working, or you have working screens (if a seat is inoperable then that has a dramatic effect on the ride capacity over time).

[WDWdriver]

It actually isn't really terribly complicated- one of the factors that actually controls the fastpass distribution rate is the current standby wait time.

Thank you for bringing up the standby wait time as part of the equation. And thank you, Mufasa, for contributing to this topic. For those of you who don't know, Mufasa has a rather, shall we say, unique insight into the operation of Disney parks and attractions. We are always happy to have his input.

Perhaps sometime in the future we should discuss the calculation of those standby wait times, a source of irritation and frustration to me.

[Mufasa]

Just for reference on the subject of paying for Fastpass- at least at Disneyland Paris there were experiments with a paid VIP Fastpass option for resort guests.

There actually are several enhanced fastpass options at the Paris resort for those staying on-site (in addition to the free fastpass option for all park guests):

First, there is a Disneyland Hotel Bonus Fastpass- for all guests staying at the Disneyland hotel there is a single-use fastpass that can be used during a guest stay for any fastpass attraction (one per guest per paid night stay)- there also are usually some restrictions (for example valid all day except between 1-4pm)

Then there is the VIP Fastpass- this is an unlimited, multiple-use fastpass that has the dates of your stay on the ticket itself and is given to guests (one per guest per stay) in either the Castle Club or a suite at one of the resort hotels.

Finally, in 2009 at both Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong there were tests of a Premium Fastpass- this basically was the same VIP Fastpass option above sold to all hotel guests (through hotel concierge) at a pretty steep premium- for Paris when it debuted it was somewhere around 80+ Euro per person/per day and also was capped at a maximum of 160 per day if memory serves.

Also, interesting to note that Paris very strictly enforces fastpass return windows and the return windows are only 30 minutes.

The idea of an enhanced fastpass for the domestic parks was available at Disneyland for about 5 years (from about 2002 to 2007)- if you booked a travel package with admission via AAA for a Disneyland resort hotel then you could get an "unlimited" enhanced fastpass option. It was unlimited in the sense that you could hold multiple fastpasses at the same time (so if you grabbed a fastpass for Space Mountain you didn't have to wait to grab one for Indiana Jones and could get one immediately but it didn't mean you could just hop into any fastpass line over and over)

[BrerGnat]

The idea of an enhanced fastpass for the domestic parks was available at Disneyland for about 5 years (from about 2002 to 2007)- if you booked a travel package with admission via AAA for a Disneyland resort hotel then you could get an "unlimited" enhanced fastpass option. It was unlimited in the sense that you could hold multiple fastpasses at the same time (so if you grabbed a fastpass for Space Mountain you didn't have to wait to grab one for Indiana Jones and could get one immediately but it didn't mean you could just hop into any fastpass line over and over)

Last year, when Star Tours II and Little Mermaid opened, the hotels of the Disneyland Resort were offering something similar. Each peson staying in the room would get 2 Fastpasses that were good on ANY ride, ANY time during the stay. The reasoning was that trying to ride either of these two rides, in particular, was almost IMPOSSIBLE in the first couple months. I know, because I tried for a long time to be able to actually do it. In fact, DH rode Star Tours only after I went to the park early on a weekday morning. I got to the FP machine, literally, 15 minutes after park opening, and the "FP return time" was 8:55-9:55pm! I went home, and DH returned to the park that night after work to ride. Seriously. Stand by lines for STII were in the 4-5 hour range consistently for weeks!

The Disneyland hotels are currently still offering this "perk". Last time I checked prices online, it was listed as a "special offer" for hotel bookings. We are looking to go either this summer or fall, and with Carsland opening up, this sort of offer will be a MUST. It's a great incentive for people to stay on property, which is harder for Disney to accomplish over there than in Florida.

So, in essence, the FP system is already being used to lure people to choose a Disney property, at least in California.

[paragon]

At first its going to be a little chaotic at the return gate I'm sure, but probably not as bad as we are fearing- How many people in reality, actually do know that they have been allowing returns at any time after the FP anyway? I don't think the numbers are that large, are they?
As to "what happens if a ride breaks down"-I imagine, that just like when any other ride breaks down and you are on it, they willl issue another fastpass for you-that would make sense.
I travel with a group of six, four adults, and two children, I generally make all the arrangements, ADRs, shows, daily plans, and I have yet, to run into any issues with missing a window. With all of the new technology, and electronic wait time apps its actually quite easy to plan your way around the parks.. The FP system worked initially, when they enforced the time frames, and it slipped away, so I don't really see a huge issue with this.

[SBETigg]

At first its going to be a little chaotic at the return gate I'm sure, but probably not as bad as we are fearing- How many people in reality, actually do know that they have been allowing returns at any time after the FP anyway? I don't think the numbers are that large, are they?

I think we might be surprised by the number of people who did know that you could show up past your time window to use Fastpass. Now that there are so many Disney dedicated websites and planning forums, I would expect a good number of visitors to know that this was an option by now, enough to have possibly started impacting the system's efficiency.

[Ian]

Finally, another wrinkle. The Attractions managers can "tweak" the distribution rate and time. They can set the system to distribute more or less than the 80%.

So this is precisely what I was talking about when I said that I felt like they were handing out too many FP's at TSM.

Since it's now known that managers can alter the amount of FP's distributed for a given attraction, then I'll stand by my original comment. I suspect the managers responsible for TSM are giving out more FP's than they really should for that attraction. It's the only way I can think of to explain why that FP line is always so long.

[MOJoe]

I think we might be surprised by the number of people who did know that you could show up past your time window to use Fastpass. Now that there are so many Disney dedicated websites and planning forums, I would expect a good number of visitors to know that this was an option by now, enough to have possibly started impacting the system's efficiency.

I think this comment gets to the heart of the matter. Enforcing FP return times is all about management. It makes running an attraction much easier if you know in advance exactly how many people will show up in a given hour, plus or minus 20%.
Allowing people the luxury of returning any time after their FP becomes valid alters the equation just enough that there can be shorter or longer wait times. If you are striving for efficiency, say with staffing, this practice does not help.
The problem is that this practice was not only tolerated, but seemingly encouraged by management. Anytime i offered "expired" fastpasses to a CM, i always got a smile and a wave. Never a, "Sorry sir. Please enter the standby line." You didn't have to visit any website to learn that you could go on your merry way and come back any time it suited you. And frankly i loved it.
But if that policy is soon to be dead, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth at the FP return gate. I'll know and follow the "new rule". But i feel sorry for the many people who were taught it was OK to ignore the window, only to be told that Now it is otherwise.

[disneynarula]

Does this mean I can't use my Rock and Roller Coaster FP that I just found from 2009 when we go next year?

[disneynarula]

I just spent an hour reading all the posts in this thread. Holy Cow! I had no idea this was such a hot button issue. Have I used a FP after the expiration time? Yes I have. Did I take a FP with a 6-7 window knowing I had a 6:00 ADR? Yea I did. It seems like a lot of people on the boards here knew you could and worked it into their touring plan. I know I did. It was a great way to work the system. I never got a second glance from trying to use an expired FP so I figured it wasn't a big deal. I guess it will just require more planning now. If I have an ADR at 6:00 and I see that the return window for a FP is between 6 and 7 then I won't take a FP. I'll have to use the standby line or just skip it. It's the way FP was designed to work initially.

If it makes lines shorter than that makes life easier in the long run, right? Maybe it will! Yay!

I am just glad I won't be there for the initial implementation of this program. I feel bad for the CM that are going to have to deal with some of the people who will be so sure that they are the exception to the policy. I hope I'm never in line behind cranky people with expired FPs.

I am sure they have a reason for it. I can't imagine the CEOs of WDW sit around looking for ways to "stick it" to their guests.

I am also not sure how this will make more money for Disney. If anything it seems like it will cost more in the beginning to staff a ride more to enforce it.

[DizneyRox]

I am also not sure how this will make more money for Disney. If anything it seems like it will cost more in the beginning to staff a ride more to enforce it.

It's not so much making money, but saving money. Both add to the bottom line, but are achieved differently.

Imagine that Disney doesn't need 5 extra people to staff the ride because they know they won't have a deluge of people close to closing they have to accommodate. Maybe only one person to direct guests away. That's 4 people Disney can send home or have do other things.

[MrPeetrie]

So this is precisely what I was talking about when I said that I felt like they were handing out too many FP's at TSM.

Since it's now known that managers can alter the amount of FP's distributed for a given attraction, then I'll stand by my original comment. I suspect the managers responsible for TSM are giving out more FP's than they really should for that attraction. It's the only way I can think of to explain why that FP line is always so long.

We got to ride Toy Story Mania for the first time last October. We had read so much about it and were so excited to ride it. From boards like InterCOT, we knew to get our FPs immediately upon arrival. Once in Hollywood Studios, I went straight to TSM for FastPasses, while family went to Starring Rolls for breakfast. The FP return time was already at 5:40 p.m. When our return time arrived, we got in the FastPass line and began waiting.

After about 20 minutes, my wife said, "You got us in the wrong line. This must be stand-by."

I figured she was right. I thought we had somehow crossed over into the wrong line somewhere. But not soon after, a CM collected our FastPasses so we were in the correct line. It was just very long.

[brivers222]

I never knew coming back after the fact was an option (until our KTTK guide told us that in December).... So for me this is an enforcement of a policy that I thought already existed... No harm no foul for me on this one!

[Butters]

This change can not happen fast enough... when we were just at MK last week every night the FP line for JC was over 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure this is due to people saving their FP's until the end of the day, as the line was not like this in the early part of the day.

This was also the case for SpM too...

[badkitty]

This change can not happen fast enough... when we were just at MK last week every night the FP line for JC was over 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure this is due to people saving their FP's until the end of the day, as the line was not like this in the early part of the day.

This was also the case for SpM too...

I have to wonder though if the late returnees are significantly altering the fastpass queue. The number of folks who save fastpasses I think is rather small considering how many are distributed and the people returning late would be spread out throughout the day. There are also those guests who don't use their fastpasses at all. I have been to MK many times at night and practically walked right on during my fastpass window.

[waymickey]

I don't like the idea of paying for fast passes. The six flags where I live does just that and it causes the standby lines to be much longer becasue most people are not willing to pay to "ride a ride" after paying an admission to the park. They give a fastpass electronic type handheld and the charge is for the number of people in the party. It cost up to 70$ for a party of 3. They get no wait time windows, when they want to ride a ride they go to the fast pass line and have the machine scanned and on they go. I have never paid for it so I am not sure if there any little rules about how times they can ride or anything else. But it is not a help for keeping lines moving on any ride it is just a luxury for those willing to pay.

[Aurora]

I don't like the idea of paying for fast passes. The six flags where I live does just that and it causes the standby lines to be much longer becasue most people are not willing to pay to "ride a ride" after paying an admission to the park. ... They get no wait time windows, when they want to ride a ride they go to the fast pass line and have the machine scanned and on they go. I have never paid for it so I am not sure if there any little rules about how times they can ride or anything else.

Six Flags actually has a multi-tiered express pass system (FlashPass) -- regular, gold and platinum. The regular works similarly to Disney's FastPass, where you still have to wait the same amount of time you would have if you were in the stand-by line, except you don't have to be in line. The gold reduces wait times, and you can ride twice in a row with the platinum. All three are sold in limited quantites, and they do run out during the day.

I never knew coming back after the fact was an option (until our KTTK guide told us that in December).... So for me this is an enforcement of a policy that I thought already existed... No harm no foul for me on this one!

Me neither! I was always afraid that if we didn't show up, we would be given the naughty treatment.

Perhaps sometime in the future we should discuss the calculation of those standby wait times, a source of irritation and frustration to me.

Boy, did we experience this frustration in June last year! We finally just eyeballed the lines we could and tried to figure out the wait times ourselves. And at the beginning of the Haunted Mansion queue, we were handed one of those red cards that are supposed to help calculate wait times. But we reached the front of the line, we tried to give the card to THREE different CMs -- they kept directing us to another person, and no one would take it!

[Stu29573]

Boy, did we experience this frustration in June last year! We finally just eyeballed the lines we could and tried to figure out the wait times ourselves. And at the beginning of the Haunted Mansion queue, we were handed one of those red cards that are supposed to help calculate wait times. But we reached the front of the line, we tried to give the card to THREE different CMs -- they kept directing us to another person, and no one would take it!

Lol. It has actually gotten to be a joke with with wife about how many times I get handed those cards. I guess I look "reliable" or something. But , yes, I can remember several times when CM's looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears when I tried to give them the card. Maybe I should have just kept them and sold them on Ebay!

[ronandjulie]

We go to Universal, Busch Gardens and Sea World all of the time. We ALWAYS pay to get the Express Pass or Quick Queue. We love never having to wait in long lines and not having to wait to get a fastpass and return in a certain time frame. Sure, it costs quite a bit, but if you're willing and able to afford it, it is FANTASTIC!!!! I cannot wait rof WDW to offer this pay system! Face it. Some families come to WDW and stay in luxury while others roll pennies for years just to get here. Both familes have a great time. It would be nice to offer this added perk to those who can and are willing to pay for it.