Fastpass Changes In March

[DizneyRox]

Actually, according to the operating guides posted to the net a few years back, allowing guests back after the window WAS allowed. It was not supposed to be advertised, but it was acceptable. I don't recall there being allowed exceptions vs non allowed situations. Just tha if a guest pressed it, allow them through.

So, cheating, scamming, etc isn't accurate at all from my view from the cheap seats... Is it being abused? I'm sure, and that would explain the official policy change.

[BrerGnat]

The back of every FP ticket ALSO says:

"Early arrivals NOT permitted."

But it does NOT say:

"Late arrivals not permitted."

This basically opens it up to be used beyond the end time of the FP.

Like many others, I've had more than one CM tell me that it was fine to use a FP after the window expired.

No one has been cheating or scamming the system. The system allowed for late arrivals.

The ONLY reason they are enforcing this now is that they need it to work precisely for what is coming down the pipeline. That's it.

[Melanie]

The back of every FP ticket ALSO says:

"Early arrivals NOT permitted."

But it does NOT say:

"Late arrivals not permitted."

This basically opens it up to be used beyond the end time of the FP.

Like many others, I've had more than one CM tell me that it was fine to use a FP after the window expired.

No one has been cheating or scamming the system. The system allowed for late arrivals.

The ONLY reason they are enforcing this now is that they need it to work precisely for what is coming down the pipeline. That's it.

I even want to relay an experience I had one time at Animal Kingdom a few years back. I remember vividly standing on the bridge out to Camp Minnie Mickey with my son, and we were discussing returning for our Everest FP, when a custodial CM working nearby overheard and volunteered the information that we could use it anytime after the opening time for the rest of the day. Although we knew that, I thanked her and we went on our merry way.

[AgentC]

The back of every FP ticket ALSO says:

"Early arrivals NOT permitted."

But it does NOT say:

"Late arrivals not permitted."

This basically opens it up to be used beyond the end time of the FP.

Like many others, I've had more than one CM tell me that it was fine to use a FP after the window expired.

No one has been cheating or scamming the system. The system allowed for late arrivals.

The ONLY reason they are enforcing this now is that they need it to work precisely for what is coming down the pipeline. That's it.

Last October we were at DHS at opening and they actually announced that Fast Passes could be used after the time printed. My husband remarked on it because after all our trips he had never realized that you could use your FP late.

I am sure some people took advantage. Whenever there is a loophole, some people will.

I agree with Natalie. For the most part it was accepted. Now it is not. Some people will be happy, some will be sad. We'll all get used it and life at WDW will continue.

[Jared]

Whether this practice was allowed is essentially irrelevant in this discussion, though. The Fastpass system as designed works better for everyone when people adhere to their windows. I think we all can agree with that. Just because Disney allowed latecomers doesn't mean it was an ideal. It was tolerated to prevent angry guests and headaches for Cast Members. This little unadvertised perk has been exploited and abused, so people now stockpile Fastpasses and use them all at the end of the day.

Sure, XPass is probably the genesis for this change, but it seems to make sense to me.

[TracyL]

WOW there is a lot of passion about this topic.

Favorite post in all 14 pages was the reference to "first world problems". Amen.

Yes, FP is a perk and it is free. Adjusted for inflation, tickets were not any cheaper before FP. This is a fine, optional, nice-to-have extra that you can choose to use, or not, as suits your time and your style.

There are times of day when nearly every ride that has a FP has a standby line that is manageable (TSM being the possible exception). If it's that important to you to get on a particular attraction, either go standby, or make your day work around your FP window.

I agree with posters who have suggested extending the window, perhaps to 90 minutes or 2 hours -- I suspect that would have a negligible effect on lines and would solve the vast majority of problems that commonly cause people to return late (conflicting dining, etc.) It's also a lot harder to argue with the CM that you couldn't make it during a 2 hour window vs. a 1 hour window. This would seem like a reasonable compromise.

When I have been on rides that had FP and broke down, often someone will be at the exit handing out "super FP" tickets good for the remainder of the day -- sometimes good not only for that ride but for any single ride you'd want to go on. I'm sure that type of thing will continue.

The notion that you can't live without FP is just silly. Yes, they make the day easier and more fun, especially with kids. But WDW existed and flourished for decades without any such system, so the existence of any such system, even one that only sort of works, is still a net improvement.

[DizneyFreak2002]

The back of every FP ticket ALSO says:

"Early arrivals NOT permitted."

But it does NOT say:

"Late arrivals not permitted."

This basically opens it up to be used beyond the end time of the FP.

Like many others, I've had more than one CM tell me that it was fine to use a FP after the window expired.

No one has been cheating or scamming the system. The system allowed for late arrivals.

The ONLY reason they are enforcing this now is that they need it to work precisely for what is coming down the pipeline. That's it.

But the ticket does not say "Late Arrivals ARE permitted..."

That pesky word, BETWEEN, negates the notion that because it isn't printed, late arrivals are ok... It was a calculated decision by Disney management to allow people to arrive late... And it backfired to the point where FP was abused...

Let me ask you in this scenario: You receive an invitation for a dinner... Your invitation states "Arrive anytime between 5:00 PM and 6:00 P.M." and in small fine print, the "no early arrivals please..." Do you think it is ok for you to arrive at 7:00PM and expect to be seated for dinner which will cause someone to dine later than expected while you take their space even though you were late and they were on time???? Is it right that you get to show up late and get seated before some who didn't have a set time but got there earlier than you, who arrived later than the time you were told to??? According to you, yes because the the fine print didn't say "No Late Arrivals please..." yet, it does clearly state when you are to arrive: BETWEEN 5:00 and 6:00...

No one is denying that Disney allowed late returners... We all know they did... Disney created the monster...

[DisneyGiant]

But the ticket does not say "Late Arrivals ARE permitted..."

That pesky word, BETWEEN, negates the notion that because it isn't printed, late arrivals are ok... It was a calculated decision by Disney management to allow people to arrive late... And it backfired to the point where FP was abused...

Where is the evidence that it was "abused." All I have read is that Disney is enforcing it for the next generation. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the system is changing because of "abuse." As one who frequency went after the time expiration (because a CM first suggested it) - I never saw any kind of delay because of extra people in the Fast Pass line.

Let me ask you in this scenario: You receive an invitation for a dinner... Your invitation states "Arrive anytime between 5:00 PM and 6:00 P.M." and in small fine print, the "no early arrivals please..." Do you think it is ok for you to arrive at 7:00PM and expect to be seated for dinner which will cause someone to dine later than expected while you take their space even though you were late and they were on time???? Is it right that you get to show up late and get seated before some who didn't have a set time but got there earlier than you, who arrived later than the time you were told to??? According to you, yes because the the fine print didn't say "No Late Arrivals please..." yet, it does clearly state when you are to arrive: BETWEEN 5:00 and 6:00...

Sorry - can't follow this analogy - because no chef in their right mind would issue an invitation like this - its apples and oranges.....

No one is denying that Disney allowed late returners... We all know they did... Disney created the monster...

I am not convinced that there was a "monster."

What I see is two different camps with opposing views that are sticking to those views. I haven't seen anyone's mind changed or swayed......

We can be called "cheaters" or lol "law-breakers" but - from my POV - we are\park guests using a system the way that Disney allowed us to.

Going forward - I will be following the new system, guided by CM's in the park. I only hope that I don't have to choose my "rides" 180 days out!

[Jared]

I never saw any kind of delay because of extra people in the Fast Pass line.

Have you asked all those people waiting in the standby line about that? To compensate for the influx of extra Fastpass-holders, the Cast Members have had to skew the ratio of Fastpass riders versus standby riders at certain times during the day. At some attractions, the cast is instructed to essentially empty the Fastpass line before allowing any standby guests in. That's why Space Mountain will often have a 90-minute wait, for instance, but there are seemingly very few people actually waiting inside the building.

Latecomers do effect the Fastpass system. It's a shame that the Cast Members started recommending a practice that was supposed to be an unadvertised perk. Of course, it's impossible to keep many secrets these days with the rise of the Internet.

That said, I don't think latecomers are "cheating," necessarily. They didn't break any rules. The rules were the problem, not the guests using them to their advantage.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Where is the evidence that it was "abused." All I have read is that Disney is enforcing it for the next generation. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the system is changing because of "abuse." As one who frequency went after the time expiration (because a CM first suggested it) - I never saw any kind of delay because of extra people in the Fast Pass line.

Anytime a system is used in a way it wasn't designed for, that is an abuse of the system... FP wasn't designed for people to use later than their window...

FP is a reservation for a ride time... You are told to return between a certain window for your ride, which is reserved for this time... If you show up later than your return window, you are now pushing people further back in the line... You ride is not reserved for the later time, but for the earlier time...

Example: You get a FP for Splash Mountain and your return window is 2:00 PM to 3:00 PM and 160 of these FPs are given out... I am making up numbers here as a hypothetical... You decide to show up at 5:30 PM with your party made up of 4 people... 160 other people got FPs for the 4:00 to 5:00 window... They all return during their window, but your party, and say 10 other people, decide to whow up at 5:30, later than your windows... Now the FP queue increased by 14 extra people, people who should have been there earlier, thus causing standby to be delayed... Again, these numbers are hypothetical, but it doesn't mean the point is invalid...

Now with real numbers: We have already been told there is an 80/20 FP to SB ratio... Adding any later comers to the FP queue negatively affects standby...Whether it is 5 minutes or 20 minutes, it is still a longer than anticipated wait... I will actually go a step further and say the FP system in general has had a negative affect on standby lines, allowing people to return later than their window only made things worse...

Sorry - can't follow this analogy - because no chef in their right mind would issue an invitation like this - its apples and oranges.....

It was hypothetical and not meant to be based in something that would happen in real life or not.. It was meant to compare wording... If you want real life, then ok.. You make a dinner reservation for 7:00 at a fancy restaurant... The person taking your reservation tells you to show up between 6:30 and 7:00 but fails to say NO LATE ARRIVALS... Does that mean you can show up at 8:30 expecting to be seated when your window was 6:30 to 7:00???

[ronandjulie]

My favorite part of the whole FP system is the people who show up 30 minutes early for their FP window and wait for it while the SB line is only 20 minutes. The FP system is a joke anyway. The amount of time you "save" with a FP is more than likely equally divided up among all of the other lines you waited in.

[DisneyGiant]

Anytime a system is used in a way it wasn't designed for, that is an abuse of the system... FP wasn't designed for people to use later than their window...

FP is a reservation for a ride time... You are told to return between a certain window for your ride, which is reserved for this time... If you show up later than your return window, you are now pushing people further back in the line... You ride is not reserved for the later time, but for the earlier time...

Example: You get a FP for Splash Mountain and your return window is 2:00 PM to 3:00 PM and 160 of these FPs are given out... I am making up numbers here as a hypothetical... You decide to show up at 5:30 PM with your party made up of 4 people... 160 other people got FPs for the 4:00 to 5:00 window... They all return during their window, but your party, and say 10 other people, decide to whow up at 5:30, later than your windows... Now the FP queue increased by 14 extra people, people who should have been there earlier, thus causing standby to be delayed... Again, these numbers are hypothetical, but it doesn't mean the point is invalid...

Now with real numbers: We have already been told there is an 80/20 FP to SB ratio... Adding any later comers to the FP queue negatively affects standby...Whether it is 5 minutes or 20 minutes, it is still a longer than anticipated wait... I will actually go a step further and say the FP system in general has had a negative affect on standby lines, allowing people to return later than their window only made things worse...

Ok - I should re-phrase. With the exception of Toy Story Mania (as that is really an exception) - I, personally, have not experienced any ill effects while standing in the standby line (granted I refused to stand in the stand-by line if its over 45 minutes long).

I hear what you're saying - I just don't agree that people coming back later than the time stamped affects the stand-by line that significantly. We'll just have to agree to disagree......

It was hypothetical and not meant to be based in something that would happen in real life or not.. It was meant to compare wording... If you want real life, then ok.. You make a dinner reservation for 7:00 at a fancy restaurant... The person taking your reservation tells you to show up between 6:30 and 7:00 but fails to say NO LATE ARRIVALS... Does that mean you can show up at 8:30 expecting to be seated when your window was 6:30 to 7:00???

Funny you should mention this - but that did happen to us once at the Whispering Canyon Cafe. We had allowed an hour to go over using the water transportation from the Contemporary to the Wilderness Lodge. The boat came 30 minutes later - only problem was, it wasn't a boat that could fit an ECV (Mom had to use it).

They told us that they would radio for another boat. So half of us took that boat over, while the other half waited with Mom. They never did radio for that other boat so, Mom & the rest were stuck on that dock for another hour.

Half our party was at the Wildnerness Lodge. I explained to the CM what was occurring - and wouldn't you know it - they allowed us to eat at the next available table when our whole party finally reached the resort. It was over an hour late. I was pleasantly surprised that they fit us in. I had half expected to hear that since we were so late, we lost the opportunity.

So - Disney even makes exceptions on the ADR times as well.

[DisneyGiant]

My favorite part of the whole FP system is the people who show up 30 minutes early for their FP window and wait for it while the SB line is only 20 minutes. The FP system is a joke anyway. The amount of time you "save" with a FP is more than likely equally divided up among all of the other lines you waited in.

I kind of agree with this in some instances. Soarin' comes to mind - that Fast Pass line is always sooooooo slow. We usually come back at the assigned time there - and I swear that line is usually 20-30 minutes long!

My other favorite is seeing people in FP lines - like Buzz Lightyear or Stitch - really? I wouldn't waste a FP on either of those attractions!

Or for a while - Star Tours - it would advertise a 10 minute wait - which was really 0 minutes - and people were getting fast passes......... Now maybe that the attraction is updated they might be truly needed......

[DizneyFreak2002]

Ok - I should re-phrase. With the exception of Toy Story Mania (as that is really an exception) - I, personally, have not experienced any ill effects while standing in the standby line (granted I refused to stand in the stand-by line if its over 45 minutes long).

I hear what you're saying - I just don't agree that people coming back later than the time stamped affects the stand-by line that significantly. We'll just have to agree to disagree......

I don't like when people use TSMM as an example because it has HORRIBLE capacity... But Space Mountain, like Jared pointed out, is a great example...

But, it's fine, you never experienced it, so therefore you don't think it happened.. I never had a CM encourage me to arrive late to FP nor have I ever heard a CM ever encourage late FP arrivals, so therefore, I don't think this ever happened either, despite what people say...

Funny you should mention this - but that did happen to us once at the Whispering Canyon Cafe. We had allowed an hour to go over using the water transportation from the Contemporary to the Wilderness Lodge. The boat came 30 minutes later - only problem was, it wasn't a boat that could fit an ECV (Mom had to use it).

They told us that they would radio for another boat. So half of us took that boat over, while the other half waited with Mom. They never did radio for that other boat so, Mom & the rest were stuck on that dock for another hour.

Half our party was at the Wildnerness Lodge. I explained to the CM what was occurring - and wouldn't you know it - they allowed us to eat at the next available table when our whole party finally reached the resort. It was over an hour late. I was pleasantly surprised that they fit us in. I had half expected to hear that since we were so late, we lost the opportunity.

So - Disney even makes exceptions on the ADR times as well.

That's great, has happened to me too arriving late at an ADR due to Disney's fault... But that isn't the point.. again, it had to do with WORDS, not experiences... Natalie claims that the FP ticket doesn't say NO LATE ARRIVALS... And that because the ticket doesn't have those words printed on it, that arriving late is OK... When the ticket clearly states BETWEEN... THAT is what I was trying to point out with my examples... Not that exceptions are made cause we know they always are, and most of us have probably been beneficiaries of an exception at one point...

[AmandaChan]

Let me just say, using it later than the time or not, I am happy that WDW cares enough about its guests to even try to implement a system where you do not have to wait two hours in a line to ride BTMR on a busy day. What a great system! We should be thankful!

[AmandaChan]

My favorite part of the whole FP system is the people who show up 30 minutes early for their FP window and wait for it while the SB line is only 20 minutes. The FP system is a joke anyway. The amount of time you "save" with a FP is more than likely equally divided up among all of the other lines you waited in.

I disagree that the FP system is a joke. I think they really do work hard at maintaining the system and I believe it does benefit a lot of people. Like with Soarin', yeah you end up waiting about 20 or so minutes, but the standby line is halfway to the opening and that is a LONG line. I think I would rather wait 20 minutes (which is a heck of a good wait time for that big of an attraction) than the ... other line? That other line is just crazy sometimes.

And with attractions like Peter Pan or something, if you don't show up right at let in time on the FP and wait a little longer (not by the entrance, but doing something different that usually does not have a long wait like IASM), you walk right onto that ride when there is a 45 minute wait for it. And I have waited in the 45 minute line before. It stinks.

[ChipNDale79]

Have you asked all those people waiting in the standby line about that? To compensate for the influx of extra Fastpass-holders, the Cast Members have had to skew the ratio of Fastpass riders versus standby riders at certain times during the day. At some attractions, the cast is instructed to essentially empty the Fastpass line before allowing any standby guests in. That's why Space Mountain will often have a 90-minute wait, for instance, but there are seemingly very few people actually waiting inside the building.


Latecomers do effect the Fastpass system. It's a shame that the Cast Members started recommending a practice that was supposed to be an unadvertised perk. Of course, it's impossible to keep many secrets these days with the rise of the Internet.

That said, I don't think latecomers are "cheating," necessarily. They didn't break any rules. The rules were the problem, not the guests using them to their advantage.

To be fair, you know how long the line is going to be before you get in it. So when I hear people complain in a standby line or someone in my party complains about how long we have been waiting in line, it irks me. Before you got in line you saw the wait time, it's pretty accurate most of the time.

The only time I've ever got annoyed by too many people coming back after fast pass expiration times was during Christmas on Space Mountain, they were letting in 2 people in standby for every 15 in fast pass. I was annoyed, but you know what, the wait time said 2.5 hours before we got in line, but we were off the ride in 2 hours.

In this case, being the busiest time of the year, I do think Disney gave out way too many fast passes, but I felt like this was a very rare occurrence.

Also, I think what people are missing here is that because of the way people were using Fast Passes, it actually made the standby lines shorter during the earlier part of the days.

I bet that you'll find that on any given day after this is enforced you'll find just as many people were able to ride an attraction as when they did before they enforced the window. You'll have longer standby times in the morning and shorter in the evenings.

[Ian]

Okay guys ... after 14 pages and over 270 responses, I think we've said just about all that can be said on this topic. We're getting into a lot of back-and-forth now that's best taken offline if the debate is to continue.

Thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts, but I think it's time to close this one out.