Epcot bashers...I don't understand the nostalgia

[azcavalier]

So, I'm reading "The Epcot Explorer's Encyclopedia", and it describes all of the attractions that have ever been at Epcot, and all the changes that have taken place.

I've got to say, all those of you who claim that Epcot is going downhill, who miss Horizons and World of Motion...I don't see it. Granted, I never experienced those attractions. But from what i've read, they were *very* similar to Spaceship Earth. They used Omni-movers to take you through various scenes filled with animatronics and a narrator explaining the history of travel, or the possibilities of the future.

I'm sure that when they came out, they were interesting to ride on....Spaceship Earth is one of my favorites, even after the refurbs. But the one omnimover ride with audio-animatronics is enough. I like the changes that have been made.

I do wish I could have seen the Wonders of Life pavilion in its heyday.

[Stu29573]

Yes, they were based on similar technology, but they were so much more than that. The stories were different and, most importantly, were very very optimistic about our future. I think that's what I miss most, that good feeling that everything is going to be ok.
As far as being the same ride systems (they actually weren't but they were close) it's kind of like saying "I don't read books because I read one once and they all work the same way, what with the turning pages and all..."

[magicofdisney]

Don't you need a personal connection to even have nostalgia?

[Buttercup]

Well, I'm not an "Epcot Basher" .
I really loved Epcot as a kid with all the omnimover rides like World of Motion and Horizons. And I'm sad that they're gone because yes, they were a part of my childhood experience with Epcot.

But I don't think you can say that they were all the "same". It's like saying Pirates of the Caribbean and It's a Small World are the "same" because they both are boat rides that float past scenes. Or that Winnie The Pooh and Snow White are the "same" because they're both themed cars rolling around on a track. WOM, Horizons and SE all had similar ride cars, yes, but the stories were different and they were all themed quite differently.
WOM featured very elaborate scenes with multiple AA's, it had a pretty impressive (for the era) "speed tunnel", and a very catchy soundtrack!
Horizons had quite elaborate sets as well, like underwater, space, desert, etc. and a catchy themesong too. You also got to choose your own ending to the ride which was unheard of at the time, certainly it wasn't a part of Spaceship Earth back then.

So they were all different. And yes, I miss them. That doesn't mean I don't love Epcot nowadays too. I will always hold a special spot in my memories for World of Motion and Horizons because they remind me of my childhood. And I wish they were still there so I could share those with my kids too. But I appreciate the new attractions Epcot has also brought in. In a perfect world, the park would have BOTH!

[Goes4FastPass]

Both Horizons and World of Motion were replaced with attractions that are better than what they replaced.

Wonders of Life had trouble finding its way (and retaining a sponsor). Cranium Command was swell but would need a periodic video refresh. Hans and Franz here to pump-you-up was already dated as the area closed. Body Wars was a let’s not and say we did repeat of Star Tours and All About Me was the imagineer’s attempt to do a Disney G rated theme park children’s sex ed attraction – which is as difficult as explaining if Mickey is a mouse and Pluto is a dog then what’s Goofy?

I like EPCOT and I look forward to E-ticket attractions being added or updated in Imagination and Energy so they have their time of people advising visitors planning a trip, “As soon as the gate opens, dash to the Imagination pavilion and get a FastPass for…”

I’d like to see EPCOT have more rides. There’s no animatronic person waving his arms and explaining something attraction that thrills my grandson like BTMRR does.

[MNNHFLTX]

Both Horizons and World of Motion were replaced with attractions that are better than what they replaced.

I don't know that I agree that what replaced these attractions is better--different, certainly, but all good in their own way. I do love Mission: Space but Horizons was special too. And while Test Track has a few thrills, World of Motion was more educational and interesting (to me).

But I'm not bashing Epcot, it's my favorite park! Change is inevitable, even at WDW.

[magicgal]

To me it is exactly the nostalgic part of it that I miss. I experienced Epcot when I was younger and never forgot those original Epcot Center experiences. Plus, it was classic to me, so that is why I miss the old Epcot dearly. I do love Soarin and Test Track..so, it is always nice to welcome some great new attractions. Too bad we couldn't just have them all!

[JasonH]

To me, this is what I would say is the best explanation as far as any "bashing" of Epcot goes. In all actuality, it's not bashing against Epcot itself. It is a wonderful theme park, 2 distinct sections to it, lots of great attractions and theming (let's face it, they brought in actual tile-workers from Morocco to help build the pavilion to get that one as realistic as possible). And yes, we truly do miss the old attractions, but for a very good reason. That reason is the fact of why we bash Epcot.....it's lost focus of what Epcot was originally but mostly in regards to Future World.

Future World was all about the future and showcasing the newest technologies that are out there now, but also what could be within our future. And that's what the newest attractions and refurbs have lost sight of. Yes, Test Track, Mission:Space and Soarin' are probably the most popular attractions they have there, but only Mission:Space comes the closest into what Future World is supposed to be about (I mean, we haven't sent people to Mars yet, so that's definitely in the future). Spaceship Earth is supposed to be about communication but look at the journey on the way back down to ground level, that is most certainly NOT about communication. Soarin', although a great attraction and I do love it, it needs to be housed elsewhere other than The Land pavilion which is about how we grow foods now and looking into future ways to do it and also it's about land and animal conservation. Where does Soarin' fit into that kind of picture? And DON'T get me started on JII and how it is now compared to the original! lol

The past attractions offered that focus and truly held on to what Epcot's Future World was to be about. It's just unfortunate that some of it got dated after so many years and the powers that be at Epcot I guess just didn't know the best way to handle changing the attractions so that way it could keep the focus. Sorry so long, so I'll get off my

[texas211]

TestTrack has some great things and may be better. Though I am one of those who question the loss of the theme of future world.
Mission Space? I can only hope it falls into the sink hole one day.

[Buttercup]

JasonH:

I will start the slow clapping now for you. Others will join in.

[Main Street Jim]

Both Horizons and World of Motion were replaced with attractions that are better than what they replaced.

Depends on what your defintion of "better" is.

EPCOT was NOT meant to be an "all-thrills" park, which is why now, JIYIwF, Nemo (don't get me started...), WoL, and UoE all have a hard time now drawing in guests. Today's generation wants it "now, now, now!" They don't have the attention span we used to have as a society. EPCOT as a theme park was originally intended to be educational in a sense.

Horizons? It was meant to be a sequel to one of Walt Disney's greatest personal creations: Carousel of Progress. The technology used in Horizons was *amazing* at the time. It wasn't the traditional Omnimover system. It was the first attraction to use IMAX - which is now being used in Soarin'. World of Motion...ehhh..it *was* pretty cool, especially the Transportarium in the post-show.

Mission: Space and Test Track? I can take 'em or leave 'em - not something we have to do every time we go to the park. But Horizons, WoM, UoE (the original version, don't really care much for the Ellen version), Living Seas...all *great* attractions in my opinion. Oh - and the original JII? Look it up on YouTube (for the full original ride-through). MUCH better than what's there now.

As far as "all Omnimover attractions are the same"? So you rode on Buzz Lightyear. Does that mean you *won't* ride Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, PeopleMover, etc., because "they're all the same Omnimover"?

[azcavalier]

After I posted that yesterday, later I was thinking that I didn't get my point across. Let me try it again.

While the sets in Horizons and World of Motion were different, and the theming was different...it just looks like Epcot had these three big attractions that were all very similar. The attractions that replaced them are all very different. So, while I can understand that the technology at the time was amazing, there just didn't seem to be much variety, which is what we have now. I like that. But this is simply my opinion. I don't like when Disney (or any theme park) takes one attraction and just uses the same technology to make a couple of different attractions in the same park. For example, I hate that in the Magic Kingdom we have Dumbo, the Flying Carpets, and the Astro Orbiters. They're all the same ride! In the same park!

I think of video games...my son is always looking a new video games, and they're all first person shooters. It doesn't matter if it's Gears of War, Medal of Honor, Mass Effect, etc....the characters are different, the bad guys are different, the maps are different, and the scenery is different. But, in the end, you're the main character, trying to negotiate through a lever by blowing people away. It's the same thing, over and over, with nothing new or interesting. When something new does come out, such as Portal, then i'm all for it.

And, yes, you do have to have experienced something to have nostalgia. Touche.

[2Epcot]

I agree with what others have said. Epcot was not meant to be a "thrill rides" park, but more educational. Much of the dislike from many is that Epcot has lost focus from what made it so unique.

My first trip to Epcot was in 1985. I was blown away by the Future World attractions on that first trip. I also enjoyed World Showcase, the CircleVision films, and The American Adventure being my favorites. Epcot is still my favorite WDW park, but it is sad to see what has become of it over the last couple of decades.

The new rides are great, but I would have rather seen them as additions along with updates to the current attractions. Of course sometimes the updates don't go so well. I've never been a fan of Ellen's Energy Adventure, and still prefer the original version of Universe of Energy.

I remember in the early days of EPCOT Center people talked about it being an adult park, and not for kids. As a young person during my first trips in '85 and '88, I loved that it was educational and fun at the same time. Future World did give you a great feeling about the future and the world we live in. Never once did I feel like it would have been better with more thrill rides. I'm glad I got to see EPCOT Center from the beginning.

[PopeCharming]

Perhaps Horizons, World of Motion and Spaceship Earth were technologically similar, but they couldn't have been more different in tone. Spaceship Earth was dramatic and awe-inspiring-- even brooding and moody, in Jeremy Irons version. World of Motion was jocular and light-hearted, filled with visual puns and humorous tableaux. Horizons was heart-warming and visionary-- which balanced fantastical predictions for the future with the very relatable topic of family life that every guest could enjoy.

Here's the difference-- Test Track and Mission: Space are both great rides-- but they are part of a newer Epcot that, for all of its technological prowess, lacks the heart and the vision of the earlier Epcot. the 1980s and 1990s Epcot expounded a particular worldview of humanity growing better, breaking barriers of space and distance, and reaching out towards each other- whether through communication breakthroughs or transportation development, the harnessing of energy, or the power of imagination. It's very much a contemporary of the humanism found in shows like Star Trek: the Next Generation. Today's Epcot lacks that mission and that vision-- you can make the argument that its discrete attractions are superior-- and I can frankly understand why some like Test Track and Mission: Space and Soarin' more, even if I do not. But as a collective whole, the Epcot experience is lacking from what it was 20 years ago.

And that is the crucial difference. A 12-year-old would come off "Test Track" thinking "that was a really fun ride." A 12-year-old would come off of World of Motion, ideally, and think "Gee, I might like to become an inventor."

[BrerGnat]

Well, I think without having experienced these attractions, one cannot really "get it".

I think what I miss about "old Epcot" is that it truly was a place where you could learn in a fun way. I was a young kid in the 80s and Epcot blew my mind! There are things I learned from riding World of Motion that I will never forget. Those scenes are still in my head, and taught me about the history of transportation way before I learned it at school. Horizons was so cool, and honestly, I think it should have stuck around as a tribute to how we viewed the future back then (even though, still, we are not even close to reaching "the future as seen in Horizons"). It could still be relevant, because we are still not learning in underwater classrooms.

The Imagination pavilion used to also be amazing. It was like a Children's Museum at the end. I don't get why they took all those cool exhibits away. We come across them still in kids museums these days and my boys LOVE it. It's sad that it was changed so drastically, when it really didn't need to be.

Communicore was probably the only place that got "dated" too quickly, but it seems like it could have easily been upgraded to remain current without sacrificing its integrity. Unfortunately, they didn't go that way.

Honestly, I still love Epcot, but I really miss how it used to be. I love Test Track and Mission Space; they are fun attractions. However, I feel like you don't get as much out of visiting Epcot as you used to. A lot of the education has gone away, and it was really presented in a fun way, so I don't understand why.

As someone mentioned, without a personal connection, you really can't understand the nostalgia.

[RBrooksC]

Old Epcot was great but as with many things, what we have created in our minds is ALWAYS better than the reality. Everybody looks back upon what was with a misty-eyed fondness.

Mr. Toad is a great example. I loved that ride as a child and I am disappointed it is gone. However, in reality, the ride was rather lame. Blacklight-glowing cardboard cutouts in a rather slow, twisty-track. In my mind, it was fantastic. In reality, Pooh is a far superior ride.

People will always gripe about what was and say, "it isn't what it used to be." Well, I can say this. My son LOVED Epcot as it is today. He is five. It was his favorite park and the one he always wanted to go back and visit.

So, I think the changes they have made has not lessened the appeal of the park, and in many way, has probably increased it.

However, you are always going to have the Horizons people who cry every time they think about it.

[Stu29573]

I don't think the "appeal" of the park has gone down that much, but the "focus and intent" of the park has taken a serious hit.

I think I get upset about it because I have lived through an extreme example of what happens when a park loses focus. I live just minutes from Six Flags Over Texas (I swear I just heard everyone groan) Anyway, when Six Flags was first opened it had a distinct focus; it was a park based on the six countries whose flags had flown over Texas. There were sections of the park dedicated to each country and time period. Employees in those sections wore appropriate costumes and the attractions were themed to the central idea.

In those days Six Flags also produced ground breaking rides, such as the first log ride, the first mine train coaster, and the cave attraction which many have claimed gave Disney the idea for the Small World boats.

However, Six Flags was sold and investors took over with no regard for the original intent of the park. Suddenly there was... well, you know what it is now. One is hard pressed to find anything of historic relevance, or much having to do with Texas at all. More confusingly, other "Six Flag" parks have opened around the country where the name makes no sense whatsoever.

Do I think this will happen to Disney? No, not really. But I think it serves as a great cautionary tale about what CAN happen if one puts other priorities above "focus."

[BrerGnat]

Old Epcot was great but as with many things, what we have created in our minds is ALWAYS better than the reality. Everybody looks back upon what was with a misty-eyed fondness.

Mr. Toad is a great example. I loved that ride as a child and I am disappointed it is gone. However, in reality, the ride was rather lame. Blacklight-glowing cardboard cutouts in a rather slow, twisty-track. In my mind, it was fantastic. In reality, Pooh is a far superior ride.

I don't know about that. Mr. Toad still lives on at Disneyland, and I rode it as recently as a few months ago. I still think it's a great ride, and WAY better than Pooh.

To each his own. But, I honestly have very vivid and lucid recollections of the old Epcot rides, and they really were pretty cool. The animatronics and scenes were elaborate and well done. They were right up there with Pirates of the Caribbean. Classic, well done, Imagineering at its best.

[darthmacho]

With the exception of JIYI, and perhaps a little too much Nemo, I think the changes at Epcot have been improvements. I think Test Track, Mission Space, Turtle Talk, and Soarin' are all great additions. I certainly don't miss Body Wars. At the same time, I respect the nostalgia that people have for Horizons and WoM, despite never having seen these attractions myself. I think WDW could use more "dark rides", and I feel those were two examples of that ride genre that are understandably missed.

We may not all agree, but we all seem to have strong opinions about Epcot.

[Goes4FastPass]

Rides my friends.

I don't need a whole day of thrills but I also don't need a whole day sitting in an omni-mover-whatever and having the movie star narrator sofly intone, "Since the dawn of time...and now, looking to vast expanses of boredom..."