How far can Disney go and keep you coming back?

[Jll3Sonex]

Ian, I think you're hitting the danger zone for Disney perfectly. People are willing to pay for magic, for an experience, if it is an overall feeling throughout their entire trip. But when you start getting dirty rooms, rude CM's, broken rides, fewer unique souveneirs/foods/shows and a general feeling that everything is being "blended" into being one & the same throughout the parks, instead of feeling like you're getting a unique experience in each, then people are going to be less willing to fork out the extra $$.

And I TOTALLY agree with the thought behind what Tekneek said about Disney introducing something as "new, unique, the best thing since sliced bread, look at all we're giving you" and then slowly, piecing it apart until the product a few years later is a mere shadow of what was first offered. It's part of the reason my DH and I have never bought into the DDP or now even DVC... it sounds so good, but then listening to people who bought years ago and now are disgruntled with everything they've lost, it loses it's luster.

That being said, Disney IS still magic, and we'll continue to go as long as our kids love it and it brings us the joy it always has... but it'll probably be a bit less frequent as time goes by, and once the kids are big? I'm sure we'll still visit, esp. when something new opens, but unless Disney puts the bandages on what's bleeding, I'm not sure it will be as big a part of our future as we used to think it would be.

Disney is still magic - but the magic is a bit on the tarnished and unreliable side. The last time we visited (LOVE the sites at Ft Wilderness, BTW) I was struck by a number of things that just didn't quite do it.

We went to the buffet in FtW - and despite the large number of empty tables we saw were told that there were no seats available... and after a quick perusal of the buffet didn't see it as much of a loss. (Maybe there was another buffet line we didn't see, but what was there wasn't worth the price.) It was disappointing, but for the best, because we got one of their family fried chicken dinners, the "Giddyup and Go" - and had enough chicken and leftovers for lunch the next day. Magic had hit - even though it was unexpected.

Other things weren't quite so. The TTC was, for lack of a better term, grubby. Light fixtures had spots of rust (!) and the skylights were dirty. Various rides didn't seem to be working quite right, and all in all things weren't as 'shiny' as they used to be.

Disney used to be AMAZING. Sparkling clean, incredible tech, I loved Future World, Tomorrowland, the whole experience.

But now? It feels kind of worn around the edges - not quite enough cleaning, not quite enough maintenance or paint - and in all honesty the endless parade of shops selling all sorts of Disney stuff doesn't thrill me. Yeah, it's cute stuff - but... meh. That's not what I go to Disney for.

Last big new ride was Soarin'. Before that was Mission:Space - I've ridden that maybe ten, twelve times since it opened. Soarin'? Once was enough. Cute idea, but...

Not everything will please everyone (The SSE refurb... lost something in the translation.) but it seems like they're taking the 'neat' out. Ice Station Cool was neat - the 'Club Cool' is just another store with Beverly.

I still think it's all a good value - but it's good sliding towards iffy, where it used to be good to exceptional. (And for reference, 'iffy' is about where I put Six Flags.)

Maybe they'll change - maybe there's something totally amazing in the pipeline that will revamp everything within 5 years. (Likely not..) But something needs to be done, something needs to change.

[Mickey'sGirl]

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.

So did we. We had often already made some kind of reservation before the first trip was even made!

This year was different though -- we did feel like we were paying more for less (and we were staying on DVC points!) during our trip in May. I was overwhelmed by the poor quality of the food at the restaurants (or our perceived poor quality as the case may be) ... and the huge cost for it (and we had the 20% TiW discount). We had only three meals where we said "Yeah! That was GREAT!" (Those meals were at Kouzzina (TS), The Tangierine Cafe (QS) and Wolfgang Puck's Express(QS)). We felt like we were watching every cent we spent, because the cents were slipping through our fingers faster than ever (and we don't buy souveniers).

Don't get me wrong ... we enjoyed our holiday well enough, but we also felt like perhaps we've had enough of WDW for a while. We've decided to take a break for a couple of years (where in the past we were making 2 or 3 trips per year). We might break down and book an earlier holiday, but as it stands now, we are not so keen.

[Tekneek]

[COLOR="Green"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]My thought is that they should stop offering the discounts, then they can lower the price overall!

Lowering the price is a last resort. It sends all the wrong messages to the business analysts that essentially don't understand what the business is anyway. They get more credit from those analysts for raising the prices on a regular schedule, even if it is negated by discounts offered later in the year (especially when they do it via dining plan and other packages, which are probably not understood by the influential analysts).

[MOJoe]

Wow. I am nearly dumbfounded that this question could generate such a huge thread. Obviously all is not well in WDW. Where there is smoke there must be fire, indeed.

While i haven't been on Intercot as long as some, i can remember when reports of poor customer service were met with a mix of surprise and disbelief. Very rarely were there any "me too's" that added to the thread. So when a pooly designed poll (no offense Mickey91) gets people talking like this, you know the Kool-Aid isn't working like it used to.

For my family, we will continue to visit WDW. Although we took a break this year, stayed in our home state, and had a great trip, it didn't compare to our Disney vacations. We are some of the lucky ones, i suppose. The Disney Magic seems to follow us around when we are there. Using Intercot probably has helped, as a poorly planned Disney trip has the potential to be a real headache. But i digress.

I've never had a bad experience with any CM. In fact, many have gone way beyond the call of duty to make our vacations the best ever. Can't say that i've ever noticed anything being really run down or filthy. And since i run a small business, i am acutely aware that the cost of running a business has increased greatly in the past few years. So price increases everywhere, including WDW, don't automatically equate to corporate greed.

Anyway, maybe the Kool-Aid still works on me. Because i still think as i'm spending my hard earned dollars for a vacation, WDW is the happiest place on earth. Although watching my beloved St. Louis Cardinals at Busch Stadium in the middle of an 8 game winning streak is probably the 2nd happiest place on earth. (Sorry all you Dodgers and Phillies fans!) But while our recent Cardinal vacation was perfect, you just can't count on a victory. The magic can't be found every day. Only in WDW is that possible. Until that is no longer true, we'll keep going back.

[1goofydad]

We returned about a week ago. I have to agree with all points made. We have been going yearly since 1992 and had been noticing a gradual decrease but overall it is still a very magical place. The past few trips we skiped the parks all together and yes only went one day on one trip. we are DVC members, joined in 2005, and enjoy the resorts more than before. The DVC membership has paid for itself.
There have been bad experiences with our stays and Disney does make a very good attempt most of the time and making it up to the guest but not always. One time we were staying at Saratoga, parked unloaded the van, hauled the luggage upstairs and put the room key in, the proceeded to walk in on a family eatting dinner! we lugged everything back down to the van, drove back up front and rechecked in. I think we got an appology but thats it. I have heard this has happened to others. On this past trip we stayed at AKL (trip reports coming soon). We had a 2 bedroom dedicated and that room was occupied also, by ANTS. Yep, every room, master living and 2nd bedroom. They offered to move us. My wife and McMouses wife walked to the new room with a Disney rep. They came back less than pleased. They could hear yelling and screaming from the neighbor next store to the new room and even the Disney rep said no way. So we asked for them to spray the room and gave our cell #. 5 hours later we returned, no note, no message and no call to the cell phone. After about an hour we were told they had come and sprayed, but did not check in or out with the front desk. Well if they did come they are still alive. The pest guy came back again, this time arounfd 1115 at nite and sprayed sugar water to attract the ants and carry the bait back to the nest, and explained it is against policy to spray something that would kill them since a guest was occupying the room and it would take 5 days for the ants to be gone. They did not even vaccum the ants up!. We had not choice but to stay in the room that night and were moved the next afternoon. They issued a credit for the first night stay and had done a few other things but if McMouse and his wife had not gone down to do a face to face with someone, I realy don't think anything above moving to a new room would have been done.

I think if they did not have the free dining and free magical express park tickets would not have to continually go up. The money needs to come from somewhere. Frankly if I could go during the free dining period, I would love to take advantage of that, but due to school and band schedules, we can not take advantage of that. The price of meals is pretty much forcing people to buy the dining plan. Seriously to charge extra because of the time of year is ridiculous. Buffet is like $40 per person including a drink. Ouch! We like to eat out but it is nice to have the full kitchen. We only ate dinner once this trip, all other meals were in room. Instead of the freebies, maybe they should spend some more on the up keep of the parks and resorts. has anyone notice how worn, dirty and fadded the carpet is at Mickey Philharmagic? There is no excuse.

It is more cost effective to stay long and get the free dinning. But who can take off 2 weeks at a time form their job or take the kids out of school?

[PinKy]

We're DVC members - so we'll continue to go..... we only have so much $ to go around though so if prices rise that are out of proportion with our income we will just likely spread out our trips and go less often. (totally agree about all the 'little things' that have been taken away from the parks/packages, etc - I think that is everywhere though - the economy has tanked and times are tough!) As far as CMs go - I dunno - we've had 2 bad experiences (1 awful, 1 just "bad") - I do think that CMs at Disney are still friendlier and more helpful than most hospitality staff at other resorts/parks.

[Dsnygirl]

I agree. But we used to just know we would be planning our next trip before we made it off WDW
property.

We have been the same way, always talking about when we're going back on the flight home. But this last time, and maybe it was b/c it was our longest trip yet, we weren't. We knew how much the trip had cost us (11 days in October) and weren't anxious to make that kind-of dent in our budget again so quickly.

So, we took this year off.

Now, that's not to say I'm not looking at the upcoming F&W Festival info that's coming out and not feeling the pangs - I sure am.

But - between having kids that are now getting too old to pull out of school for anything longer than a long wknd (thus making a longer, summer trip the only option for awhile), the desire to take them (and ourselves) to a lot of other beautiful places around the country and the realization that no matter how we cut it, our Disney trips cut a HUGE hole in our budget, and we're more accepting of the fact that our countdown b/w trips is just going to be longer these days.

Having not been there as many times as many people on the boards here, although I've noticed a decline in the quality of the food and the merchandise, I can honestly say we've still been impressed with our rooms and most of the CM's... all of our recent trips have been sprinkled throughout with the magic that keeps bringing us back.

But -- the bottom line is, there's only so much each family can afford -- and as much as we love the magic, it won't pay the bills, and that stuff has to be taken care of first.

Bummer.

[magicofdisney]

has anyone notice how worn, dirty and fadded the carpet is at Mickey Philharmagic? There is no excuse.

I heard they're getting rid of the cattle ropes so they're using the "path of dirt" as a guide to the show...

[Checkers]

Well, we just returned last evening so my sentiments are fresh in my mind.

We have been going to WDW for about 15 yrs. and joined DVC in 2000. This trip was the most disappointing one we have ever had. Although we met some truly great CMs, we also had some that really made us feel like 2nd class citizens and this coming from someone who thinks the "glass is always half full". I approach each CM with a smile on my face and usually it is just to have a question answered. For example, when asking a CM at DTD if it was possible to renew our APs (they expire on 9/24) while we were down there to take advantage of the 3 mo. extension, you would have thought I was asking for his 1st born! He would do it but he would be breaking the rules and we would have to sign a paper, yada, yada, yada. All he needed to say was no, we would have to wait until 8/24 and renew and that would have been the end of it. Needless to say, we declined and said we would renew with MS when we got home. But he made me feel like I was asking something for nothing. I was so embarrassed and disappointed with his attitude.

We also have noticed the decline in just about everything else, especially the cleanliness of the public restrooms.

I don't want "something to nothing", I just want what I pay for -- quality accommodations, good food selection and some of the "magic" they are selling.

We are going back in Oct. for the F&WF and have a trip scheduled for next March with our family but after that I think we will take a break for awhile especially if these 2 upcoming trips mirror what we just experienced.

Yes, I still love it but it saddens me.

[Tekneek]

It is all well and good for Disney to compare well with similar operations. The problem is how Disney compares to itself. Maybe they just aren't capable of living up to their reputation anymore.

[Victor Kelly]

It is all well and good for Disney to compare well with similar operations. The problem is how Disney compares to itself. Maybe they just aren't capable of living up to their reputation anymore.

Sadly I agree with you. I remember going once a year sometimes twice a year until I was 20 and my parents split. Last trip was 05 and it was not as great as my many years as a Disney vet had shown Disney to be.

Disney has gone down to the point that Universal puts on a better show. My fiancee and I have APs to HersheyPark in Pa which is less than 2 hours drive away. Hershey is good for what it is, and over the last few years has improved upon itself. Our honeymoon is in Disney in September. i have no intention to being sour upon arrival, but whatever happens will determine the future of our visits, if any.

I will keep my fingers, eyes and toes crossed that things go better than it has for some people in this thread.

[Plex]

Lowering the price is a last resort. It sends all the wrong messages to the business analysts that essentially don't understand what the business is anyway. They get more credit from those analysts for raising the prices on a regular schedule, even if it is negated by discounts offered later in the year (especially when they do it via dining plan and other packages, which are probably not understood by the influential analysts).

Most analysts are going to be looking at the profit margin and the park attendance when they're evaluating the company. Specifically on Disney, I've heard quite a bit of talk for the past couple of years about how they're sacrificing margins to keep revenues and attendance up. Specifically what is being discounted or what prices are changing really doesn't make much of a difference except for marketing purposes. Raising prices does send a pretty strong signal that they feel that the market will bear higher prices, which is overall a good sign for the company if their belief about the market conditions is accurate.

This whole thing may just be a marketing stunt to get people to perceive a WDW vacation as being more expensive, meanwhile they offer even bigger discounts to make people think they're getting a great deal when in fact the net effect is unchanged.

Somewhere in the bowels of the unfashionable end of the Disney Corporation (ie, the accounting department), there is probably a spreadsheet detailing exactly what the expected revenue from each guest is under a variety of different pricing and discounting scenarios. There's way more to what a WDW vacation costs beyond just the gate price - there's lodging, food, souvenirs, attractions you have to pay for, etc. I'm sure Disney actively manages the price of everything very carefully to make sure that their average revenue per guest stays exactly where they want it to be.

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?

How about park tickets? Do you really think the price goes down each consecutive day because they're being nice? Of course not!

Just like a department store - the price isn't really the price, and the discount isn't really a discount.

[TikiLounger]

Mark it up, to mark it down...

[AgentP]

I have always been a huge disney fan. My husband and I got married at the WL and we would visit at least twice a year. Now though, we have to space our trips apart. Our last trip was April 2009. Although I would love to go back, it just isn't possible to go every year on a teacher's salary! We are planning a trip for 2013. This breaks my heart because my children, ages 2 and 4, would love it down there right now (and so would I). For the first time ever, I have been thinking about staying off site or renting a vacation home. This is where Disney is going to get burned. If the resorts on property are not held to a higher standard than the surrounding properties, people will start looking off property. However, I still think that Disney is a pretty good value. When I go to Disney I know that I am going to have a great time. Recently, I priced out a ski trip for this winter. For two days for my family the total was $1000! Compared to that, Disney is a bargain.

[magicofdisney]

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?

I hate to admit it, but I've paid rack rate at least twice (in my younger days). Fortunately, for Disney, there are millions of less savvy Disney consumers (than myself) that do it all the time.

[BluewaterBrad]

It is all well and good for Disney to compare well with similar operations. The problem is how Disney compares to itself. Maybe they just aren't capable of living up to their reputation anymore.

"VERY GOOD POINT!!!!!!!!"

[edhunter28]

it will take more than just money to stop me from going id have tohave a bad time which i havent nor will ever have

[MrPeetrie]

Truthfully, over the last couple of years, we've tried to do some "lower priced" vacations. We went to Busch Gardens, Virginia, two years ago. I was shocked to see how much money we spent there. Since they only have one "on-property" hotel and it was pricey, we stayed close by at a Courtyard Marriot. That was very affordable. The tickets were surprisingly affordable, as well. And since we could drive, we saved on airfare. I thought, "This is going to be one inexpensive vacation." Wrong!!! Food, beverage, and gift shop prices FAR EXCEEDED WDW!!! I averaged nearly $400 a day between breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, and shopping. (Dinner was always away from the park so that's not really fair. We kind of spoiled ourselves, but that's what vacations are for.)

Cedar Point this year wasn't much better. $289/night for room vs. WDW's $149. Truthfully, for the quality, i still think Disney is a good value. Have you ever purchased apparrel from other parks? definitely not Disney quality.

[Mickey91]

Have you ever purchased apparrel from other parks? definitely not Disney quality.

I will have to disagree with you there. We were at Busch Gardens last year to say happy birthday and goodbye to the Big Bad Wolf. Their prices were very comparable to Disney and I also thought the quality was either on par if not a little better as Disney merchandise has been the victim of the worst of the cutbacks. We also got a meal deal as we went in and saved a little there, especially on drink refills. It was a very enjoyable day.

[azcavalier]

Just as a prime example - Have you EVER payed rack rate on a room? Ever?

Yes, a few times. But only when we get something else for free, such as the free DDP. So, rack rate +free food > discounted room+paying for food.