Rivalry Thread- NFL (jets & others)

[gueli]

This is an outsiders interpretation of Pagan vs. gueli ...
...gueli: Yeah but the first time the Dolphins beat us Darrell Reevus had a head cold and the moon was in the 4th phase of Jupiter and someone waved a dead chicken over Rex Ryan's Volvo before the game started and put a curse on his playcalling and plus the Dolphins ran that stupid wildcat formation that's just a fad anyway.
gueli: We won! We won! Super Bowl bound! Where's Pagan?? Where's Pagan??
I can't tell you how engaging this is for the rest of us!

Ah yes, but this thread was created especially for this purpose. We had discussed it in the good, bad & ugly- the conclusion was to have a seperate thread- so here it is. and now you are surprised
I do appreciate most of your commentary- but I have not made excusses for Jet losses or Jet wins. Nor do I believe that the Jets are superbowl bound
I am glad you find it so entertaining- -but as we keep in compliance with the basic intercot rules- the Rivalry goes on. and as melanears has pointed out, you are required to read it....

[gueli]

Um...look at your comments about me talking about ol' Blabbermouth, and apply the same logic.
He says nice things huh? Funny...he didn't have anything nice to say about Woodson being voted defensive MVP. In fact, he was downright condescending.

Quote:
"I wasn't going to comment on it," Ryan said, "but I would like to congratulate the people that voted for Darrelle Revis. These guys obviously really know the game. And you've got to look at all the numbers, not just a number about this, or this stat or that stat....
A number I think is interesting would be eight. And no, that's not the amount of touchdown passes Green Bay gave up against Arizona. That is the number of touchdown passes we gave up all season..."

Classy guy, that Rex. How about congratulating the guy who won?

So how many Miami coaches have congratuled woodson ? How many other coaches ?
oh no, do not tell me- he's at it again- rex is speaking as he feels. He feels slighted, as his player, he believes, should have won. No, I look at this as rex sticking up for his team.
But he does have a valid point doesn't he- how many scores did woodson's team give up in that 1 game ? and we all know it was passing. but hey, I am not going to jump on GB.
and I said he said nice things about YOUR team.

So you never got back to me on that games we pick thing.
Did I shut you down, by pointing out you did not have a leg to stand on ?
that you picked 0 right last week, and I had them all.
Perhaps I feel that the Ravens are playing good D and solid O, they are running well and as you know the Colts have a hard time shutting down the run. They have an excellent chance.
I picked the Jets because they are running well and they too are playing solid D. They are my team- why would I pick against them ?
Minnesota can run or pass. Dalas is playing great. I consider this more of a pick em, and I am not jumping on the boys bandwagon yet (if they get past this week...)
I picked New orleans as I think they have a very opertunistic D, and their offense can keep pace with anyone in this league. Arizona has a good chance to beat em, but I will go with the home team.

Homer picks ? I thought that was you- picking New england- who you said is not a good team...cincy because you hate the jets. Philly ? they played their starters in an important game the week before and dalas kicked them. GB was a solid pick. I just had a feeling Arizona was going to crank it up, now that it is playoff time.

[Pagan]

So how many Miami coaches have congratuled woodson ? How many other coaches ?
oh no, do not tell me- he's at it again- rex is speaking as he feels. He feels slighted, as his player, he believes, should have won. No, I look at this as rex sticking up for his team.
But he does have a valid point doesn't he- how many scores did woodson's team give up in that 1 game ? and we all know it was passing. but hey, I am not going to jump on GB.
and I said he said nice things about YOUR team.

I'm only going to address this part.

Has it ever occured to the Jets - or their fans - that maybe just keeping your mouth shut would be a better alternative?

No, you don't see any other coach congratulating Woodson, but you don't see any other coach bad mouthing the situation either. Lest you forget, it wasn't just Revis and Woodson up for the award. There were other players who have other coaches who might have felt slighted too....but only Rexy had to turn into a whining sore loser.

I think we might need an other thread, the "Stupid Rex Ryan Saying of the Day" thread.

Today's chapter:

"They have to beat our very best & quite honestly, I don't think they'll be able to to."

Right Rex...cause it's not like ANY team beat you. Those 7 losses were a figment of everyone's imagination! LOL!

He's too comical.

[Ian]

I don't blame Rex Ryan for being bitter ... Reevus was far more worthy of that award than Woodson. He's a better corner than Woodson is on his worst day.

[Pagan]

You're an Eagle fan. You guys booed Santa Claus and Michael Irvin's career ending injury.

You shouldn't be chiming in on the topic of classy.

[Ian]

You're an Eagle fan. You guys booed Santa Claus and Michael Irvin's career ending injury.

You shouldn't be chiming in on the topic of classy.

I didn't boo either of those guys.

[Pagan]

I didn't boo either of those guys.

Gods...don't you know anything about rivalry trash talk???

Guilty by association!

[gueli]

Has it ever occured to the Jets - or their fans - that maybe just keeping your mouth shut would be a better alternative?
No, you don't see any other coach congratulating Woodson, but you don't see any other coach bad mouthing the situation either. Lest you forget, it wasn't just Revis and Woodson up for the award. There were other players who have other coaches who might have felt slighted too....but only Rexy had to turn into a whining sore loser.

I unlike you will answer all of your posed questions-
To start- uhhhh, well yes it has occured to us that keeping our mouths shut might be a better way to handle it.
with that said- It is not the case here. that would make this rivalry thread very one sided- with the only words coming from you. Also quite boring.
In addition- Rex was obviosly asked a question about it- as he said "I wasn't going to go into this"- so you are saying that Rex should not answer any of the questions posed to him by the Media ???
Or wait- he should pick and choose (like you)when faced with questions that one doesn't want to answer. After the Years of silence comming out of Jets camp under Mangini- I say let him speak. If you listen to what all the beat reporters say about him - he is light hearted, refreshing, cracks jokes and actually answers the questions- it is no wonder they like him.
Same thing with the fans. Who was the coach that suggested to his team that they should go out and thank their fans after the last game of the season- thats right- good old rex ryan.

Also I did not see his comments as whiney- I see it as sticking up for his PLAYER.
I have yet to see any other coaches state how they feel about their players, nor have I seen them so quick to defend their players the way rex will. Even when Bart Scott says something stupid- rex's comments were like - "he said that. Well he better back it up on the field." (I do believe I am paraphrasing from a very early part of the season)

I think we might need an other thread, the "Stupid Rex Ryan Saying of the Day" thread.
He's too comical.

Sure go ahead and start one.

but you never commented on the "picks" you called me a homer on. Just trying to needle me, huh? Like I said - you can school me on picks when you go 4 & oh, not oh and 4...


Hey wait a minute-

Quote:
"They have to beat our very best & quite honestly, I don't think they'll be able to to."

Where do you get off calling this a stupid rex saying of the day. Lets break it down:

Is he really saying that the Jet losses where all his teams fault ? Many of them were- look at Sanchez's 20 ints and it kinda proves that point - the Jets lost by more than 14 points twice this season (NE and NO), other than that - even against the 2 losses to Miami which we lost by 4 & 5 points - the Jets have been in every game, fighting to the end. The Jets did not play their best in the middle of the season, their D got better towards the end of the season. Our offense has played well these last few games.
Is it out of the realm of possibilities that to beat the Jets in the playoffs, a team has to beat them playing at their best, and in HIS OPINION they will not be able to.
How Dare he say he believes his team is going to win ???
You would think he believes in them or something.

Jets

[gueli]

I don't blame Rex Ryan for being bitter ... Reevus was far more worthy of that award than Woodson. He's a better corner than Woodson is on his worst day.

[Pagan]

The funniest part of all this is...had Rex been the coach of Miami, this entire conversation would be in reverse.

You know as well as I do if he wasn't your team's coach he wouldn't be "light hearted and refreshing".

He'd be a big mouth.

You're right, you have yet to see any coach speak as Rex does. Most of them have the common sense not to. But being a Ryan...it's in the blood to open your mouth to make a fool out of yourself.

Highlighting the situation with Bart Scott just crystalizes my point. One big mouth sticking up for another.

Yea, yea, I know...rah rah rah, it's us against the world attitude. Zzzzzzzzz.

As for the "pick" thing, all I said is that you were a homer. Didn't say anything about your pick record. Me going 0 and 4 and you going 4 and 0 has nothing to do with being the ONLY one who picks the Jets this week, does it now?

That being said, look at the total picks for the year there Guels. I sure CAN talk if I want to. I do see you down there below me.

And with Rex's quote - and your totally predictable defense of it - he could have just said he believes they can win. He's saying he '"honestly doesn't think" San Diego can beat them.

Don't you see how stupid that looks coming from a team that lost to Buffalo, Atlanta, Miami and Jacksonville when San Diego is INFINITELY better than those teams?

Also, look at your explanation. "The Jets did not play their best in the middle of the season" The typical excuse of a Jet fan. NO ONE ever actually beats them! They only lose cause they didn't play their best!

Interestingly, you crow about how they held the Saints in check during that game that they still lost. Were they not playing their best then, Guels? Did they "let" the Saints win that one too?

Maybe we should point out that the Titans "let" them win their game. I mean after all, TWO fumbled punt returns? Surely that means the Titans "let" them win, and weren't playing their best.

This is fun, isn't it?

[gueli]

As for the "pick" thing, all I said is that you were a homer. Didn't say anything about your pick record. Me going 0 and 4 and you going 4 and 0 has nothing to do with being the ONLY one who picks the Jets this week, does it now?

That being said, look at the total picks for the year there Guels. I sure CAN talk if I want to. I do see you down there below me.

This is fun, isn't it?

In reverse- Yes it is Fun. As I have said before- I enjoy our back & forth.

But just to make you aware- and not saying that I still wouldn't be below you on the points for the year- I missed at least 2 weeks- 1 because I started late, the other I was away and my picks got lost- I should have at least 10 more,possibly 15- but that is neither here nor there. I will not take away your totals or that you are above me in the total games picked correctly catagory. But that still does not give you any reason to believe you are better than I am at picking the games.
Also, being 4 and zero in the playoffs is cool.
I doubt that will be the case for me again, but as of right now, much like the dolphins 2 wins over the Jets- it kinda gives me bragging rights.
Also I knew what you were doing- the homer comment- but I thought it had to do with the ravens & the Jets Picks- hence my explanation.

I too believe in the Jets. Why would I pick against them ?
Not only that- but I was one of only a few who picked the Jets last week, and I also picked the ravens. It is the reason I have picked all the playoff games correctly so far.
and that, bro- gives me some bragging rights.

[gueli]

And with Rex's quote - and your totally predictable defense of it - he could have just said he believes they can win. He's saying he '"honestly doesn't think" San Diego can beat them.
Don't you see how stupid that looks coming from a team that lost to Buffalo, Atlanta, Miami and Jacksonville when San Diego is INFINITELY better than those teams?
:

teams we lost to by 6, 3, 5, 4 & 2 points -you mean by 1 touchdown or less ? That is not a very convincing argument. We still lost them but not by much.
also your dolphins lost to the Chargers by 10, this week we will see how the Jets do.
Rex's quote is not so stupid- your arguments might be. You keep trying to spin it like he is such a bad guy, a loudmouth and a bore.
Ok so according to you-
saying "the jets can win" is entirely different than saying "San diego cant beat the Jets" HOW ???
Oh right the certanty of it. He does not leave doubt as to how he thinks. He would not say the Jets can win, he says the Jets WILL win.
IT MEANS THE SAME THING !
semantics.
As far as him being the opponents coach- I am glad he is not. Would it be reversed, maybe. But Its not. Just like if it were reversed, the dolphins might be in the playoffs, but they CERTAINLY are not.

[Pagan]

Saying that your team can win is one thing. It makes your players believe in you.

Saying that you "honestly don't think" the other team can beat you only serves to make the other team think you're saying they aren't good enough.

If you can't see how that would rile up the other team, well then....you must be a Jet fan.

Just like if it were reversed, the dolphins might be in the playoffs, but they CERTAINLY are not.

LOL....hang on to that one my friend. That's all you got!

Seeing as the Phins have been there 22 times to the Jets what, 12? I seem to have the upper hand in that catagory.

[gueli]

Saying that your team can win is one thing. It makes your players believe in you.
Saying that you "honestly don't think" the other team can beat you only serves to make the other team think you're saying they aren't good enough.
If you can't see how that would rile up the other team, well then....you must be a Jet fan.

Ah, so you admit, Mr Pagan, that your argument is based entirely upon what our divisonal opponent in the playoffs perceives as a slight ?
That the quote is about how strongly Rex believes in the Jets - and that the Chargers Can't- in rex's opinion- beat them ?
That it is actually not such a stupid thing to say- That you are just such a RYAN hater, that you worry about how his quotes will affect the OTHER team ... He has proven he doesn't believe that locker room quotes are of any great concern- that the opposing team are professionals who will want to beat the Jets, for the purpose of beating the Jets, and in this particular case, will want to continue on to the AFC Championship Game, which if san diego can win the Jets will be a footnote on their march to superbowl stardom (from the chargers standpoint).

but by all means start a thread on the Jets- and their quotes. Please.

LOL....hang on to that one my friend. That's all you got!
Seeing as the Phins have been there 22 times to the Jets what, 12? I seem to have the upper hand in that catagory.

have the fish won ANY games beyond the 1st round, you know in the past decade- not in the 1980's, or 1970's ? Remember, as is the same thing with our 40 years removed from WINNING the superbowl - how many times you make it to the playoffs, does not give you any bragging rights. Taking home the trophy does.
All you are saying is that in 22 times they have won only 2, thats a pretty bad winning percentage isn't it l (isn't like that under a 10th of a percentage point).

[gueli]

Um sorry- i made a mistake in how I was expressing the winning percentage- they have won something like 9% of the times the dolphins have gone to the playoffs, the jets just slightly worse (8%).
but again my point is - NEITHER of our teams have gone to and won the show in like 40 years. Bragging about how many times they didn't win is really something lost on me.

the other correction I wished to make was when I said "That it is actually not such a stupid thing to say- That you are just such a RYAN hater, that you worry about how his quotes will affect the OTHER team ..." I should have made it clearer- my puntuation is off - it should read "That it is actually not such a stupid thing to say. You are just such a RYAN hater, that you worry about how his quotes will affect the OTHER team ..." a slight difference- but in this case it would have clarified what I was saying.

Sorry to all for not catching this before I posted it- My DW had just gotten home with DD and I had to go...

my best to all
Gueli

J
E
T
S

[Pagan]

Bragging about how many times they didn't win is really something lost on me.

You mean kinda like bragging that one team got into the playoffs in a particular year while the other didn't?

[Missy_Mouses_Dad]

I would have to disagree with the Reevus/Woodson comparisons. Reevus is a better cover corner. But taking the overall package, Woodson is the better defensive player. He plays an odd linebacker at times, blitzing, covering backs and tightends. He blitzes from the corner, and since Al Harris has gone down with an injury, is also responsible for covering the #1 receiver of a team, at times. He has also lined up at safety in certain coverage schemes. The Cards game was a playoff, which does not count as far as season awards go, the voting is done prior to the post-season starting. Let's not forget that Kurt Warner is probably a first ballot hall of famer. He has made a career of picking apart defenses.

Let's look at the whole package here..it is the defensive player of the year, not the cornerback of the year. Woodson was human highlight reel this year. Don't let the fact that he plays in Green Bay and not a marquee venue like NY stand in the way.

[Ian]

Let's look at the whole package here..it is the defensive player of the year, not the cornerback of the year. Woodson was human highlight reel this year. Don't let the fact that he plays in Green Bay and not a marquee venue like NY stand in the way.

How about the fact that Reevus was the anchor of not only the number one defense overall, but also the number one pass defense?

Green Bay was ranked fifth, giving up 201.1 passing yards per game. The Jets were 1st, giving up nearly 50 yards passing per game less than Green Bay with 153.7 per game.

[gueli]

You mean kinda like bragging that one team got into the playoffs in a particular year while the other didn't?

hmm, no needeling a dolphins fan - has nothing to do with bragging- I do not consider the jets being in the playoffs bragging - pointing it out to you, as a fan of the only team to beat us twice this year, is one of the little things I will take with me going into next year. As I have said before- for both our teams - we will take whatever positives come out and cling to them like a life perserver in 15 foot swells in the bearing sea.


No no Pagan, the only Bragging I am doing is about ME going 4 & zero in the first round of the playoffs.

PS I am not the ONLY one who has Picked the Jets...

[gueli]

I would have to disagree with the Reevus/Woodson comparisons. Reevus is a better cover corner. But taking the overall package, Woodson is the better defensive player. He plays an odd linebacker at times, blitzing, covering backs and tightends. He blitzes from the corner, and since Al Harris has gone down with an injury, is also responsible for covering the #1 receiver of a team, at times. He has also lined up at safety in certain coverage schemes. The Cards game was a playoff, which does not count as far as season awards go, the voting is done prior to the post-season starting. Let's not forget that Kurt Warner is probably a first ballot hall of famer. He has made a career of picking apart defenses.
Let's look at the whole package here..it is the defensive player of the year, not the cornerback of the year. Woodson was human highlight reel this year. Don't let the fact that he plays in Green Bay and not a marquee venue like NY stand in the way.

Ok to weigh in
first off #24 of the Jets last name is REVIS, first name Darrelle
Ok so Revis is such a good cover corner that they put him on the oppositions best reciever, because this is part of the Jets defensive Scheme. When people run to his side, and the reciever trys to block him- more often than not Revis stops the run with a wonderful tackle.
As far as a whole package- you are right- woodson has been asked to play more positions in different ways. But the end result is that he needs to make good tackles and stop the pass when it comes his way. But to say Revis could not do the same thing- I find is a stretch. He's not asked to do that. The Jets have been lucky that they have only lost 2 pro-bowl caliber players to injury. If revis was asked to blitz- he would. But thats not his role. Very few of the top recievers have managed to have a good game against him, and that speaks volumes.
In the end- the people who voted decided that Woodson was the D player of the year.
Good for him.
As fans- its only right that we would compare them, or talk up who we feel is the best. But in the end, all of my talking- or Ians - or even Chad 8-5 admitting how good Revis is- makes no impact on those who vote.

Now as far as your Marquee NY area comment- I will point out this- Much like the Yankees and mets, the Giants and the Jets have very distinct fan basses. In NY - the Marquee Baseball team is the Yankees, and in New Jersey, the Marquee football team is the Giants, with the Jets and mets, more often than not being treated like the kid brother - not the Star. This is true of the media, and more often than not- from the attitudes of the fans. Until the Jets become a perrenial powerhouse, and win the Superbowl- that is the way it will be.

But back to the point- woodson won the defensive player of the year.
I can talk revis up all I want, but he did not win.
Much like the Kid brother reference- does that mean that the Jets, with its #1 pass D & #1 overall D (I think they were #9 against the run) and #1 in fewest points allowed were overlooked ? Because they play a Team oriented D ? Because they can rely on Derrelle Revis to cover any reciever in the league ?

Ahh- none of it matters.
Congrats to all who won the awards.