Vote: Worst Franchise in sports poll

[Scar]

Oh, and I just noticed...

How the heck do the Arizona Cardinals make both the elite and the worst polls.

I know, I know, the elite poll is this year and the worst is cummulative.

[Pagan]

Boy...you guys know how to tinkle on a good joke, dontcha?

BTW...you can't include the Browns then in worst FRANCHISE.

The Cleveland Browns franchise at one time was the best in football. None of the others can claim that.

We're talking franchises, not just current incarnations of franchises.

[Nascfan]

If you're going to combine the old Browns and the new Browns into one, I agree with you. That's why I specified new Browns as one of the worst.

Wasn't it just in the 80's that the Browns were a perennial playoff team with Bernie Kosar and the wizard of Ozzie Newsome? Not nearly as bad as long as some of the other teams.

[Pagan]

If you're going to combine the old Browns and the new Browns into one, I agree with you. That's why I specified new Browns as one of the worst.

You have to include them bro. The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns. Doesn't matter that there was a break. It's the franchise.

Wasn't it just in the 80's that the Browns were a perennial playoff team with Bernie Kosar and the wizard of Ozzie Newsome? Not nearly as bad as long as some of the other teams.

Yup...victims of "the fumble" and "the drive".

[Nascfan]

See, I went a different route in my thinking. When Modell moved them to Baltimore, in my thought process the franchise just moved there under a different name. Hence, the new Browns are a new franchise, follow where I'm going?
I see Scar took the same route.

But see, the old teams ARE still playing. The Miami Dolphins are still the Miami Dolphins. They didn't mover the Dolphins to another city, give them a new name, then bring in another Miami Dolphins team after a break since '72, did they?

[Pagan]

That depends on how you want to look at it.

According to the NFL, it's the same team.

Go look it up.

[Scar]

That depends on how you want to look at it.

According to the NFL, it's the same team.

Go look it up.

Yes, but that is only because the NFL was scared from Cleveland threatening to sue them. They are the only US professional sports team (that I'm aware of) to get that.

[Nascfan]

That depends on how you want to look at it.

According to the NFL, it's the same team.

Go look it up.

Yeah, it's a matter of how we all want to look at it. I look at it as a different franchise, a new franchise as they ceased to exist when the franchise moved to Baltimore. Just like the Ravens are not the same franchise that existed in Baltimore under Unitas and others as the Colts, that franchis plays in Indianapolis now. Following your logic, Baltimore Ravens would be the same as the old Baltimore Colts, but it's all in how we all choose to look at it.

I honestly don't know how to look up the franchise license numbers, but I'm sure there's a way to get that information and really find out which team is truly which.

[Pagan]

In fact...a little research shows that the Browns:

~ Have won 8 championships
~ Won/Loss Record is 428-372
~ Have made the playoffs 12 times since 1969
~ Have finished over .500 36 times in their 60 year history.
~ Have made the playoffs 28 times in 60 years.

Not for anything, ALL better than the Jets. So if they are included, why not the Jets?

Actually not baiting ot joking this time. This is a legitimate question.

[Scar]

Boy...you guys know how to tinkle on a good joke, dontcha?

BTW...you can't include the Browns then in worst FRANCHISE.

The Cleveland Browns franchise at one time was the best in football. None of the others can claim that.

We're talking franchises, not just current incarnations of franchises.

I know this is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, the legacy of the Brown teams your talking about play in Baltimore now.

[Pagan]

I know this is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, the legacy of the Brown teams your talking about play in Baltimore now.

That makes absolutely no sense scar.

If you go by that logic, NO team can be linked to their old teams...unless of course ALL the old players are playing still.

The current Miami Dolphins have NOTHING to do with the undefeated 1972 team. They even play in a different stadium. Doesn't mean they're not the Dolphins.

They play in Cleveland. They wear the same uniforms, they're called the Browns.

That makes them the Cleveland Browns.