Recession? Not in WDW! But the Crowd BEHAVIOR is What was So Bad

[johnO]

I personally would have the attitude of "going above and beyond" so that management would have to say, "this guy we need to keep"

No see you're all wrong. Nowadays the appropriate attitude is to believe that you're entitled to a job at WDW, regardless of your work ethic..........

[Marker]

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

But anytime Disney, or anyone else, is forced to make special accomodations for those who behave badly, the rest of us pay a price. If Disney if forced to position more cast members to handle the out of control crowd at rope drop, then there are fewer cast members some place else. Shouldn't it be basic human nature to NOT run over another person in order to gain a few places in a line, or a few minutes in a queue?

That's what I mean by "should they have to". When and why did it become commonplace and acceptable to behave so poorly.

And now that they are being tasked with attempting to control such things, they are limited in the methods they can use partly based on what the liabily lawyers advise. Just because something might make more sense, does not mean it is a choise that will best limit liability.

Even though it often seems folks make great sport out of blaming corporate giants for everything that goes wrong, and think it perfectly acceptable to attept to pick those those deep corporate pockets whether it's justified or not, it still remains our own responsibility how we behave.

It is also our own responsibility how we react to that behavior. But again, just my opinion, no one has to agree.

[Ian]

BTW -- DL is much worse in this area IMHO.

That was our experience, as well. The crowds at DL seem to have a much greater tendency to run, push, and shove their way to whatever attraction they're heading to at rope drop.

At our trip in September, I saw a kid who couldn't have been older than 12 with a shirt on that had two words, but there were letters missing and a slogan that said "Would you like to buy a vowel" - and his parents were walking right along side with him!!

That was one kid. How many other tens of thousands of kids had normal, non-profane t-shirts on??

Bad parenting is nothing new. You single out one kid and try and use that to portend the downfall of society and I just don't see it.

[Disney Doll]

We were at the rope drop in DHS the last week of January and did not experience the mob others are describing. It was crowded sure and yes most everyone headed to TSM which created quite a traffic jam over that way, but I didn't see any rude behavior. We also experienced rope drop at DHS last October and again it wasn't too bad. I do think that the time of year you go makes all the difference. When there are huge crowds people get frustrated and irritable. As to why the OP had such a different experience this time as opposed to previous trips in peak season, I blame Disney. Walking the rope to the attraction is such an easy solution and I can't imagine why it's no longer practiced. It's irresponsible to not have more control.

[dntccc]

I am going to tick some people off with this statement, but I have also noticed a general trend toward this bad behavior when the crowd is there during and incentive period. Buy 4, get 3 is going to bring out some people that don't know how to behave in a crowd. Have you ever noticed that around holiday time in the mall you are presented with a bunch of people that only go out to shop that one time per year? They have little or no etiquette in the parking lot, while waitning in line at the checkout, or anyplace else there is a crowd at the mall.

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.

[Ian]

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.

One thing I have learned absolutely over the years is that cash does not equate to class.

I know for a fact that many, many of the folks I have seen behaving like morons in WDW are at least moderately affluent. You don't see poor people running others over with a $500 stroller.

[JPL]

But anytime Disney, or anyone else, is forced to make special accomodations for those who behave badly, the rest of us pay a price. If Disney if forced to position more cast members to handle the out of control crowd at rope drop, then there are fewer cast members some place else. Shouldn't it be basic human nature to NOT run over another person in order to gain a few places in a line, or a few minutes in a queue?

First off it takes 4-6 CMs at AK and that's covering the 2 major attractions. So we are not talking about a large number of people. And yes basic human nature should be not to run,push etc. but when this type of behavior is allowed to take place it become the norm. It's mob mentality happens all the time. A person walking sees 20 people running and starts to run so they won't miss out. Add the CMs encouraging the behavior instead simply saying don't run and you add fuel to the fire. So if Disney takes the 6 CMs cheering on the mad rush and hands them a rope to carry and slow people down they aren't allowing or encouraging the behavior. Sorry but that's the least Disney can do and should fall under their realm of responsibility. Unfortunately we don't live in Utopia so we all need to face some reality even at WDW.

[Goofster]

So, it sounds as if you are saying - having "a lot" of money / being wealthy / etc. equates to having good manners? If this is your take on this, then either you are only seeing what you want to see or you have not been around the "other" crowd enough. I have encountered and seen people who "have money" who displayed very bad manners, and I have encountered and seen people with not so much money display very good manners.

That's a very nice PC-minded answer. Though the OP could use a little more tact in presenting his theory, its not as if it doesn't hold water or have some ring of truth to it. Case in point...there is a huge difference between the crowds, and their behavior and respect for rules, at Cedar Point and WDW.

[AXOAlum]

That was one kid. How many other tens of thousands of kids had normal, non-profane t-shirts on??

Bad parenting is nothing new. You single out one kid and try and use that to portend the downfall of society and I just don't see it.

Wow...guess I've been put in my place. I was simply trying to make a comment about the tee-shirt analogy JonO had made, meaning I was shocked at the tee shirt slogan I saw on a young boy. I'll bow out of this topic now.

[afowl1017]

I also have found bad behavior all over the parks (from WDW, Universal Studios, Sea World, to our local fun parks).This has become my new pet peeve. It is very hard to create a "happy bubble" around you and your family when you get pushed aside, cut-off, and your precious babies in a stroller get bumped around constantly. It becomes "road rage" to a point. Is it a decline in civility? Maybe...but people in masses tend to be pretty "mobbish", People on their own have more respect and tend to act more civil. (However there people who love being the exceptions.)

I believe Disney has a responsibility to help in crowd control though. Although I believe they do a pretty good job of it (better than anywhere else I have been). They deal with massive amounts of people on a daily basis...from all over the country and the world. So Kudos to WDW , but if CM's are egging the "mob" on...shame on them.I wonder if anyone went to guest services to "tattle tell" on them. That is a huge safety issue.

[joonyer]

A very large effect of the philosophy of post-modern western culture, especially in the U.S., where everyone has been indoctrinated into the concept of the "superiority of the individual" and the "I, ME, MY, MINE", entitlement culture, is that people have been taught directly and indirectly to believe that :

"IT IS ALL ABOUT ME! What I want is more important than anything else and I am entitled to it, so get out of my way."

In general, most people today think much less about how their behavior affects other people than most people 50-100 years ago thought about the consequences of their behavior on others. Many people don't even think their behavior should have any negative consequences on themselves, so we can't realistically expect them to care how it might affect others. Some of them are not being intentionally and deliberately selfish, but the thought that what they do might negatively affect someone else just never even enters their mind. It is a completely foreign concept to their consciousness.

This phenomenon has crossed over through most all socio/economic classes, so that you can't presume that more educated - wealthier people or that less educated - poorer people are more or less likely to behave selfishly than other groups.

DISCLAIMER: I am only an "amateur" sociologist, but my laboratory has been my courtroom (I am a judge) and my experience there over the past 20 years. It still amazes me almost daily how many people have no clue about the consequences of their behavior.

[afowl1017]

I wonder if anyone went to guest services to "tattle tell" on them. That is a huge safety issue.

I was just told by my DH that, that wouldn't help at all. Maybe not, but what can one do?

[LarryBoy]

How many kids wear T-shirts with Einstein on it? None. They're all wearing shirts with Scarface, the Sopranos or 50-Cent.

Actually my son has a shirt with Einstein on it. I have one is well, what's really cool is they glow in the dark. NO really we do.


“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
Albert Einstein

[afowl1017]

I love these types of disscussions...maybe because it is a type of therapy for me.

A very large effect of the philosophy of post-modern western culture, especially in the U.S., where everyone has been indoctrinated into the concept of the "superiority of the individual" and the "I, ME, MY, MINE", entitlement culture, is that people have been taught directly and indirectly to believe that :

"IT IS ALL ABOUT ME! What I want is more important than anything else and I am entitled to it, so get out of my way."

Don't you find that society rewards this type of behavior? It seems so out of control.

good post

[doodleboy]

I was just told by my DH that, that wouldn't help at all. Maybe not, but what can one do?

It will help! If they hear it enough, they will have to respond. As I have mentioned in the past send an email to: [email protected] or letter to:
Walt Disney World
Guest Communication
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0040

I want to have a good experience at WDW, and I am willing to fight for it. Don't let your voice be muted by having the attitude that you can't do anything about it. Your money is as green as the folks who push and shove you around in those parks. In fact, I would bet that there are more folks like us, who want to just have a good time without aggression. But how would WDW know that without letting them know.

Enough, I'll shut up for now.

[Ian]

Wow...guess I've been put in my place. I was simply trying to make a comment about the tee-shirt analogy JonO had made, meaning I was shocked at the tee shirt slogan I saw on a young boy. I'll bow out of this topic now.

I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I just used your post as a springboard to support my point (made previously) that I don't really buy into the whole "decline of Western civilization" argument. I think people have, by and large, always been like this.

I should, however, have been more clear that I wasn't singling you out. It would have been more appropriate to say something like, "This is what I was saying before ... there was one child with a profane shirt on, but tens of thousands with perfectly acceptable shirts. It's the bad ones that stick out, though, and I think that skews perceptions sometimes."

I posted what I originally posted in a rush and really didn't stop to think how it read or how it would be perceived. My apologies if I sounded like I was singling you out. Didn't mean it that way at all.

[afowl1017]

Thanks Doodleboy! Appreciate the encouragement!

[wire0monkey]

Maybe they should just eliminate the rope drop. Especially at DHS. It's a relatively small park anyway. They could still start letting people in at a time, 20-30 minutes, before the official opening, but just have the whole park open to explore. The attractions could still be closed till the official opening, but people could just queue up outside whichever attraction it is they want to ride first, or even line up to wait on a FP. This would eliminate the mass rush of people. The running of the tourists, if you will.

This is a great idea. The security check and turnstiles will slow down the flow of people into the park, and letting them disburse stops the "trampling" problem.

[4ubie1]

I have to say the point made about giving the CMs (who were cheering on the crowds to run for attractions) a rope and leading the crowd through slowly is a good one. I promise you the CMs would not be encouraging the crowd to run if they were in between the mob and their goal...plus it would be a fairly effective crowd control procedure.


Also I could have sworn I went once to DS when they let people in early to roam around the park even though the attractions were not open. It did lessen the crowd at opening...although this idea might just lead people to crowd the front of the attraction/fastpass area..but then one could argue that it would be easier to control a mob in a queue/line area at the attraction then at the wide rope drop area. People would be forced into a bottle neck at the queue..which isnt necessarily safer but it does slow people down. Plus, it takes less CMs to control the situation and they could walk the rope through the queue line to further slow people down like at other attractions.

Just a thought anway!

[Marceline]

Wow. All of this just makes me happy that I don't go for the "rope drop" moment. I did it once a long time ago, it was special to see the park empty for a few moments but when the herd began mooooving I realized how silly it all was.

One poster mentioned that many blogs and guide books tell their readers to show up early to be the first to get in line for a fast passes. I would think a smart bird would be wary of these "secret" supposedly time savings tips in mass produced and widely read sources.

I don't rush on vacation, there is no need. The ride will still be there when I get there. If I miss this boat/monorail/bus....another one will be by in a bit.

I am weird....I enjoy the waiting. I NEVER do fastpass. It's part of the experience, it's a good chance to absorb the ambiance, people watch, have the glorious realization wash over you that you are in fact AT Walt Disney World.

People need to learn to breathe. I am going to get zen on ya'll for a second. It's not the NOW that is the problem, it's everyone always thinking twenty steps ahead that's the issue...

----First I am going to wake up get dressed and rush to dress the kids and then rush rush rush through breakfast and then rush rush rush to the park and then fidget while we wait for the rope to drop so we can rush rush rush to get a fastpass so we can rush rush rush to do the next thing.----
Is that fun?

You only really waste time when you aren't enjoying the moment you are in.