Recession? Not in WDW! But the Crowd BEHAVIOR is What was So Bad

[mouseketeer mom]

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

Jeff, I totally agree with this. In August we were at the front of the line for rope drop at DHS, and of course planned on heading to TSM right away. I just remember the sea of people behind us charging forward at the drop. I yelled to my husband to just take the kids, just take the kids, because suddenly all was so very out of control. He took them aside and I made my way to the new attraction and they met me there after I got the fastpasses. Nothing about this experience felt good, positive or controlled. As I parent I just immediately wanted my kids, especially my little one who couldn't hold his own, OUT OF THE WAY. There was no mercy from anyone, it was every man for himself. We decided then and there we wouldn't do that again.

[cgriff]

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something.

Basic, logistical crowd management, yes. But Disney can't make guests not be rude, which is what I believe the point Marker was making.

[cgriff]

There was no mercy from anyone, it was every man for himself. We decided then and there we wouldn't do that again.

Well it *is* called Toy Story MANIA!

[LarryBoy]

Maybe they should just eliminate the rope drop. Especially at DHS. It's a relatively small park anyway. They could still start letting people in at a time, 20-30 minutes, before the official opening, but just have the whole park open to explore. The attractions could still be closed till the official opening, but people could just queue up outside whichever attraction it is they want to ride first, or even line up to wait on a FP. This would eliminate the mass rush of people. The running of the tourists, if you will.

[johnO]

We experienced President's Day week about 10 years ago. We had no idea how crowded it was during that week. We had gone to WDW in early Feb 1998 and the crowds were minimal. The following year we went during President's day week and were shocked. I was speechless and could not believe how crowded it was. I finally asked a CM what the deal was and she explained how busy it was during that week every year and that it was considered 'peak season' during that week.

WDW is NOT the same when the crowds are this bad because people get frustrated and then they get rude.

Since then we've steered clear of peak season and visit strictly during the value seasons, early Feb. or Late Sept. We have to take the kids out of school but its well worth it.
It really dampens the experience of WDW when the crowds are so overwhelming.

Marker posted: Maybe I'm naive but I don't believe that they just don't care. I think the vast majority; from CM on up, do indeed care. Unfortunately, to a larger extent than in recent history their hands are tied. They are restricted by legal/liability issues. They are restricted by budget issues and economic realities. If they truly did not care, then WDW would have long ago lost its place in our hearts, and its reputation for quality. But that's just my opinion.

***Warning*** the following statements are *IMHO* so forgive me while I'm on my
...

I think the liability aspect is crucial. In today’s society everything is someone else’s fault. Our society has virtually removed personal accountability whether it's paying your mortgage (see the mortgage bailout ), or behaving in a civil manner on vacation. Bad behavior is glorified in our decaying society.

How many kids wear T-shirts with Einstein on it? None. They're all wearing shirts with Scarface, the Sopranos or 50-Cent. Criminality is glorified in our country. We live in a world where BAD is good. It's like ancient Rome for crying out loud. If you go to the President's YouTube channel on the internet you'll find that the most watched video is him dancing on Ellen DeGeneres' show. Of all the videos the one society cares about most is the one of him dancing. It's unbelievable to me.

We live in a country where everyone is sue happy. And with a complicit judiciary, individuals and businesses alike are afraid to protect their very own rights or privileges. A man in Arizona was just sued by illegal aliens from Mexico because he detained them when they entered onto HIS PROPERTY...ILLEGALLY!! Not only did this bogus lawsuit make it into the court but the court ruled against him and he has to pay damages to the ILLEGAL ALIENS!!! To the tune of $80,000!!!

Now consider how many people have sued WDW because they were ejected from a park for their behavior? How many times have they fought this fight? Probably until they decide "It's just not worth it anymore." Let people act how they will.

Personal responsibility and accountability have vanished from our society. It’s no wonder that people act like psychopaths towards others and get away with it.

I know..I'm sorry....I'm done....

[cgriff]

JohnO is absolutely right. It's not a soapbox, and therefore does not need a disclaimer, if what you speak is the truth!

[Ian]

Perhaps Disney could do more to prevent this bad behavior, but should they have to. Regardless of what Disney could do, the bad behavior is coming from the people, it is a choice they are making. Very likely, no matter what deterrent Disney were to put in place, they'd likely find a way around it. Also, those deterrents would no doubt have a price tag. We all know that we are in an economic climate of cut backs, not enhancements. Regardless of what deterrents are in place, people need to be held accountable for their own behavior rather than deflecting the blame somewhere else. But that's just my opinion.

I don't disagree and I'm not deflecting blame ... I'm merely saying that I think Disney shares responsibility with the guests behaving badly. I'm also saying that people have been behaving badly in crowd situations for decades. I don't believe it's a new thing and I don't believe it's indicitive of the downfall of society, like some people seem to.

And listen ... here's the deal. I've been at Epcot in the past and they handled rope drop for Soarin' totally differently from how they handle at DHS.

They basically keep the rope up between two cast members and force all the guests to walk behind the rope all the way up to the ride entrance.

I don't see how that would cost any more and it's certainly more effective.

[joelkfla]

This was way before my time as a CM, but ..

Wasn't there a time when CM's with ropes between them would form a moving barricade, and walk guests from the entrance to the hottest attractions? And anyone seen attempting an "end run" around the barricade would be severely scolded and sent back!

I guess we don't have enough CM's on the street to do that anymore. Or maybe people are just too rude these days to do it safely anymore.

[JPL]

And listen ... here's the deal. I've been at Epcot in the past and they handled rope drop for Soarin' totally differently from how they handle at DHS.

They basically keep the rope up between two cast members and force all the guests to walk behind the rope all the way up to the ride entrance.

They do the same at AK going to Evereest and the Safari you can only go as fast as the CMs walk

[doodleboy]

Sounds like another day at Wal-Mart to me. I'm trying to make light of what we've turned into as a nation.

I do find it funny that people are pointing out that the reason that WDW is not controlling crowds is an economic one. If there are crowds to be controlled, does that not mean that somewhere a bunch of $$$ was collected for that crowd to be there? People have been using this as an excuse for everything WDW does wrong for years, even when the economy was booming and you were lucky to get a AAA discount on a room. If by economic reasons, you mean greed, you would be correct. "Let's see how little we can offer the general public for their vacation money, and see how long it takes them to realize they are being taken?"

I am going to tick some people off with this statement, but I have also noticed a general trend toward this bad behavior when the crowd is there during and incentive period. Buy 4, get 3 is going to bring out some people that don't know how to behave in a crowd. Have you ever noticed that around holiday time in the mall you are presented with a bunch of people that only go out to shop that one time per year? They have little or no etiquette in the parking lot, while waitning in line at the checkout, or anyplace else there is a crowd at the mall.

WDW needs to take some responsibily for how people behave in their parks. Most of us have paid good money for the experience, and some level of order should be enforced while you are there.

BTW -- DL is much worse in this area IMHO. On our last trip there there was only one CM for 2-3 characters. They did not establish a line for autographs, but let the crowd huddle around each character. If you were not aggressive your child would never get an autograph or photo. I saw parents pushing their children into the character's direction to get the next spot, whil e those with manners waited and never got the chance. When I asked the CM that was just standing there why she wasn't attempting to establish a line, she said that's just how they do things.

If you want to do something about this situation, send your complaints into WDW via the mail or an email to [email protected]. I do this after every trip, and not just negative feedback but also the positive. I try to include dates and CMs names that I may have had a positve or negative experience with while visiting. We spend so much time and energy venting to each other here, why not let WDW know what is going on? All of you that have registered complaints on this thread should put together and email and send it in. And mention the things you liked too, so that WDW keeps doing them.

[wire0monkey]

Please... it's not that hard to control a crowd at a rope drop at a Disney park. Rather than dropping the rope and letting the crowd run for it, you have some cast members hold the rope and walk the crowd back at a brisk clip to the attraction.

If it they're looking at trampling situations, they need to do that. They used to do it. There's no reason they can't do it again.

And you bet your booty, that if someone gets trampled, a clever plaintiff's attorney is going to hold Disney accountable for its rope drop procedure or lack there of.

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

Wow, that sounds like our Christmas trip....hard to believe its the same in February

[Meteora]

Yes Disney should be responsible for doing something. Crowd control comes with the territory whether they like it or not. Unless of course the want the news story with the Headline " Boy Trambled to Death attempting to ride Toy Story Attraction at WDW" Because the longer the wait to control this the worse it will get and the fictional headline above will become a reality.

If Disney isn't concerned about this, they should be. I'm sure most people read in the news that a man was trampled at a Wal-Mart near my house during the Christmas shopping rush. These kinds of things happen, and when small children are part of the crowd, accidents are even more likely to occur. The system is not working as is, and Disney's first priority, always, should be to keep all of their park guests safe.

[Recusit8m]

I took my family to WDW for their first trip last month...Jan4-11 to be exact...I have been here numerous times before w/ pretty much the same dates...OMG i havent seen crowds like that before...TSM was gone by 11 and the wait when we went back with fast passes was 180min and people were in line...It was nuts...We spent 2 days at all of the parks except MK...We couldnt deal with it at all...We have wonderful memories from the parks but the 1 day we were at MK was a blurr...We can only remember my daughters first trip on Space Mountain...I can tell you this though, We love Disney but we prob wont be going back again for some time...

[JPL]

I am going to tick some people off with this statement, but I have also noticed a general trend toward this bad behavior when the crowd is there during and incentive period. Buy 4, get 3 is going to bring out some people that don't know how to behave in a crowd.

Sorry but I think you are mistaking having money with having class and the 2 are not related.

[AXOAlum]

I think the liability aspect is crucial. In today’s society everything is someone else’s fault. Our society has virtually removed personal accountability whether it's paying your mortgage (see the mortgage bailout ), or behaving in a civil manner on vacation. Bad behavior is glorified in our decaying society.

Personal responsibility and accountability have vanished from our society. It’s no wonder that people act like psychopaths towards others and get away with it.

At our trip in September, I saw a kid who couldn't have been older than 12 with a shirt on that had two words, but there were letters missing and a slogan that said "Would you like to buy a vowel" - and his parents were walking right along side with him!! (oh, the first word spelled out would have rhymed with a word meaning male deer, and the second word would have been you... I am paraphrasing it this way to be gentle to our readers, but I'm sure you get the point)

We also experienced the mania going to Toy Story Midway Mania during this trip, and yes, MANY CM's were cheering the crowd on as people ran, elbowed, and manuevered their way to TSMM. I seriously didn't see anyone in that park going in any other direction - all million of us were going to the same place. I think that it would be very beneficial to have CM's leading the crowd in behind a rope. I was very scared for DS 6 and DD (then 6 months) as I could see someone knocking her out of DH's arms.

As it stands now, unless you are prepared to wait 2+ hours to experience this attraction, you must be there at rope drop in order to get in line and/or get FP's.

[doodleboy]

Sorry but I think you are mistaking having money with having class and the 2 are not related.

If Disney isn't concerned about this, they should be. I'm sure most people read in the news that a man was trampled at a Wal-Mart near my house during the Christmas shopping rush. These kinds of things happen, and when small children are part of the crowd, accidents are even more likely to occur. The system is not working as is, and Disney's first priority, always, should be to keep all of their park guests safe.

Nobody has ever been trampled to death at Nordstrom.

[johnO]

It's a sign of the times. We live in a society WITHOUT patience. Everything has to be NOW, NOW, NOW. With cell phones, cable TV and a 24 hour a day news cycle, patience don't fit in to todays society. "Why should I wait in line" is the very thought in the heads of many. I'm glad someone brought up the Wal-Mart fiasco where a man was trampled to death. Yeah I definetly don't think we're moving forward morally as a society and I do feel that this is just another example of it......

[Imagineer1981]

I agree I noticed back in June and to make matter worse the CMs at VOTLM were cheering guests on encouraging them to run to TSM. The only way this is going to stop is when someone gets seriously injured and I hate to say it sues them and wins a boat load of cash.

Crowd control at WDW was non-existent in December and I'm sure it's getting worse with the cutbacks taking place. Ian is right they really just don't care any more

Wow, I can't believe its gotten so bad. I wonder if alot of CMs are under the mentality of "hey I could be laid off tomorrow, so who cares". I personally would have the attitude of "going above and beyond" so that management would have to say, "this guy we need to keep"

[JPL]

I think the only comparison to Wa-mart here is as an example of what happens with poor crowd control. The Wal-mart scenario took place because they limited the amount of slae items available and the demand was greater than the supply which is exactly the same situaution with FPs at TSM. Trust me I am sure there are just as many people staying at Deluxe Resorts pushing their way towards TSM as people staying at Values. The issue is simply crowd control. There were no blockbuster deals when I experienced it in June so blaming the times of year when there are deal makes no sense.