Angry with attendance policies

[Jeff]

Folks let's please remember to be civil. This is always a very "hot button" item on Intercot. One person's opinion is just as valid as another's on this family issue.

Also, please let's not turn this thread into a "teacher bashing" thread.

Keep in mind that many State Legislatures now set attendance policies and school calendars and school employees, administrators and school boards have virtually no say on the subject.

[tinklover]

It should not be EXTRA work for a teacher to send home work with teh child who is going to be missing school. As part of the teacher's job description , they are to have a lesson plan made up a week to two weeks in advance incase they wer eto be ill and a sub had to come in . so taking teh extra time to jot down what chapters to read or print off some work sheets while the kids are reading or taking notes form teh black board is not and should not be considered EXTRA work. and Puppy mom those are some heartfelt stories about teachers you know and most of them took teh extra time when in some of teh cases all that neede dto be done was contacting social services. I comend those teachers for taking that extra step and contacting the parent to try and resolve the issue. I know school teachers are different then a day care teacher but in some ways teh same. we too had to have lesson plans for teh week and we too were responsible for contacting social services if somethingw as not "right" like kids coming to school repeatedly in dirty clothes and having B.O. and yes their are parents who just don't care. BUt to me it seems like the OP really does care about their children and are stuck between a rock and a hard place because of the school district's rule of 0s for unexcused absences, that were more then likely put in place due to the parents who really did not care and let tehir kids miss school becasue they did not want to wake up in time to make sure teh child was up or becasue they did not feel like waslking them to the bus stop or what ever reason. all i am saying is, it is not fair to jump teh OP because she was asking for advice on how to handle the situation when a school employee told her to lie which would mean she would have to get her kid to lie. if it wer eme iw ould be searching for a new school in a different school district becasue that to me says the schools are not teaching my kids what they need ., but teaching my kids to be liars. just my

To the OP i am sorry your school district is so strict . we went in to our DD's class on open house night ( she is in Kindergarten this year.) We asked teh teacher right up front that night would she be ok with , aslong as we gave her enough notice, us pulling our DD's out for an extra week or so after christmas vacation as we always take the girls to see tehir grandmother in Florida in Jan. she said not a problem. she said she understood not being able to go due to my DBF's work schedule and the fact that once school lets out for teh summer it is hurricane season. i truly hope you have a magical time on your trip and not let the silly rule ruin your good time.

[MickeyMousse]

Last year I took both of my DS's-one in Kindergarten and the other in 5th grade-out for our trip for 10 days. My oldest missed the state assessments, but I informed both of their teachers and principals 2 months in advance. Both teachers had whatever work they had to do ready for them on their last day and my oldest was able to make up the state test the week he returned.
Next year we will be gone for another 10 days, but I will only be dealing with my youngests 1st grade teacher as we decided to pull our oldest out of public school and started homeschooling.
I agree that education is important but so is family time. You never know what tomorrow could bring.

[Faver]

Not to stir the pot, but is taking kids out of school for family trips a fairly new thing?

I made it all the way through school (K-12) going on vacations and trips only during school breaks and over the summer. My parents never took us out of school for any reason other than a funeral or if we were sick.

I think the answer is yes and no. When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's, my parents took me and my brother out of school a week early (near Christmas vacation) to visit family and go to Disney, we just did it, and made up our class work. My Mom always told our teachers up front.

I think what's different now is that things are so expensive, and if the only time you can go to WDW is value season, which is never during a school break, then parents take advantage of the lower cost, in order to have that experience with their family.

Go Disney

[luvdiznee]

I'm about to send a note to DD's guidance counselor about this very thing. I have already discussed it with her and she said she will pass the note to the teachers.

[Georgesgirl1]

If I were a teacher, I would have to think that doing extra work for students who miss school is part of my job. Not extra. I know teachers are all union members now, but remember your not dealing with parts in a factory, you are dealing with infinite situations and extra work is not always extra. It should be expected.

I would be careful about saying all teachers are union members. I am not and proud of it!

I will always be fine about giving kids their make-up work when they get back, but I am not going to take time away from my family to stay later than the hour or two (at least) that I already stay past what I have to everyday so that I can get that packet of work done before a child leaves for vacation.

That's right....in my plush teacher job I stay later each day and work more at home than I ever did when I worked in the corporate world! I also make less now than I did then, but I am 100% more satisfied with what I have done at the end of each day. Almost every teacher I know works "extra" each and everyday to give their students the best learning environment they can. So before you start off about what teachers do and don't do maybe you should drive past your kid's school about 2 or 3 hours after teachers are allowed to leave and see how many of their cars are still there working in their classroooms, meeting with parents, or helping kids with a tough assignment.

[Puppy Mom]

I think that more families take big expensive family vacations than used to years ago, including Disney.

In the dark ages when I was a kid most family vacations were of the pile the kids in the station wagon and head to the lake or the beach type.

I think that summer used to be THE family vacation time and this issue just didn't come up as much.

Regarding the earlier mention of teachers being in a union, I have some personal experience with why that is because my father was the president of the local teachers union for a few years.

In my hometown, working as unskilled labor on the factory line at the local glass bottle plant paid better than being a teacher. My father often had to take a second job to pay for a car repair or a medical emergency ( yes teacher's insurance stunk).

These days teachers make decent money in most places (as they should for being responsible for your children's education) and that is due to the union.

[Jeff]

Ok. We have had one warning which has been totally ignored. This thread is not about teachers, teacher pay, dedication to work and kids or Unions.

This thread is about taking kids out of school and school attendance policy. If discussion continues to stray into broad generalizations that are going to obviously upset others this thread will be closed.

[Tiggerlovr9000]

My two dd's just attended a furneral for their 17 year old friend who died in a car accident last week. Life is definitely to short. Take the trip and try to be polite to the school as possible. That old adage about honey instead of vinegar will probably go a long way.

[Jeff G]

We've pulled our kids out of school for one week every year since my DD started school and she's now in 7th grade. Part of the reason we pull our kids out is my work schedule (I'm a mortgage loan officer and do my own processing so going on vacation during the busier months of February - August isn't an option), part is it's cheaper in September and part because it's less crowded. As you can see, I'm honest about why I pull my kids out and part is purely selfishness.

I sit on our school board and am friends with many of the teachers who have taught my kids. A few of the teachers are not happy that we do this every year because they feel we are taking away from our kids learning time in school. A few of the other teachers support my decision and have no problems with it.

My kids are growing up super fast and will spend 13+ years in school. If they miss a week a year to spend quality family time with their parents & siblings so be it. The work they miss in one week can be made up and we make sure it is, the week we spend together as a family cannot if missed. My kids do well in school and that isn't always because they are super inelligent, we make them work hard and are very involved. We also make sure when we come back we cover any new work and make sure they understand what they missed. Our teachers have never penalized our kids for being gone but if they were to I would still choose to pull my kids out. If my kid is taught right with good moral values and a good sense of family a B instead of an A isn't going to change who they are later in life. My job as a parent is to raise my kids and I feel I'm best raising them by being a close knit family who spends quality time together.

[thrillme]

I too will be taking my DS out for vacation for a couple of days. He'll be in school half the day on Wednesday then he'll be out Thursday and then he'll be out Friday (which is a half day anyway and most teachers don't schedule anything they pretty much watch a movie and go to lunch). A holiday is on Monday so I just figured it would be one time to try Disney at a "different" time of the year. He's in 7th and I've given a heads up to his advisory teacher and I'm going to keep my fingers crossed there won't be any other issues with the rest of the teachers. He never misses school unless he's sick and now perhaps he'll miss a couple of hours due to ortho appointments (I alternate mornings and afternoons so no one class takes all the hits).

HOWEVER...I do understand that not all parents are as concerned about their child's well being as the members on this board. I've got a couple friends of mine who has told me some absolute horror stories.... I don't know WHY these people were even allowed to breed.

It's ridiculous that teachers have to deal with these days...The problem though...their parents don't care. Most teachers LOVE kids and they LOVE making a difference and I have no doubt if they can change the life of one child by imposing the rules they will. It's just sad that all of us get punished.

[Sunshine1010]

Advice:

Be honest. Talk to everyone involved. If there are negative consequences, then you have to make a decision.

Simple as that.

I'm not here to judge, to scold, to bash....just to support a Mom's dilmena in making a decision.

YOU do what is right for YOUR family. Period.

Good Luck....and try not to stress over it too much.

[LauraleeH]

I took my son out for 5 days when he was in Kindergarten to go to WDW. Told the Principal, told the teacher......

....the Attendance Supervisor threatened to put me in jail if I did it again.

Holy cow, that is when my kid would be pulled out of school and home-schooled.

[Sunshine1010]

he he.....trust me, we thought about it. If it happens again...we will.

[dnickels]

Wow, tough situation. I think I can sympathize with both sides on some level.

From a gut level, yes it seems like schools should be willing to work with responsible parents and students, but they have so much to deal with that they can't possibly ever know who the truly responsible ones are and who just plain doesn't care. As someone said earlier, some years a teacher might be able to breeze through a particular subject in a day and other years it might take a week for the students to 'get' it. Then there's the situation of a child who made the effort to attend school (but maybe gets sick or has a family situation that causes them to miss time) getting an F for their 14 missed days while another child with the same number of missed days (but 5 of them at Disney) gets to pass.

Has anyone on the board spent a significant amount of time in countries that outperform (without getting into the methodology of those performance metrics) the US in educating kids? I don't mean this as a flame, I'm just genuinely curious if parents in a country like Japan would even consider taking their kids out of school for a Disney vacation.

[brownie]

It's a good idea to check on your school's policy for vacations before scheduling trips during school time. Some schools have policies that allow this, but if your school doesn't you sort of stuck with it if you're still going to take your kids out. I feel the policies should be flexible and it should only become a problem for you if you abuse it during school time.

[disneyfan328]

We had some issues similar to this when we went to WDW last year. For our families situation we have decided that due to the passing of my father 3 years ago and the vacation to the beach that we never got to take with him that we won't miss any opportunites to be together as a family. IMHO school can be made up. Life is short and if someone dies they are not coming back. You never know what can happen today or tomorrow so live life to the fullest and do what you can to give your family and children the best family and education that YOU can. don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

We typed up a letter stating these facts and also did use some education things. We taught our 2 youngest to read maps and help us plan out transportation routes, they had money to budget, we taught about timing and used various math and social skills while there. We talked in epcot about new ways to grow things and how to conserve and recycle and introduced the kids to several new ways to say hello and goodbye. Our school accepted the letter and stated that they abscenses would be excused but ONLY if all work was made up within 5 days of our return. Our kids were in K and 2nd grade. Our sons K teacher sent home a work pack to be completed which he did and our daughters teacher stated that upon her return if there was anything necessary for her to do she would give it to her then. Nothing came home in the 2 days after she returned to school so I emailed the teacher to find out what needed ot be made up since we only had 3 days left. She asked me if we had a good time and i stated yes. She said that's all thats important and _______(insert childs name here) is doing just fine with where we are and there is nothing else she needs to do. I was shocked as I had been told that this particular teacher was very strict and I expected to be given work to be made up. it was very nice. my DD said that she was asked to tell about her favorite parts of the trip and had we done anything special which she agreed to do in front of the class and that was it.

YOU do what YOU need to do for you and your family to have what YOU feel is necessary. Don't worry about what others think. It is YOU and YOUR FAMILY that are important but know that whatever you decide that the schools laws and rules are just that and you will have to do what they say as far as making up the work or taking the days as unexcused. My advise is to explain the situation to them and see if something can be worked out. If not then just deal with whateve consequences there will be. It will be more than worth it in the end.

[Ian]

One moderately ironic thing I see in all this is that school districts are constantly bemoaning the lack of parental involvement in their kid's lives.

I guess they're only interested in family time and parental involvement when it suits them (and their test scores) or when it involves the parents and kids being holed up in the dark doing reams and reams of pointless homework.

[Boojum]

What's really difficult about this situation is that rules can't be adjusted. I wish schools could use common sense and say "Well, we know these are responsible parents and children, so we can give permission to miss school."

But, if this is done, the irresponsible parents are going to raise Cain. Therefore, rules are pretty much administered blanket-style. Life isn't fair.

[Disney Doll]

Luckily the attendance policy in my child's district is not too bad so this is something I won't have to worry about. However, we plan to continue our annual trips to WDW during the school year.

I was a public school teacher and I do value education, but I also value family time. I for one never minded providing what assignments I could ahead of time for families that let me know about an upcoming absence. I was required to have lesson plans made out in advance anyway so this was not extra work. My biggest gripe with these super strict policies is that I believe grades should be merit based not punitive. An assignments should receive an "F" if the student submitted failing work. Missed work should be made up and graded according to the quality of the work. And yes if you make the decision you accept the consequence, but in some cases the consequences are just plain silly . Education is not a one sized fits all endeavor so these policies that paint everything in black or white don't always make sense.

I know if I were the original poster I would go ahead with my trip and be completely honest about it. Then, I would start making contacts with all the appropriate people- school board, state government etc. because all policies can be changed. If I was not able to get the situation resolved I might have to consider whether I still wanted my child to be a part of that school district.

I also have to agree with Ian. I taught in some pretty rough neighborhoods, the kinds where kids fend for themselves and parents can't be bothered to parent. I know what lack of parental involvement is like and I would have been thrilled to hear from a parent who was planning some good quality family time even if it did mean missing school. Many of my parents looked at school as free daycare and were always ready to get rid of their kid for the day. Again, one size clearly does not fit all.