Disney sends fired worker home to Botswana

[big blue and hairy]

Maybe it was the union that fed the story to the paper. In that case you know that union will make the employee look like a saint.

Well...duh (that's pointed at myself, not you). I don't know why I didn't think of that.

[lockedoutlogic]

Ok.....this one is not worth getting into too deeply in a "family" environment such as this board....

But....ask yourself a couple of questions:

If you pay somebody federal minimum....guarantee them only 32 hours....REQUIRE that they pay weekly rent payments for housing that is provided by the employer and is deducted from pay - no exceptions

what do you have?



I know that many if not "most" that work on the college program and international programs say it was the greatest experience they ever had.....

and if you have personal experience with this YOU KNOW WHY

But you also know how it's set up....it's not like a summer job for the college kids....its basically an expensive prolonged wild and free vacation....which the parents finance the vast majority of the time.

The internationals (i worked with many) were the more affluent and economically equipped individuals that the recruiters could find in respective countries-whenever possible....again.....the pay not being much of an issue.

And even the premise....internship credit....real life experience....is a facade.

There is no education component whatsoever....particularly to the college programmers.....

Again....if you have any experience you know what i'm talking about.

Because the kids have fun.....doesn't really change the reality of what is going on....

It is cheap, mass labor that disney counts on to fill out there ranks at practically no cost (i'll leave the sweet deal they got from the Clinton era education bills out of it) whatsoever.....but i've said enough

[big blue and hairy]

Ok.....this one is not worth getting into too deeply in a "family" environment such as this board....

But....ask yourself a couple of questions:

If you pay somebody federal minimum....guarantee them only 32 hours....REQUIRE that they pay weekly rent payments for housing that is provided by the employer and is deducted from pay - no exceptions

what do you have?

Aside from the fact that Disney would be paying Florida minimum at least, you would have basically the same college program that any other hotel who wants an international component in their hotel. So, what's your point?

[lockedoutlogic]

Aside from the fact that Disney would be paying Florida minimum at least, you would have basically the same college program that any other hotel who wants an international component in their hotel. So, what's your point?

my point is that they are in fact being paid below minimum wage rate when you factor in the mandatory housing fees...

If they were to provide the housing....which is really the decent thing to do.....then i would have very little quams with the programs....but they don't....

or they could provide freedom of choice...which of course they do not

so in essence...you have young "adults" (and i use that term liberally) thousands of miles away from home with what might amount to not enough cash in their pockets to buy sufficient food....let alone anything else.

They give you the numbers when you accept....i'm not exaggerating here.

So i'm not saying anyone is forced into it....they do it willingly.....but it weeds out many potential individuals because they can't financially swing it.....

And as i stated before.....it's a pretty well know "secret" why everyone has the time of their lives......

right?

And in most ways they are simply commodities.....very cheap (federally subsidized) in the case of the college program.....and doing tasks that don't have any longterm value to the student....

or are you differing from my assessment that picking up litter from Epcot and parking cars in the MGM parking lot is somehow more valuable and noble than i'm giving it credit for?

[kakn7294]

If I can get back to the original post, from the brief research I did on the internet, I'm going to assume he was here on an H-2B Visa. Persons working in the US under that type of Visa who are fired from their jobs have 10 days to either find a new job or return to their home country at the reasonable expense of their former employer. Disney was only following the letter of the law on this matter by sending him home after firing him regardless of the fact that this is pending a union investigation.

[big blue and hairy]

my point is that they are in fact being paid below minimum wage rate when you factor in the mandatory housing fees...

If they were to provide the housing....which is really the decent thing to do.....then i would have very little quams with the programs....but they don't....

or they could provide freedom of choice...which of course they do not

so in essence...you have young "adults" (and i use that term liberally) thousands of miles away from home with what might amount to not enough cash in their pockets to buy sufficient food....let alone anything else.

They give you the numbers when you accept....i'm not exaggerating here.

So i'm not saying anyone is forced into it....they do it willingly.....but it weeds out many potential individuals because they can't financially swing it.....

And as i stated before.....it's a pretty well know "secret" why everyone has the time of their lives......

right?

And in most ways they are simply commodities.....very cheap (federally subsidized) in the case of the college program.....and doing tasks that don't have any longterm value to the student....

or are you differing from my assessment that picking up litter from Epcot and parking cars in the MGM parking lot is somehow more valuable and noble than i'm giving it credit for?

My differing comes from one thing. The fact that you make it sound like Disney is doing something awful that only they do. The pay and housing is a part of any college program at resorts, whether it's Disney, Four Sesons, or anyone else. That was my point last post, and that's my point this post.

And to use one of your comments, to say that some one is being paid below minimunm wage when you factor in housing is well...silly. Do you expect them to pitch a tent?

[lockedoutlogic]

My differing comes from one thing. The fact that you make it sound like Disney is doing something awful that only they do. The pay and housing is a part of any college program at resorts, whether it's Disney, Four Sesons, or anyone else. That was my point last post, and that's my point this post.

And to use one of your comments, to say that some one is being paid below minimunm wage when you factor in housing is well...silly. Do you expect them to pitch a tent?

Oh...I'm not calling Disney evil in any way here....or saying they operate more to their advantage than similar programs elsewhere....

I'm saying it's cheap, mass produced labor that provides little in the way of longterm education....

I speak mainly of the college program.....the international program basically is what it is....

[Polynesian Dweller]

If I can get back to the original post, from the brief research I did on the internet, I'm going to assume he was here on an H-2B Visa. Persons working in the US under that type of Visa who are fired from their jobs have 10 days to either find a new job or return to their home country at the reasonable expense of their former employer. Disney was only following the letter of the law on this matter by sending him home after firing him regardless of the fact that this is pending a union investigation.

Thanks Kathy for trying to put this back to the OP. Maybe those who want to debate about Disney's quality as an employer could start another thread to fight that out in and let this one get back on topic.

There has been some interesting material in this thread including your post that illuminates the law a bit more for us. I also think one of the best was about the workings of HR departments. I have to agree with my past experience in management that there is undoubtedly a lot more that can't be shared by the employer. Privacy laws prevent the employer from revealing information. Unions knowing that the employers hands are tied often try to pressure the employer by releasing things to the media they know the employer cannot fully respond to without breaking the law. The employer is then made out to be nasty without a means of response. Its a very standard negotiating practice.

[lockedoutlogic]

Thanks Kathy for trying to put this back to the OP. Maybe those who want to debate about Disney's quality as an employer could start another thread to fight that out in and let this one get back on topic.

There has been some interesting material in this thread including your post that illuminates the law a bit more for us. I also think one of the best was about the workings of HR departments. I have to agree with my past experience in management that there is undoubtedly a lot more that can't be shared by the employer. Privacy laws prevent the employer from revealing information. Unions knowing that the employers hands are tied often try to pressure the employer by releasing things to the media they know the employer cannot fully respond to without breaking the law. The employer is then made out to be nasty without a means of response. Its a very standard negotiating practice.

Ok...back to the original thread....

whether or not the claims were valid and any sort of due process that should be followed is irrelevant.

Disney will summarily and often times arbitrarily dismiss a college or international program member in the blink of an eye.

In the case of an IP....they are following the rules by shipping him out per US immigration laws within...i believe...24 hours.

So really the only question here was if the situation was handled properly.....and that we'll never know....as it is a shut case, the person has been removed....

the unions have zero power....so they will let it go as well....

This is a dead story

[3Cabsfan]

1Disneynut knew exactly what I was saying. The company owes everyone of their cast members a paycheck for work that is performed. I can guarantee you there is more to this story than has been let out to the public. Disney is simply taking actions against someone they believe did wrong. He/she comes to work for the company, performs the work and gets paid. On top of that, Disney offers great benefits. Now the person may claim he/she is innocent, Disney investigates and then takes action. So many times we see things from the outside and simply assume the company is wrong because they are the company and not an individual. Six months down the road, something happens again and Disney is the one that is run up the flagpole....I'm sure this person was completely innocent, Disney was just looking for a reason to send them home, they made up this story and paid someone to make the accusation, and then sent him home. Happens all the time. No way this person was guilty Annettefan, you are probably right.

[Ed]

....I'm sure this person was completely innocent, Disney was just looking for a reason to send them home, they made up this story and paid someone to make the accusation, and then sent him home. Happens all the time. No way this person was guilty Annettefan, you are probably right.

You don't REALLY believe that, do you?

That's a ridiculously outrageous accusation, and I'd sure like to see some factual evidence that it "happens all the time".

Disney may not be the world's most benevolent employer, but if there's one thing I can say with absolute certainty about them, they're not STUPID.

[kakn7294]

I'm sure this person was completely innocent, Disney was just looking for a reason to send them home, they made up this story and paid someone to make the accusation, and then sent him home. Happens all the time. No way this person was guilty Annettefan, you are probably right.

You are being sarcastic, right?

[Crow]

had to read this as thats where my ex is from......and shes a CM

[AnnetteFan]

1Disneynut knew exactly what I was saying. The company owes everyone of their cast members a paycheck for work that is performed. I can guarantee you there is more to this story than has been let out to the public. Disney is simply taking actions against someone they believe did wrong. He/she comes to work for the company, performs the work and gets paid. On top of that, Disney offers great benefits. Now the person may claim he/she is innocent, Disney investigates and then takes action. So many times we see things from the outside and simply assume the company is wrong because they are the company and not an individual. Six months down the road, something happens again and Disney is the one that is run up the flagpole....I'm sure this person was completely innocent, Disney was just looking for a reason to send them home, they made up this story and paid someone to make the accusation, and then sent him home. Happens all the time. No way this person was guilty Annettefan, you are probably right.

I'm not saying Disney had it out for him or anything like that, I'm just saying that this is a sticky situation that seems to be very he said she said and it doesn't seem like this particular CM was given much chance to back himself up. Disney does have a tendency to jump the gun when it comes to terminations, especially in situations where they feel like they're at risk of of some kind of scandel. Which is understandable and all, but there have been plenty of times they've had to reinstate CM's after an initial termination because the CM was found not to be at fault. I think the CM should get the same benefit of the doubt that everyone is willing to give Disney as a company.

[gueli]

OK, so there is an accusation.
none of us were there so we can only speculate- maybe he touched her, maybe it was accidental, maybe someone else saw it happen, and maybe just maybe there is photographic proof.
Company investigates- decides behavior was inappropriate even if it was an accident. The company needs to protect itself- if it does nothing it could face a sexual harrasment lawsuit, or if he does anything else they are liable.
now the fun, he files a gievance with the union. It is the unions job to protect him. It does not make the union right or wrong - they are doing their job.
The company offers him a ticket home- if he manages to take another job, the way i read the post by kakn7294- then wdw is no longer responsible for the transportation home- so what is the best course for him ? Do we know if he could have delayed that flight, would he have had a place to stay (no longer a WDW employee, WDW is not going to let him stay in employee/student housing). Did he take the ticket and go home because it was the best situation for him ?
WDW has to cover their corporate buts.
The union has to protect its workers.
The male former employee - has little choices, but probably choose the best one for him- the ticket home. maybe it is not what he wants, but it probably is the best for him.
It does not make WDW the bad guy, & the union has no choice- they try their hardest- but their member is no longer in the country.
The best thing the union could do is to negotiate into their next contract a way to avoid the employee being shipped home before a quick arbitration/grievence procedure is compleated.


Another comment- you cant factor in housing costs (even if manditory) into someones wage to declare that they are making below minimum. technically once you hit taxes, it is below minimum....its a bad argument.
Again it is something that a UNION would have to negotiate for (that is the amount of the starting salary for students/exchanges/foreign people (or those covered by this)

[casey@bat]

Is Florida a "Fire at Will" state? Georgia is. I think this means you can fire someone without giving a reason why. So if Florida is, then they can just say "bye, bye" and not give you a reason. I don't know if the union affects this or not.

[goofgal]

Is I think this means you can fire someone without giving a reason why.

This is not exactly true. There are federal statutes concerning discrimination. The penalties are severe, and leave the employer open to huge jury awards if there is even a WHIFF that the termination was due to race, sex, age, national origin, or any other protected reason.

For instance, I am a Maryland state employee and am considered "at will" (in other words I don't get the job protections that most state employees get). In theory this means I can be let go at any time with no reason. However, in practice, our HR department will not let any manager terminate an employee without substantial written documentation of the issues, verbal warnings, written warnings (signed by the employee), etc. Obviously if the situation was egregious (threatening people, etc.) these can slide a bit, but for the most part, it's documentation, documentation, documentation.

[3Cabsfan]

Sorry for the confusion, I was being sarcastic. I'll be the first to admit Disney is not a perfect company, but they are a great company to work for! So many complain, but stay on. I don't get it.