What do you think Disney is doing, exactly ?

[mrte62]

On another Board, there is a column called "Disney Declining by Degrees." It makes for interesting reading.

[Dixie Springs]

Yikes - it just took a political turn! My crystal ball has the following prediction for this thread:


Well, there's probably enough info/opinion on the topic to close 'er up anyway.

[lockedoutlogic]

[QUOTE=Camping Mom;1694671]

I agree that it is very frustrating to say the least....here's
don't underestimate political change either....as whoever wins the whitehouse is bound to bring as many drawbacks to the movers and shakers in the financial sector as they will stabilizing factors......a realitively inexperienced "left winger" who nobody really knows too well....or a tow the line moderate-rightwinger who is every bit as much of a fuddy duddy as Dole in 96 and has had to make a complete 180 roundabout on practically everything to pander to his "base".....
neither will get into the west wing without the economy taking a heavy thrashing....

Ummm...did we get off base a bit here?

kinda...apologies.....

but government change is a big economic factor....that is the point

[BrerSchultzy]

My family were there at the end of June. It was great. We loved every second of it. And I'm one of those people who remember taking the monorail to see EPCOT be built...when there was one park, one water park, Discovery Island, two hotels and a campground. And in 25 years, it has become a destination where I can't see everything in 7 days, so we're contemplating an 8th day for our next trip.

Sure, it's frustrating to see things go away. But in truth, have they really taken away that much? It's not like they're shutting Fantasmic down...they're just reducing the number of shows (and there's no confirmation that they'll have any fewer shows in peak times). Okay, so Pocahontas closed...but Nemo just opened up (and we couldn't even sniff the front door of that one this trip). Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse are gone...and I'm not unconvinced that they won't find new life elsewhere...but when I did go to see them, I felt pretty lonely. And they've given us plenty recently...Toy Story Mania, new Pirates, New Haunted Mansion, Finding Nemo (ride AND show)...

October is usually "announcement month" for Disney, and by then they'll have a pretty good grasp on numbers for the "off season". If things look good, they'll expand...if not, they'll keep cutting costs.

Personally, I'd rather they got rid of a few attractions and liabilities than cut back on maintenance or cast members in other areas...especially the cast members in the Dole Whip stand. KEEP THEM NO MATTER WHAT...I'll pay their salaries if I have to, but I'll be getting my Dole Whip.

Anyway, let's not look so glum. Things ain't so bad. And pretty soon we'll hear about some new thing that gets us all excited to go back again.

[FiremanDisney]

Things change. I really dont see any issues with what Disney is doing.
Actually, I think overall things at Disney are improving greatly.
Closing P.I. was IMHO, a GREAT thing.
As for the economic issues. And the slow down in the economy....
It has, imho, bottomed out and things are looking up!

[Puppy Mom]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I LOVE these kinds of discussions and so many of you make such well thought out points.

Having been the manager of budgeting and forecasting for a company several years back, I can tell you that I believe Disney is doing EXACTLY what they should be doing.

All intelligently run companies must constantly review their own product offering and the demand for it and adjust. If they don't, they die. They also have to review their most profitable demographics and determine not only how many customers they need to draw in, but WHICH customers they draw in. This involves looking at the usage figures. Believe me, Disney is not going to close anything that is a huge success for them unless doing so will be even more of a success. Of course we all have our personal favorites that we miss.

I could be mistaken, but I believe that PI has been drawing a very heavily youngish, local demographic with a bit too many of questionalbe character and motivation. They drink and dance but they don't shop and they sure don't spend hundreds on souvenirs.

I think that many of us tend not to understand that the business cycle of an exterprise of Disney's size is MUCH longer that a year or two. Whoever talked about looking at things in a 5 year window is spot on, maybe even longer.

From a purely emotional side I have to say that I have NEVER been disappointed in a Disney trip (well maybe that one where my now ex husband was behaving like a giant jerk). But then my signature quote IS that most folks are about as happy as they choose to be.

I have never been able to take in all of the wonderful things there are to do and see at Disney. I ALWAYS wish my vacation was longer because THERE IS SO MUCH TO DO.

I wonder if the fact that some of us get to go so often makes us a bit jaded.

I want to be able to go to Disney as long as I live. If they have to ratchet things down for just ONE YEAR in order to preserve it forever, then I say go for it.

[GrumpyFan]

Well said PuppyMom - I wish more people would dispense with some of their emotions here and look at it from the business perspective that Disney is facing right now. Point being, when numbers drop, or in this case, are forecasted to drop, you have to adjust/cut somewhere. When the numbers go back up, you simply re-adjust. I'm bothered that they're cutting back too, but I completely understand and fully expect them to do these kinds of things when things slow down. With the exception of Pocohontas and PI, I don't see this as a permanent sort of thing, and those 2 things really don't effect me.

[MushuGrl]

I'm of the same accord, maybe because I don't go as much as some. This will be the first time I've ever done back to back years at WDW. Comparing the cutbacks of the past month to the things we've gotten within the last, say, two years...I can't be disappointed.

I'm fine with the Fantasmic cutbacks - my first Disneyland trip (2006), and my last WDW trip (2007), there was no Spectromagic at ALL the entire time I was there. I saw no fireworks at the Kingdom at DL. (And while I'm at it...no Fantasmic either! They only ran it on weekends!) At least we know, with careful planning (and weather permit) we WILL get to see WDW's Fantasmic.

Until my dole whip is thrown at me, until I'm piledriven through the concrete by Mickey Mouse, until the bus drivers tell me I'm WALKING to the park, until Spaceship Earth rolls off it's base and smushes me...I will still be happy with WDW.

[fielin]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I LOVE these kinds of discussions and so many of you make such well thought out points.
(...)

From a purely emotional side I have to say that I have NEVER been disappointed in a Disney trip (well maybe that one where my now ex husband was behaving like a giant jerk). But then my signature quote IS that most folks are about as happy as they choose to be.

I have never been able to take in all of the wonderful things there are to do and see at Disney. I ALWAYS wish my vacation was longer because THERE IS SO MUCH TO DO.

I wonder if the fact that some of us get to go so often makes us a bit jaded.

Okay, this is going to be long, brace yourself.

First of all, I want to say that, as the OP, I am indeed very happy with the way this thread has grown. Everyone has been Soooooo respectful and nice. See, that's the reason why I love it here !

Thanks to everyone for not turning this into a Disney bashing or disney worshipping thread, you rock indeed.

The first time I came to WDW, I spent a week there, and couldn't do everything. The second time, I spent six days, thinking that I would be able to see everything I hadn't the first time.

Nope ! And I have to agree with you, even with those changes, there still is quite a lot to do and see. And, yes, change is good. As I explained in another post, I am one of those who think that ANY change is good.

Cancelling most of the fantasmic shows makes perfect sense. Fireworks are VERY exepensive. There are a lot of artists involved, too, and a technical staff which must be quite large too. And of course, I don't think anyone goes to DHS just for Fantasmic.

The impact on the crowds will be minimal and the saving is huge (think 63% of the weekly price of the show !).

The same can be said about Pocahontas (except this time they will save 100% of the price).

Character meals ? This restaurants don't need this incentive to attract people. In fact, as you know, the Dining Plan has allowed nearly every restaurant on the resort to be filled to capacity every single day of the year. So, again, you can expect a minimal impact on frequentation of these restaurants, for an optimized rentability (no more characters = less castmembers involved in the meal = great savings for Disney).

And I won't even go into Pleasure Island, as there are a lot of incentive to close the clubs and open shops.

But I have to wonder why we should be so understanding. Having no interest in Disney's profits, I am left, as a guest, to pay the same for less.

Where Disney is making huge savings, I will probably, next year (or the years after), have to pay more for my park tickets (eventhough I will not see Pocahontas or Fantasmic !), the same to enjoy a meal at Garden Grill (eventhough there won't be any characters), and the same for my Waterparks and More options.

As a professional, everything makes sense, and I do understand what Disney is doing. But as a customer, I don't have to. They will be asking more for less, and try to convince me that their vacations are affordable. They will save money on my vacations.

And what amazes me is that when they announced that they would be taking steps to protect the environment by saving on the A/C, on the water, on the energy, etc... I saw plenty of contributors who implied that this was just a big lie to save money while reducing the guest's enjoyment of their resort... And now everybody seem so understanding.

So, yes, I do understand what their immediate goal is (mo' money, less spending)... But, as a visitor, I don't think I SHOULD accept it. After all, I do not work for them (yet... )

[BrerSchultzy]

But I have to wonder why we should be so understanding. Having no interest in Disney's profits, I am left, as a guest, to pay the same for less.

This is a fabulous point (and well communicated), but we're paying more for less everywhere these days. In the past year, we're paying at least 33% more to drive anywhere, 20% more to feed our families, and I'm not even going to mention how much we spend at movies, for a sharply diminished product (Wall-E excepted).
Since Disney does have to cut costs, I'm glad they are being sensible about it (not going to the "one park a day is closed" option, or things like that). I am so understanding, because I would rather they cut back now than mortgage the future success of the park.

True, Disney is communicating this all wrong, treating its customers like idiots (cutting back on Fantasmic so we can all enjoy American Idol?....really?), but their business plan is very sensible. No, we don't have to be happy about it, but I don't think Disney is doing this to ostracize their fans...they're doing it to keep the parks magical (and relatively affordable...we spent less on a week in Disney World than her family spent for a week at the beach). And that I can understand. In fact, I appreciate it. I would just appreciate it more if they came out and told us the truth instead of feeding us this corporate-speak.

[Ian]

Honestly, I suspect some of these changes are being made to trim costs in certain areas in order to free up money to be spent in other areas.

I'm totally fine with the whole PI change. I hate Fantasmic, so I won't weep over that loss either.

Rumor has it some pretty big changes are coming to WDW over the next 5 years ... my hope is that these cost cuts are to help facilitate that slew of new and improved attractions.

[Puppy Mom]

I still think that some of you are looking at this in waaaay too short a time table. Some of us are on this site so often that it seems like we expect it to be the 24 hours cable news with new Disney news every hour on the hour. If one month from now they announce adding some things are all of the ones talking about a net loss in attractions going to take it back?

Geez folks, you COULD have also said in some time periods that Disney had ADDED attractions without closing anything or raising prices so you would have gotten MORE without paying for it. Now as a customer that sounds fine to me but I bet NONE of you would have commented on that.

The bottom line to me is that overall there is so much to do and see at Disney that closing Pocahontas and reducing the number of Fantasmics is not going to leave us all twiddling our thumbs wondering how to kill out ime.

For ME PI was a TOTAL waste of time. NOTHING there interested me and the only thing that the new plans for the space will mean to me is a little construction dust........ and there STILL is a ton to do at Disney.

Some of us love Fantasmic but are not interested in American Idol. Personally, fireworks bore me so maybe I think adding Idol and cutting back Fantasmic is getting TWO things in that time period for the week instead of one and is an improvement.

[lockedoutlogic]

Nobody is debating that companies try to trim costs and outlays in rough times......it is completely sound....

WDW is different....Disney World itself....not the walt disney corporation....

WDW.....even in it's worst of times.....is still a huge cash generator.....in fact....the primary generator for Disney....

so while cuts are expected.....WDW is in the unique situation that they never "need" to cut costs.....

what they "need" to do is find more staffing....through outsourcing, consolidation, or pulling in better help with higher pay and benefits.....

they do need to do that for the future.....

but they don't need to save on WDW itself.....management does use bad economic conditions falsely......there.....

i know they use the money from parks to support all their other endeavours......

but from an ideological perspective.....i don't really wish to subsidize ABC or movies that flop......or Disney/ESPN/Hannah Montana mobile......

that's an idealist's perspective.....i know the pragmatic reality is that they will cut at parks to follow "trends" and "forecasts"....

[Mousemates]

Rumor has it some pretty big changes are coming to WDW over the next 5 years ....

Now theres a good thread for you to start.

[StrangeCargo]

A completely relevant article from Forbes.com:

With the Walt Disney Co.'s dependence on consumers' travel and entertainment budgets, many on Wall Street expected the company to fall victim to weak consumer spending. Disney has proved skeptics wrong over the last six months, beating consensus profit estimates by more than 13% in the December and March quarters and showing healthy sales growth at its amusement parks.

But concerns about consumer spending have worsened, reflecting high energy prices and troubles in the labor and housing markets. Disney (nyse: DIS - news - people ) shares have retreated close to the two-year low reached in January, presenting a buying opportunity for patient investors.

While near-term profit growth will likely be sluggish. Disney is well positioned to deliver double-digit yearly growth over the long haul. Disney, a long-term buy, offers superior total-return potential over the next 24 to 36 months.

Park Performance

Disney's parks and resorts performed well in the year ended in March, with quarterly revenue growth ranging from 5% to 9%, including an 8% increase in the March quarter. Attendance rose at least 3% in each of the four quarters, and occupancy rates have averaged 89%.

Theme parks and resorts provided roughly 29% of revenue and 19% of profits in the six months ended in March. Disney credits the segment's 28% profit growth to interest in popular themes featured at the park, such as tie-ins to the Hannah Montana and High School Musical franchises.

Also contributing to growth is a focus on value-conscious travelers: 79% of Disney's rooms are now considered midpriced or low-priced, compared with less than half of the rooms in 1991. In addition, international parks, new vacation-club sales and a weak dollar have contributed to resort growth. The dollar's weakness attracts foreign tourists to the U.S. and keeps American vacationers in the country.

Long-Term Value

In the past, Disney's parks have tended to suffer more toward the end of recessions, as families put off travel until their finances looked better. The company expects a slowdown in park growth over the next year.

While, investors may need patience with Disney, the company still has plenty going for it. Media networks (41% of revenue, 50% of profits) are delivering strong results on healthy advertising sales, particularly at Disney's cable-TV stations. Despite disappointing results from this year's Prince Caspian release, studio entertainment (23% of revenue, 21% of profits) should perform well in coming quarters, thanks in part to the popularity of Wall-E. Disney plans to release 10 animated films over the next four years.
Finally, Disney's consumer products division (7% of revenue, 10% of profits) delivered revenue and profit growth of at least 20% in the six months ended March, helped by videogame launches.


Disney shares trade at 13 times estimated per-share earnings over the next 12 months, well below the five-year average forward price-to-earnings ratio of 17. Consensus estimates project per-share-profit growth of 21% in fiscal 2008, ending in September, and 6% in fiscal 2009. Disney's valuation and modest 2009 profit target reflect downbeat expectations for consumer spending, and leave plenty of room for upside surprises.

Excerpted from the July 21 issue of Dow Theory Forecasts.

[StrangeCargo]

For those of us with aversions to long articles filled with "money -talk," I call your attention to this statement from that article:

While near-term profit growth will likely be sluggish. Disney is well positioned to deliver double-digit yearly growth over the long haul. Disney, a long-term buy, offers superior total-return potential over the next 24 to 36 months.

Meaning basically, that in the financial world, Disney itself seems to be saying what has been repeated, over and over in this thread, times are slow, and in effect, belts must be tightened. However, they are also saying that they expect things to turn up not very long from now and Forbes adds its opinion that Disney maybe in a strong position to successfully weather the economic recession.

[StrangeCargo]

How refreshing it is to find an intelligent and balanced discussion on an internet message board! Thank you all for an enjoyable read.

I think there are compelling reasons to have faith in the new Disney management under Robert Iger. It was Iger who approved of the massive, billion-dollar expansion work for DCA in California. Think about it seriously, would such a move have been made if he and the rest of managment did not realize the absolute importance of adding new attractions and improving old ones to keep the parks and resorts filled with happy people?

The question that so many here have now is, "why no new attractions for WDW?" All we hear about is closures and reductions, so where's the new attractions? Funny thing is, we are not the only ones asking that question, nothing has been officially announced for Paris, or Hong Kong after each of the major attractions that just opened there either. And fans of those parks are wondering what's next? And here is the reason to have faith.

As new CEO of Disney, Iger has not even been in charge for 3 years, it takes that long or even longer to get major projects from planning stages to construction. Something is coming. We already just had Midway Mania built, the last project approved by the old administration, but rumors are flying high that major work is coming to all the resorts, including WDW. True, these are just rumors. But never in my "career" of browsing Disney fansites have I seen such strong concensus among the rumors. There are a few threads in this very forum discussing a few of these rumors. Bottom line, patience.

[BrerSchultzy]

StrangeCargo,
You bring up some great points. I somehow managed to neglect the fact that Iger's just getting started (and so too, by the way, is Lasseter, the major player in all this). Iger and "New Walt" Lasseter will not do things the way Eisner did. See, Eisner had a "Theme Park" mindset...release a new coaster every couple of years, with some other enhancements in other years.
Now, what Iger and Lasseter do will probably be brand new, and something we never thought of. In other words, I'm not only understanding of the slowdown, but now I'm really excited that this may be the "Transition Point" for the new administration in the Parks.

Or it's a simple cost-cutting move to improve stock portfolios.

I'll stay positive for now.

[StrangeCargo]

I'm really excited that this may be the "Transition Point" for the new administration in the Parks.

Yes exactly Schultzy. "Transition point." Things are being worked out, they just have not been announced yet and maybe they should not be since they are still being planned.

The only reason we have heard about the massive DCA overhaul from official announcements was because Disney wanted to gain public support from the voters of Anaheim regarding the affordable-housing-right-next-to-the-site-of-the-third-theme-park-debacle before voting season came. Which they did. And as we know, the city council withdrew from it's support of the developer. But had that not been an issue from the beginning, one wonders if the announcement would still have been made so early on.

So early was this announcement, that details contained in it have already been changed, for the better according to those in the know. And instead of budgets being slashed as they were just a few years ago, ride budgets are growing all the time! All of which is great news for Disney park fans. So maybe nothing has been announced yet for the other resorts around the world, but that in no way means that nothing is being worked on. And I believe that the management capable of making the kind of decision that has lead to DCA's billion-dollar improvement is one that has earned atleast a little bit of faith. And wherever there is faith, we also find optimism.

[fielin]

Well those last few messages really are optimistic !

I sooo hope that you are right ! I can't wait to see what's going to be announced in the next year timeframe !

Thank you for believing, you could make me a believer !