NEW THREAD STARTED, WITH SPOILERS. Harry Potter VII [Merged Threads]

[pshokie]

Well, I will give this one....and I think I will not highlight. Just this once. Cause while it could be considered a spoiler, it is merely a theory (that I stole ) but really really like.

There had to be someone else there that night. No other way for the news to get out. And JKR has confirmed this via a non-denial denial....

JKR: Go on, hit me with it.

MuggleNet (Last Question): Was there anyone else present in Godric's Hollow the night Harry's parents were killed?

JKR: No comment

.

The Potters were in hiding under the Fidelius Charm (who's the potter geek now!!! ). So no one could know where they were unless they were told by Wormtail (secret keeper). I am not going into the in&outs of who Wormtail would tell the secret to or why (rationale is too long - but in short he wrote it down and it was intercepted - ala Dumbledore and the #12 Grimauld Place note for Harry), but suffice to say atleast one of two people saw the note.

The first....bum-bum-baaaaaahhhhh: Snape.
Good/Evil, you pick. But it was not him. I can feel it in my bones (plus I think she actualy squashed that rumor - don't know why....)

The second......Frank Longbottom.

Wha??????????

Yep, you read that right. He was there. Not sure when he arrived, or what went down, but he was there.

How do I know? Again, the books.

What were Belatrix LeStrange, Rudolphus LeStrange and Barty Crouch Jr sent to Azkaban for?
The torture of the Longbottoms via the Cruciatus Curse.

Why?
Becuase these specific Death Eaters believed that Fank Longbottom was in possesion of information regarding the current where abouts of the Dark Lord. Check it out....Goblet of Fire, the chapter where Barty Jr is on trial (don't recall the chapter #).

Now, why would 3 Death Eaters think Frank Longbottom would know where Voldemort is or what happened to him???? Hmmmm....

And is just a coincidence that you happen to know exactly where Frank Logbottom is currently residing? St. Mungos.....hmmmmmm....

And do you think it is coincidence tha Dumbledore has already shown that it is possible to extract a memory from an "addled" mind, as he did with Morphin and Hokey in HBP? Hmmmmm......

[Disneyatic]

Very interesting and thought out theories Pshokie....
I am wondering, do you think that Frank Longbottom was there/involved for good or evil purposes??
Having him be there that night would add some twists and turns to the connection between Harry, Neville and Voldemort!

I would love to hear more on your horcrux theories....

[pshokie]

If I had to make a stab at it.....I would have to say he was there for "good" reasons. Probably to offer protection to the Potters should their location be divuldged. Last line of defense kinda thing. But for some reason, and this is where it gets foggy for me, he was unable to stop what happened, yet was able to see what happened.

That's where I show that I am not the writer of these books and have no idea what I am talking about!

I cannot figure out in my brain what went down or how it went down, but I believe Frank Longbottom was there. Simply because someone would have to be. And it would have to be someone who wanted to share the news with others. I cannot see any Death Eater going out and saying "Hey guess what? My boss is dead!!"

So I like the idea of Frank being there, I just cannot explain what happened...inside the house.

But I do like one theory about what happened inside the house....but that is another post.

As for Horcruxes....I will give credit where it is due. There are a lot of much more "enlightened" potter-freaks than I, and I merely agree/disagree with some of their findings/opinions. Some things I came to on my own (like the fact that the prophecy talks about 3 people not 2. And the third it refers to Snape, not Neville). Others, well, I had to be hit upside the head with the stupid stick befoire I said "duh".

And for that one, another quote:
MA = Melissa Anelli, The Leaky Cauldron
ES = Emerson Spartz, MuggleNet

MA: Here at the end you sort of get the feeling that we know what Harry's setting out to do, but can this really be the entire throughline of the rest of the story?

JKR: It's not all of it. Obviously it's not all of it, but still, that is the way to kill Voldemort. That's not to say it won't be extremely an torturous and winding journey, but that's what he's got to do. Harry now knows - well he believe he knows - what he's facing. Dumbledore's guesses are never very far wide of the mark. I don't want to give too much away here, but Dumbledore says, "There are four out there, you've got to get rid of four, and then you go for Voldemort." So that's where he is, and that's what he's got to do.

ES: It's a tall order.

JKR: It's a huge order. But Dumbledore has given him some pretty valuable clues and Harry, also, in the course of previous six books has amassed more knowledge than he realizes. That's all I am going to say.

ES: It seems like it would be impossible. If Harry had gone to the cave, he never could have done it on his own, it seems like.

JKR: Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books.

I feel like should offer homework....

This interview was done merely hours after the release of HBP. But I will leave time for those to speculate and guess. But I will post my answer tomorrow afternoon.

But to help, here is a hint....
It is "popular boards belief" (for lack of a better term) that this is in direct reference to the R.A.B. note & horcrux.......

And that is just one. Remeber she said "at least one"....

[Jasper]

Oh, and she's convinced that Ginny is done for. She's also convinced that Dumbledore is not really dead, but has sort of "graduated" to another level of being.
.

I do think you are correct about this. Since other charecters in paintings have taken bit roles in prior books and since they did mention that he was now appearing in a painting at the end of the last book, there is no reason Dumbledore can't at least be an advisor if not something more.

[Jasper]

I am just wondering if anyone knows how many pages Deathly Hallows is suppose to run?

I ask that question because after writing six prior episodes JKR has created so many different pieces to this story that I can't imagine giving a truly good wrap-up to so many different story lines in any short number of pages.

[bleukarma]

784 pages in the US edition.

[Toughbug]

I have no ideas but ya'll should read MuggleNet.com's What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7. It has good ideas, and it a couple hundred pages and with the ammount of days left, you should have enough time to buy it, and read it.

Good Theories Ya'll

[brewcrew26]

One of my former co-workers, also a potter-phile, gave me this theory:

JKR introduced a horcrux in each one of the books in the series. Here are my guesses to this theory:

Sorcerer's Stone: ?
Chamber of Secrets: Riddle's diary
Prisoner of Azkaban: Peter Pettigrew?
Goblet of Fire: Nangini
Order of the Phoenix: the locket with RAB
Half-Blood Prince: Gaunt's ring (destroyed by Dumbledore), Hufflepuff cup that Tom Riddle stole from Hepzibah Smith, and the tiara that Mrs. Weasley gives to Fleur for the wedding (could be a relic from Gryffindor or Ravenclaw?

Any thoughts on this theory and what the horcruxes could be in each book?

[pshokie]

I am just wondering if anyone knows how many pages Deathly Hallows is suppose to run?

I ask that question because after writing six prior episodes JKR has created so many different pieces to this story that I can't imagine giving a truly good wrap-up to so many different story lines in any short number of pages.

At this point I should explain: The founders for the two "premier" sites for Harry Potter (that were mysteriously referenced earlier, and maybe again later on inthis post ) had the opportunity to sit down with JKR just after HBP was released. She sat down with these two because she was "tired of the same old quesions". She wanted to be grilled by knowledgable people, even if her answer was "no comment". It would prove to her fans that she was infact asked certain questions that no reporter seemed to ask. (Most get stuck on "Will Harry end up with Hermione?" or some other drivel like that....) Anyway, this is the interview I keep quoting. And before long, I am going to post this whole interview piece by piece.....

So for the quote....

ES: If you had the opportunity to rewrite any part of the series so far, what would it be and why?

JKR: There are bits of all six books that I would go back and tighten up. My feeling is that Phoenix is overlong, but I challenge anyone to find the obvious place to cut. There are places that I would prune now looking back, but they wouldn't add up to a hugely reduced book, because my feeling is you need what's in there. You need what's in there if I'm going to play fair for the reader in the resolution in Book 7. One of the reasons Phoenix is so long is that I had to move Harry around a lot, physically. There were places he had to go he had never been before, and that took time - to get him there, to get him away. That was the longest non-Hogwarts stretch in any of the books, and that's really what bumps up the length. I'm trying to think of specifics, it's hard.

Back to me. My take on this: All of the books have all of the information that we need to find and destroy the Horcruxes. And as I stated earlier, I think the location of 3 has already been revealed. The fourth....I am waffling on. But I would bet a cool that what I think are "the 3" are correct. But I am not JKR so I can, and probably will, be very very wrong. There is only one place left to go (where we have not gone) and that is Godric's Hollow. But it was talked about enough, that it will not seem like she is "pulling this out of a hat" just to finish the story.

Which leads to this...

One of my former co-workers, also a potter-phile, gave me this theory:

JKR introduced a horcrux in each one of the books in the series. Here are my guesses to this theory:

Sorcerer's Stone: ?
Chamber of Secrets: Riddle's diary
Prisoner of Azkaban: Peter Pettigrew?
Goblet of Fire: Nangini
Order of the Phoenix: the locket with RAB
Half-Blood Prince: Gaunt's ring (destroyed by Dumbledore), Hufflepuff cup that Tom Riddle stole from Hepzibah Smith, and the tiara that Mrs. Weasley gives to Fleur for the wedding (could be a relic from Gryffindor or Ravenclaw?

Any thoughts on this theory and what the horcruxes could be in each book?

I've seen this kicked around a lot as well. Granted, different horcruxes have been assigned to differnet books by just about everyone. But I still hold to the fact that all of our Horcruxes has been "seen" just not "noticed". So yes, I belive there is a degree of validity to your theory.

I have no ideas but ya'll should read MuggleNet.com's What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7. It has good ideas, and it a couple hundred pages and with the ammount of days left, you should have enough time to buy it, and read it.

What was that website?? *cough* *cough*

Anyhoo, I will post what I think the Horcruxes are and their locations before the end of next week (maybe sooner) in spoiler-font. Just so I can ridiculed when I am completely and utterly wrong. But if Toughbug has read the aforementioned book, he already knows the "controversial" one.

[conorsmom2000]

I have no ideas but ya'll should read MuggleNet.com's What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7.

I'm so glad you mentioned this book!! Believe it or not, I bought it a few months ago and totally forgot about it! I wanted to wait until I re-read the series before I picked it up, and then it totally slipped my mind! Thanks to your post, I started flipping through it tonight.

Anyway, this is the interview I keep quoting. And before long, I am going to post this whole interview piece by piece.....

That's okay - it was an awesome interview! They asked some brilliant questions!

Anyhoo, I will post what I think the Horcruxes are and their locations before the end of next week (maybe sooner) in spoiler-font.

You know, I've always been thinking about what the horcruxes are that I hadn't put much thought into where they are - the locket, I believe we all know where it is (and presumably who R.A.B. was).... As for the others, well, I know the controversial theory you are speaking about and honestly, I'm not sure where I stand on that issue...hmmmm....but thinking about it more, it does make me wonder if JKR has ever answered certain questions about Godric Gryffindor....

But for some reason, and this is where it gets foggy for me, he was unable to stop what happened, yet was able to see what happened.

You mean kind of like how Harry was unable to stop what happened to Dumbledore, yet he was able to see what happened?? I'm not saying it's the same thing, I'm just saying that it's possible....or something similar along those lines happened...

[TiggeRia]

These are some fascinating theories that I had never thought of before! Great reading...

Anyway, just my . I believe that Harry, Ron, and Hermione will make it through to the end. One of the reasons that I think Harry will make it through is because I recall reading somewhere (not sure where) that the last word of the last chapter is the word scar. Now I know this doesn't necessarily mean that Harry will be alive, but for some reason, I just don't think she will kill him off.

Neville, on the other hand, is someone that I had not thought of before. After reading some posts about him, I definitely agree that the tie between him, Harry, and Voldemort will become more apparent and that he is definitely on the chopping block.

Snape, I believe, will redeem himself. I think he was just acting on Dumbledore's orders when he killed him, and that he will give his life to save Harry's in the end. Draco, I'm not so sure about...

I'm pretty sure that one of the Weasley's will go, there are just far too many of them to make it through. But will Percy return to the good side? Hagrid, I'm afraid might not make it, either.

As for the Horcruxes...I have several theories on what I think they are. Everyone pretty much knows about the locket and that RAB most likely refers to Regulus. However, I came across this in reading one day. What do you think?

Remember Dumbledore’s words to Harry, as the two of them successfully returned from their journey through Voldemort’s lake in the cave: “One alone could not have done it…” (577).

So “R.A.B.” might be the initials for a team of three wizards who took the Horcrux locket. Yet the enchanted boat which is necessary to cross from the shore to the island can detect magic, and will only allow a single adult wizard passenger. The boat does not prevent Harry from riding with Dumbledore because Harry is still underage, and thus his powers apparently do not “register” with the boat’s passenger detectors. (564). If so, it would seem impossible that three adult wizards could have ridden the boat. Were at least two of the “R.A.B” trio underage? Or did they just bring brooms so they could fly?

Moreover, whoever took the Horcrux would have needed to first empty the basin by drinking all its potion. So how did the basin get refilled with potion by the time Harry and Dumbledore arrived?

It goes on to try and say that Snape is RAB, which I don't agree with, but it does raise some good points. There had to have been two people to retrieve that locket and at least one of them had to be underage. The boat would not carry two wizards that were of age. I have no ideas as to who else might be involved with this, but I just thought I'd toss it out there.

[conorsmom2000]

because I recall reading somewhere (not sure where) that the last word of the last chapter is the word scar.

Actually, "scar" isn't the last word anymore. JKR said in that interview on Friday night that it had been for so long, but now it's not - it's close to the last word, but not the last word.

So “R.A.B.” might be the initials for a team of three wizards who took the Horcrux locket.

Hmmmm.....that's interesting! I've always been in the camp that believed R.A.B. to be Regulus Black, and I still am based on the fact that the note refers to "I"....the fact that it says "I found it, I destroyed it, I will be dead...." But, it didn't occur to me until last night, while reading the Mugglenet book, that it could not have been done alone. They suggest Kreacher, which is another interesting theory.....

[pshokie]

Hmmmm.....that's interesting! I've always been in the camp that believed R.A.B. to be Regulus Black, and I still am based on the fact that the note refers to "I"....the fact that it says "I found it, I destroyed it, I will be dead...." But, it didn't occur to me until last night, while reading the Mugglenet book, that it could not have been done alone. They suggest Kreacher, which is another interesting theory.....

Reading the Mugglenet book is about as close to a spioiler as you are gonna get, IMO. And thanks for getting the cryptic "controversial" item I was trying to sidestep. I was hoping to be both as vague and as specific as I could be at the same time. Glad to see see someone understood what I was trying to/not to say.

As for RAB..Well since the seal is broken.....
I'll post in white, just in case. Because I do consider this to be a spoiler [highlight to read]:

HBP, as well as all the other books, have to be translated into other languages. And there are times when words, names, spells, or phrases get lost in translation. Well, R.A.B. is one of them. During translation, it is rumored that JKR and her publishers were repeatedly asked what R.A.B. should be translated to. Well, everyone got their answer. Example, in spanish, it is R.A.N. why "N"? Because "negro" is "black" in spanish. This holds true for all translations. Portugese, Italian, German. etc. The last letter "B" was changed to the first letter of the lingual translation for black. So without official confirmation, that is about as close as you can get to saying R.A.B. is definitely Regulas A Black.

And that would be why I am in the R.A.B. = Regulas A Black camp.

Originally Posted by TiggeRia
As for the Horcruxes...I have several theories on what I think they are. Everyone pretty much knows about the locket and that RAB most likely refers to Regulus. However, I came across this in reading one day. What do you think?

Remember Dumbledore’s words to Harry, as the two of them successfully returned from their journey through Voldemort’s lake in the cave: “One alone could not have done it…” (577).

conorsmom2000 already touched on the Kreacher aspect. I think there is something to add even more credability to that but I have to go find it (back to mugglenet!). But I do subscribe to one thing, if R.A.B. is Regulas (which I believe) and he somehow managed to obtain the locket (which by the note shows he did). Then what did he do with it? Destroy it? Keep it? Hide it? From a story telling standpoint, Harry must confirm that at a minimum it has been destroyed; which means he must find it. And if it is not destroyed, well, he has to find it then also. So either way he has to find it. So where would it be????????

For the record, I do believe that JKR put a specifc series of events in the books to show that Harry has had the locket in the palm of his hand at one point during this series. As has Ron & Hermione. And that is as far as I will take that until this after noon (when the aforementioned homework is due! )

I think she did this in the fashion that she has done most of her "hints". She puts it in plain sight, but since you do not know what to look for, you do not see it. You gloss right over it. But upon re-reading....AHA! THERE IT IS!!!!!

For example, Sirius is first mentioned in the first chapter of SS/PS. The infamous prophecy that we heard about in OOTP (check a local theater for show times!) was actually referenced for th first time way back in POA. If I had the books with me I would quote the examples but I do not. But the point is, she has used this before, and you only see it when you re-read. Or another one....The vanishing cabinets that Draco repairs and uses in HBP...did you know that the cabinet was orignially broken by Peeves when Nearly Headless Nick had Peeves drop it on Filches office in order to allow Harry to "escape" being punished by Filch? (This is when Harry found the Kwickspell flyer on Filches desk.) Pretty cool, eh???

So snap to it! You anly have 9 days 14 hours 48minutes and 50 seconds to re-read the lot!

[ncscgirl2005]

Oh, and one more thing......Just wanted to add this to the discussion to give folks something to think about, and since it is all in the text I do not feel the need to use spoiler-font.

Halloween night at Godrics Hollow all those years ago.....
Voldemort shows up to the Potters.
He kills James.
He tells Lilly to step aside (3 times).
She refuses.
He kills her.
He tries to kill Harry.

The curse rebounds and kills/destroys Voldemort and the entire house. And leaves Harry with only a scar.

So here is the thought provoking question...
If Voldemort was turned into Vapormort (I love that cliche), James is dead, Lilly is dead, and Harry is just a baby........

How does everyone in the wizarding world find out what happened in less than 24 hours (when Harry is left upon the doorstep)??????

Hmmmmm......


I have a thought!!!! Pick me!! Pick me!!!!

Uggghhh....I pick you too. Hurry up and tell us!!!!!!! I'm anxious here.

[Disneyatic]

I have to admit that although I thought I was pretty HP savvy, after reading some of the other great conjectures I obviously have not done as much re-reading and research as I thought
I am VERY curious to know what the "controversial" horcrux could be?
Could the thinking be that Harry is somehow linked to it and therefore has to die in order for Voldemort to die???

[conorsmom2000]

And that would be why I am in the R.A.B. = Regulas A Black camp.

That was some really great info in your spoiler - I had never heard that before!! But, that definitely confirms what I already thought - that R.A.B. is Regulus!

if R.A.B. is Regulas (which I believe) and he somehow managed to obtain the locket (which by the note shows he did). Then what did he do with it? Destroy it? Keep it? Hide it?

I'm going to jump in and answer this one! (though, I think you know the answer already!!) I'm under the assumption, as are many, I believe, that the locket is the one referred to in OoTP when they are decontaminating the house - "also a heavy locket that none of them could open" (OoTP pg 116). But, you know for sure that Sirius threw away the medal that was mentioned right after the locket - so what did happen to the locket? If it went back into the cabinet, it's Harry's now, at what is now his house. But, was it thrown out? Did Kreacher make off with it (who may possibly know what it represents, if he was with RAB?) Or is JKR just throwing out a red herring for us?

I think she did this in the fashion that she has done most of her "hints". She puts it in plain sight, but since you do not know what to look for, you do not see it. You gloss right over it. But upon re-reading....AHA! THERE IT IS!!!!!

That is her clever style of writing, isn't it? The one that really surprised me was Mrs. Figg - here was this batty cat lady briefly mentioned in Book 1, who turns out to be a squib monitoring Harry in Book 5! That was totally unexpected!! (for me, at least!)

[MsMin]

I think that it's the "red herring" So much of her foreshadowing is in the earlier books and this info is all in that book (R.A.B. and the locket in the house on Grimwald). Look at her pattern w/ Mrs. Figg mentioned so early and remember that Hagrid did borrow the flying motorcycle from Sirius when he delivered Harry to the Dursley's.
The flaw w/ the idea that R.A.B. was at Godric's Hollow on the night of the Potter's murder is that his death is listed as 1980 and they were killed in Oct. 1981 so according to Lexicon and others who list his approximate date of death as 1980 and others @ 1979 it suggests he died before the murders and therefore could not have been at the scene.
I think it could have been the Longbottoms. Remember that they were tortured after Voldey's disappearance b/c the death eaters suspected they knew where Voldemort was; therefore they could have been there.

[conorsmom2000]

The flaw w/ the idea that R.A.B. was at Godric's Hollow on the night of the Potter's murder is that his death is listed as 1980 and they were killed in Oct. 1981 so according to Lexicon and others who list his approximate date of death as 1980 and others @ 1979 it suggests he died before the murders and therefore could not have been at the scene.
I think it could have been the Longbottoms. Remember that they were tortured after Voldey's disappearance b/c the death eaters suspected they knew where Voldemort was; therefore they could have been there.

Sorry! I think we are all jumping around with our ideas and it's getting confused - we are talking about R.A.B. regarding the horacrux/locket - that he is the one who stole the real locket - not that he was at Godric's Hollow that night. I agree that it definitely could have been Frank Longbottom there that night.

[pshokie]

Uggghhh....I pick you too. Hurry up and tell us!!!!!!! I'm anxious here.

I have to admit that although I thought I was pretty HP savvy, after reading some of the other great conjectures I obviously have not done as much re-reading and research as I thought
I am VERY curious to know what the "controversial" horcrux could be?
Could the thinking be that Harry is somehow linked to it and therefore has to die in order for Voldemort to die???

I feel very awkward about posting so much of what I think.
1) Because it gets to become a bit "bossy", and I want this to a friendly discussion, and I want you to like me (hey we all need friends).
- and -
2) I do not want to ruin the last book. I am not privy to an inside information. No one is. All I am is a junkie. I have been reading all of the theories, opinions and editorials I can since before OOTP came out. Having sifted through a lot of drivel, I have just collected (or stolen) ideas that I feel "fit the puzzle". But in doing that , I feel some in fact do "solve the puzzle". So I am sorry if this sounds coy, but I don't want to just blurt something out and ruin it for everyone. So for now "controversial" will just stay that way. But I promise, before next Friday (maybe sooner) I willpost it, just so I can be mocked when I am wrong!

So back to the hunt.....

I'm going to jump in and answer this one! (though, I think you know the answer already!!) I'm under the assumption, as are many, I believe, that the locket is the one referred to in OoTP when they are decontaminating the house - "also a heavy locket that none of them could open" (OoTP pg 116). But, you know for sure that Sirius threw away the medal that was mentioned right after the locket - so what did happen to the locket? If it went back into the cabinet, it's Harry's now, at what is now his house. But, was it thrown out? Did Kreacher make off with it (who may possibly know what it represents, if he was with RAB?) Or is JKR just throwing out a red herring for us?

Gold star for conorsmom2000! As far as I am concerned, you are as much of a potter-geek as I am.

But to add to the confusion about where it is...It could be out with the trash. It could still be at #12 Grimauld Place. Kreacher could have nicked it and placed it in his "stash". Mundungus could have nicked it. Remember Alberforth Dumbledore (the Hogs Had Bar Man & Albus' brother) was confronting Mundungus when Harry saw Mundungus drop a bag of nicked goodies from Grimauld place. So either Mundungus could have it, or Alberforth can...... yikes!

So to recap my standing:
Dumbledore - Dead.
RAB - Regulas A Black
Slytherin's Locket - was at #12 Grimauld Place
Frank Longbottom was at Godric's Hollow

I think that is all I have posted.
More to come....more to come.....

EDIT: I almost forgot I mentioned that whole prophecy thing....can't let me forget that. Remember, the key word is vanquish!

[MsMin]

So to recap my standing:
Dumbledore - Dead.
RAB - Regulas A Black
Slytherin's Locket at #12 Grimauld Place
Frank Longbottom was at Godric's Hollow

I will agree with that but my question is there is so much more. What about the other Horcrux, other characters? She usually twists things and throws in extra stuff so there is more to uncover or think about.
What went on when Hagrid borrowed the motorcycle when he delivered Harry? Do you think Sirius was there too? Remember he might not have thought that Sirius betrayed them - yet.
Percy bothers me too. I don't want to say too much b/c I went to see the movie last night and something just jumped out and made me think.... Why is JKR making a big deal of Percy's alienation from the family and his drive to get ahead? I haven't seen JKR use anything that hasn't come back, right down to simple spells or ppl who just seem to pop back up from the bezoar in book 1 and 6 to the Opal necklace and the cabinet in book 2, 5 and 6, the list is endless but they are all coming back w/ a role.
Do you think that Godric's Hollow was a wizard community? and there were several there? maybe several from the order?