More Monrails

[pshokie]

I would just wish they would do something that is more family/disabled friendly. The anyone who has ever had to travel the busses with either an ECV, a wheelchair, or stroller with small child(ren) knows how the buses "feel". It is like you are ostricized the moment you step foot on the bus. (grumbles, eye rolling , delays, etc.)

To me, that is the biggest plus of the monorail, the fact that you can roll on/roll off.

Whatever they decide to do maglev, lightrail, etc., I hope that feature is included.

As for where it should go, I will buck the trend and say that any major Monorail type system should initially go to only one place, MGM. AK just does not have the "all day pull" to warant it in my opinion. No resturants, nighttime hours or shows, etc. It is a "day park" not a "destination". And it is very remote (by Disney standards). As for DTD, as mentioned before DTD is free to non-resort folks. So nix that one.

I'll go hide now.....

[BrerSchultzy]

As for where it should go, I will buck the trend and say that any major Monorail type system should initially go to only one place, MGM. AK just does not have the "all day pull" to warant it in my opinion. No resturants, nighttime hours or shows, etc. It is a "day park" not a "destination". And it is very remote (by Disney standards). As for DTD, as mentioned before DTD is free to non-resort folks. So nix that one.

I'll go hide now.....

Good points. I disagree a little bit...but good points. To me and my family, AK is far more of an all day park than DMGM. BUT, I agree that DMGM is where this new superconducted doohickey of the future should connect. I think AK is such a different type of park, that it needs that sense of anticipation that the buses provide. Now......maybe they could make the buses look more like safari vehicles...hmmm.

[CrazyStitch]

The way I envisioned a new mass-transit system for WDW would (as previously mentioned) use Omnimover technology. Walt's early concept model for E.P.C.O.T. had this type of transit connecting the out-lying living areas with the central "downtown" area.

Basically, I'd build a central control hub, which would house the computer control systems for the omnimover network. From there, a network of interconnected tracks would link up the various locations within WDW, with bypass sections that go around the pickup stations at the various destinations so that those not stopping at that location can go around without slowing down. Throughout the network, there would be "switching gates" so that the vehicles could switch from one track to another to arrive at the destination in the shortest amount of time.

Guests would board the vehicles at these stations on a rotating platform like those used on the TTA or Spaceship Earth. Once inside the transport vehicle (which is fully enclosed, with large windows to provide a near panoramic view), the guests would select there destination on a user-friendly touch screen LCD. The vehicle itself would be large enough to hold 6 guests, plus room for wheelchair/stroller access. The seats could rotate, so that guests could either turn to talk to each other, or watch the landscape go by as the vehicle's computer navigates the track network to take them to their destination.

The central control hub would be able to monitor the status of the network, position of all the vehicles, and various other criteria. Those in the control hub would be able to reroute vehicles to less congested sections of the network, or add/remove vehicles to/from the network as guest usage changes. The vehicles themselves would communicate with each other to prevent collisions, or to slow one vehicle down so that another may switch paths.

The system could completely replace the current bus system, providing a constantly moving, congestion free transportation alternative. The entire system could be run on electricty, or have small natural gas powered engines on each vehicle.


Yeah, I've had a long time to think about this

[bleukarma]

I read Michael Eisner’s book “Work in Progress” where he goes into detail about the Disney hotel boom and how he decided to bring in Michael Graves and the design process, etc. and he didn’t mention anything about expanding the monorail over to the Swan and Dolphin. That doesn’t mean the idea wasn’t out there, though, and he just didn’t mention it in the book.

I wonder…if cities like Chicago, NY, Washington D.C. and San Francisco can have a train or a subway then why can’t WDW if they want? WDW is basically it’s own city it’s just that the residents only stay for a week or so at a time (aside from Celebration). I think the cities mentioned above can do it because people pay to get on it. I think if Disney decided to sell tickets to ride then it would cover some of the costs of expanding the monorail. I think most people would pay it since the monorail would cut down precious travel time, and there is always the novelty of riding the monorail. Although I, for one, would hate to see the last free thing at WDW go away and I would rather just jump on a bus.

But, cost and other factors go into it. I know for years (since at least 1999) they were talking about putting a bullet train from Tampa to Orlando and I believe it passed in the local government but it’s been held up with red tape. I’m not exactly sure why it hasn’t been built yet (I think I'll go research that...) but I heard environmental factors were part of it. I’ve been looking forward to it ever since, as I wouldn’t have to relocate to Orlando to work at Disney, I can just jump on the train!

[Zippy_D_DooDah]

What about a monorail to DTD with limited access. Meaning that only resort guests with Keys To The Kingdom cards could access the Hubs/Stations at both the TTA and DTD. Would this system run into discrimination problems? People who want to park for free and access the parks can already do that now. All you have to do is hop a Contemporay bus and you are in.

[EmiB]

I know the original manager of the restaurants at the Dolphin hotel (Carnivale, Tubby's, Coral Cafe...all gone now sadly) and I remember him mentioning the monorail myth.

Whether it was true or not, it would have been nice.

Now that I think about it, before the Boardwalk was built, they had a tram (like the ones used in the parks' parking lots) that went from S&D to the International Gateway EPCOT entrance.
If you look, there is a large oval grassy area and canopy still there that was the "tram station".

[joelkfla]

The way I envisioned a new mass-transit system for WDW would (as previously mentioned) use Omnimover technology. Walt's early concept model for E.P.C.O.T. had this type of transit connecting the out-lying living areas with the central "downtown" area.

...

Guests would board the vehicles at these stations on a rotating platform like those used on the TTA or Spaceship Earth. Once inside the transport vehicle (which is fully enclosed, with large windows to provide a near panoramic view), the guests would select there destination on a user-friendly touch screen LCD.

What you are describing is called PRT, for Personal Rapid Transit. The only difference is that PRT models do not use turntables for boarding; they typically have one or more individual gates with a supply of vehicles stacked up waiting for passengers. It's more like the loading for Test Track than SE.

Several PRT systems have been prototyped with demonstration tracks and vehicles, and there have been several serious proposals for a public system, but none has made it to the construction phase. The latest was a plan to open a system at Heathrow Airport in 2008, but it would be a shuttle operation with no destination switching. I don't know what the current status of that project is.

The big question for any unproven system at Disney is whether it could handle the tremendous surges in demand at park opening and closing, and after parades. I think a PRT system would have a hard time matching the boarding rate of the bus system, let alone the Monorails.

[TheRustyScupper]

. . .
I don't think Disney is a huge fan of their bus system, really. It's reasonably expensive to run, it pollutes a lot (for which they catch a lot of heat since they're supposed to be so into "environmentality"), and I don't think most guests feel like they're very magical. I know I don't . . .

1) Yep, regarding the pollution.
2) Disney is environmentally-friendly only when it suits them.
3) I was part of a team recommending biodiesel
. . . made from soy beans, so it is renewable
. . . biodiesel returns 3.2 units of energy for 1.0 to make it
. . . burns cleaner than petroleum diesel fuel
. . . emits 78% less CO2 than diesel fuel
. . . significantly decreases maintenance costs
. . . all manufacturers now warrant engines for biodiesel

NOTE: Disneyland is using some biodiesel, but that is because California is mandating a reduction in C02 emissions. They steadfastly refused to use biodiesel when approached by national biodiesel groups.

[Mentok]

Hybrid busses are already being produced in by several manufacturers including the large articulated types. And of course they can also run on bio fuel or natural gas. Many Bus Rapid Transit systems use raised platforms at the stops so that you enter at the same level as the bus floor, easing entry and exit. All that said, I still think of a bus as the lowest form of public transit. I can take a bus in any city on earth, at WDW I want something special.

Two things Disney could do to ease out the cost of an expanded monorail system is
1) Use automated trains. The Las Vegas Monorail ( which is an updated version of the WDW Mark VI ) is fully automated, which in turn saves on your labor costs. Although to be fair I realize Disney only pays monorail pilots something like $7 an hour.

2) Connect to as many resorts as possible. The more hotel rooms you connect to the system, the more you can spread out the cost. I could see a route from Port Orleans, through an Epcot transfer station, to the Boardwalk/ Yacht and Beach Club area, to MGM, west to Coronado Springs , south to Blizzard Beach, west to AK , and finally to AK lodge. Also the next resort could be built either on this new line or between Epcot and TTC.

[John]

Cost per mile for existing monorail systems can be found here:

http://monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

[Ian]

I think the stability of the land around WDW adds significantly to the development costs there. They'd probably be on the high end of that ... around $100 million a mile or so.

They'd probably be looking at a cap/ex of at least $2 billion to put something worthwhile into service. Of course, they could spread that out over time ... do bits and pieces ...

[A Big Kid]

Looks like the dark spots on the S&D hotels are some 10 stories in the air. That seems a little high for the monorail to go up to.

I found this on a web site:

"The "black box" area on the Walt Disney Dolphin that many Disney fans mistakenly believe was meant to be an entrance for the monorail similar to the Contemporary resort is actually the heart of a mountain. The Walt Disney Dolphin is a mountain that has struggled to thrust its way out of the tropical rain forest. That is the reason for the banana leaves painted along the side of the building.

The struggle caused the heart to explode, and the water cascades nine stories down the side of the hotel, passing through five clamshell basins to a fountain and eventually splashing into Crescent Lake. Notice that the walkway from the Walt Disney Dolphin to the Walt Disney Swan has railings and landscaping that mimic waves. The water splashes up onto the Walt Disney Swan and that accounts for the waves painted on the side of that hotel."

[LudwigVonDrake]

If Disney were to develop anything to replace the buses, it would have to be cost effective and be able to transport more people than they do already

[Victor Kelly]

Automated monorails: Miami and Orlando International Airport. Theme the trains for each destination available.

Construct a new TTC hub at Epcot. Destinations: DTD, MK, AK, MGM. Use busses for close in tansport between their respective theme park and resorts. Epcot and MK are already connected. So no cost there really.

And since all trains are automated, no drivers or attendants needed on platforms. And make the cabs panoramic and maybe spruce up the landscape with topiaries like they used to have.

[iceicebritney]

i too heard about the monorail plans for swan and dolphin back when they first opened. it would've been a great idea!

i think the best plan is for the monorail to go from the TTC to MGM and then DTD. Then it can connect to those hotels like Beach Club / Yacht Club / Boardwalk which are "deluxe" resorts, but dont have the same benefits as other deluxes w/ the monorail.

i've been talking to monorail operaters (and become friends with many of them - Shout Out To: JOHN IOREO!!) for years about plans to extend the monorail - its a great invention, and honestly - i go to school at penn state, and we always joke about how awesome it would be to have a monorail transport us around campus!!

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . i go to school at penn state, and we always joke about how awesome it would be to have a monorail transport us around campus!! . . .

But, I thought Happy Valley was already happy enough.

[gsimpson]

There is another problem with the black square being for "insert monorail here". The monorail trains (both current and previous models) are longer than the building is wide. Unless they loaded/unloaded guests in specific cars they would have to stop, unload/load, move forward the the next 2 cars, stop, unload/load. If they originally planned monorail service to those hotels they probably would have put one station between them, which would make a lot more sense anyway.

I wish they would expand the monorail to include DTD (and I have no problem with using a guest key/pass to access it) and AK. Bus service seems bery spotty, and that IS NOT a complaint about the drivers in any way shape or form, they are doing the best they can with what they have got to work with. Light rail has a big problem, it is at grade so it has to compete with and cross roads and traffic ways. Subways and elevated guidways work best not because they are technically superior (although I think they are) but because there is no waiting for cross traffic and quite literally nothing to get into an accident with. No matter how jammed the roadways are, no matter how badly the guests are driving, the monorail will not colide with any of them. Fewer delays, fewer injuries, and I believe no deaths.

[Victor Kelly]

Actually, we have elevated sections of lightrail here in Baltimore. Subways are out of the question for Disney in Florida due to shallow ground water levels.

[GoinGoofyPlanninThisTrip]

I like the PRT idea too. I always thought it would be cool to have family sized pods take you where you wanted to go ala the rail system in The Incredibles.

[Monorail_Red]

It is 100% true that the monorail was intended to pass through the Swan & Dolphin hotels. I think that there was going to be a station put in between the two buildings.

When EPCOT was built, there were foundations put in for the pylons (pillars) to expand the monorail through the Swan & Dolphin and to where MGM I think when it was built. I'm not sure when the foundations were put into MGM, but I'm positive they are there.

If it were to be expanded, EPCOT would become the central hub, rather than the TTC. the TTC would be the hub still for the current system. It would probabally be two separate systems with tow separate staffs and a separate shop, etc. The current shop is landlocked and expansion of it is out of the question. Monorails could not be switched between systems. There would be two monorail reds, yellows, etc for each system. Probabally two different types of trains too, maybe Mark VIII for the new system.