Adventurer's Club Rumors?

[TheRustyScupper]

Sooooooo....essentially, you are just making up numbers? I mean, over 8000 petitioned to have the club saved. That 8,000 a year, at $22 a pop, plus however many drinks, lets say 2 @ 9.00 (a Kungaloosh was $9 and change so $20 for drinks and tips)..... = $3,520,000 a year.

1) Most of the time I agree with you.
2) But, this time there are gaps in thinking.
3) You have forgot to deduct
. . . manpower hourly rates
. . . manpower fringes (about 160% of pay)
. . . building/land depreciation
. . . building maintenance-repairs-replacements
. . . lights
. . . heat and air conditioning
. . . water and sewer
. . . natural gas
. . . mortgage principle-interest-taxes
. . . insurance
. . . food and booze wholesale costs
. . . overhead, management
. . . overhead, general
. . . etc
. . . etc
4) After all this, the profit now is quite small.
5) The profit-per-square-foot was never realized at PI.
6) Eateries and shops bring in more per sq.

NOTE: PI was a good ideal that was poorly developed and poorly managed. They tried to get to good on City Walk and failed miserably - just like trying to beat Universal with MGM Studios.

[The Joker]

If World of Disney is making huge profits, what's the one thing you shouldn't do? Building another WoD perhaps? If the 3rd party restaurants on West Side underperform, what's the one thing you shouldn't do? Adding more 3rd party restaurants. And to top it all, they're adding low capacity copies of Disneyland Paris attractions, like a balloon ride...

[lockedoutlogic]

If World of Disney is making huge profits, what's the one thing you shouldn't do? Building another WoD perhaps? If the 3rd party restaurants on West Side underperform, what's the one thing you shouldn't do? Adding more 3rd party restaurants. And to top it all, they're adding low capacity copies of Disneyland Paris attractions, like a balloon ride...

there's absolutely no indication that the restaurants on the West Side underperform whatsoever....

In fact...they're are much more crowded on a slow day than the adventrure's club ever was on it's busiest night....

Even planet hollywood does good business....and it is so bad that EVERY other location on earth has closed.....

Virgin Megastore....Cirque....Disneyquest underperfom....

but you don't find alot of empty chairs at those restaurants....

Remember this as well.....the new restaurants are geared just as much towards the local population as they are towards WDW travelers.....because the locals will go to downtown.....but they stay away from the more interior properties during large chunks of the year....the "busy" seasons (pretty much every month but may and september at this point)

[The Joker]

there's absolutely no indication that the restaurants on the West Side underperform whatsoever....

I know from personal experience and observation, that PH, Bongos and Wolfgang Puck were much more crowded a couple of years ago. I had to use my PH VIP pass almost every time to get the first available table instead of waiting 45-60 minutes. Lines at WP were 3-4 times bigger. It is very well possible that these restaurants outperform any bar at PI, but by removing the bars and adding more (3rd party) restaurants and shops you'll only lose what made WDW special; what's left is what you can find in any major city.

[lockedoutlogic]

I know from personal experience and observation, that PH, Bongos and Wolfgang Puck were much more crowded a couple of years ago. I had to use my PH VIP pass almost every time to get the first available table instead of waiting 45-60 minutes. Lines at WP were 3-4 times bigger. It is very well possible that these restaurants outperform any bar at PI, but by removing the bars and adding more (3rd party) restaurants and shops you'll only lose what made WDW special; what's left is what you can find in any major city.

I'm with you on this one....

But it's still not too much of a guess to say that the restaurants....even with diminished crowds.....outperform any of the PI Clubs 99% of the time......and i'm only giving them 99% to give the appearance that there is somekind of benefit of the doubt

The driving motivations for WDW are pretty simple:

1. Revenue
2. Lack of operational costs (and it's a pretty distant second place.....enough revenue would override this guy in a heartbeat......obviously PI didn't fall into this category)

[johnO]

but by removing the bars and adding more (3rd party) restaurants and shops you'll only lose what made WDW special; what's left is what you can find in any major city.

And that's exactly what matters. Joker's right on here. If WDW eliminates its own uniqueness, they eliminate what draws the crowds. It's the fact that WDW offers so much that is unique, like AC, or any of it's brand hotels, that drives people to pay the higher prices to vacation on property at WDW.

If WDW continues with this move towards outsourcing they're diminishing the uniqueness and the 'magic' in favor of the bottom line, I think the customers will act in kind and stop paying premium prices for something that is becoming more and more like the competition.......

[lockedoutlogic]

And that's exactly what matters. Joker's right on here. If WDW eliminates its own uniqueness, they eliminate what draws the crowds. It's the fact that WDW offers so much that is unique, like AC, or any of it's brand hotels, that drives people to pay the higher prices to vacation on property at WDW.

If WDW continues with this move towards outsourcing they're diminishing the uniqueness and the 'magic' in favor of the bottom line, I think the customers will act in kind and stop paying premium prices for something that is becoming more and more like the competition.......

WDW crowds will not suffer by any measurable statistic after eliminating PI.....

Sure WDW is "unique"...but PI is not what gets people there....it was always window dressing....like disneyquest or rivercountry

[johnO]

WDW crowds will not suffer by any measurable statistic after eliminating PI.....

Sure WDW is "unique"...but PI is not what gets people there....it was always window dressing....like disneyquest or rivercountry

Agreed, but they're removing PI in favor of NON-Disney brand is the point. The outsourcing is the problem that will cause the crowds to suffer.......

[Polynesian Dweller]

Agreed, but they're removing PI in favor of NON-Disney brand is the point. The outsourcing is the problem that will cause the crowds to suffer.......

Ok, I don't follow. Why would the crowds suffer? Cirque du Soleil (La Nouba), Rain Forest Cafe, Fulton's, T-Rex, Raglan Road, Portabello, House of Blues, Wolfgang Puck's, Earl of Sandwich, Basin, and others are all Non-Disney brand and seem to do well. So, what would be different about additional non-Disney shops and restaurants?

[johnO]

Ok, I don't follow. Why would the crowds suffer? Cirque du Soleil (La Nouba), Rain Forest Cafe, Fulton's, T-Rex, Raglan Road, Portabello, House of Blues, Wolfgang Puck's, Earl of Sandwich, Basin, and others are all Non-Disney brand and seem to do well. So, what would be different about additional non-Disney shops and restaurants?

Why not get rid of all Disney shops??????? You don't see this as a problem? Get rid of Disney and you're no longer visiting DISNEY World....

The problem is; "what's next?" How much of WDW will disappear in favor of a 3rd party in the future? Where does it end? Will the powers that be outsource all hotel operations at some point in order to save dollars? The parks?

Should it be considered abnormal for a WDW fan to be disturbed by outsourcing to NON-Disney entities? I like Walt Disney because it's "Disney", a brand I've come to know, respect and trust. A brand that is the standard of the best quality.

Don't you think there is some point that WDW goers in general will begin to notice? Obviously people here, have.

Does anyone go to WDW for the 3rd party businesses that have moved in?????

[Polynesian Dweller]

Why not get rid of all Disney shops??????? You don't see this as a problem? Get rid of Disney and you're no longer visiting DISNEY World....

The problem is; "what's next?" How much of WDW will disappear in favor of a 3rd party in the future? Where does it end? Will the powers that be outsource all hotel operations at some point in order to save dollars? The parks?

Should it be considered abnormal for a WDW fan to be disturbed by outsourcing to NON-Disney entities? I like Walt Disney because it's "Disney", a brand I've come to know, respect and trust. A brand that is the standard of the best quality.

Don't you think there is some point that WDW goers in general will begin to notice? Obviously people here, have.

Does anyone go to WDW for the 3rd party businesses that have moved in?????

My comment wasn't about any of this or there being potential problems. It was about why this would impact on the crowds at Downtown Disney. It hasn't so far so why would more cause crowds to go down at Downtown Disney?

Disney will not outsource theme parks or its core business so I'm not at all worried about the watering down of that which is really why people go. But Downtown Disney is really just a large mall. As long as there is the Disney Store and other Disney shopping outlets I don't see at all what the problem is of other stores being there. You don't go all the way to WDW just for DTD.

[Ian]

I can see both sides of the argument here, but I think when it comes to PI it's not as big a deal.

I don't really think PI (since they eliminated the admission fee) has been about the guests. It's about cast and locals. I've been to PI ... trust me ... 80% of the people there were clearly not vacationers. In fact, a large percentage of them appeared to be ex-convicts (some possibly escaped convicts! .

I know a lot of people loved AC ... I did, too, but I almost never went. I mean really ... I have two kids and I'm certain a large percentage of WDW visitors have kids, too. You can't take them to PI, so you're sort of by default not visiting. Not to mention the fact that you're already getting up at the crack of dawn and traipsing around the parks all day long. I'm beat by the end of the day! I can't go out partying!

I just think PI was an idea that had run its course. And really, Disney can't find enough qualified CM's as it is. It can only help them if they reduce the number of positions they have to fill.

[big blue and hairy]

I know a lot of people loved AC ... I did, too, but I almost never went. I mean really ... I have two kids and I'm certain a large percentage of WDW visitors have kids, too.

There's you're biggest problem. I don't have kids, I thought AC was cool and I hardly ever went. Why? There are so many things to do. It is completely plausible the PI is a victim of the other successes at WDW. Think about it, how many more choices do you have on property than you did when PI first opened? Even on a long trip you run out of time to do everything. Somewhere along the line actually sleeping becomes an issue.

[LarryBoy]

I know a lot of people loved AC ... I did, too, but I almost never went. I mean really ... I have two kids and I'm certain a large percentage of WDW visitors have kids, too. You can't take them to PI, so you're sort of by default not visiting. Not to mention the fact that you're already getting up at the crack of dawn and traipsing around the parks all day long. I'm beat by the end of the day! I can't go out partying!

I too loved the AC and CW but we rarely made it over to PI especially after we had our DS. Clubs are not kid friendly, and so many of us go to WDW with our families. That's why I would love to see an AC restaurant that the whole family could enjoy.

[CaptainJessicaSparrow]

I too loved the AC and CW but we rarely made it over to PI especially after we had our DS. Clubs are not kid friendly, and so many of us go to WDW with our families. That's why I would love to see an AC restaurant that the whole family could enjoy.

See but everyone says that and you always could have brought your children to the club. It wasn't the type of club that allowed the sort of trouble that BET or Mannequins or the other clubs there did. The performers had to keep the show PG-13 because it was family, even if most of the time parents did not bring their children. But as long as the child had an adult with them, they could enter CW and AC. So It could open exactly the same and you could go. As a solo person, with no one to dine with, I wouldn't want a restaurant because I'd never see the show (I wouldn't eat alone).

[johnO]

I just think some are missing the point...DTD is an alternative to the parks, another option. With PI gone what exactly is "Dinsey" about Downtown Disney????? The marketplace? Quest? This isn't a ride or show that Disney decided to 'relieve' themselves of. This is a large area and businesses. So DTD is not really Disney at all anymore because 3rd party retailers are taking over all of it, more 3rd party hotels and shops going in on the western edge of WDW property in addition to the Four Seasons, another NON-Disney operator on WDW property. I don't know about all of you but in my book that constitutes a pattern or trend that I don't particularly like. As I said, I like WDW because of Disney quality, not 3rd party folks. I don't go to WDW to visit shop in store that I can find here at home. The Disney 'Magic' is what keeps us coming back. But if the future is more non Disney take overs then that mean less Disney 'magic'.......

[crazyred11588]

See but everyone says that and you always could have brought your children to the club. It wasn't the type of club that allowed the sort of trouble that BET or Mannequins or the other clubs there did. The performers had to keep the show PG-13 because it was family, even if most of the time parents did not bring their children. But as long as the child had an adult with them, they could enter CW and AC. So It could open exactly the same and you could go. As a solo person, with no one to dine with, I wouldn't want a restaurant because I'd never see the show (I wouldn't eat alone).

I'm kind of the same way...I don't like going ANYWHERE by myself, let alone eat alone. I wish they would bring the club back because even when you're "alone" you have people to talk to and socialize with, whereas you don't really get that at a restaurant.

CaptainJessica: Next time I'm in Disney, if they bring AC back by then, we will totally go and not be alone together lol

[lockedoutlogic]

See but everyone says that and you always could have brought your children to the club. It wasn't the type of club that allowed the sort of trouble that BET or Mannequins or the other clubs there did. The performers had to keep the show PG-13 because it was family, even if most of the time parents did not bring their children. But as long as the child had an adult with them, they could enter CW and AC. So It could open exactly the same and you could go. As a solo person, with no one to dine with, I wouldn't want a restaurant because I'd never see the show (I wouldn't eat alone).

Those places were never meant for families....no matter what Disney said....

They were bars.....plain and simple....the only place that wasn't a straight bar was the Comedy Warehouse....and that would have been brutally dull for anyone between 5 and 15.....

The Adventure's Club was a bar with schtick that would be lost on anyone resembling a child as well....

PI was what it was: for adults.....it had it's run....now it's going away.....

I still fail to see the issue here....it's over

[Cinderelley]

I wonder how long one year of Iger's salary would have kept the Adventurer's Club going.

[drummerboy]

I think the original point of this thread was the loss of AC and the hope that something similar would be opened elsewhere on property. The arguments over why PI closed are interesting but somewhat behind the point.

A larger capacity restaurant/bar with an AC-like theme, maybe in or near the studios, might be interesting and get more family traffic.