Reasons NOT to join DVC

[CaptainSad]

The DW and I looked into DVC about five years ago. We took the sales pitch and came away with one big problem. At the end of the contract you own nothing. If you don't go to WDW yearly you are wasting your money. Now I have a time share I got into 3 years ago. It is Wyndham Resorts. Guess what? If you go by The Caribbean resort you will see a new complex being built. Wyndham Bonnett Creek. It has four of the seven towers built and occupied right now. It is the first outside TS resort allowed on Disney property. The good thing with Wyndham is if you buy the points, you own a piece of the property. I am part owner of Bonnett Creek, Nashville & Atlantic City. It is a point system which is a million times better then owning a week at some resort that is sold out. I can get into any of the Wyndham resorts with a quick phone call. Being a Platinum member I can get in any, 30 day's in advance. I really do think DVC is not a good investment for your money.

[Minnesota Dis]

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to point out a few things. While I do have to agree with many of the reasons here not to buy I think bjlaac is forgetting that most people do not put their vacation money into a CD each year and gain interest on this money. To compare it this way you must also take the money you would have spent on vacation and add up your lost income. If you never go, then of course you could have invested that money but you may come out the same in the end as owning.

I own points at BWV and can also rent those points each year for $10/$12 point if I decide not to use them. My maintanance fees are approx. $4.50 a point so I would make a 5-7% profit or more if I really wanted to pursue the rental market.

I purchased our contract for $19,710 (270 points). I if had invested that money at 5% instead of buying I would have made approx. $970 a year. However, if I rent the points at $11 X 270, I would have $2,970. $2,970 minus $1200 main. fees, minus 970 lost 5% interest, equals $800 in profit plus I did not lose the $970 in interest.

Because of selling excess points I have never paid maintainence fees and have gone every year for the past 5 staying in studios, 1 bdrms and 2 bdrms. depending on our needs.

We are now actually looking at selling our larger contract due to less frequent trips to WDW and in the end I will have paid very little for those five years of vacations (possibly made a profit). We will keep the small 60 pt. contract and just bank, borrow and transfer.

Granted, values will change if you borrow the money, make better investments, etc. but I think mostly it's a wash. I can sell my contract but you can't sell the vacation you already took.

I will always be on the fence as far as numbers and can look at it from both sides. It can be a good value but it all depends on the economy, your vacation habits, cost per point, etc. Vacation is only a good value for the soul, not so great for the pocketbook.

[thrillme]

Reading these posts I have a little bit of conflict that I do not understand.

Can you pass your DVC ownership down like a normal timeshare or is it absorbed when the original owners pass on. Earlier posts mentioned passing it onto their 6 year old when he marries...others have indicated that it cannot be willed...I'm just curious.

Personally the DVC isn't for me simply because I prefer to stay at the Value resorts/Pop. I like to stay on property solely for the "late nights", free parking or the frequent shuttles...other than that...the resort is just a place for me to sleep for a bit. The ONLY time I ever pay big bucks for a room is when I go to Universal.

[dlpmikki]

Reading these posts I have a little bit of conflict that I do not understand.

Can you pass your DVC ownership down like a normal timeshare or is it absorbed when the original owners pass on. Earlier posts mentioned passing it onto their 6 year old when he marries...others have indicated that it cannot be willed...I'm just curious.

Personally the DVC isn't for me simply because I prefer to stay at the Value resorts/Pop. I like to stay on property solely for the "late nights", free parking or the frequent shuttles...other than that...the resort is just a place for me to sleep for a bit. The ONLY time I ever pay big bucks for a room is when I go to Universal.

It can be willed but it is only for a finite length of time eg until 2042, 2057 etc. Other timeshares can be for ever in theory.

[Sunshine1010]

I am the one who stated that I was going to pass the DVC ownership onto my 6 year old son.

.........YES, you CAN 'pass it on'. I've done that. It was one of my deciding factors to purchase the DVC. I purchased it basically when I turned 40. I doubt I'll be going to disney in 2054. My investments will pay for the fees after I 'give this to him', and if I am still alive, then I will more than likely pay 1/2 or all of the fees associated with this until I do pass away.

.........YES, I knew that the timeshare wasn't forever and ever and ever and ever. It is good until 2054. I have never looked at it as an investments. My investments make me money ---- this only SAVES me money for future vacations.

To me, saving money for almost 50 years is a smart decision because we KNEW we'd be going to Disney every year. And, if my son doesn't want to go to Disney every year, then he'll have the option of exchanging it, or saving the points for the next year, or giving it to someone.

Owning a DVC is a personal decision. People will justify 'for and against'. Each way has good points. You just have to do what is right for you.

I've heard someone say last year that if you truly don't want to buy ----- you'll somehow crunch the numbers in the favor of not buying. And...if you DO want to buy, you'll crunch the numbers to make it justifiable. he he

Make sense?

It was a good decision for us. My Personal Financial Investor made me MAKE SURE I realized it wasn't something to 'make' money, and he was wanting to keep the money and have it grow for us.....but this is like a BIG
'coupon' for us. We'll be going to Disney for years......so it makes sense to us.

Good luck!!!

[bjlaac]

[QUOTE=Minnesota Dis;1408761]Sorry this is so long but I wanted to point out a few things. While I do have to agree with many of the reasons here not to buy I think bjlaac is forgetting that most people do not put their vacation money into a CD each year and gain interest on this money. To compare it this way you must also take the money you would have spent on vacation and add up your lost income. ........QUOTE]

We can work numbers anyway you like but i did not suggest people would be saving their vacation money in a CD. In order to buy into DVC, my example assumed you would take the $12,500 out of an existing funds that should already be invested, and therefore, you would in fact be loosing interest from day one. To finance the DVC, the $12,500 would become almost $20,000 in 10 years at 10% (the current Timeshare rates). The calculations would be worse.

My example always assumed there would be comparable vacations paid out of pocket for the non DVC member. Under the best scenario, the DVC is paying a premium for their resort over non DVC members. Believe me, I find nothing wrong with that. If that is what you choose to do, great!

My point is that the vacation costs are comparable, and if the numbers were reversed, where the non DVC person was paying the premium, my position would be the same.

a) I'm not saving significant money
b) There's no daily maid service
c) It's not a deluxe resort for me
d) I'm locked into the same vacation for 50 years.

Like I said in the original post, that is why I did not join.

[lockedoutlogic]

[QUOTE=CaptainSad;1404772] The good thing with Wyndham is if you buy the points, you own a piece of the property. I am part owner of Bonnett Creek, Nashville & Atlantic City. It is a point system which is a million times better then owning a week at some resort that is sold out. [QUOTE]

I know some people who have bought into Wyndham...as well as Marriot and Starwood....and they all seem to like it well enough. So i'm not doubting your satisfaction in your choice.

But based on the excerpts from your post listed above...I have to ask: What sales pitch did you sit through about Disney?

You do own a percentage of the property....you don't have a specific week...and Disney was the second system to use points...trailing only Marriott...I believe....

The only thing you have there that is true is that your contract expires....which could be an issue to many....but make no mistake....no 15K timeshare bought now is going to be worth some gaudy number to be willed 60 years from now...It's just not the nature of the beast.

Frankly, alot of your shortcomings that you list to Disney don't actually exist...most notably the point system and the lack of unit "ownership"....

As far as DVC being a good purchase for the money....all DVC points that have been purchased have increased in resale value....or at least 95% of them...if that trend holds....it would be one of the most solid investments you can make....use it for as long as you want...then sell it for more than you initially paid.

[dlpmikki]

MODERATOR ALERT

This is a repeated post because the last one was at the bottom of the previous page and I suspect some of the recent posters have not seen it. Please follow these guidelines!

Please remember this topic is meant to be for people to give their reasons why NOT to join DVC. It is not meant to be for a general discussion / disagreement of/with those reasons.

We have been getting into discussion mode lately which makes it much more difficult for people to easily read reasons not to join. There is a separate topic for reasons TO join.

Thank you!

[DVC Mike]

Please remember this topic is meant to be for people to give their reasons why NOT to join DVC. It is not meant to be for a general discussion / disagreement of/with those reasons.

We have been getting into discussion mode lately which makes it much more difficult for people to easily read reasons not to join. There is a separate topic for reasons TO join.

So one group can post their perceived pros, another group can post their perceived cons, but where do we get to discuss opinions and point out any misinformation that might be posted in either section?

It seems it would make sense to merge the two postings into a "Why DVC does or doesn't make sense for me".

[lockedoutlogic]

So one group can post their perceived pros, another group can post their perceived cons, but where do we get to discuss opinions and point out any misinformation that might be posted in either section?

It seems it would make sense to merge the two postings into a "Why DVC does or doesn't make sense for me".

I agree...I wouldn't have said anything if it hadn't been errors presented as fact.....If someone is seriously considering DVC and sees a post that says they are tied to a week and that other systems that use "a point system" are better...then isn't it a responsible thing to point out that those are not the facts?

I'm not disputing anyone else's opinions...they are free to them....just incorrect "facts"

[dlpmikki]

The problems in the past have been one persons fact has been another persons misinformation and vice versa and this has led to discussions / arguments with no conclusions. Not helpful and distracting from the meat of the topic.

Before we had these topics every time someone asked a question about whether to join DVC they were jumped on by people from both sides and there was a lot of repetition. This way is not perfect but it is a lot better than what we had before. We kept the topics seperate to avoid that ongoing discussion / argument between the two sides as it tended to get too heated.

If there is a genuine discussion point then there is no reason why it can't be raised in a new topic post on it's own.

[Minnesota Dis]

[
We can work numbers anyway you like but i did not suggest people would be saving their vacation money in a CD. In order to buy into DVC, my example assumed you would take the $12,500 out of an existing funds that should already be invested, and therefore, you would in fact be loosing interest from day one. To finance the DVC, the $12,500 would become almost $20,000 in 10 years at 10% (the current Timeshare rates). The calculations would be worse.

My example always assumed there would be comparable vacations paid out of pocket for the non DVC member. Under the best scenario, the DVC is paying a premium for their resort over non DVC members. Believe me, I find nothing wrong with that. If that is what you choose to do, great!

My point is that the vacation costs are comparable, and if the numbers were reversed, where the non DVC person was paying the premium, my position would be the same.

a) I'm not saving significant money
b) There's no daily maid service
c) It's not a deluxe resort for me
d) I'm locked into the same vacation for 50 years.

Like I said in the original post, that is why I did not join.[/QUOTE]


I hope you don't think I was arguing with you.. sorry I see both sides and actually have considered selling one of our contracts.

Also, moderators I hope I didn't break any rules by posting on this side. I just read a post that I thought I could give a comparison on from my personal experience and thought it might help someone along the line. I know I read until I was blue when we were looking to purchase!

I guess what I was saying is at this point we would actually make more money on DVC than we would have by putting our money in a CD five years ago. I think a realistic CD return is 6% and not 10%. I won't crunch the numbers because it has been done over and over. We purchased our contracts with banked points which we rented and have also rented out additional points totalling over $7,000. We have more than covered our dues and could sell our contracts for more than we purchased.

We took those vacations at a deluxe resort which I know does not have daily housekeeping, etc. However, a 2 bedroom with a balcony does beat a moderate every time for me and we can pay for daily housekeeping. Also, my teens are now in the adult category so I would pay even more for a moderate room.

But.... the point costs are higher now, dues are higher, etc.

Again, I think it is a wash as far as money if you do it right. I also think you can work the numbers for or against but thought I would give a comparison from my own personal experience. I think there are good reasons to buy and good reasons why not to buy.

If you are borrowing money, do not want to lock in, want daily maid service, etc. do not buy as it is not worth it. Also, I think it is very easy to be taken in by the thought of owning a piece of Disney (we were taken in)... really Disney owns your money. Also, anything can happen that would change this scenario dramatically in terms of our economy.

[bjlaac]

Minnesota, I think we are in agreement.

And no, I didn't take your post as an arguement and I hope you didn't take my reply as an arguement either.

I think it is a wash and it comes down to personal preference. There are a lot of reason to become a DVC member and you, as well as others, have made that point clear. In keeping with the topics desire for reasons, I was just pointing out "my" reasons not to join.

If you read between the lines, you can see we looked several times into the DVC, looking for a reason to join. We decided not to mainly because it locked us into the same vacation for many years. As we both point out, its probably a wash whether you join and go every year or rent points vs going to the resorts only in the years you choose to go.

It ultimately depends on what you desire for your vacations.

[Tinkitude]

It is crazy expensive. Only somebody who could actually afford the DVC type accommodations already would be able to afford the join. It is a shame there isn't something geared more towards every level of Disney vacationer.

[Ian]

It is crazy expensive. Only somebody who could actually afford the DVC type accommodations already would be able to afford the join. It is a shame there isn't something geared more towards every level of Disney vacationer.

I think it depends on what you define as "crazy expensive?"

I, personally, thought it was very affordable. If you spread the cost of our 160 points out over the 50 years or so we'll be able to use them it comes out to around $300 a year.

Factor in even $700 a year for maintenance fees (which is a good bit more than we pay now) and that sure seems like a bargain to me?

[kbean]

Sounds like a waste of $$$ and a headache.

[DVC Mike]

Sounds like a waste of $$$ and a headache.

Here is a link to one of the many financial comparisons available:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php?option=...=55&Itemid=148

[DizneeRX]

Wow, the DVC owners seem to get pretty offended when someone posts a negative opinion in this thread...

[magicofdisney]

I think it depends on what you define as "crazy expensive?"

I, personally, thought it was very affordable. If you spread the cost of our 160 points out over the 50 years or so we'll be able to use them it comes out to around $300 a year.

Factor in even $700 a year for maintenance fees (which is a good bit more than we pay now) and that sure seems like a bargain to me?

So you're paying $1000 a year to stay how long? At roughly the equivalent of a deluxe resort?

I'm thinking DVC is not for us. I'm more interested in going as often as possible and I don't mind staying at a value resort. In fact, that's what allows me to go as often as I do. With our last set of season passes we spent over 35 nights at Disney last year. Including those season passes, we spent right around $5300 last year. This is for a family of 6 (including a toddler).

[Ian]

So you're paying $1000 a year to stay how long? At roughly the equivalent of a deluxe resort?

First off, let's be clear ... I don't currently pay $700 a year in maintenance fees. I pay about $450 a year. That $700 assumes a massive, unprecedented increase in maintenance costs. My actual total cost is really around $750 a year.

Anyway ... it obviously depends on when you go, but roughly 160 should get us about 10 nights worth of vacation in a 1BR. Maybe a little less.

However, a 1BR villa is basically the equivalent to a suite in a deluxe resort. Last time I checked, they went for somewhere around $500 a night minimum. So my "$1,000" a year buys me roughly $5,000 worth of vacation. And that's at today's prices.

With our last set of season passes we spent over 35 nights at Disney last year. Including those season passes, we spent right around $5300 last year. This is for a family of 6 (including a toddler).

Well as you can see above, we get about 10 nights for our $1,000 a year. I'm not sure how much season passes are (I assume you're a FL resident?), but let's say they cost you $1,300. That means you spent 4 grand to stay 35 nights in value accomodations.

If you extrapolate my costs out, $1,000 for 10 nights = 40 nights for $4,000. And that would be in a 1 BR suite. Who got the better deal? Not to mention you'd have saved on your passes, too.

And, of course, this isn't even factoring in the 500 lb elephant in the room which is inflation. Even assuming my annual maintenance fees nearly double from their current rates, 25 years from now I'll still be paying $1,000 a year for those 10 nights vacation.

But how much will your 35 nights be costing you?