Song of the South [Merged Threads]

[NotaGeek]

We had such a fun and informative discussion the last time this topic came up I decided to merge the threads.

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Please keep in mind, Song of the South is one of the most sensitive films in the Disney Vault. INTERCOT Staff does not tolerate any sort of insensitivity between the members of our community. Please keep this in mind while we discuss this and all topics. Remember, even through we all have Disney in common, we ALL come from very different walks of life, have fun and keep your hands and arms inside this thread at all times.

[DisneyGiant]

Went to Wikipedia - and found this interesting comment:

When the film was first released, the NAACP acknowledged "the remarkable artistic merit" of the film, but decried the supposed "impression it gives of an idyllic master-slave relationship" (even though the film was set after the American Civil War). Today, the organization has no position on the movie. In 2003, the Online Film Critics Society ranked the film as the 67th greatest animated film of all time.

Also, the movie's star, James Baskett was unable to attend the premiere of the movie.

The film was completed and premiered on November 12, 1946 in Atlanta, GA. Baskett was reportedly unable to attend the premiere as no hotel within reach of the theater would rent him a room. Baskett won an honorary Oscar for his portrayal.

I can't even imagine what it was like to live like that.

As for what would Walt do? I'd like to think if he felt a group of people would be hurt by the re-release, he wouldn't do it.

I still think we have a long way to go to repair race relations, and if this movie could help - I say - release it.

[NotaGeek]

I still think we have a long way to go to repair race relations, and if this movie could help - I say - release it.

I am not sure how this would help race relations, the whole issue is the fact that this film can be considered highly offensive to African Americans and any other minority, or person that has felt the loss of civil liberties. Releasing the movie would be like Disney saying, sorry this might not be nice, but deal with it.

Personally, I wouldn't hate to see this movie again, just to see if it was as bad as I thought it was in my childhood. But my personal desires don't outweigh the desire I have for Disney to remain positive in public light.

[DisneyGiant]

I am not sure how this would help race relations, the whole issue is the fact that this film can be considered highly offensive to African Americans and any other minority, or person that has felt the loss of civil liberties. Releasing the movie would be like Disney saying, sorry this might not be nice, but deal with it.

I totally agree - I guess I was trying to say if people felt it could help, by showing us historically how things were...... like I said, I can't even imagine people not being able to stay at a hotel because of the color of their skin!

Personally, I wouldn't hate to see this movie again, just to see if it was as bad as I thought it was in my childhood. But my personal desires don't outweigh the desire I have for Disney to remain positive in public light.

Right - agree here too. I've never seen it - only heard about it - which is why I went to research it. I would definitely not want it released if it were to hurt anyone.

I wish Disney could make it over, using same stories, songs - but without the stereotypes of the past......

[TinkRocks]

Also I agree with you that Iger is really selling the average American short. Although, I suspect he's not at all concerned with how well people are able to "view this film in the proper context."

What he's concerned about is the uproar they'll hear from the NAACP and other civil rights groups if they announce the film's release.

A few thoughts crossed my mind while reading everyone's comments.

Is it just North America that does not have the opportunity to buy / watch SotS?

From what I understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong / misinformed), but Disney has a history of conducting research prior to making every film they produce. Yes, some facts / stories have been slightly off, but only to make a better movie / storyline.

Songs used in SotS are considered classic songs, and I think it would be a great opportunity for kids to know where these songs came from. If someone hears 'When You Wish Upon a Star,' I'm sure people think of Pinocchio.

Splash Mountain is a popular attraction based on SotS and, like other Disney theme park attractions, would help tie in with movie sales. Why did Disney build this ride in DL & WDW if SotS has never been released in North America? Yes, people can buy the movie on PAL, but why go through the trouble of buying the movie, only to convert it to NTSC format?

I have been very fortunate to have lived in three countries now, and have noticed that, IN GENERAL, this country's population loves to pick on every detail that could be offensive to anyone. People sue each other for anything. I'm not saying that this is true for everyone - this is a general comment. What I love about this country is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and are free to speak their mind. We should be respectful of everyone's opinions and not slam them. Open discussion should be a positive thing - if people disagree on an issue, fine. Agree to disagree. Move on to the next topic.

I'm glad Disney has not given a definite yes or no to releasing SotS on DVD and I hope they do consider / discuss this issue at length. If they feel that the release of the movie would raise a stink from certain groups (eg NAACP)- why doesn't Disney invite these groups for a discussion and work on a solution together. Why not put a segment on the DVD that explains the issues that the movie deals with, etc. Disney could set up a foundation that explores and educates the public on the issues of the film (like Spielberg did with Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation).

Ok - off my

[JPL]

The film is a part of cinematic history and is considered a classic and yet it is hidden away from film fans. I'm sure they can release in a historical context that would be satisfactory to most people. Of course some people will still be offended by anything and use it to advance their cause.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I have such mixed emotions about this. I don't desire for anyone to be hurt, but I also hate seeing a very talented man, James Baskett, sidelined by history. He was wonderful, not just as a black actor, but as an actor period. Gone With the Wind was far more offensive, truly, and my goodness, on my Chronological Donald Vol II the racial stereotypes were blatantly offensive to the modern viewer and were prefaced by Leonard Maitlin, who made no bones about it. I think that they could turn this into a positive, saying, "The way African American slavery/sharecropper life is depicted in this movie is obviously completely outrageous, and an affront to anyone who is the least bit knowledgeable about history, but we hope that you can appreciate and enjoy the stories of Brer Rabbit -- stories that are a rich part of the African American history of oral storytelling. The stories themselves are worthy of repetition, even if history has proven the original format to be ridiculous and short-sighted. Times have changed a lot since the movie's original release, but the tales of Brer Rabbit are timeless classics."

Anyway, that's how I would like to see it done. I read my kids the book of the Brer Rabbit stories we bought at WDW. They LOVE them. I teach them about the people who came up with those stories, and the history of the oral traditions of Africa. They think it's pretty neat that a lot of someone's were that creative and funny.

Just my 2 cents....

[JPL]

What still baffles my mind is the amount of money Disney loses dailly not releasing this with all the bootleg copies out there.

[NotaGeek]

What still baffles my mind is the amount of money Disney loses dailly not releasing this with all the bootleg copies out there.

It might actually send a different message if you consider that Disney doesn't release the movie, EVEN THOUGH they would make quite a bit of money, because they don't want to offend the millions upon millions of minorities that are Disney fans, friends and revenue generating park goers.

Everyone keeps comparing Song to Gone With the Wind, but realistically they aren't comparable. Gone with the Wind is placed during the Civil War, and there are no minced words that slaves were slaves and are portrayed like all slaves were during that era in Hollywood. Although neither is intended to be a historical account of anything, it's not the same thing as Goe with the Wind isn't a Disney title.

[JPL]

I just think it can be released in a way that it is put in historical context with an explanation and disclaimer to be less offensive. I realize it is a sensitive issue but it can be handled in a proper manner. A proper introduction and history of the film and it's stories could allow the film to be released.

[NotaGeek]

I think the real problem is that the real historical context in which the movie was made reflects a time when Hollywood made movies with complete disregard to historical conditions and how they portrayed oppressed minorities. We are taking about a recent time when there was no thought or consideration given to how anyone might find offense to they way people portrayed minorities because minorities had no voice, no power and no say-so in Hollywood.

That is no longer the case and t does make sense that since it's a much different world now, regardless of how one views political correctness as a necessity in our world, it is a fact that it's not a good business practice to ostracize and entire group of people that are part of the community in which Disney operates.

[crazy4disneyworld]

I wonder how anyone can possibly think Song of the South is offensive, when they seem to be perfectly alright with all the profanity in the movies and on TV (e.g. MTV)...

[NotaGeek]

I wonder how anyone can possibly think Song of the South is offensive, when they seem to be perfectly alright with all the profanity in the movies and on TV (e.g. MTV)...

You will have to read the whole thread to get an answer on this one ... it has nothing to do with profanity. And I am not sure to which "THEY" you are referring, but assuming you are talking about minorities, it has nothing to do with modern music and images on television or movies and how minorities view them. Disney doesn't own MTV and doesn't make modern movies with offensive themes.

[alphamommy]

I remember seeing SotS a couple times on TV as a child. My dad told the Br'er Rabbit stories (from memory) from the time I was a small child, and I have told them to my own DD.

As for SotS itself, I understand that we live in different times from when it was made. Yet I need to relate a story. My extended family is from the South, and many of them remain racist to this day. My sister, who is much older than I, can remember the "Whites Only" signs when visiting down South. She loves SotS because, when she saw it as a small child, it humanized the people that some of our relatives said horrible things about. She thinks that Uncle Remus' character could do the same for children today.

I can't say it's the greatest movie ever made, but there are parts of it that I really loved. Wish I could get a DVD of it!

[LibertyTreeGal]

Here's something interesting ( to me, anyway). I was thinking -- how about they remake the non-animated parts and keep the Brer Rabbit stuff. I thought, hmmm.....

But then I remembered that the music is more about James Baskett and his beautiful voice and performance than it was about the actual words. So remaking the rest to be more PC would ruin one of the most remarkable parts of the movie.

[goofysbabe]

I got a copy off ebay and it's kinda dark, but we were still able to enjoy it. It is a copy of a copy and it is in DVD format. The artwork-cover-jacket (whatever it's called) is a color copy. I purchased it because I love the movie - have fond memories of seeing it as a child and I wanted my children to be able to experience such a wonderful movie and by the way they love the songs. Hope this info. helps

(EDITED PER TOS. Please Review the INTERCOT TOS)

[Ian]

What doesn't make sense to me is that Disney appears to have had no issue releasing some of the World War II era shorts that were extremely, actively offensive to Asians and Germans.

And I'm not talking about the passive offensiveness of Song of the South ... I'm talking about films called "Donald Nips the Nips" and other gems like that.

Not that I don't understand them in the context in which they were created ... I do ... my point is, why did Disney think these films were okay to release and not SotS?

[DizneyRox]

What doesn't make sense to me is that Disney appears to have had no issue releasing some of the World War II era shorts that were extremely, actively offensive to Asians and Germans.

And I'm not talking about the passive offensiveness of Song of the South ... I'm talking about films called "Donald Nips the Nips" and other gems like that.

Touché

Good point! For some reason I totally forgot about that.

[LibertyTreeGal]

OOOH yeah... I watched those on my Chronological Donald Vol II. Jaw dropping offensive caricatures of the Japanese, Germans and Italians, and it was only 60 years ago that Japanese Americans were placed into camps in this country, as opposed to slavery 150 years ago. Der Fuhrer's Face is another. They weren't hiding the hatred back in WWII....

[NotaGeek]

Good point! Maybe it's because those movies are depicting our "enemies" ... and not people that would be considered fellow Americans. Very good point nonetheless!