Reasons NOT to join DVC

[RazdOnDis]

DW and I are seriously considering joining DVC as we are there at least once a year and usually twice. I appreciate the thread; its a great idea and is designed to get right to the point. I'd really like to pick up as much information as possible to discuss with DW because its getting close to crunch time as to go or no. I was just wondering if we could all just step back, take a deep breath and come out smiling. What do ya think?

[MaizeNBrew]

I *am* a DVC Member, here are the negatives that you need to be aware before becoming a member:

* If you don't go at least every 3 years, don't buy

* Don't buy to trade with interval international, DVC is one of the most expensive properties there is, and you could do much better trading with another quality property that won't be as expensive.

* DVC Members very rarely can get in on the package deals. I have been asking for them to create a meal plan package for 4 years now, doesn't happen.

* Risk of value, although fees cover insurance it doesn't cover what value the parks will have with things like economy going down, terrorism, et al. If the parks didn't operate at the level you expect, would staying in the resort be worth what you paid?

* Planning -- if you aren't a planner, don't even look at becoming a DVC member.

That is what I see as the negatives, if I had to do it all over again, post 9/11, I think I still would, but there are certainly negatives to think about.

[Amoladora]

For the DVC, you must purchase it with your heart, not your head. Financially, it makes no sense at all. It's just a lifestyle choice.

[Nana]

Amoladora,
Welcome to Intercot! [img]graemlins/muscles.gif[/img]

[ January 05, 2005, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: bradleysnana ]

[ronv22]

We bought 3 years ago. We purchased 200 pts at BCV, and the following year we bought 200 pts at VB. We originally thought it would be a great investment and the 2 years we used the pts were awesome. Why we chose to sell our pts was that it seemed that you can get a much better deal on hotels with the discounts. Now you do not get kitchens and extra bedrooms but the time we actually spend in the room we thought we were not getting the value that non dvc members take advantage of. We also thought there were alot more perks being dvc members but there is not. They give you discounts on meals and that is not that great. In my opinion DVC menbers pay alot of money and they should be offered more discounts like discounts on tickets then they get now. Like I said we thought it would be great and it was to some extent, but after careful financial review we deceided to get out.

[Ian]

Originally posted by Septbride2002:
We looked into joining DVC and decided against it for the following reasons:

1) We enjoy the oppurtunity to pick a resort based on our cost at that time and what we are in the mood for. For instance if I want to stay at French Quater - I want to be able to do so. If I want to stay at AKL in a standard room - I want the option.

2) The fact that on top of the expense for the resort that does not include admission into the parks. So in addition to the price of the DVC, the dues, and the admission to the parks we would spend about the same amount of $$ anyway over the next 10 years. Once the DVC price was paid would we actually begin to save money and that only happens if the dues do not continue to increase. And there is no set amount that the Dues will increase or not increase every year. No cap.

3) The contract limit - If I am going to spend this kind of money on a timeshare I want it to be there for a lifetime. I'm only 25 so in 42 years I'll only be 67 - still very young in my opinion.

4) I felt it took away from flexibilty and to be honest I enjoy the hunt. I love hunting for the best resort deal, best ticket deal, etc etc. It is part of the joy of planning to me.

5) We really were not sure if we would want to continue vacationing every year to Disney. Actually we are pretty sure that in January that will be our last trip for awhile (of course we have the cruise in May - but that to me doesn't count as a Disney Park trip). We will be doing Napa Valley in 2006 for a friends wedding and in 2007 we want to go to Hawaii.

~Amanda

Amanda, you took the words right out of my mouth. These reasons are virutally identical to the reasons DW and I did not buy in.

[mjstaceyuofm]

Originally posted by Amoladora:
For the DVC, you must purchase it with your heart, not your head. Financially, it makes no sense at all. It's just a lifestyle choice.

This sums it up quite well. There are many arguments for and against becoming a DVC member. We've owned for 8 years and have enjoyed it very much so far. I can always see a Disney trip being an annual or every other year event for us personally. When we do our own (albeit very personal) analysis - it makes sense for us to own and continue to own our DVC interest. In some cases (like last year) it was 3 vacations to WDW in a year all at DVC resorts.

One trend I'm noticing as a DVC member that dissapoints me tremendously is the very large point increases we are seeing lately by DVC for other Disney sponsored venues such as the Concierge Collection, DL and WDW hotels, Disney cruises, etc. If they keep up, the only reason to own DVC will be to stay in the DVC resorts. Not a bad option and the reason we bought, but the diversity of venues at reasonable point exchanges was very nice. That is slowly slipping away and a potential reason to not join DVC if you thought you'd take advantage of these options on occasion.

BTW Ian - are you telling me reason #5 posted above is really in play for you? I know you don't like the way things have gone over the past 10-12 years or so in WDW, but really...... [img]graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[deb]

What about the people like us who joined when they first opened, paid somewhere around $40/point and paid it off 10 years ago? We now vacation every year for the cost of dues only-Won't everyone who buys now be able to say the same thing 10 years from now when the points cost $200 and it costs $1000/night to rent a villa?

[mjstaceyuofm]

Originally posted by deb:
What about the people like us who joined when they first opened, paid somewhere around $40/point and paid it off 10 years ago? We now vacation every year for the cost of dues only-Won't everyone who buys now be able to say the same thing 10 years from now when the points cost $200 and it costs $1000/night to rent a villa?

Good point. I've often thought it was a financially smart decision for us too as we paid about $50 a point compared to the $85+ it costs for points now..... Ours is paid off, the dues are about $75 a month for us, we get to write off property taxes from our DVC interest and now get a very good discount on annual passes. For us the economics work out quite well. Yes Disney has discounted a lot lately, but when things pick up in the World as they seem to be now, I'm not so sure you'll be able to find the bargains you've been able to over the last 3-4 years. The arguments roll either way, but as this is a DVC "negatives" board, I'll stick to what I said in my post earlier.

My wife and I stayed in Washington D.C. in 1998 for 6 days for something like 138 points at a great hotel right across the street from the Russian Embassy and a few blocks north of the White House. Now they don't even participate with that hotel anymore and the replacement resort in D.C. would cost about 200-250 points for the equivalent..... Not good.

[cherie68]

Hi just got back from Disney and this is our third Disney related trip in three years. AKL twice and the Disney Cruise. Anyway got caught up in the moment ant listen to one of the DVC things. We put a deposit down now returned home have a lot of reget I think, have two little ones things just happen so fast hope it is a good idea some give me advice I would be so thankful

[ January 24, 2005, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: cherie68 ]

[Anjabyber]

For me the one and only reason would be we simply cannot afford DVC. It is nice for those that can afford it and enjoy it.

[dlpmikki]

Welcome to intercot Cherie68 [img]graemlins/mickey.gif[/img]

Have a look at some of the responses on these highlighted topics - reasons to buy / not buy and number crunching. We also have a lot of information over in Info central about how it all works.

If you have a ny specific concerns / questions then start a new topic to get personalised answers from other intercot members.

[Disneym8]

I posted a topic under Theme parks which an administrater should move to Vacation club.

The new post gives one more good reason to join DVC. Monthly dues can be paid for with Disney Visa Points. I would also recommend buying resales.

[Amoladora]

Gosh. The Number Crunching thread was very interesting. Grinder's math was certainly correct. But I continue to argue with my husband and tell him that it is not about the money! I printed out the Number Crunching thread for my husband and showed it to him. He told me, "Grinder is right and these others don't want facts to disturb their fantasy". My husband is a CPA.

So, as much as I'd like us to join the DVC, it's not going to happen right now.

[TiggerBite]

We just came back today from 8 days at PopCen. We had a wonderful vacation! I am currently in denial because tomorrow it's back to work.

While in the parks, hotels and at Downtown Disney I noticed the kiosks for DVC. I never noticed these kiosks when I was at WDW in 8/03 at WL.

I decided to take a look at SSR. The salesman (who stated that he was a real estate agent - let's face it he's there to sell) kept referring to it as an "investment" and made it a point to make sure I understood that I was "investing" in a real estate property....which we know is not true.

If this is such a good idea, why am I seeing these kiosks everywhere? You don't get the strong arm tactics like you do in Las Vegas, but I can't help but wonder why we are seeing so many....just curious.

I do have a few points/questions:

1) How often does the the purchase price of points go up? I was quoted a price of $98 per point. However, I saw posted a price of $85 per point.

2) How much "control" do you really have over this "investment"? What if the management of the property decides: all the kitchens need to be upgraded because they are ten years old; the pool is too small and it needs a bigger and better slide; or - what if there is hurricane damage? How often do maintenance fees go up?

3) Let's say it is 11 months out and I want to make my reservation. However, I cannot get a 1 BR with a water view because they are already gone, or only efficiencies are available. What recourse do I have? I know I can try another resort, but ony at 7 months out.

4) I love WDW. However, I honestly thought there would be more perks for a DVC member. Okay, you get a discount on tickets. How about 6 "right-now fastpasses" per park, per day? You know this is something they can do.

I was sitting on the fence, but now I am not too sure. It does just sound like I am prepaying a vacation. I could see myself going every other year or every two years, but there doesn't appear to be enough reasons to make it worthwhile.

Also, how can you "rent" off of another DVC member? Do they advertise information about this? If you do rent off of a DVC member, are you able to take advantage of package deals?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Now I must go to bed....it's back to the grind tomorow [img]graemlins/ack.gif[/img]

[dlpmikki]

Originally posted by TiggerBite:


I do have a few points/questions:

1) How often does the the purchase price of points go up? I was quoted a price of $98 per point. However, I saw posted a price of $85 per point.

2) How much "control" do you really have over this "investment"? What if the management of the property decides: all the kitchens need to be upgraded because they are ten years old; the pool is too small and it needs a bigger and better slide; or - what if there is hurricane damage? How often do maintenance fees go up?

3) Let's say it is 11 months out and I want to make my reservation. However, I cannot get a 1 BR with a water view because they are already gone, or only efficiencies are available. What recourse do I have? I know I can try another resort, but ony at 7 months out.

4) I love WDW. However, I honestly thought there would be more perks for a DVC member. Okay, you get a discount on tickets. How about 6 "right-now fastpasses" per park, per day? You know this is something they can do.

I was sitting on the fence, but now I am not too sure. It does just sound like I am prepaying a vacation. I could see myself going every other year or every two years, but there doesn't appear to be enough reasons to make it worthwhile.

Also, how can you "rent" off of another DVC member? Do they advertise information about this? If you do rent off of a DVC member, are you able to take advantage of package deals?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Now I must go to bed....it's back to the grind tomorow [img]graemlins/ack.gif[/img]

1) Points were first sold in 1991 at $51. They seem to go up about twice a year

2)No control really apart from feedback. It is set up so Disney can do what they like. Maintenance fees do got up each year (usually - but there have been a couple when they have gone down). Average 5-8% increase last few years.

3)Views are request only and you don't know till you get there what you will actually get. At 11 months out you should not have any problem getting what you want. 10,9 or 8 months and if you are after a popular time it could be a different story. They do use a wait list system which many members have found useful to get the times / locations they want.

4)Perks keep changing. The discount on APs is new and a big improvement for most members on the previous length of stay tickets. Extra fast passes sounds like a fun idea - who knows maybe they will do something like that sometime.

It should be viewed as prepaying for a holiday and not an investment.

If you do a google search for 'dvc renting points' you will find a number of sites that rent points.

Have fun back at the grind!

[John D]

Originally posted by TiggerBite:
How much "control" do you really have over this "investment"?

I am frequently alerted to the time and place of upcoming shareholder meetings, and invited to attend.

I have never attended one, but I would guess that if someone wanted to express himself or herself to DVC management, or provide input to the decision-making process, a shareholder meeting would be the forum in which to do it.

[Natazu]

After reading the above posts, I have to say most of them boil down to "is DVC right for me" not "is DVC a good deal" which is fine. People should make decisions based on their lifestyle and financial status.

For me, all of the objections I thought of, I was able to overcome on my own.

[Sam Pinizzotto]

Well I have a lot I'd like to say, some of which probably should be in the other discussion thread. But, my first statement will explain why it's not...

I think it's very unrealistic to have a thread for "Reasons NOT to join DVC" and not allow those that agree with owning DVC the opportunity to argue the very points raised by those arguing against. Some of the negative information may not even be true or it's more of an opinion. So if it's not challenged, then it really isn't helpful to a person seriously considering the DVC.

Lets take discounts as an example...There are a lot of perks that the DVC provides. Just because a person doesn't or wouldn't take advantage of a discount or perk, means they may say "Not enough discounts are available to members"...Well if you look at what IS available to the members, it's a good amount. Now I will say that in some cases the discounts are not that impressive, but they are discounts none the less. And if you eat at the Yachtman Steakhouse, you will pay 10% more than me.

There is also people saying that DVC is not an investment. I would say that this is not entirely true. As others have stated, the cost of the buy in per point is historically lower than the resale. This may not always be the case, but isn't that the same risk you take when you purchase a condo, another timeshare, a car etc.? Granted, as 2042 approaches, the resale value will not be great, but the rental on points will still get you a return on your purchase. And until that point when the resale is just as good as or better than what you paid, a sale of your DVC ownership will net you a break even or close to break even on your initial payout. Isn't that considered as a good thing? Especially since you have used the points for quality vacations while you owned it.

I know for us...we have a little girl and hope to have another child...the Studio we get with DVC is much more conveinient for "baby things" than the regular rooms you rent directly.

The newest perk...$100 discount on the AP is really nice. We would buy these passes anyway, so we save $200. Yes, we have paid well more that this in our yearly Maintenance dues, but it's still a savings from our normal payout.

And again...not to beat a dead horse or anything...the final decision to purchase DVC has to be based on you personal preferences, budget, lifestyle, financial situation, etc.

I would ask anyone reading this thread to read the others, post questions to BOTH and weigh the comments here (even including mine) lightly until you can find evidence and proof to back it up. Some of the comments here, when read, sound like buying DVC is just like opening up the shield on your fireplace and tossing in $14,000...others can be read as when you buy DVC you have 51% of the controling interest in the Disney Company. I think it's somewhere in between both of these...

[MCeee]

We, like some others posting here enjoy going many places when we vacation. Although we are not DVC members, we have been to WDW at least once every two years. On these occasions we have found incredible deals on site by just doing some research. And, yes, we have rented points from DVC owners. They have said that they always appreciate having some like us to rent from them when they are not able to go as often as they like. About 4 years ago, we were staying at the Boardwalk Villas and decided to do the "DVC sales tour". We were very impressed with everything! The "impulse" almost got us. We decided to sleep on it (we could tell the salesman didn't like this), and the next day he called our room like 4 times! When we told him that we were NOT going to go for it right now, he just about lost it! He became very rude, saying that this was the way he made his living and so on.... (Like we didn't know that). At that point we realized we had made the right choice. For us, not buying in was the right choice, and still is.