DHS Expansion

[Stu29573]

How do you come up with that statement, "overestimated". Internet bloggers, with no real evidence outside other bloggers, are the ones who say TEA and AECOM have grossly miscalculated numbers. And if the calculation process is wrong for Disney, it's probably miscalculated for anything Universal.

As far as IOA overtaking DHS, that's unlikely. There's a 2 million person gap. IOA would have to attract 5500 more people/day. And that's with DHS adding virtually nothing for years, and Universal pouring money into their parks. If DHS adds a Cars ride, or a fan-attracting-land like StarWars Land, expect them to jump past AK again, and leave Universal in the dust.

......Or they could call the park "Hunk of Land With Misc. Extra Attractions"....... My point is, I dont care about the numbers ( at this point I would be shot if I were in a TDO board meeting) there needs to be a point to the place....

[DizneyFreak2002]

How do you come up with that statement, "overestimated". Internet bloggers, with no real evidence outside other bloggers, are the ones who say TEA and AECOM have grossly miscalculated numbers. And if the calculation process is wrong for Disney, it's probably miscalculated for anything Universal.

Or maybe the info is coming from management types who say DHS did not pull in close to 10 million like TEA states... The other parks, however, TEA estimated pretty close... and of course, since they are estimates, not actual numbers so yea, for ALL the parks, they could be over estimating...

As far as IOA overtaking DHS, that's unlikely. There's a 2 million person gap. IOA would have to attract 5500 more people/day. And that's with DHS adding virtually nothing for years, and Universal pouring money into their parks. If DHS adds a Cars ride, or a fan-attracting-land like StarWars Land, expect them to jump past AK again, and leave Universal in the dust.

Read above... DHS did NOT pull in nearly 10 million as others (people in Disney) have suggested off the record, and these same people have said the number may be closer to 8.5... So the gap may actually be closer to 1 million, not 2 million as you suggest... Easy enough to make that difference up in a few years, especially since Universal is adding and Disney is staying stagnant... Oh, and even with Cars and Star Wars, nothing will open until at LEAST 2018... Plenty of time for IOA/Uni to leave DHS in the dust..

Why do WDW fans get their feathers in a ruffle when someone dares say IOA/Uni is primed to over take one of WDW's theme parks in attendance? Or when someone says, GASP, Universal and IOA are much better than any of the 4 WDW stale parks right now?

[Gator]

Why do WDW fans get their feathers in a ruffle when someone dares say IOA/Uni is primed to over take one of WDW's theme parks in attendance? Or when someone says, GASP, Universal and IOA are much better than any of the 4 WDW stale parks right now?

This is starting to sound more like sour grapes from a fired employee than someone who genuinely cares about the upkeep and improvement of WDW.

Is DHS at the bottom of the heap at WDW? Yes. That's why they're planning to improve it. That said, DHS doesn't s**k like you make it sound like it does. I always spend two days there on every trip. Tower, RnRc, Indy, Fant!, TSMM, StarTours, the giant Hat.... I love it all. Does it have a boring behind the scenes tour? No. Is the Backlot Tour what it used to be? No. That's because if someone wanted that, you can go to Universal. In marketing, it's called product placement and differentiation.

I can appreciate someone wanting to keep Disney honest. I think WDW can always continue to improve, which in the last 10 years that I've been able to go, it certainly has. Just don't attack it like a Yankee attacks the RedSox, and you won't ruffle feathers.

[Tearin_it_up]

Is nobody else devastated at the thought of losing Indy? I know the show has been around forever, but so has a lot of the best stuff at WDW. My favorite movie being taken out of my favorite park at my favorite place on Earth is very sad to me.

[DizneyFreak2002]

This is starting to sound more like sour grapes from a fired employee than someone who genuinely cares about the upkeep and improvement of WDW.

Well good thing I am not a disgruntled fired former WDW employee...

Is DHS at the bottom of the heap at WDW? Yes. That's why they're planning to improve it. That said, DHS doesn't s**k like you make it sound like it does. I always spend two days there on every trip. Tower, RnRc, Indy, Fant!, TSMM, StarTours, the giant Hat.... I love it all. Does it have a boring behind the scenes tour? No. Is the Backlot Tour what it used to be? No. That's because if someone wanted that, you can go to Universal. In marketing, it's called product placement and differentiation.

Well, Universal Orlando does not have an outdated, boring back lot tour with absolutely nothing to see... DHS still does (but not much longer!!!)... Fantasmic! needs major work... The hat needs to go... Indy is out dated now... It shows its age... It also is not long for this world... Get your last shows in now, record it... Won't be around much longer...

I am glad you enjoy the park... Notice not one person here ever said the rides were terrible... Please, read what has been stated, not what you want to think people are saying... Stu, many other fans, and I are saying the park has no cohesive theme (it doesn't), and has lost its direction (it has)... I am also stating the facts that DHS is the least attended WDW park despite TEA's numbers (again, closer to 8 - 8.5 than 10)... I stated a fact when I said DHS is the worst park for merchandise sales... And it is also a fact that many guests (a major majority actually) only visit DHS as a half day park... Disney's own numbers (facts, not made up) tell them people either visit in the morning and leave in the afternoon, or arrive in the afternoon and stay for Fantasmic... Very few guests spend the entire day there... And the one WDW park which loses a day to Universal? DHS... Though DAK is not far behind...

I can appreciate someone wanting to keep Disney honest. I think WDW can always continue to improve, which in the last 10 years that I've been able to go, it certainly has. Just don't attack it like a Yankee attacks the RedSox, and you won't ruffle feathers.

I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse... You pay more for less... They have cut so much during the last 10 - 15 years, it isn't even funny... Maintenance has been extremely poor during the last 10-15 years... The parks have gotten very stale during this same time period...

Hey, it isn't my fault WDW fans cannot handle the truth about WDW... Not my fault their feathers get ruffled cause they cannot handle any negative reporting about WDW... And not my problem Red Sox fans cannot accept ribbing about their team...

Let me end by saying, I hope the Star Wars plans are true, especially what has recently been described for the E ticket...

[Altair]

Is nobody else devastated at the thought of losing Indy? I know the show has been around forever, but so has a lot of the best stuff at WDW. My favorite movie being taken out of my favorite park at my favorite place on Earth is very sad to me.

Yes I'll miss this, too. I always thought this show could be easily updated or at least changed just a bit.

[thejens]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction. I think this is what makes WDW exceptional and different from other theme/thrill/amusement parks. This was Walt's special gift, the sense of story, theming and magic. It seems that the studios began with a theme, I never visited then. There is not a cohesive theme at all in my experience. It's lay out is confusing, and is the only park I get lost in. There are no clearly themed areas so it feels random. We spend less time every time we go, and my kids LOVE Star Wars. I think people may spend less on merchandise partly because there is no reason to linger. I love to be in the other three parks because the very atmosphere captivates me. I am happy the minute I cross through the turnstiles. Each land in MK has it's own happy vibe! Epcot is so beautiful and has so many different themed areas and great music, I always know where I am and understand the theming. In AK I love the exotic music for each area, enjoy the animals and plants and interesting shops and entertainers. I just want to spend time even if I am not on an attraction. Honestly, I don't care if the Yeti swoops (okay, truthfully I'm scared to open my eyes here!) because I love the line, the fun shops, watching the monkeys while I wait for my brave sons to get off this ride. The entire experience of AK is enjoyable to me. At the studios I am looking at a map, racing from one attraction to another hoping to get a fast pass for TOT, RR and Toy Story, and then wondering how to get out of the park and into the pool. There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I am excited they will pay attention to this park, but I hope they give thought to the overall feel and organization of the park, tell as story, and invite us to walk down a path with beckoning details and rich sensory cues.

Consistency would be good too, I still cringe to see Darth Vader boogie with Princess Leia. This is a serious break in character. You might as well take off his mask and have him smoke a cigarette.

Anyway, this year we will spend three days (that would normally be our second days at WDW parks) at Universal, and experience the WW of HP. I understand the storytelling here is detailed and immersive. I truly hope that WDW will remember its story telling roots and take the lead again.

[Stu29573]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction. I think this is what makes WDW exceptional and different from other theme/thrill/amusement parks. This was Walt's special gift, the sense of story, theming and magic. It seems that the studios began with a theme, I never visited then. There is not a cohesive theme at all in my experience. It's lay out is confusing, and is the only park I get lost in. There are no clearly themed areas so it feels random. We spend less time every time we go, and my kids LOVE Star Wars. I think people may spend less on merchandise partly because there is no reason to linger. I love to be in the other three parks because the very atmosphere captivates me. I am happy the minute I cross through the turnstiles. Each land in MK has it's own happy vibe! Epcot is so beautiful and has so many different themed areas and great music, I always know where I am and understand the theming. In AK I love the exotic music for each area, enjoy the animals and plants and interesting shops and entertainers. I just want to spend time even if I am not on an attraction. Honestly, I don't care if the Yeti swoops (okay, truthfully I'm scared to open my eyes here!) because I love the line, the fun shops, watching the monkeys while I wait for my brave sons to get off this ride. The entire experience of AK is enjoyable to me. At the studios I am looking at a map, racing from one attraction to another hoping to get a fast pass for TOT, RR and Toy Story, and then wondering how to get out of the park and into the pool. There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I am excited they will pay attention to this park, but I hope they give thought to the overall feel and organization of the park, tell as story, and invite us to walk down a path with beckoning details and rich sensory cues.

Consistency would be good too, I still cringe to see Darth Vader boogie with Princess Leia. This is a serious break in character. You might as well take off his mask and have him smoke a cigarette.

Anyway, this year we will spend three days (that would normally be our second days at WDW parks) at Universal, and experience the WW of HP. I understand the storytelling here is detailed and immersive. I truly hope that WDW will remember its story telling roots and take the lead again.

Well said!

[Gator]

I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse...

You really leave me no choice. Here's my list of improvements.

MK: Jack Sparrow at POTC, Daily opening of Tortuga Tavern, queue improvement of BTMRRR and Winnie the Pooh, Magic Memories & You, Wishes, Holiday Castle Lights, new Train Station, Little Mermaid dark ride, Dumbo twin ride and play area, Be Our Guest Restaurant, Gaston's Tavern, Belle's Enchanted, Mickey's Philharmagic, Monster's Inc Laugh Floor.

Epcot: Mission Space, Soarin', improved Mexico boat ride with Donald Duck (my kid's favorite), no more wand on SSE, improved Test Track (my son's new favorite), new dining all over World Showcase.

DHS: improved Star Tours, Lights Motors Action, American Idol (I don't like it, but thousands hit it every day), new randomized Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania.

AK: Everest, Nemo the Musical, Yak&Yeti, Wild Africa Trek.

WDW: Saratoga Springs, POP Century, Art of Animation, Bay Lake Tower, Kidani Village.

I just listed over 30 improvements, and I'm sure I left some out. So with a straight face, WDW has improved over the last 10 years. Anyone looking at this list and denying improvement really needs an attitude adjustment. Cheer up, man. It's all Disney, and it's all good

And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.

[AndrewJackson]

Gator - I agree. I see WDW much improved over the past several years. I think a low point was late 2001 and through 2003. Disney was trying to figure out how do deal with a post 9/11 economy. They aggressively offered some deep resort discounts, and got the attendance numbers back. Now, they are investing some serious capital into the place. I also think the maintenance has drastically improved over the past decade.

And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.

C'mon now. I think we all know who will have the last word.

[big blue and hairy]

......Or they could call the park "Hunk of Land With Misc. Extra Attractions"....... My point is, I dont care about the numbers ( at this point I would be shot if I were in a TDO board meeting) there needs to be a point to the place....

While I agree that DHS needs improvement, a point to the place isn't the problem. Epcot doesn't have a point, it has several. Adding Star Wars and Cars to DHS would be terrific and would not require a re-brand. It doesn't have be a literal studio to be called Hollywood Studios. Studios made the movies, it's close enough for Rock-n-roll.

[ChipNDale79]

You really leave me no choice. Here's my list of improvements.

MK: Jack Sparrow at POTC, Daily opening of Tortuga Tavern, queue improvement of BTMRRR and Winnie the Pooh, Magic Memories & You, Wishes, Holiday Castle Lights, new Train Station, Little Mermaid dark ride, Dumbo twin ride and play area, Be Our Guest Restaurant, Gaston's Tavern, Belle's Enchanted, Mickey's Philharmagic, Monster's Inc Laugh Floor.

Epcot: Mission Space, Soarin', improved Mexico boat ride with Donald Duck (my kid's favorite), no more wand on SSE, improved Test Track (my son's new favorite), new dining all over World Showcase.

DHS: improved Star Tours, Lights Motors Action, American Idol (I don't like it, but thousands hit it every day), new randomized Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania.

AK: Everest, Nemo the Musical, Yak&Yeti, Wild Africa Trek.

WDW: Saratoga Springs, POP Century, Art of Animation, Bay Lake Tower, Kidani Village.

I just listed over 30 improvements, and I'm sure I left some out. So with a straight face, WDW has improved over the last 10 years. Anyone looking at this list and denying improvement really needs an attitude adjustment. Cheer up, man. It's all Disney, and it's all good

And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.

They've made improvements and additions in the past 10-15 years sure, but they' have also let a lot of things get stale and old.

DHS is a perfect example of that, sure they updated Star Tours, added AI, and TSMM, notice I'm not mentioning ToT in here (randomizing the ride doesn't wow me). Other than that, the park is a shell of it's self, it's not a working studio anymore, therefore it now has zero theme to it. As others have noted it's confusing and a half day park. We used to love DHS, but now its our least favorite at WDW, there's just not enough there for us.

In Epcot they've closed an entire pavilion and let it just sit there, not to mention how old and dated Ellen's Energy Adventure is. In fact is a joke to many people, it's a place to go and take a nap. From there they took out a 3D show based on a movie from the 80s/90s and replaced it with something even older. They've allowed a restaurant that sits smack dab in the middle of the park to remain empty and an eyesore. Adding Donald to the boatride in Mexico is an improvement? I love Donald, (I love seeing him harassed by ChipNDale too though hehe) but it's very oddly done IMO, in fact it looks really cheap and doesn't fit

Not to mention the signature attraction at AK doesn't work correctly.

On top of all of this, WDW allowed an unfinished resort to sit idle for 10 years. We stayed at POP Century a few years ago facing the Legendary Years Side, what a view, it looked like a nuclear war zone, nothing you would expect at WDW. Thank god they finally righted that wrong.

If rumors are true and big things are coming, then it's about time. It's time for the Disney Company to show WDW some real love.

[brie9877]

I hope they wont get rid of LM. Thats one of my and my DDs favorite Disney movies.

i am not a SW fan and I know they bought the rights for that and for Avatar but neither of those franchises fits with the Disney themes IMHO.

[Mousemates]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction....There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I'm with you on that thought...while the park has three great rides, once we have made the TSM, RnR, ToT loop we are pretty much done there.

We can happily wander for a few hours through AKL watching the animals and enjoying some of the various entertainment offerings. We also enjoy simply strolling around the lake and through the shops at Epcot's world showcase. And, like many, we can spend an entire evening in the MK simply soaking in the ambiance while people watching on Mainstreet and Fantasyland ...but DHS simply doesn't have "it" for us.

Walking through most of DHS really feels no different than walking through Downtown Disney (only with fewer intriguing shops and good eateries.)

[Mousemates]

I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse... You pay more for less... They have cut so much during the last 10 - 15 years, it isn't even funny... Maintenance has been extremely poor during the last 10-15 years... The parks have gotten very stale during this same time period...

With the exception of the MK (due to the ongoing expansion of Fantasyland) I tend to agree with you. And while I really like the new addition, what they in essence did was make the greatest investment/improvement in/to the park that needed it the least.

[DizneyFreak2002]

With the exception of the MK (due to the ongoing expansion of Fantasyland) I tend to agree with you. And while I really like the new addition, what they in essence did was make the greatest investment/improvement in/to the park that needed it the least.

Actually, MK needed it... The park is literally bursting at the seams... The capacity at the park has been reduced with all the cuts TDO has made over the last 10 or 15 years (but hey that's an IMPROVEMENT!!!!)... And the new area: Little Mermaid already has broken AA's, MK did not gain a ride (20K and Snow White replaced by Mermaid and 7D = no net gain in ride numbers), BoG has already reduced menu offerings and jacked the price (and it hasn't even been open a year yet!!!)...

Off the top of my head, I listed 50 things that have been taken away, dumbed down, or cut which makes WDW worse today than it was 10-15 years ago... Don't have time to post them right now... But I may do that in the future... So, yea, anyone saying WDW has improved over the last 10-15 years with a straight face has either just visited for the first time during this current down cycle or they are just so addicted to pixie dust they cannot see the decline in the product (and they has been a very noticeable decline)...

[Butters]

Actually, MK needed it... The park is literally bursting at the seams... The capacity at the park has been reduced with all the cuts TDO has made over the last 10 or 15 years (but hey that's an IMPROVEMENT!!!!)... And the new area: Little Mermaid already has broken AA's, MK did not gain a ride (20K and Snow White replaced by Mermaid and 7D = no net gain in ride numbers), BoG has already reduced menu offerings and jacked the price (and it hasn't even been open a year yet!!!)...

Off the top of my head, I listed 50 things that have been taken away, dumbed down, or cut which makes WDW worse today than it was 10-15 years ago... Don't have time to post them right now... But I may do that in the future... So, yea, anyone saying WDW has improved over the last 10-15 years with a straight face has either just visited for the first time during this current down cycle or they are just so addicted to pixie dust they cannot see the decline in the product (and they has been a very noticeable decline)...

I agree it has been a product on the decline, I'm sure there are many reasons... But Disney is a publicly traded company that found a way to be profitable as an entertainment destination in one of our nations largest recessions.

That being said, I wish they would put more magic into the parks, and maintain what they already have, but until there becomes a business need to do so I'm afraid it will not happen.

As a Disney fan I'm rooting for universal to build the biggest and best park possible and keep whittling away at Disney market share since that will be the only thing that will justify a true investment into the parks!