Did you know?

[Main Street Jim]

Oh wow! I was never aware of this! Very cool information, Jim. Do you know if both ships were identical paddle-wheelers? Or were they different? I don't suppose one of them was a sailing ship like at Disneyland! So, that's why I assume they are similar in style. Kinda like... Mark Twain "Lite" -- clones?

They were, in fact, both paddlewheelers, but very different deck, cabin, and boiler/steam designs. Do a Google photo search on both boats.

Legend has it that the Fowler actually sank *in* Seven Seas lagoon on its way *TO* the drydock (just north of the Contemporary Resort). When they tried to crane it out of the water, the deck literally broke in two, damaging the boat beyond repair.

The Fowler had twin stacks, while the Irvine had a single stack.

[Elias1901]

The Fowler had twin stacks, while the Irvine had a single stack.

Very interesting! I do like the twin stack design better than the single. Did the Fowler look more like the Mark Twain did? I guess I can just do a Google image search now.

Isn't there another Fowler as the name of one of the TTC - MK ferryboats?

[Main Street Jim]

Very interesting! I do like the twin stack design better than the single. Did the Fowler look more like the Mark Twain did? I guess I can just do a Google image search now.

Isn't there another Fowler as the name of one of the TTC - MK ferryboats?

Yes.

The original names of the ferry boats (TTC) were "Kingdom Queen" I, II, and III. They were renamed "General Joe Potter", "Richard F. Irvine", and "Admiral Joe Fowler".

[Elias1901]

Yes.

The original names of the ferry boats (TTC) were "Kingdom Queen" I, II, and III. They were renamed "General Joe Potter", "Richard F. Irvine", and "Admiral Joe Fowler".

Any story behind the names? People at Disney? Or something else?

[Main Street Jim]

Any story behind the names? People at Disney? Or something else?

Yep

Richard Irvine: In the early 1950s Walt Disney asked Irvine to help construct Disneyland. He moved from 20th Century Fox to the Walt Disney Studio in 1952 and became a senior figure at Walt Disney Imagineering (WDI). Until his retirement in 1973, he headed design and planning for all Disneyland attractions including the Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean. Irvine became executive vice president and chief operations officer at WDI in 1967.

Irvine's daughter Maggie followed in her father's footsteps and also joined WDI. His son married Kim Thomas (now Kim Irvine, who currently is an art director at WDI), who is Imagineering colleague Leota Toombs's daughter.

Irvine died in 1976 in Los Angeles, California after suffering an illness that prevented him from visiting the complete Walt Disney World Resort, which opened in 1971. In his honor, one of the original Walt Disney World riverboats was named after him.

Admiral Joe Fowler: a retired Naval Admiral who played an important part in the building of Walt Disney World. Admiral Fowler had run the San Francisco naval shipyard during WW II, when Walt Disney was looking for a naval expert to help with the building of the Mark Twain Steamship in 1954 for the then under-construction Disneyland. He found the retired Admiral supervising the construction of tract homes in the San Francisco region, and hired him as the construction boss for the whole Disneyland project. After Disneyland was completed, Fowler stayed on as General Manager of the park for its first 10 years, and assisted with the construction of Walt Disney World. He retired from the Disney organization in 1978, though he continued as a consultant.

General Joe Potter: Potter masterminded much of the behind-the-scenes work that keeps the theme park running, such as canals and underground utilities that were considered revolutionary in the '60s and '70s. Dick Nunis, president of Walt Disney Attractions, said Walt Disney World would not exist were it not for Potter's ingenuity and dedication.

''He was a man Walt Disney was very fond of,'' Nunis said. ''Without a Joe Potter there would be no Walt Disney World today.''

Before joining Disney, Potter was a veteran of major construction projects. He had served 38 years with the Army Corps of Engineers and was second in charge of construction at the New York World's Fair in 1964. He also was governor of the Panama Canal Zone and president of the Panama Canal Co. in the 1950s.

An engineer, Potter was determined to build an infrastructure for Disney World, including underground sewer, power and water treatment plants, which many civic leaders termed impractical and ''futuristic.'' His dedication to the Disney project helped him prevail against strikes and other setbacks that threatened the park's opening on Oct. 1, 1971. In 1968, facing a strike by equipment operators seeking to unionize, Potter said, ''Only the weather can keep us from getting back on schedule at this time.''

Walt Disney and Potter met at the New York World's Fair and are said to have had a congenial rapport.

''It didn't take you long to realize that Walt was a beginner of things, not a finisher,'' Potter said.

[Elias1901]

Thanks again Jim! I can always count on you for my fill of Disney know-how!

[Main Street Jim]

Did you know:

1) That there are 24 total individual characters (23 in the current show) in the Country Bear Jamboree?:

Henry I, II, and III (next time you see the show, notice Henry appears in three different locations)
Trixie
Teddi Barra
Zeke, Zeb, Ted, Fred, and Tennessee
Wendell
Shaker
Ernest
Big Al
Max, Melvin, and Buff
Bunny, Bubbles, and Beulah
Oscar and Mayer (the "baby bear" with the "teddy bear" on stage)
Sammy (the raccoon)
and...Rufus.

Rufus could only be heard during the Vacation Hoedown and Christmas shows.

2) that there are four Tom Sawyer Island rafts? The Tom Sawyer, the Huck Finn, the Becky Thatcher, and the Injun Joe. Tom was the easiest to maneuver, and Joe was a bit of a pain...LOL They're all free-floating, as well - not on a rail at all.

3) that the roller coasters, like Big Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain get a little bit faster as the day goes on? That's because early in the day, the grease for the urethane wheels hasn't quite "warmed up" and thinned out yet. As the coasters move throughout the day, the grease gets "worked in" and thins out a bit, thus creating a bit less friction - and a bit quicker ride

4) that the Treehouse Villas at Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort were once used by Disney International College Program Cast Members? In 2004, the Treehouses were damaged by multiple hurricanes; at one point, we had four hurricanes in three weeks. Trees fell and damaged several Treehouses. In about 2006, Disney and Buena Vista Construction started reworking the villas and clearing out damaged trees, and ICP's - College Program kids from abroad - were housed in the treehouses until Disney managed a full reworking of the villas into what you now see.

3) that prior to CyberSpace Mountain at Downtown Disney's DisneyQuest, and The Sum of All Thrills at Innoventions East, there were kiosks inside of CommuniCore at EPCOT Center where you could design and "ride" ("test") your own rollercoaster? I mean, we're talking monochrome green-and-black computer terminals and the early to mid-1980's here, kids...LOL

4) that part of Walt Disney's railroading legacy lives on at WDW's Wilderness Lodge? Over in the Villas, you can view the Iron Spike room, where two of Walt's cars from his backyard railroad, the Carolwood Pacific, are on display, along with some *great* railroading artifacts.

5) that there was once a "river cruise" at Disney's Animal Kingdom? The boats departed docks at both the front and back of the park. It was supposed to be a one-way trip - if you boarded at the front of the park, you disembarked at the back, and vice-versa. However, guests would stay on the boats for a round-trip, expecting a Jungle Cruise-like experience, and the lines at the docks backed up for sometimes two and a half hours. There were some pretty cool things to see along the way - the dragon shooting fire out of the cave (near Camp Minnie-Mickey, and still visible to this day - and was supposed to be hint of Beastly Kingdomme), exploding geysers...so, due to the crowds, Disney tried to change things up by turning the ride into the "Radio Disney Cruise". Extremely bad guest feedback and reviews resulted in the lines quickly vanishing - and so did the attraction.

[Elias1901]

5) that there was once a "river cruise" at Disney's Animal Kingdom? The boats departed docks at both the front and back of the park. It was supposed to be a one-way trip - if you boarded at the front of the park, you disembarked at the back, and vice-versa. However, guests would stay on the boats for a round-trip, expecting a Jungle Cruise-like experience, and the lines at the docks backed up for sometimes two and a half hours. There were some pretty cool things to see along the way - the dragon shooting fire out of the cave (near Camp Minnie-Mickey, and still visible to this day - and was supposed to be hint of Beastly Kingdomme), exploding geysers...so, due to the crowds, Disney tried to change things up by turning the ride into the "Radio Disney Cruise". Extremely bad guest feedback and reviews resulted in the lines quickly vanishing - and so did the attraction.

I've heard about this. I've been curious about the fire-breathing dragon to this day. You say it is still down there? I've never seen it! Where abouts is it? Is the dragon visible at all?

[Main Street Jim]

I've heard about this. I've been curious about the fire-breathing dragon to this day. You say it is still down there? I've never seen it! Where abouts is it? Is the dragon visible at all?

The "dragon" is really just a flame-thrower "stuck into a cave". The cave is visible from the bridge between the Oasis and Camp Minnie-Mickey, to the right if you're heading into CMM.

[Elias1901]

The "dragon" is really just a flame-thrower "stuck into a cave". The cave is visible from the bridge between the Oasis and Camp Minnie-Mickey, to the right if you're heading into CMM.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GGAg16fJ8n.../dragon_ak.jpg

This is it? Sure doesn't look like much... I assume the fire doesn't billow anymore, correct? Were there sound effects as well?

[Main Street Jim]

That *could* be. Those look like where the geysers were, over near the Harambe bridge. I never got to experience the "flames", as the attraction was closed when we first visited in 2000.

Here's the "dragon-shaped rock" visible from the Camp Minnie-Mickey bridge:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...70981613_n.jpg

Here's my pic of the "geyser rocks":

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...19979958_n.jpg

**EDIT**: AHHHhhhhh...I *did* have a pic of the former "dragon-flame cave". It's just up the river from the dragon-shaped rock, but it is/was still visible from the bridge:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...05869095_n.jpg

And, in addition, found another Web site/page with a story on an Iguanodon animatronic that stood along the water....

Aaaannnd....I *did* manage to find a pic of the cave "in action". I just Googled "Animal Kingdom dragon cave" under Google Images.

To add to all of this, if you YouTube "Discovery River Boats Animal Kingdom", you can see the caves and geysers - but I haven't been able to find a video with the flames...

[Elias1901]

Iguanadon animatronic? Any pictures of that? Was it relocated to DINOSAUR or something?

[Main Street Jim]

I can't post the link, but if you Google "Animal Kingdom dragon cave", it's one of the first few links.

[Elias1901]

Cool, I'll take a peek!