How far can Disney go and keep you coming back?

[TheVBs]

I wish I could say the same. I really do. Maybe we just got lucky with the first trips, or unlucky with the last ones. It never pleased us when we recognized things that were perceived to 'never happen at Disney.' They were shocks for that reason.

What you describe sounds like our first 4 or so family trips. I would've loved nothing more than for the trend to have continued on that path.

These were our last two family trips out of four. We had one in 1999 before having kids. And we'd been as kids.

I really hope your trend doesn't continue! I can imagine how disappointed you must feel after those experiences.

[crltkcagle]

I don't know what they could possibly do to keep my husband away. He's more obsessed than the above average obsessed disney fan! LOL However we have noticed little things here and there that are declining. It wouldn't keep us away because its still magical to our family. We can't sit on a beach and watch Tink fly off the castle. Or backpack through Europe and ride the teacups. I hope that things improve a little and I am thinking that the price increase has something to do with this major fantasyland rehaul that they are doing.

[PopPhan]

I'm disappointed in all the increases...especially the dining plan...it keeps going up and cutting items off...I read a rumor that they will be cutting out the desserts next year. The fireworks buffet has gone up in price three or four time in what, three years...the refillable mugs were under ten dollars to start. TIW Used to be $25 now up to $75. And what's up with charging a premium for all buffets during the summer????

If you check the following thread:
http://www.intercot.com/discussion/s...d.php?t=173663
and check the documentation on the Dining Plan(s) for 2011, you will see that the dessert has NOT been removed, only one of the drinks with a CS breakfast.

As for the rest of your concerns, I hate to say it, but the law of Supply and Demand clearly come into play for these items -- the fireworks buffet is ALWAYS sold out as soon as it opens up; the refillable mugs have become almost mandatory with the cost of individual drinks at the resorts, and they know it; TiW has become a mainstay for APs; and last, the buffets are always big sellers any time of year, but during "summer" months when there are more people looking to eat, they can demand more for them.

Unless, and until, people stop visiting/eating at/staying at Disney properties, this will continue.

What IS ironic is that they KNOW that this is happening, that people are being driven away, otherwise there wouldn't be so many "discounts" being offered throughout the year. The corporate mentality just will not allow them to hold costs to the consumers (visitors) down. Disney corporate should take note of what happened to US automakers -- higher prices for inferior goods drove consumers to lower priced, higher quality foreign automobiles.

[badkitty]

The price increase won't keep me away. I currently have an AP but if I didn't, I still would spend more than one day at the parks during each trip. It's costs $83 for a one day pass at the ski resort I go to and 10 of 14 consecutive days is $610. At WDW, the price goes down with mulitple days at a greater rate. The value to me at WDW is better the longer you stay in comparision to other recreation choices.

[elephant rider]

The price increase won't keep me away. I currently have an AP but if I didn't, I still would spend more than one day at the parks during each trip. It's costs $83 for a one day pass at the ski resort I go to and 10 of 14 consecutive days is $610. At WDW, the price goes down with mulitple days at a greater rate. The value to me at WDW is better the longer you stay in comparision to other recreation choices.

IMO this is key to the discussion. I can see people changing to other destinations for shorter trips due to the increases, but I think its still a good value for a longer stay.

[Ian]

Surprisingly, I come down on the other side of this debate. Taking out of the discussion the fact that the overall experience has declined in quality significantly over the last 5-10 years for a second, I still think a Disney World vacation is a great value.

The price of a one-day pass has people down?? First off, no one buys those. The most popular pass is the five day park hopper and that's gone up to $291, or around $58 per day. And that's for admission to four theme parks.

When I compare that to other entertainment offerings like sporting events or concerts for example it's an unbelieveable bargain! Nowadays you're going to pay $100 minimum even for lousy seats to a concert or sporting event. And that's for what? Three hours of fun tops? You can get around 65 hours of some of the best themed entertainment on the planet for just three times the price of those tickets to the ballgame.

Heck, you go to the Jersey Shore (which is hardly the greatest vacation destination on the planet) and you'll easily drop $4,000 - $5,000 on a week's family vacation. I don't know about all of you, but I routinely spend a week in Disney World for like half that amount.

Now listen ... I totally agree it's hard to stomach all the cuts, cuts, cuts while at the same time dealing with the prices going up, up, up. But in fairness, I think it's more that Disney World has been a comparitive great deal than it is them trying to raise prices to some outrageous level.

Also let's bear in mind that they are currently pouring like a billion dollars into a huge Fantasyland expansion.

[TheVBs]

I fully agree with the two PP's. We plan for 10 day trips to Disney now and there's no way we could spend that amount of time somewhere else for the same amount of money and get as much as we do at Disney.

[BigRedDad]

I think WDW still has a lot to offer and there are so many ways to cut your cost down. I don't go for less than 7-days because it is too cost prohibitive. I also don't buy the Dining Plan because it is a ripoff unless you plan the most expensive meals instead of places you enjoy. We save money by purchasing meals to share. A $9 meal is big enough for my DD or DW to share. That makes the cost less than a McDonald's. Here are our ways to save money on trips:

1. Stay at a Value resort. We do not spend enough time in a room to warrant the cost of more luxurious resorts.
2. Go during a slower season. Lower price for rooms and crowds. I cannot stand crowds.
3. Share meals instead of purchasing one for everybody.
4. Take breakfast foods: bagels, cereals, etc.
5. Bring your own drinks: Soda, alcohol, etc.
6. eBay for pin-trading. We just got 200 pins to trade for just over $100.
7. Tickets: Per day tickets go down drastically the longer you stay. Instead of Park Hoppers, look at the option of purchasing more days. Yes, you may use more than 1-ticket on a day, but the cost is cheaper than the Park Hopper option in many cases.

[PopPhan]

I think WDW still has a lot to offer and there are so many ways to cut your cost down. I don't go for less than 7-days because it is too cost prohibitive. I also don't buy the Dining Plan because it is a ripoff unless you plan the most expensive meals instead of places you enjoy. We save money by purchasing meals to share. A $9 meal is big enough for my DD or DW to share. That makes the cost less than a McDonald's. Here are our ways to save money on trips:

1. Stay at a Value resort. We do not spend enough time in a room to warrant the cost of more luxurious resorts.
2. Go during a slower season. Lower price for rooms and crowds. I cannot stand crowds.
3. Share meals instead of purchasing one for everybody.
4. Take breakfast foods: bagels, cereals, etc.
5. Bring your own drinks: Soda, alcohol, etc.
6. eBay for pin-trading. We just got 200 pins to trade for just over $100.
7. Tickets: Per day tickets go down drastically the longer you stay. Instead of Park Hoppers, look at the option of purchasing more days. Yes, you may use more than 1-ticket on a day, but the cost is cheaper than the Park Hopper option in many cases.

You would have to purchase multiple MYW Base TICKETS to do this as a Base MYW ticket can be used in only one park per day. You cannot use multiple "days" from a base MYW ticket to circumvent purchasing the Park Hopper option.

[Mickey'sGirl]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families. Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line. It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it. Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)! I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

Just some food for thought.

[Tekneek]

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families.

Cool. I think this is the first time I have heard someone express the view that Walt Disney World *should* aspire to be priced so high that it is a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line.

I don't know who you are referring to. I suppose there are people who do that, but I don't know them. As far as "looking for Disney to hand them the magic", isn't that what they are supposed to be doing? Isn't that what the concept was about? Or is "Have a Magical Day" a wish for you to go out and invent your own magic while paying them a good bit of money to do so?

It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it.

I suppose so. Or, they could make it readily apparent by putting it right out in your face and ears. I could've tried to ignore and erase from my mind the incidents I overheard with castmembers on my last trip. Despite it happening on each day and in each park, I could've tried to be a robot and pretend they were not happening. Why should I have to pretend that Disney is living up to a higher standard than they actually are? I should also pretend that Wonders of Life is still open, they haven't delivered poor quality attractions, etc. Yep, that vacation was full of the same high quality Disney attractions that they ever had, with CMs delivering the same high level of service they ever did... What good does delusion do?

Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)!

If you use that gas to generate heat during the winter, it may actually keep you alive. If you use it for your oven, you may cook meals that you enjoy (presumably). Don't sell it too short.

I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

The only way to have avoided the problems I encountered would have been to stay out of the parks. So why was I going there again?

Is it your concept that we should be so blinded by the "once in a lifetime trip" that we aren't concerned about whether Disney is living up to their own historical standard? I suppose that is what they are banking on. I suspect most first timers, based on my own conversations with them, don't know very much about very much going on there. So we should all strive to be naive like the usual first timer in order to improve the magic of the experience? Is that the secret?

[Mickey'sGirl]

Perhaps it is.... Trips were a lot more fun when we weren't plotting every footstep to get to this ADR or to get over to that EMH. Trips were a lot more magical when we didn't know ... or claim to know as the case may be ... so much. That's what these message boards are all about, aren't they? Getting the skinny on the parks etc?

I appreciate your responses, and while I haven't been delusional for many months now, I do think that oftentimes how I choose to respond to things greatly effects my enjoyment of them. When I go in smiling, things tend to go well.

[DizneyRox]

I've talked to a few people that don't go all the time, but have gone maybe every 4-5 years. Most of them feel like Mickey has their hand in their pocket digging for dimes from the second they step on property.

That wasn't what they remember, and they were quite turned off...

So, not even frequent visitors are making these observations.

[Seasonscraps]

I went to the store the other day to pick up some dog food. I have a couple of large dogs, so I get the big 40 lbs bag, it lasts me a few weeks.

When I got to the check-out line, much to my surprise, it was $5 more a bag than what I remember. Oh well, price go up, gas is going up, I can deal with that.

When I got home, I noticed the 40 lbs bag was only 35 lbs. Now I'm mad!

Same thing!

This pretty much sums up my feelings about Disney prices. I don't mind the price increases - you have to expect them but (for me) the value is not there anymore. Disney has become guilty of over promising and under delivering.

Ironically, I find the price of the tickets to be the best value in relation to the costs of all other aspects of a Disney vacation - even a one day ticket. I can eat better for less just outside Disney property. We are splitting our next trip - 3 days at the Caribe Royale in a king room with a load of ammenities for less then it would cost to stay at one of the mods. The main reason I go back is because we bought into DVC in 2002 so our hotel is essentially paid for and DH loves it there.

There are plenty of other places to have a thoroughly enjoyable vacations where I don't feel like someone has a hand in my pocket 24/7.

ETA - it's not a matter of looking for the negative but when it's presented to you in one way or another over several days it gets more difficult to ignore.

[Tekneek]

When I go in smiling, things tend to go well.

Oh, we kept smiling as much as we could. At the end of the day, though, we had to admit that things just weren't up to what we were accustomed to. I don't feel bad for comparing Disney to itself, though, because it doesn't involve any expectations brought in from the outside.

It may still be a great value in terms of a lot of other destinations, but the price increases lead it to not competing as well with the other choices we would make. I suppose it just depends on who/what the competition is. I'm never going to tell people they should not go, or that it is not worth it. I can only speak for myself and relate the experiences and views of my family. Not trying to rally people to take my same position on any of it.

[Tekneek]

I've talked to a few people that don't go all the time, but have gone maybe every 4-5 years. Most of them feel like Mickey has their hand in their pocket digging for dimes from the second they step on property.

That wasn't what they remember, and they were quite turned off...

So, not even frequent visitors are making these observations.

Hah. I have only talked to a few people who have gone once per decade since the opening. That is really the kind of thing they told me as well. While they could appreciate how much more there was to do these days, they said virtually the same thing (maybe even exactly the same thing) about Mickey digging through the pockets. I used to try to argue against their take on it...

[azcavalier]

A few thoughts:

1. If you talk to people who only go once a decade, or every few years....well, people tend to remember things as being better in the past. Apparently, my grandma's biscuits have gotten better every year, even though no one has eaten one since 1972. The good ol' days weren't necessarily that good. In other words, as time passes, those who don't go to Disney very often might remember those first trips as being more wonderful than they really were, because it was new to them. Which brings up my second point...

2. For those of us who are fortunate enough to go fairly often, well, maybe the magic is running out. When my DW and I bought our current home, we really loved it. Now we've been in it for three years, and we notice all of the little quirks and problems with it. This window isn't square with the wall....there's a dip in the floor in the hallway....this stair tread isn't exactly level...etc, etc. We just laugh and say that those part of the house are "the parts the monkeys built". I think that the same can be said of WDW. If you go a lot, then you're going to notice things that you never noticed before. And, you'll tend to think that things are going downhill, when in reality, they've been there the entire time.

3. It could be possible that stuff that surprised you on your last trip or two have happened to other people in the past, and you've now been often enough to where you've seen it all, the good and the bad. I had been to WDW 6 or 7 times before I had a bad experience with a Cast Member. Did that make me think that WDW was going downhill because I met a rude CM? No. I thought, "Wow, that's a rude CM. Someone should set him straight." In the three or four trips since then, not a single problem, and have had wonderful CM encounters. An example of this is politics. I have heard many people complain about how nasty "politics have become", complaining of all the mudslinging and slandering that candidates do. Truth is, there was just as much mudslinging going on in the 1800's during political races. Politics haven't gotten any dirtier. We just have new media to view it on. It's just that they are here and now, and so it's more impactful than memories of past elections can be.

4. I wonder if there are more "rude CM's" during the high times than there are the low times. I would imagine that during those peak seasons, they have a harder time hiring quality CM's. We have *never* gone during a peak season. Maybe that is why we've never had many issues. The CM's that are working when we're there are either more full-timers who have a vested interest in being excellent CM's, or they are college kids on the internship program, who are just stoked to be there.

[Mickey91]

I don't go for less than 7-days because it is too cost prohibitive.

Here again is one thing Disney has priced out. People who may only have a day or two to spend at WDW. It is just too expensive to do it. We made a one day trip in 2004 and it was one of the best days we have ever had at Disney. Maybe because we went specifically to have a fun DAY instead of trying to cram everything into a week of park hopping, ADRs, and stressed nerves. We were heading to another, closer destination and figured we could do a day at Disney for about the same price if not less. Not the case anymore.

Here are our ways to save money on trips

1. Stay at a Value resort. We do not spend enough time in a room to warrant the cost of more luxurious resorts.
2. Go during a slower season. Lower price for rooms and crowds. I cannot stand crowds.
3. Share meals instead of purchasing one for everybody.
4. Take breakfast foods: bagels, cereals, etc.
5. Bring your own drinks: Soda, alcohol, etc.
6. eBay for pin-trading. We just got 200 pins to trade for just over $100.
7. Tickets: Per day tickets go down drastically the longer you stay. Instead of Park Hoppers, look at the option of purchasing more days. Yes, you may use more than 1-ticket on a day, but the cost is cheaper than the Park Hopper option in many cases.

1. Value Resort - we usually stay here. But sometimes we just want to try something a little nicer.

2. Slower Season - Not always possible

3. Share meals - no longer a possibility

4. Bring breakfast - good idea

5. Bring own drinks - cost less but don't you get tired of carrying them around?

6.ebay pin trading - we have done this as well. But just because the pins we received seem very nice, I am still leery of this.

7. You cannot use an eight day base ticket to get into two parks for four days. And, to even purchase another single day ticket is more than adding the park hopper option.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Disney used to be a save up and have that trip of a lifetime experience, now it is common for it to be an annual or semi-annual event for many many many families. Disney has made it too affordable and therefore it is full of people looking for Disney to hand them the magic, give them upgrades, get them to the front of the line. It is my opinion that if you are looking for declining service you are going to find it. Yes prices are going up, but that's part of life ... at least you are having fun at WDW (my gas bill does not give me as much enjoyment)! I am guilty of panning the restaurants at WDW saying that the quality has gone down ... has it, or am I just too familiar with things .... has some of the magic been lost because I am there so darned often that there isn't time to get the magic up to speed in my own mind again?

Just some food for thought.

This may have some basis, but where would Disney be without repeat guests? If no one bought an AP nor visited more than once in a lifetime, they would not still be there. Though there are many first timers every day, the parks could not operate without repeat guests. Therefore I believe it is their responsibility to keep the parks up to standard and train their cms to be courteous and professional. I also don't expect the nickle and diming for reduced service yet increased prices. I understand that prices need to go up to maintain the current expectations. But prices keep going up and items and service and quality keep disappearing. If I didn't go as often, I probably wouldn't notice as much. But since Disney can't survive without repeat guests, they need to keep up the standard for which they were always known.

[BrerGnat]

4. I wonder if there are more "rude CM's" during the high times than there are the low times. I would imagine that during those peak seasons, they have a harder time hiring quality CM's. We have *never* gone during a peak season. Maybe that is why we've never had many issues. The CM's that are working when we're there are either more full-timers who have a vested interest in being excellent CM's, or they are college kids on the internship program, who are just stoked to be there.

I pretty much agree with your entire post, up until this point.

We went during PEAK season this year...the week leading up to Easter, and I cannot tell you how pleasant EVERY CM was. Even the landscapers would smile and wave from their mowers in the mornings!

I really think that you experience "bad CM" behavior when:

1. It's HOT. And HUMID.
2. The GUESTS are behaving "bad" themselves.

These are two very key points. I hardly hear stories about "bad CMs" from trips people take in winter, during value season.

While crowds were astronomical the week we were there this year, the weather was BEAUTIFUL all week. Everyone (guests and CMs) behaved. It was like everyone had taken a happy pill...seriously. I could hardly believe it. I even commented on it in my trip reports.

I think it is easy to be crabby when you're hot and tired. It happens to EVERYONE. I'd challenge anyone who experiences "bad CM' behavior to come back when the weather is more agreeable, and see how agreeable the people as a whole can be as well.

[azcavalier]

I pretty much agree with your entire post, up until this point.

We went during PEAK season this year...the week leading up to Easter, and I cannot tell you how pleasant EVERY CM was. Even the landscapers would smile and wave from their mowers in the mornings!

I really think that you experience "bad CM" behavior when:

1. It's HOT. And HUMID.
2. The GUESTS are behaving "bad" themselves.

These are two very key points. I hardly hear stories about "bad CMs" from trips people take in winter, during value season.

While crowds were astronomical the week we were there this year, the weather was BEAUTIFUL all week. Everyone (guests and CMs) behaved. It was like everyone had taken a happy pill...seriously. I could hardly believe it. I even commented on it in my trip reports.

I think it is easy to be crabby when you're hot and tired. It happens to EVERYONE. I'd challenge anyone who experiences "bad CM' behavior to come back when the weather is more agreeable, and see how agreeable the people as a whole can be as well.

That's a good point. Since we've never been when it's been that hot and humid (though it was pretty bad last October), I can't comment on that. I was just wondering IF there was a correlation between peak times (so more CMs) and non-peak times (so less CMs), not saying that it was so.