Cutting Summer Break NOOOOOOO

[JPL]

Also remember we are the only country that tests and educates every child through high school. Other countries use a more funneled approach. So when they are comparing these results they are looking at other countires honor students with all of student averaged together.

As for a longer school day and year that' will not help. By June I can see it with both students and teachers burn out starts to set in. For those of you have never been in a classroom it's easy to say increase hours but it's extremely draining on teachers and students a like. I think if you want to fix education parents need to be held more accountable and become more involved in the process.

[Jeri]

Many schools are instituting block scheduling, or time cycles. In block scheduling classes are similar to college- Instead of 45 mins every day, you'd have close to two hours every other day. This gives the teacher more time to really get in depth into topics and touch base with each learner. Time cycles are similar... you have all of your classes each day, but one class is longer. Which one it is will switch each day. This is one way to get more learning in within typical school times. ."

This is what my sons middle school has started doing this year. The kids like it alot. They have the normal 7 classes Mon, Tues, Friday and Wed, Thurs the schedule is different with longer classes depending on the day. They only have 3 to 4 classes on those 2 days.
As far as homework goes someone said their kids only have 40 minutes , well I wish my 7th grader only had 40 minutes. He has atleast 1hour and sometimes up to 2 hours a night. Also they jumpped right in to working on the 1st day back and had homework the 1st night. I don't think he could handle more hours in the day. He goes from 7:30 to 2:20 and that is long enough. I will point out that he has been a straight A student every year too.
I think longer days, and/or taking away the summer vacation would burn him out. And I believe would only cause those students who are bearly keeping up or have not a lot of interest to drop out. I think you would see more kids dropping out due to being burned out by such schedules.

[green ranger]

Is this your opinion, or have you worked both scenarios to know for a fact? I'm not trying to be snarky, I truly want to know.

I'm not contradicting your assertion that parental involvement is key. I wholeheartedly agree.

I have not worked both scenarios. I was just talking about my own personal teaching experiences based on 180 days of school. When I heard about this today, I started thinking of students that I had throughout the years that entered my classroom at a low academic level. I had an open door policy where the communication between myself and parents was continually ongoing, but the parents had to be willing to do their part. The students of those parents that jumped on board made huge improvements throughout the school year, compared to those students whose parents didn't become as involved for whatever reason. In my classes, I could tell which students had parents involved in their education and which ones did not. I just don't believe adding another 20 days or so onto the school year is going to make brighter students. It's much more than just the amount of school days. It's outside of the school day that maybe we should be looking at as a society. So I guess my reply is based on experience and opinion.

[thrillme]

I say, to this idea, NO! I'm an 8th grader that works my hardest in school, does all of my assignments, and does 100% into everything I do. ........
Sorry to speak so strongly on this, but I really can't help it.

Please keep "speaking strongly"...We need 8th graders like you...Maybe if all of you and your friends speak up...maybe they'll hear you.

Mor skoolin' doesn't make smarter childrens...AMBITION does!

[sportsguy2315]

As a college student, to me this is another case of our culture's obsession of "Keeping up With the Jones'" in terms of test scores. Sure, other countries such as Japan may have more intense school schedules, but what is best for some may not be best for all.

I work at a science summer day camp and for the past couple years we've had kids come the week after school ended. To say they were zoo animals is a pretty fair comparison. Kids today I find have less of an attention span, and pushing them to their ultimate limits in terms of time in the classroom will cause more problems than it solves. What I do believe will solve the problem is a system they use in most parts of Europe where they figure out if you're ready for college/trade school in 8th grade in a series of tests similar to our ACT/SAT; along with a 1 or 2 year service requirement either helping out the community or country on some level.

[Mickey'sGirl]

*This is another place where schools and teachers can make sure students retain information. Instead of testing on each individual unit and then having to cram for finals, tests should be cumulative, throwing in questions from previous topics as well. "Use it or lose it."

I completely agree with you.

I keep hearing about our schools compared to other countries, but I was just wondering if anyone looked at how much the parents are available and involved in the other countries. Maybe that's the difference.

I don't know. Top performers on a general level are Canada, Finland and New Zealand. Societies very similar to the US. From a personal standpoint, I work full time and commute. My day starts at 5:20am, and I do not get home until dinner time. We have a lot of family stuff to squeeze into those precious two hours each night. We do what we have to do (and have the bags under our eyes to show for it! )

Also remember we are the only country that tests and educates every child through high school.

I disagree. My country educates all the way through to high school too, and it is my understanding that these tests are based on "standardized" tests for all 15 year olds.

The students of those parents that jumped on board made huge improvements throughout the school year, compared to those students whose parents didn't become as involved for whatever reason. In my classes, I could tell which students had parents involved in their education and which ones did not. I just don't believe adding another 20 days or so onto the school year is going to make brighter students.

I think you have a very valid point ... but perhaps that "extra" time in the classroom will provide the adult involvement the child is missing at home? They say it takes a community to raise a child. (Thanks for doing what you do... Teachers ROCK!)

[Tinkerfreak]

I say, to this idea, NO! I'm an 8th grader that works my hardest in school, does all of my assignments, and does 100% into everything I do. This means, with my schoolwork, I'm busy, busy, busy. All 9 periods of the day, 7 hours, thinking about something. Subject, after subject, after subject. It's difficult work for us kids, and frankly, when I come home from school, I'm pooped. I want to rest. But, I can't. Why? Because I have to do about 40 Advanced Math problems, 20 questions for current (Advanced) English novels, along with a whole entire portfolio for math, and having to study for the next extremely difficult Social Studies test. So, what's the extra time in school going to do me? Nothing. It not like they're going to give us the time to study or do homework or anything. Nope. They're just going to use it to pack even more of a load on us. For us kids that work hard in school, this extra time is going to do nothing but give us less time to go home and do our 'geek' homework. Not to mention when I come home I don't have any time to do anything else - well, unless I come onto the computer at 9:00, like I am right now. I manage to somehow fit softball into my schedule, too.

Now, for the opposing point of view, what is this going to do for the people that slack off in school? Nothing. It just gives them more time in school to talk, misbehave, and act childish. It gives them more assignments to not do, and just more time to bug their teachers. As soon as the slackers hear about having longer school days, it's just going to encourage them to skip!

Sorry to speak so strongly on this, but I really can't help it.

I agree with you. My DD's spend hours a night doing homework and then have to study for tests and squeeze in soccer practices and other after school things. They come home from school at 3:00 and are doing something until 10:00 at night. They do not sit in front of the tv, play video games or play on the computer. They are doing homework, studying and reading. I don't think they could handle much more unless they stopped soccer. I would hate to see this because they need that 2 hour practice a week for the exercise. They need more time to play outside and get exercise not less!

[Ian]

As a high school math teacher (I teacher ALL the math classes 9-12 in a small high school), I can say without a doubt, that a longer day and more days would make a difference in the education of American children. Period.

That's a pretty bold statement. What do you base that on? Do you have any facts or statistics to back up what you say or is it just opinion?

If it's just opinion, I'd probably avoid stating it with the " ... period." at the end.

Studies show that American kids, on average, spend about 30 minutes on homework after school.

I don't know what schools that study looked at, but in secondary education in our school system our kids have a mandatory 90 minutes of homework a night.

30 minutes?? I've never even heard of students at the secondary level getting such a small amount of homework. Even back in the Stone Age when I went to high school, we had at least an hour of homework a night.

As a teacher, I could tell you that a longer school year would NOT make a difference.

Just quoted this as an obvious counterpoint to Mammabruski's post. Seems like even teachers aren't united on this topic.

Also remember we are the only country that tests and educates every child through high school. Other countries use a more funneled approach. So when they are comparing these results they are looking at other countires honor students with all of student averaged together.

Right ... very true. We measure and test every student, regardless of their inherent ability. That definitely skews our test results when compared against other nations.

Look, I'm not saying that I know longer school days and years aren't going to help (although I strongly suspect that it is the case). What I'm saying is that this seems like a knee-jerk, overly simplistic solution to a very complex problem that I suspect is being considered just to make it look like we're "doing something."

[Mickey'sGirl]

Right ... very true. We measure and test every student, regardless of their inherent ability. That definitely skews our test results when compared against other nations.

I'm sure we discussed this in the past. All students are included in testing results in Canada. Even my autistic sons. So, your testing results should stand up compared to Canadian testing results.

[JPL]

I disagree. My country educates all the way through to high school too, and it is my understanding that these tests are based on "standardized" tests for all 15 year olds.

Canada does but most European and Asian countries do not. They use a funneled education system and decide who goes beyond a certain point. Overall there are several differences in the way we educate children opposed to other countries some are good and some are not so good. But the main problem I see as a teacher is parental involvement.

[Ian]

I'm sure we discussed this in the past. All students are included in testing results in Canada. Even my autistic sons. So, your testing results should stand up compared to Canadian testing results.

I actually don't know where U.S. students stack up against Canadian students ... I've always heard we lagged behind the Asian nations, but I haven't seen comparisons between us and other North American countries.

Although based on my understanding of where the U.S. education system ranks globally, I'd bet we rank unfavorably against Canada, too.

[VWL Mom]

I say, to this idea, NO! I'm an 8th grader that works my hardest in school, does all of my assignments, and does 100% into everything I do. This means, with my schoolwork, I'm busy, busy, busy. All 9 periods of the day, 7 hours, thinking about something. Subject, after subject, after subject. It's difficult work for us kids, and frankly, when I come home from school, I'm pooped. I want to rest. But, I can't. Why? Because I have to do about 40 Advanced Math problems, 20 questions for current (Advanced) English novels, along with a whole entire portfolio for math, and having to study for the next extremely difficult Social Studies test. So, what's the extra time in school going to do me? Nothing. It not like they're going to give us the time to study or do homework or anything. Nope. They're just going to use it to pack even more of a load on us. For us kids that work hard in school, this extra time is going to do nothing but give us less time to go home and do our 'geek' homework. Not to mention when I come home I don't have any time to do anything else - well, unless I come onto the computer at 9:00, like I am right now. I manage to somehow fit softball into my schedule, too.

Now, for the opposing point of view, what is this going to do for the people that slack off in school? Nothing. It just gives them more time in school to talk, misbehave, and act childish. It gives them more assignments to not do, and just more time to bug their teachers. As soon as the slackers hear about having longer school days, it's just going to encourage them to skip!

Sorry to speak so strongly on this, but I really can't help it.

Couldn't have said it better myself, nice job

After reading these posts it becomes very clear that the educational standards are not equal across the board. IMHO for those that are entering the 9th grade with no math skills or spending 10 weeks reviewing the accountability starts in the individual districts. Let's start using the tax dollars wisely and help out those districts in need of funding so that they can produce well rounded individuals.

Randomly expanding days and school years nationwide isn't going to help ailing districts and IMO seems like a back door approach to tax funded daycare.

Just my

[oliver&bianca]

Do I care whether children in Japan are more superior than my child??????? NO I DO NOT!!!

I am like a lot of the other posters in that I do not like the idea of the government having a sense of ownership of my child.

Also, I live in a very rural area and children already have long days due to the bus situation. My son's friend is on the bus for approximately an hour each way (On the bus at 7am and not off until 4:30pm).Add more school time to this plus homework. How is that healthy for a child? Where does family time get put in?

c r a z y !

[Ian]

I am like a lot of the other posters in that I do not like the idea of the government having a sense of ownership of my child.

Precisely why I'm fundamentally opposed to government running the school system in the first place.

As parents, we should have choices as to where and how our kids are educated. It shouldn't be this Big Brother approach where it's a "one size fits all" mentality.

If I want my kids to be more well-rounded and have more time to spend with friends and family, that should be my choice. If I want my kids to be hyper-educated, that should also be my choice. It shouldn't be mandated by faceless people with questionable educational credentials.

[Hammer]

Do I care whether children in Japan are more superior than my child??????? NO I DO NOT!!!

People will care when jobs go to people from Japan because a company wants to hire the best trained/education person for the job. It is already happening and will only grow.

[d_m_n_n]

And just where are they going to come up with the money to pay for this? The states are already cutting the financing for schools. Most districts are not getting by now...this just frustrates me!

I think this administration (especially, but let's admit...all government has a habit of spending money it doesn't have) has shown it doesn't matter if we can afford it or not...

[d_m_n_n]

If I want my kids to be more well-rounded and have more time to spend with friends and family, that should be my choice. If I want my kids to be hyper-educated, that should also be my choice. It shouldn't be mandated by faceless people with questionable educational credentials.

DING DING DING!!! I want my children to be more well-rounded, so what do I do? I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT!!! If I want them to learn something more than what they are learning in school...I TEACH IT!

[Ian]

DING DING DING!!! I want my children to be more well-rounded, so what do I do? I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT!!! If I want them to learn something more than what they are learning in school...I TEACH IT!

Right or you facilitate them being taught it by someone else.

For example, I think it's ridiculous that school tax dollars are used to teach kids music and art. If my kids want to play a musical instrument or learn to paint, I'll send them to a music teacher or an art school. If they don't, then why should I pay for someone else's kid to learn to play the flute or paint posies???

[Melanie]

People will care when jobs go to people from Japan because a company wants to hire the best trained/education person for the job. It is already happening and will only grow.

Exactly.

[Mammabruski]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammabruski:
As a high school math teacher (I teacher ALL the math classes 9-12 in a small high school), I can say without a doubt, that a longer day and more days would make a difference in the education of American children. Period.

Posted by Ian:
That's a pretty bold statement. What do you base that on? Do you have any facts or statistics to back up what you say or is it just opinion?

If it's just opinion, I'd probably avoid stating it with the " ... period." at the end.

I have two first hand situations where more time has greatly improved the performance and educational well being of my students. The first school I taught at when I moved to Colorado was on "Academic Alert" this meant they were being watched due to very low test scores, specifically in math and language arts (I know, test scores aren't everything, that's a whole other debate) This school which was grades 8-12 with about 900 students, and was on a block (90 minute class periods) decided to have 8th graders take math and language arts everyday, all year for 90 minutes instead of 90 minutes every other day. So I taught my 8th graders (ranging from remedial to advanced) 90 minutes every day. What progress we made. Not only could we address the holes in their math education, we could, in detail and without being rushed meet the standards set by the state. This extra time was amazing.

The second situation is from my current school (the small high school where I teach all the classes). Again there were some issues in math, again culminating in the 8th grade, so the school district added a second math class that they attended every other day. It once more addressed the holes in their learning and allowed critical topics to be addressed in more detail.

In both situations the improvement in the students was marked. It showed in their scores, in their confidence and in their comprehension of mathematics. It also allowed the students to have almost no homework, as they had extra time in school to perfect their skills. Currently with my 9-12th graders I do give at least 30 minutes of homework per night, but they only have 50 minutes in class per day.

As for research, as an individual with a degree in mathematics, I can say that you will find studies that agree that a longer day and more days make a difference and studies that say they don't. Both will have statistics backing them up. Statistics can be skewed to favor pretty much any conclusion, so my personal experience is what I based my earlier statement on.

Anyways, I stand behind my statement that more days and longer hours will make a difference in the education of American students. Period.