How do DVC member deal with this, or is it just Larry?

[d_m_n_n]

I sent an email to DVC earlier saying that DH and I were very interested in joining in December, but were hesitant when we hear how members are sometimes treated as second-class visitors (in this instance it was not being able to do ADR's online). Well, I received my reply yesterday...

"Thank you for contacting Member Services.

For security purposes, we require your Name, Membership Number, address
and phone number listed on your Membership to answer your email request.


In the future if you do not want to include all this information, please
contact us through our DISNEY VACATION CLUB Members-only site:
www.dvcmember.com. Since this is a secured site, some of the required
information will automatically be included for us to respond to your
email.

At the main page, you will be required to log in. Once inside the site,
you may select "Contact Us" from the tool bar on the home page, and then
"Contact Member Services." If you do not have the Vacation Club ID and
pin that was sent to you in the mail, you will need to contact Member
Services for further assistance at 800-800-9800 or 407-566-3800.
Regrettably, this information is not able to be sent through email.

Sincerely,

Larry

Member Services | Online Communications
Disney Vacation Club"

So, if Larry had read my email he would see that I was NOT YET a member, just staying on borrowed points. Therefore, how can I have a membership number and phone #, or be able to log-in to member services? Is this the type of service you all receive all the time, or was I just lucky? Eeesh!

[Ian]

No, that's pretty much it.

Larry read "the manual" and did what it told him to do. Anything additional would have required some actual thought and, well, for $8.25 an hour you don't get a whole lot of thinking going on.

[ibelieveindisneymagic]

Larry is a bit of a dope, but I find this A LOT when you email a company for service.

They don't train people to think, just to read the page from the manual. I'd assume in this case, the first page says you need the member information, so good old Larry stopped there and asked for the info.

Geesh!

[DVC Mike]

Member Services is paid for by the dues of DVC members, and thus they should be focused on responding to DVC members. I wouldn't want them to spend time responding to non-members, as that is the job of DVD, the marketing arm, which my dues don't cover.

[DVC Mike]

we hear how members are sometimes treated as second-class visitors (in this instance it was not being able to do ADR's online).

I don't think DVC members are treated as second-class visitors at all. The issue with ADRs was a short-term bug that has since been addressed.

[DizneyRox]

Well, once you provide your member information, they are usually pretty helpful. You need to get a hold of your guide (or the person who you did the tour with).

I agree with Mike, if my dues go up because they have to start dealing with non member issues, I would take issue with that.

[Ian]

Okay ... but guys ... seriously ... is that really the response you'd like to see from Disney to anyone??? Member or otherwise??

It's painfully clear that all "Larry" did was see that there was no member info in that email and respond back with some canned message. Which is stupid because the OP clearly says right in there that they aren't a member!!!

I'd have been fine if "Larry" wrote back and said, "Hey, thanks for reaching out to us. We're really hoping you decide to join and take advantage of all the great opportunities DVC has to offer. Since you have not yet decided to become a member of the Disney Vacation Club family, we suggest you contact "X", who is your DVC Sales Guide (or, alternatively, if they don't have a guide yet something that tells them how to get one!).

But that was a ridiculous response. Personally, I'd rather have DVC Member Services not providing lousy service to anyone ... member or otherwise.

Ultimately, if it drives people off from joining, it's going to cost you more in the long run anyway.

[VWL Mom]

Okay ... but guys ... seriously ... is that really the response you'd like to see from Disney to anyone??? Member or otherwise??

It's painfully clear that all "Larry" did was see that there was no member info in that email and respond back with some canned message. Which is stupid because the OP clearly says right in there that they aren't a member!!!

I'd have been fine if "Larry" wrote back and said, "Hey, thanks for reaching out to us. We're really hoping you decide to join and take advantage of all the great opportunities DVC has to offer. Since you have not yet decided to become a member of the Disney Vacation Club family, we suggest you contact "X", who is your DVC Sales Guide (or, alternatively, if they don't have a guide yet something that tells them how to get one!).

But that was a ridiculous response. Personally, I'd rather have DVC Member Services not providing lousy service to anyone ... member or otherwise.

Ultimately, if it drives people off from joining, it's going to cost you more in the long run anyway.

I agree. Larry could have forwarded it to the appropriate party and advised the op that he did all in under 5 minutes.

[DizneyRox]

Okay ... but guys ... seriously ... is that really the response you'd like to see from Disney to anyone??? Member or otherwise??

I guess my plan is working. You see, I don't have high expectations of Disney anymore, that way I'm not disappointed as much. This response is pretty much what I expected.

Service within the DVC resorts leaves a lot to be desired. I was just handed back and forth between a couple of departments myself, each one claiming it was the other's fault, nobody actually trying to fix the problem, only pointing the finger at the other. Sadly, I see this in my daily job as well, we spend more time pointing fingers than it would take to actually fix the problem. That's corporate America! Happy 4th!

[Ian]

Well yeah ... I mean I agree. I don't expect any more out of them either.

Which was sort of what the OP was asking in the first place, was it not?

[Hammer]

Member Services is paid for by the dues of DVC members, and thus they should be focused on responding to DVC members. I wouldn't want them to spend time responding to non-members, as that is the job of DVD, the marketing arm, which my dues don't cover.

Mike, the response which was given was substandard. A message much like what Ian posted would have been more appropriate. Still a canned response, but the tone is far more inviting.

I don't think DVC members are treated as second-class visitors at all. The issue with ADRs was a short-term bug that has since been addressed.

That "short term bug" was live for over 2 weeks and the system should never have gone live with a known bug like that. I test software for a living and Disney's IT response to it was not good. When bugs like that are found, the product is recalled (or in this case, shut down) until the issue is fixed. The fact that they did not create a workaround for DVC members (or people who booked with travel agents) and left it as it was does treat us like we were second class in that DVC members lost an hour of time in making ADRs over other reservations.

[DVC Mike]

Mike, the response which was given was substandard. A message much like what Ian posted would have been more appropriate. Still a canned response, but the tone is far more inviting.

Member Services exists to serve DVC Members, and not the general public.

That "short term bug" was live for over 2 weeks and the system should never have gone live with a known bug like that. I test software for a living and Disney's IT response to it was not good. When bugs like that are found, the product is recalled (or in this case, shut down) until the issue is fixed. The fact that they did not create a workaround for DVC members (or people who booked with travel agents) and left it as it was does treat us like we were second class in that DVC members lost an hour of time in making ADRs over other reservations.

Are you suggesting that the WDW Resort should have pulled their online ADR program just because there was a software bug that prevented DVC members from taking advantage of 90+10 booking? Imagine the outrage from the general public if they did that. Disney reacted quickly to fix the bug, and there already was a workaround in place - calling WDW-DINE.

If you test software for a living, you know the regression testing that must take place and there never is a quick fix that is risk free. I think Disney responded appropriately to the issue.

[Hammer]

Member Services exists to serve DVC Members, and not the general public.

And if DVC takes to portraying that sort of attitude, they are going to turn people off to DVC because of it, much like the OP seems to feel.

Are you suggesting that the WDW Resort should have pulled their online ADR program just because there was a software bug that prevented DVC members from taking advantage of 90+10 booking? Imagine the outrage from the general public if they did that. Disney reacted quickly to fix the bug, and there already was a workaround in place - calling WDW-DINE.

If you test software for a living, you know the regression testing that must take place and there never is a quick fix that is risk free. I think Disney responded appropriately to the issue.

What I'm suggesting is that they should have better planned the roll out of this project. As I do lead test projects for a large corporation (comparable in size to Disney-US), I am quite aware of regression testing as one of my duties is to create regression test suites which are then approved by a variety of stakeholders (lead developers, program managers, etc.). One of the basic tests that should have been in the test suite is to make sure that 90 +10 worked for all types of reservations (actually, you should have a test case for each type of reservation working for 90+10). As 2 types of reservations would have failed this test, a critical bug would have been opened and there would have been developers and testers working long hours until a suitable fix could be created. Of course, some things will be missed as no one is perfect, but this was a big defect which prevented 2 types of reservations to use the on-line system to make 90+10 and putting them at a disadvantage, much like someone who stays off site.

[Ian]

I've developed software for 15 years and in no environment in which I worked would a bug that froze out a company's most loyal customer base be released to production. The deployment would get delayed because that bug, by any definition, is a "showstopper."

I couldn't possibly disagree more that Disney's response was, in any way, acceptable. In fact, like most of their incredibly sub-standard IT related endeavors, it was near horrific.

[DVC Mike]

What I'm suggesting is that they should have better planned the roll out of this project.

I agree that Walt Disney World failed to perform adequate testing and didn't discover this bug until they went live. That's more a reflection of Disney's poor IT skills than intentionally treating DVC members as "second class" guests, as some posts have been trying to portray.

I've developed software for 15 years and in no environment in which I worked would a bug that froze out a company's most loyal customer base be released to production. The deployment would get delayed because that bug, by any definition, is a "showstopper."

I couldn't possibly disagree more that Disney's response was, in any way, acceptable. In fact, like most of their incredibly sub-standard IT related endeavors, it was near horrific.

Yes, I have been in the software development space for over 30 years myself. Are you saying that the bug was detected and Disney decided to go ahead with the deployment regardless? Or do you think it is more likely that Disney failed to adequately test their new system? Based upon Disney's history of web development, I think the latter is more likely.

If so, I believe their response was acceptable. If you feel it was "horrific", would you feel it would have been better for them to pull the online ADR system from the public for a few weeks until they resolved this bug? I don't think that would have been justified at all. DVC Members could still call WDW-DINE and make 90+10 reservations, or still do 90-day or less reservations online.

[d_m_n_n]

I'd have been fine if "Larry" wrote back and said, "Hey, thanks for reaching out to us. We're really hoping you decide to join and take advantage of all the great opportunities DVC has to offer. Since you have not yet decided to become a member of the Disney Vacation Club family, we suggest you contact "X", who is your DVC Sales Guide (or, alternatively, if they don't have a guide yet something that tells them how to get one!).


Ultimately, if it drives people off from joining, it's going to cost you more in the long run anyway.

This reply would have led me in the right direction and eased some of the concerns I have been having by at least offering to help. I am not trying to take time or energy away from actual members, but I did not know who else to voice my concerns/disappointment with what is a pretty substantial investment.

[Ian]

Yes, I have been in the software development space for over 30 years myself. Are you saying that the bug was detected and Disney decided to go ahead with the deployment regardless? Or do you think it is more likely that Disney failed to adequately test their new system? Based upon Disney's history of web development, I think the latter is more likely.

If so, I believe their response was acceptable. If you feel it was "horrific", would you feel it would have been better for them to pull the online ADR system from the public for a few weeks until they resolved this bug? I don't think that would have been justified at all. DVC Members could still call WDW-DINE and make 90+10 reservations, or still do 90-day or less reservations online.

Either way it's completely absurd!!! If you missed a bug of this magnitude in testing, you're entire test protocol is a total fraud!! This is simple, basic functionality testing that should not possibly get missed.

Honestly ... trying to make excuses for any of this is borderline ridiculous. For a huge, multi-billion dollar corporation that's (allegedly, at least) working in the the guest services space the entire thing from top to bottom was unacceptable.

Now, you could definitely make a legitimate case that it's not a Disney-specific thing and that this level of poor service has become endemic in the corporate world today. That I'd probably agree with totally.

But then again, no other corporation that I know of (again, allegedly) prides itself on providing customer service to the level that Disney sells.

[DVC Mike]

Either way it's completely absurd!!! If you missed a bug of this magnitude in testing, you're entire test protocol is a total fraud!! This is simple, basic functionality testing that should not possibly get missed.

Honestly ... trying to make excuses for any of this is borderline ridiculous.

I am not trying to make any excuses for the WDW Resort web site. As I said above, I agree that Walt Disney World failed to perform adequate testing and how that is more a reflection of Disney's poor IT skills than intentionally treating DVC members as "second class" guests, which is what the original poster implied. That is what I take issue with.

"completely absurd", "total fraud", "ridiculous" - You seem pretty upset by this issue. Have you contacted WDW Resort to complain?

[Ian]

"completely absurd", "total fraud", "ridiculous" - You seem pretty upset by this issue. Have you contacted WDW Resort to complain?

No, because I have no standing to complain. I wasn't personally affected. However, that certainly doesn't mean I can't be outraged by yet again another example of poor performance by Disney from top to bottom.

Here's the way I look at it ... every step that Disney takes that in any way diminishes the perception and/or standing of DVC is a step that devalues my ownership interest.

ALL DVC owners should be concerned any time Disney puts less than their best foot forward, not only to existing members but to potential future members as well.

[Hammer]

No, because I have no standing to complain. I wasn't personally affected. However, that certainly doesn't mean I can't be outraged by yet again another example of poor performance by Disney from top to bottom.

Here's the way I look at it ... every step that Disney takes that in any way diminishes the perception and/or standing of DVC is a step that devalues my ownership interest.

ALL DVC owners should be concerned any time Disney puts less than their best foot forward, not only to existing members but to potential future members as well.

I was affected by the ADR problem and I have complained to member services and will be sending off a letter to Jim Lewis shortly.

It's true; every contact made should be seen as an opportunity to add DVC members.