Improvements vs Cutbacks: Commentary & Discussion of Current Disney Management

[Figment!]

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[lockedoutlogic]

It just aggrivates me to no end that they sit on their thumbs instead of using "downtimes" to do real reinvestment and improvement in the parks and resorts....

I mean....it's not like they place isn't still raking in billions.....and it's not like construction and material costs are at their lowest points....and it's not like the impact on the operations is minimal with smaller crowds....

what do i know?

[Ian]

It just aggrivates me to no end that they sit on their thumbs instead of using "downtimes" to do real reinvestment and improvement in the parks and resorts....

I mean....it's not like they place isn't still raking in billions.....and it's not like construction and material costs are at their lowest points....and it's not like the impact on the operations is minimal with smaller crowds....

what do i know?

Corporate America has become insanely risk averse when it comes to spending money. If you can't trace a clear relationship between the expense the ROI forget it ... the money won't be spent.

You can debate endlessly whether it's right, wrong, indifferent ... whether it's because the execs want to line their pockets at the expense of everything else ... whether it's the way Wall Street looks at company balance sheets, or whatever.

But the bottom line is that Disney follows the same model that all of Corporate America follows without stoping to think that they're not in the same business as a bank or a brokerage house or even a retail chain.

They sell experiences and if they continually cut back and cheapen the experience, eventually people will stop buying their product.

[cgriff]

Lockedout, c'mon, stop agitating.

There is quite a bit of reinvestment and/or improvements going on in the parks. Read the Tidbits sticky at the top of this board for starters, plus you've got your Space Mountain refurb, new construction in Tomorrowland (new stage show?), new construction at DTD (hot air balloon ride?), new restaurants (Kouzinne), new resorts (4 Seasons/Western Way/Pop expansion)... These are just the things off the top of my head... Seems to me that there is quite a bit of reinvestment/improvement projects going on, considering the current economic clime.

[Ian]

Lockedout, c'mon, stop agitating.

There is quite a bit of reinvestment and/or improvements going on in the parks. Read the Tidbits sticky at the top of this board for starters, plus you've got your Space Mountain refurb, new construction in Tomorrowland (new stage show?), new construction at DTD (hot air balloon ride?), new restaurants (Kouzinne), new resorts (4 Seasons/Western Way/Pop expansion)... These are just the things off the top of my head... Seems to me that there is quite a bit of reinvestment/improvement projects going on, considering the current economic clime.

Mmmmmmmm ... gonna have to beg to differ here ...

Right out of the gate, you cannot count the new restaurants or the new resorts in the mix because none of those are Disney projects. They're all 3rd party, revenue generating projects for Disney, not capital expenditures for them. And the Pop expansion is just a rumor ... nothing going on there yet.

As far as the other three you mention ... really?? You're giving them credit for a hot air balloon ride?? My local zoo has had one of those for decades.

The Space Mountain refurb had to be done because the ride was falling apart. The new stage show in Tomorrowland is about the only thing I'd say counts as a "new attraction" and, quite honestly, it sounds about as weak as they come.

I agree that people need to temper their negativity at times, but honestly I don't think this is one of those times. All those examples you gave are more supportive of the opposite side of the argument, IMO.

It's an example of just how bad things have gotten that the company who once brought you attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion has fallen so far that they now try to sell us a hot air balloon ride as an attraction.

[lockedoutlogic]

As far as the other three you mention ... really?? You're giving them credit for a hot air balloon ride?? My local zoo has had one of those for decades.

The Channel 6 zoo balloon? I love that.....nothing like a birds eye view of the poorly constucted Schuyk and rows house for miles...

[GothMickey]

Lockedout, c'mon, stop agitating.

There is quite a bit of reinvestment and/or improvements going on in the parks. Read the Tidbits sticky at the top of this board for starters, plus you've got your Space Mountain refurb, new construction in Tomorrowland (new stage show?), new construction at DTD (hot air balloon ride?), new restaurants (Kouzinne), new resorts (4 Seasons/Western Way/Pop expansion)... These are just the things off the top of my head... Seems to me that there is quite a bit of reinvestment/improvement projects going on, considering the current economic clime.

This is exactly the reason why DIsney does NOTHING innovative anymore. If a hot air balloon carnival/zoo ride thrills people, then this is the same cheap stuff we will continue to get from this management team in Orlando.

Do you know what is planned for Space Mountain now as compared to what we WOULD have gotten? A world of difference. This Space Mountain refurb has been slashed to half of what was planned by WDI.

We need to hit Disney where it hurts: THEIR POCKETS!!! We, as regulars, need to let them know we refuse to step foot into their fast approaching stale parks. We need to write, call, email management, especially Iger to let him know Crofton, Holmes, and Rasulo have ruined the parks, not helped. We need to let management know we are not going to spend out money to support their leack of imagination decisions. We need to let them know we will go elsewhere. Cancel your vacations. Don't renew your annual passes, Go to Universal, Sea World, Busch Gardens. Don't eat on Disney property. Stop buying their cheap merchandise. They will eventually get the message!!!!

[cgriff]

Saying that you don't like the improvements that Disney is making to their parks is one thing (although, since you haven't yet ridden the new ride, seen the new stage show, eaten at the new restaurant, don't be angry with us if we dismiss your thoughts about it!). But you cannot claim that Disney is not doing any reinvestment in park improvements, because you'd just be demonstrably wrong on that count.

The circular argument that that Space Mountain is need of refurbishment, but then admonishing Disney management for refurbishing it, makes no sense.

Oh, and DCA should count as a huge reinvestment.

[lockedoutlogic]

Saying that you don't like the improvements that Disney is making to their parks is one thing (although, since you haven't yet ridden the new ride, seen the new stage show, eaten at the new restaurant, don't be angry with us if we dismiss your thoughts about it!). But you cannot claim that Disney is not doing any reinvestment in park improvements, because you'd just be demonstrably wrong on that count.

The circular argument that that Space Mountain is need of refurbishment, but then admonishing Disney management for refurbishing it, makes no sense.

Oh, and DCA should count as a huge reinvestment.

no offense....but Ian's post from above covered it....

Third party development does not represent a committment to reinvestment on the part of Disney....

it's actually a cheap way of getting money with few strings attached....


Disney has committed to nothing of significance for WDW for the forseeable future.....nothing

Third party hotels, restaurants, and merchandise are not what we're talking about.....

Animal Kingdom is still far short of what it needs to be a 75 dollar ticket....and nothing is in the works....and everest is now 3 years old....it needs more

MGM/Studios is the same....it needs expansion to become a true disney park experience.....and it has never gotten it....now only probably 2/3 of the way to completion....

EPCOT is still in the middle of a 15 year "rehab" were i'm not quite sure who's minding the store....this thing is going on in perpetuity....

Disney has shown no committment of late to actually adding or strengthening the parks....and this is after 5 years where they packed the place to the gills and reaped huge profits....

IT might be acceptible for many....it is not to me....

This is another form of bad customer service....when you drill repeat business into everything that a customer is presented with...but make no effort to provide a reason for all the repeat business....

I still love it in WDW.....that's not gonna change....but that doesn't mean i will not point out where the errors lie...

[GothMickey]

no offense....but Ian's post from above covered it....

Third party development does not represent a committment to reinvestment on the part of Disney....

it's actually a cheap way of getting money with few strings attached....


Disney has committed to nothing of significance for WDW for the forseeable future.....nothing

Third party hotels, restaurants, and merchandise are not what we're talking about.....

Animal Kingdom is still far short of what it needs to be a 75 dollar ticket....and nothing is in the works....and everest is now 3 years old....it needs more

MGM/Studios is the same....it needs expansion to become a true disney park experience.....and it has never gotten it....now only probably 2/3 of the way to completion....

EPCOT is still in the middle of a 15 year "rehab" were i'm not quite sure who's minding the store....this thing is going on in perpetuity....

Disney has shown no committment of late to actually adding or strengthening the parks....and this is after 5 years where they packed the place to the gills and reaped huge profits....

IT might be acceptible for many....it is not to me....

This is another form of bad customer service....when you drill repeat business into everything that a customer is presented with...but make no effort to provide a reason for all the repeat business....

I still love it in WDW.....that's not gonna change....but that doesn't mean i will not point out where the errors lie...

Thank you and great post. The Little Mermaid ride in MK no longer in the mix, and may never come back. Star Tours 2 is all but ready to go. However, Teasm Orlando has put the kabosh on it. Want to know why? THEY WANT A CHEAPER VERSION!!!! They have put a delay on the Monsters Inc Roller Coaster, blaming lack of sponsorship. The Yeti in Everest no longer is put in A mode cause it is broken. Has been in B mode for the better part of a year, as I understand it. There were talks of replacing the AA altogether with a LCD screen, CGI yeti. The effects on Everest don't even work.

The managemt team in Orlando has a if it is broke, don't fix it mentality. They simply shut it off. They think people won't notice. People do.

[GothMickey]

Saying that you don't like the improvements that Disney is making to their parks is one thing (although, since you haven't yet ridden the new ride, seen the new stage show, eaten at the new restaurant, don't be angry with us if we dismiss your thoughts about it!). But you cannot claim that Disney is not doing any reinvestment in park improvements, because you'd just be demonstrably wrong on that count.

The circular argument that that Space Mountain is need of refurbishment, but then admonishing Disney management for refurbishing it, makes no sense.

Oh, and DCA should count as a huge reinvestment.

Space Mountain is in need of a refurbishment, and I am glad they are doing something. But, we could have gotten so much more. Again, cheapening the refurb is why. They are working on the roof, enclosing the queue. We are NOT getting on board audio like originally planned. We are not getting new track like originally planned. We are getting touch ups on the track. We are getting touch ups on the support structure. You know how old that support structure is, right? Common sense should tell them remove it and put in a stronger support. However, that would have cost MORE money. Phil Holmes will NEVER sepnd MORE money.

Please don't use a dance party in the middle of Tomorrowland as a great addition either. It isn't. It is going to be a tacky addition in a really bad location.

Do you think knocking down the Galaxy Palace Theater for more management parking was a great investment? More prime real estate gone for nothing. Let's see if they really decide to ever build that major E ticket attraction there.

The reason I am bring up the management's lack of creativity and imagination is not because I hate Disney. I love Disney. However, we, the fans, the regulars, the AP holders, DVC members, need to speak up and let them know we are not going to tolerate pathetic excuses for refurbishments, pathetic excuses for new entertainment, cheap metchandise, cheap additions, taking away entertainment yet increasing prices. We have to let them know that enough is enough and we aren't going to take it anymore. Disney no longer has the guts to be leaders in the industry. They no longer have the guts to be on the cutting edge.

I pray that Universal's attendace increases 10 fold once Harry Potter opens. I pray Disney's attendance DROPS. Maybe that would finally wake them up. But, I doubt it, as long as people are satisfied with half-hearted refurbs, updated painting of buildings, closing down of guest favorites, and the continued addition of carnival rides.

[Imagineer1981]

I can tell from the posts that everyone is heated, and thats good, we are passionate people about Disney or we wouldn't be on this site, and we want only for Disney to succeed.

That being said, by boycotting Disney, by not going, by not buying the merchandise, all you are doing is hurting Disney in the long run. They need repeat guests to stay afloat. By trying to financially hurt them, you will be basically leading to more cutbacks, more cheap effects, more broken rides, and a worse guest experience. There is no reason to invest big chunks of money in something that is not showing the returns in the Disney execs minds which is totally the opposite of what the founder would have thought.

I understand the flip side, that by boycotting maybe Disney will get the idea that we are furious about the cheap fixes, bad attraction replacements, and general lack of enthusiasm on the executive end of the company, but I don't think its going to sink in. I don't think its going to make as big of an impact, they'll just chaulk it up to the economy as a catch-all

[jrpersinger]

Ian, LockedoutLogic and GothMickey from me!

I am so glad to read that I am not the only one who is becoming increasingly unhappy with the way things are heading.

I want Fantasmic back full time, bring back 4 For a Dollar, bring the charcters back at LTT (throw Mickey in with them) and DON'T MESS WITH WISHES!

[GothMickey]

I can tell from the posts that everyone is heated, and thats good, we are passionate people about Disney or we wouldn't be on this site, and we want only for Disney to succeed.

That being said, by boycotting Disney, by not going, by not buying the merchandise, all you are doing is hurting Disney in the long run. They need repeat guests to stay afloat. By trying to financially hurt them, you will be basically leading to more cutbacks, more cheap effects, more broken rides, and a worse guest experience. There is no reason to invest big chunks of money in something that is not showing the returns in the Disney execs minds which is totally the opposite of what the founder would have thought.

I understand the flip side, that by boycotting maybe Disney will get the idea that we are furious about the cheap fixes, bad attraction replacements, and general lack of enthusiasm on the executive end of the company, but I don't think its going to sink in. I don't think its going to make as big of an impact, they'll just chaulk it up to the economy as a catch-all

Continuing to go to Disney, continuing to give they your hard earned money, is a vote in FAVOR of getting less for my money. This is what is wrong with WDW management today. We need to get out of this: IF WE DON'T GO TO DISNEY IT WILL HURT THEM attitude. Hitting Disney in the pockets will get their attention. COntinuing to give them your money for cheap updates and pathetic additions will continue to lead to the dumbing down and Walmarting of WDW.

Orlando's management thinks that people will continue to go because "we are Disney and gosh darn it, people love us." This is why they have not added anything of substance. We got EE three years ago. Half of the ride effects do not work. And the Yeti, as I mentioned before, has been broke for more than a year and WILL NOT be fixed any time soon. We will get a CGI yeti on a LCD screen before they fix their multi-million dollar broken toy.

And again, Star Tours 2.0 should be the main example of how terrible Orlando management is. They are holding up Disneyland and WDW getting a new Star Tours. They are being cheap, as usual.

They have to get the idea. They have to be shown that we are not going to tolerate it anymore. How can we get that point across? We have to stop going. We have voice our concerns loud and clear. They may hear our voices and read our letters but they will notice more when their bottom falls and money is lost.

BY the way, tell me something. Would you be willing to pay $100 a day (prices will be sooner than you think) only to see a CGI image of Stitch daning on a LCD screen? How about spending $100 bucks a day for rides that are 25 years old with no refurbishment in site? Or for rides that don't have all or any effects working? Team Disney Orlando is betting you would. This is why we are getting nothing.

[GothMickey]

Ian, LockedoutLogic and GothMickey from me!

I am so glad to read that I am not the only one who is becoming increasingly unhappy with the way things are heading.

I want Fantasmic back full time, bring back 4 For a Dollar, bring the charcters back at LTT (throw Mickey in with them) and DON'T MESS WITH WISHES!

Want to see 4 For A Dollar? Go to SeaWorld. They are now performing there.

Again, let Disney know your displeasure. Let them know their surveys are a LIE. It is time we stand up to this pathetic leadership in WDW.

[BMan62]

They have to get the idea. They have to be shown that we are not going to tolerate it anymore. How can we get that point across? We have to stop going. We have voice our concerns loud and clear. They may hear our voices and read our letters but they will notice more when their bottom falls and money is lost.

Unfortunately, this is not a valid option. By not going you are taking more money out of their coffers and giving them more reason to cut back.

Conversely, by continuing as if nothing is wrong, they still get their pockets full and think they can keep cutting and stuffing more and more into their own pockets.

A real "Catch-22" here.

A real possibility is to go on every fan site you can, create petitions for/against policies and current procedures and get them to the Disney BoD. Not that this would do any good, mind you, but it would be a concerted effort to open their eyes to the displeasure numerous 'regular' visitors are feeling right now.

[cgriff]

Imagineer1981, the Disneyhaters Club(tm) here are being duplicitous.

On one forum they will argue that 3rd-party restaurants serve better food and offer better service than do most of the Disney O&O outlets; but on another forum, when there is an announcement about a Disney O&O restaurant giving way to a third-party restaurant, they refuse to call this an "improvement".

On one forum they lament the conditions of rides such as Space Mountain; but on another forum they refuse to recognize the refurbishment that is in progress on that attraction as an "improvement", nor that the money spent on said improvement is a "reinvestment".

On one forum they opine for the halcyon days of when the Walt Disney World Skyway to Tomorrowland offered terrific views of the MK; but on another forum they pooh-pooh the idea of a brand new attraction that easily will trump the views from the old Skyway. "Not an improvement", they argue... or "Doesn't cost them enough money", they claim... or "I can see that same view at my local zoo"... (???)

Basically, the Disneyhaters Club(tm) are so invested in the concept of Disney doing wrong, that even when they run counter to their own previous arguments, they refuse to admit the possibility of Disney doing something even semi-decent.

My response to all of their hot air is that I have just purchased a second membership in D23 on my lunchbreak.

[JRocker]

As far as the off topic conversation goes...
Disney does need to step it up and get creative (again), and they need to stay focused on what made them what they are (which maintenance played a huge role).

Back to the topic:

Considering the current economic climate, I think this is a win-win. The airport gets to hang on to a good contract, and Disney has a reason to keep ME going.

If you think that ME isn't at the top of the "possible budget cuts" list, then you are fooling yourselves, and I believe the airport sees it that way as well.

I mean, come on, several of you have already listed several other customer service related areas that have taken hits, ME wouldn't be much more of a stretch. After all, people will still come to WDW...

[GothMickey]

Unfortunately, this is not a valid option. By not going you are taking more money out of their coffers and giving them more reason to cut back.

Conversely, by continuing as if nothing is wrong, they still get their pockets full and think they can keep cutting and stuffing more and more into their own pockets.

A real "Catch-22" here.

A real possibility is to go on every fan site you can, create petitions for/against policies and current procedures and get them to the Disney BoD. Not that this would do any good, mind you, but it would be a concerted effort to open their eyes to the displeasure numerous 'regular' visitors are feeling right now.

The only thing that will hurt Disney and wake them up is losing money. They cannot keep blaming the economy for their lack of leadership. I am all for writing letters, emails, and making phone calls. But, they only go so far. I am still willing to do a writing and calling campaign. Heck, I will call them every day if I have to. I don't care. However, letting them know you will not visit, and letting them know they are going to lose business because of there half-hearted, cheap, and lazy decisions will get their attention even faster.

[valjane]

That being said, by boycotting Disney, by not going, by not buying the merchandise, all you are doing is hurting Disney in the long run. They need repeat guests to stay afloat. By trying to financially hurt them, you will be basically leading to more cutbacks, more cheap effects, more broken rides, and a worse guest experience.

But they are giving me no incentive to return right now. I've been going to WDW at least once a year since 1975 (when I was 9 months old). As far as changes go, I've seen it all! I really have!

And as much as I have always loved Disney and as much as I still want to, I no longer really feel the "magic" when I go there. I just sort of feel "greed."