Recession? Not in WDW! But the Crowd BEHAVIOR is What was So Bad

[diz_girl]

Time to add my .

The big problem with DHS and why TSM is ridiculously popular is that DHS doesn't really have any other 'rides' (I'm not talking about shows) for small children. Any other 'rides' at DHS seem to have height requirements. That's why I avoided DHS during our most recent trip in December (same week as Ian). If DHS had more rides appropriate for small children, maybe the stress would be taken off of TSM.

As far as the whole 'what is this world coming to' statements, I agree that the mob mentality is as old as humanity. For the most part, it's civility that's more recent. Only in the past few decades in the U.S. has spousal abuse and child abuse become unacceptable. They were accepted and sometimes encouraged. Unfortunately, it still happens, but I hope that it will become nonexistent. We also now have civil rights for many in this country who used to have fewer rights than the majority. All I have to say is that it sure is nice to have the right to vote, something that I wouldn't have had a century ago, and the right to own property if I were married, something that I wouldn't have had 150 years ago.

As for the bad behavior, this is going to sound a bit tangential, but it really stems from the whole entitlement mentality that came with the easy credit of the past two decades. With this bad recession, it seems that that time may now be over. And if so, maybe the 'I want it now, I deserve it now' mentality (or the 'I paid $3000 for this WDW vacation so I can do what I want' mentality) will give way to the character-building activities such as saving money (delayed gratification) that is earned through hard work. It may take time, but maybe not as much as you would think. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

[crltkcagle]

thats terrible!

[briguy]

Let me start my post with a strange and seemingly unrelated analogy...

I hate cucumbers. Can't stand em. When I see someone eating them I think "why the heck would you want to???". BUT - I have no interest in telling them not to, nor does it impact my life.

I say this to make it clear I'm not trying to judge anyone that wants to rush, rush, rush at WDW, but why would you want to???

For me work = rush to get up, rush to get ready, battle traffic, beat deadlines, etc

Vacation = exact opposite. In the words of the Beatles "oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go"

If I gotta rush to get up, rush to catch a bus, rush to beat foot traffic to an attraction, etc I might as well be at work.

I know its different since I have the luxury of going multiple times per year, and maybe if it were a once in a lifetime thing I'd feel different, but really, its vacation people!!

And remember, if 10% of all people are rude, it will take you much longer to find one when its a slow time than when its crowded. Make a game of it...Spot the Jerk. Give points to the person in your group who sees the biggest idiot. It will make it much more tolerable.

Thanks, and if you happen to run into me at a restaurant in Disney...you can have my cucumbers!

[Toad_Passenger]

I say this to make it clear I'm not trying to judge anyone that wants to rush, rush, rush at WDW, but why would you want to???

For me work = rush to get up, rush to get ready, battle traffic, beat deadlines, etc

Vacation = exact opposite. In the words of the Beatles "oh that magic feeling, nowhere to go"

Respectfully snipped.

I completely agree with your sentiment. I have seen some of the worst behavior with people at WDW over the years, but I've never really let it bother me.

We spend a whole week there, and do so at a very leisurely pace. Perhaps it's because we know we'll be back soon, but if we don't get to do EVERYTHING it's not a big deal. I would hate to be at WDW and feel like I was on a whirlwind tour, because I'd probably come home more tired than when I left, whereas I want to come home refreshed.

We do have our favorites and we make sure we see them, but if it means one day having to wait 60 minutes in line, so be it. I remember when I was young (before FP) waiting 2 hours for Space Mountain because that's what you had to do. Maybe FP has spoiled a lot of people, because back then the 2-hour wait rarely included anyone being rude and unruly.

The point is that it is my vacation, and I like to take it slow and not be stressed by the other people around me. If someone is rude and bumps into me, I simply smile at them, because, "Hey! I'm at Disney!" and that's all that matters.

[Stickey]

The key issue here is that Disney is responsible for proper crowd control procedures and they are liable for any accidents/tramplings. The described situation indicates an insufficient response to the popularity of TSM. I believe that Disney needs to be stricter in dealing with those who abuse the safety of other guests and CM's and are destructive toward Disney property.

September 2007 was the worst in our experience as free dining resulted in substantially larger crowd levels. I never encountered such a large number of ignorant and inconsiderate people at WDW. Intelligence and class are not determined by income. Disney's continued tolerance of poor guest behavior will only worsen the problem.

[Mousemates]

Time to add my .

The big problem with DHS and why TSM is ridiculously popular is that DHS doesn't really have any other 'rides' (I'm not talking about shows) for small children. Any other 'rides' at DHS seem to have height requirements. That's why I avoided DHS during our most recent trip in December (same week as Ian). If DHS had more rides appropriate for small children, maybe the stress would be taken off of TSM.

As far as the whole 'what is this world coming to' statements, I agree that the mob mentality is as old as humanity. For the most part, it's civility that's more recent. Only in the past few decades in the U.S. has spousal abuse and child abuse become unacceptable. They were accepted and sometimes encouraged. Unfortunately, it still happens, but I hope that it will become nonexistent. We also now have civil rights for many in this country who used to have fewer rights than the majority. All I have to say is that it sure is nice to have the right to vote, something that I wouldn't have had a century ago, and the right to own property if I were married, something that I wouldn't have had 150 years ago.

As for the bad behavior, this is going to sound a bit tangential, but it really stems from the whole entitlement mentality that came with the easy credit of the past two decades. With this bad recession, it seems that that time may now be over. And if so, maybe the 'I want it now, I deserve it now' mentality (or the 'I paid $3000 for this WDW vacation so I can do what I want' mentality) will give way to the character-building activities such as saving money (delayed gratification) that is earned through hard work. It may take time, but maybe not as much as you would think. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

[Mousemates]

We do have our favorites and we make sure we see them, but if it means one day having to wait 60 minutes in line, so be it. I remember when I was young (before FP) waiting 2 hours for Space Mountain because that's what you had to do. Maybe FP has spoiled a lot of people, because back then the 2-hour wait rarely included anyone being rude and unruly.

yea, back in the day we were known to do an hour plus wait for SM, ride, get off and jump back in line...and be in a perfectly good mood about the whole thing. We went expecting to wait for what we most wanted to do (as did others). The wait didn't tick many people off and incite rude behaviour. Its simply different now.

[RedHead]

We go during the school's February break every year - and while the weekend (Sat - Mon) of President's Day is usually crowded, it's never been this crowded and this insane for the entire week.

DHS is a park that does not handle crowds well. The insanity at the rope drop that we experienced (three times last week) was like nothing I've ever seen before. Grown adults fighting (with elbows and shoves) to be amongst the first to TSM. FP's for TSM gone by 10:15 AM daily.

EPCOT with the same craziness heading to Soarin'. Waits of over 100 minutes early in the day and never subsiding. Waits of over 60 minutes consistently for Maelstrom. We did attend the Friday night EMH at EPCOT. Let me put it this way - never again.

The MK - let's leave it at this - I'm glad we arrived early (even hit the CP for Pooh's b'fast one day) and left after lunch. That park just gets nuts.

[SNIP]

I've not witnessed WDW with such large crowds who were behaving so badly before... And before you comment on that, know this - I go only when schools are out. I have been there Christmas week (several times), as well as Easter, President's Week, and July 4th.

Worst we saw was DHS. People pushing past CM's, ignoring their directions, cutting under ropes, around designated areas, and hopping over queues. People were just so incredibly rude, disrepectful, and downright embarrassing. Folks, I'm not talking about teens - I'm talking about parents with children. Very sad.

Last week was bar-none, the worst I've experienced. And it wasn't due to the crowd size, it was due to the crowd's behavior.

Anyone else notice a decline in the civility of people on "vacation?"

I can say that I was in WDW the weekend after you - DHS first thing, which had had EMH that day. Line for TSM was 60 minutes. The lady in front of me, with four children, then allowed her friend with the infant to cut the line and join her. When I politely said something to her, she got all hostile, told me to mind my own business, and who did I think I was anyway? I told her it WAS my business because her friend just slowed ME down, and that it was the job of all decent people to teach children that line cutting was wrong. Of course, all THROUGH the line, she was busy chatting with her friend, letting the children walk on railings, sit down in the middle of the line to play games in their autograph books, drop cereal and step on it, making a mess....yeah, some parent. (BTW - TSM ain't worth an hour's wait. )

We didn't find it as bad in the rest of the park, nor in EPCOT (Malestrom was maybe 15 minutes, but Soarin' - we got fast passes at noon for 6pm!), and MK was actually decent. Then again, some of the shoving when POTC crashed wasn't fun....some people simply cannot follow directions!

Alas. It wasn't a "hard ride" weekend, it was detox - and that we did. Except I need another one!

[RedHead]

Also partially to blame would be those who blog or post on message boards about the absolute necessity to be at DHS at rope-drop for the purpose of rushing to TSM... If enough people recommend to park-goers a strategy meant to overwhelm an attraction, it should not surprise when the attraction becomes overwhelmed.

Try the employeees on the TRAM from the Parking Lot encouraging this behavior! "Hurry and get a fastspass, or they'll all be gone!" Watch the stampede!

[RedHead]

I grew up in a nasty crime laden neighborhood in Chicago, and I guarantee you would not want to be waiting in line for Soarin' for 90 minutes with most of residents of that area. Your kids would pickup a whole new vocabulary.

I sat at breakfast at a LBV hotel last weekend, and heard a teenage male, sitting with a brother and father, refer to a woman as a <snip> - in public, in front of a parent, with children around - and nothing was said to him by said parent. I was appalled. (Of course, this was the same youth who used his hands, not the tongs, to get breakfast items off the buffet...)

[doodleboy]

The lady in front of me, with four children, then allowed her friend with the infant to cut the line and join her. When I politely said something to her, she got all hostile, told me to mind my own business, and who did I think I was anyway? I told her it WAS my business because her friend just slowed ME down, and that it was the job of all decent people to teach children that line cutting was wrong.

I'm sorry, but haven't you ever had someone hold a place in line for you before? Maybe her friend needed to feed or change that infant. We do it all of the time for similar reasons.

[RedHead]

I'm sorry, but haven't you ever had someone hold a place in line for you before? Maybe her friend needed to feed or change that infant. We do it all of the time for similar reasons.

(A) The woman hadn't been in the line to leave it to change/feed said infant, so there was no place to save.

(B) This was a blatent "come join me in line" cut - the same as one teenager asking another friend, outside the line, to jump the chain and join her.

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

[doodleboy]

(A) The woman hadn't been in the line to leave it to change/feed said infant, so there was no place to save.

(B) This was a blatent "come join me in line" cut - the same as one teenager asking another friend, outside the line, to jump the chain and join her.

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

I guess I'm guilty of being as rude a her then. I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line. That person that is in line is a member of that group and acts as a place holder for the others. What difference does is make if she had gotten in line with her friend and jumped out, then back in. She still would have been in front of you. I do it and never get upset when someone else does it. The group is working together as a team to maximize their time. Of course what to I know, I come from a city where people put chairs in front of their homes to reserve parking spaces after they have shoveled it following a snow storm.

[RedHead]

I guess I'm guilty of being as rude a her then. I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line. That person that is in line is a member of that group and acts as a place holder for the others. What difference does is make if she had gotten in line with her friend and jumped out, then back in. She still would have been in front of you. I do it and never get upset when someone else does it. The group is working together as a team to maximize their time. Of course what to I know, I come from a city where people put chairs in front of their homes to reserve parking spaces after they have shoveled it following a snow storm.

I guess you are, then. If the person in front of me had gotten out of line to join her friend, they would have joined together at the END of the line, where the line jumper should have gone.

As far as your chair/snowshoveling story - there are two big differences there, but legally you are still in the wrong. One difference is the work you put into shoveling the snow out of the space, which does give you first right to the spot - at least immediately. No one works to get a spot in a Disney line, except for running over other people, smashing small children, etc. Second, the spot is in front of your own home, an understandable reason for you to have some claim on the area. No one owns a spot in a Disney line or owns a Disney attraction except the Disney Corporation. However, legally, street parking is a public area, and anyone could move your chair and take the spot legally. Thinking that you can hold a public parking spot, especially if there is none other available, empty for hours on end is truly an example of "me-neess."

[Maleficent's Dad]

I have run ahead and jumped in line for an attraction line while my kids finished eating or ran to the bathroom. I don't think it is that uncommon or out of line.

This is the type of behavior that leads to fights, lawsuits, and overall miserable vacations for other people.
Actually, it is out of line and against the rules for WDW. No one is allowed to hold spots for others while waiting in line.

The group is working together as a team to maximize their time.

No, the "group" is not working "together." This is a case where one person is doing the work and the team is benefitting. The team works together when they all get in line at the same time.

I try to not let things like this bother me, but as the OP for this thread, I must say, you can only take "so much" of others breaking the rules.

[PirateLover]

If they wanted to ride together, the woman IN the line should have joined her friend at the BACK of the line. I've done THAT a number of times. Not taken someone else's spot, and forced them further back.

Or, they could have waited in the beginning, or said "We'll do the next ride together instead."

I think you had a good point when you talked about taking away the fact that it was a woman with an infant. I think most people would get upset if it was a teenager in line who then called his or her friend up on the phone and then they cut ahead to join them.

I have never gone ahead and gotten in line while my family took care of other business. We wait for everyone to go to the bathroom, to finish their food, get their fastpasses from the ride across the park...whatever it is, we do it together. The only time I find "cutting in line" permissible is when a small child has to go to the bathroom, and they leave and come back. Some things you just can't control.

As far as this whole crazy Toy Story Mania thing, I'm legitimately concerned for our June trip. Thankfully we are going for my fiancee's birthday, so maybe we'll take the fastpass option just so we don't have to worry about that....

[Ian]

A couple friendly moderator warnings, folks.

Watch the language. Remember that even "*'ed out content is not allowed on INTERCOT.

Also, the back-and-forth is getting a bit much and some of these posts are getting a bit personal. Maybe it's time to let this thread die and move on to something more productive.

[grwoolf]

Getting in line and holding a spot for others that can't get in line at the same time?????????? That's OK????!!!!!!

Am I missing something? Isn't that the actual definition of cutting in line? I guess the other interpretation is people that just get in line without knowing anyone, but I don't see too much of that. I can't understand how anyone can interpret holding a spot for someone (who didn't start at the end of the line) as anything but cutting in line. For me it's worse if it's a family rather than a teenager, because it's so sad seeing partents teaching this as acceptable behavior to their kids. I don't don't consider my self a die-hard rule follower or anything, it's just common sense and very basic courtesy to others. If your group isn't all ready to get in line, just wait for your group to be ready or get a fast pass (which is basically a system to hold a place in line within the rules). If someone needs to get out of line to go to the bathroom or something, I don't think anybody has a problem with that.

[kathiep]

My family was on line for TSM in September. We got our FP's and then hopped on the stand by which was only 45 minutes at that point. We were probably waiting about 30 when DS, 5, realized he had to go to the bathroom again. We all, DH, DD, DS & I left the line. DH and DD didn't want to continue waiting and ride without us because it was our first time. I never once considered leaving DH and DD in line and returning to join them. To me, this is unacceptable. If DD & Dh wanted to stay and ride, that would be fine. But to expect everyone behind us to let us back through, to me, that's not OK. It's just a ride and we knew we'd have another chance to ride. Sure, it stunk to wait that long for nothing, but in the grand scheme of things, is it important enough to inconvenience everyone else? No.

[Eeyore Phan]

To add one to the rude pile:

Today while waiting in line for Tomorrowland Speedway a woman had her 4 year old pull down his pants and start peeing in the bushes off the platform. Appauling to think people could behave so brazen!