Dissin' Downtown Disney

[MaxPower]

With the recent closing of Pleasure Island, I was thinking about how much that area has changed since its creation. I think Pleasure Island was a great idea when it was created. And most importantly, it still had a truly Disney feel. (I'm talking to you Adventurer's Club.)

And then the greed started creeping in. Let's build a Planet Hollywood! How about an AMC movie theater! Virgin Mega-Store! All of a sudden, a truly Disney experience became like a shopping district in any city.

And then, as Kathleen Turner used to say in The Seas at EPCOT......... The deluge.

More and more NON-DISNEY stores and restaurants appeared -and the various levels of quality that go with them. And what happens when you build a shopping mall? You get the atmosphere and clientele of a shopping mall.

On any given day now, You find more local Florida teens than WDW guests. At night, the clubs attract locals more intent on partying than having a Disney experience.

Am I against the locals having a good time? Of course not. My point is that Downtown Disney is a mere shadow of what was originally intended by the creation of Pleasure Island. It used to be a DISNEY experience intended for Disney guests just as much as visiting a theme park. Now, it's a dollar-driven shopping mall on steroids that brings in a lot of the elements that people try to head to Disney World to get away from in the first place.

[SBETigg]

I hear you. I actually loved it even more before Pleasure Island, when it had a quiet sort of Disney magic, just a few shops and restaurants, the Empress Lilly floating at the dock, lights twinkling on myriad trees. It was beautiful, like a fairy tale locale. And then, Pleasure Island...

[LauraleeH]

Maybe that's part of the reason why they closed PI...maybe they will put more Disney and less Downtown into the new places

[Disneyfun]

Yes, Pleasure Island...the one place in WDW where you could turn into a ...mmm, donkey...at midnight! I thought this was the most un-Disney area in the entire property. Adventurer's Club was nice, and I enjoyed the Comedy Warehouse, but I thought that it was one of the first steps that Disney took away from Walt's original vision - to have a theme park where a family could go do things together (reference to his watching his daughter on the merry-go-round).
Now it seems that Disney is all about individual experiences that cater to only one demographic of a family at a time. Some of them are really great, but it seems divisive at times.

[Seasonscraps]

I guess it depends on your perspecive - I find that Disney World pretty much as a whole caters to families with children. Excpet for Victoria & Alberts, Jelly Rolls and Atlantic Dance Club - where are children not permitted?

People that travel to Disney without children (childless couples, honeymooners, retirees, conventioneers, etc) have to expect children everywhere - including places that in other parts of the country are not permitted such as lounges. I get that it's Disney and children will be just about everywhere which is fabulous. I LOVE watching the little kids walking around in their cute customes in awe of their surroundings - that's part of the magic for me even though I don't have my own children.

But I also thought the original PI was a great idea - a place for adults to be adults later in the evening when kids are typically in bed anyway. I think it was just in a bad location - severing DTD from the West Side made the whole area awkward and disconnected. I am curious to see what the new DTD/PI or whatever it's going to be called will be like.

[AnnetteFan]

I think the problem with PI wasn't the fact that Disney started outsourcing restuarants or shops, but that Disney themselves weren't able to keep their offerings current. The thing about nightclubs is that you have to keep them current and up to date in order to appeal to the demographic that would be frequenting them. It isn't like Space Mountain where you can slap a fresh coat of paint on every few years and people will be happy, you have to keep things new and fresh. Pleasure Island got stuck in the mid-90's and to me that's what did them in. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed PI, but I enjoyed it as a CM who got in free, it was never something I would have paid for. If I was going to pay $25 to go to clubs I wouldn't want to walk into a club like Motions that claimed they played the "Latest Hits" and hear "Getting Jiggy With It" in 2008. From the color scheme to the music, everything was stuck in the 90's, too recent to be nostalgic but not recent enough to be new.

[BraddyB]

Hey now, there is nothing wrong with Getting Jiggy wit it !! ha ha ha ha

[AnnetteFan]

^Not at all but it's still not something you'd want to try to pass off as current. Even 8 Tracks which was meant to be nostalgic needed a few updates to keep it from getting cheesy, AC was really the only thing that wouldn't have needed a complete retheming every few years. Disney tends to let things sit and get outdated easily and while that might pass in the themeparks, it doesn't work for nightclubs.

I hope with their new offerings they go in the direction of House of Blues, places that can be family oriented in the daytime and then can be adult oriented late at night. That to me would be a good idea because then they'd be catering to both the family set and grown ups and maximizing profits.

[RBrooksC]

DTD is designed to be something for the locals and guest of WDW both. One of the main reasons major chain stores and eateries were brought there was because it is a lot less expensive and it allows for a more diverse collections of items one can purchase.

The movie theater is a good idea because it keeps people on property during lousy weather or when a big movie premiers. Why not keep those movie goers on campus as opposed to going elsewhere in Orlando.

Also, some of those big stores like The Virgin Megastore isn't in every city and sometimes that is the only place where one can go to shop there.

Remember, anything that is free will attract more people and many times people many would rather not have there. It happens. But Disney shouldn't be chastised for what they are doing in DTD. There is only so much one can do to market Disney merchandise and the Marketplace has more stores than one could imagine for Disney merchandise.

[locutus]

Maybe that's part of the reason why they closed PI...maybe they will put more Disney and less Downtown into the new places

Thats not likely. A couple months ago I emailed Disney to ask if the rumors of PI closing were real and how dissapointed Many people would be if so. A gentleman from their executive offices contacted me by phone and told me of there plans. He told me based on guest feedback ( i never was asked) thatthe clubs would close in favor of a more " family friendly" environment. I told him that at night that was intended to be an adult place to kick back and not for families. When I asked what options us adults would have he said we could go to the house of blues or the Irsh pub, or Jellyrolls/Atlantic Dance at Boardwalk. He said PI would have new resteraunts and shopping options ( Hanes T-shirt store is one and a bowling alley may be put in the old rock beach club). When he asked what I thought about tthat, I told him I didnt like it because Disney does not need more resteraunts and store/gift shops. When I said Disney has become a big gift shop with some rides thrown in he didnt really seem to like that...but it is true. PI is going to be nothing short of what someone else mentioned...just a mall. To bad.

[AnnetteFan]

DTD is designed to be something for the locals and guest of WDW both. One of the main reasons major chain stores and eateries were brought there was because it is a lot less expensive and it allows for a more diverse collections of items one can purchase.

The movie theater is a good idea because it keeps people on property during lousy weather or when a big movie premiers. Why not keep those movie goers on campus as opposed to going elsewhere in Orlando.

Also, some of those big stores like The Virgin Megastore isn't in every city and sometimes that is the only place where one can go to shop there.

Remember, anything that is free will attract more people and many times people many would rather not have there. It happens. But Disney shouldn't be chastised for what they are doing in DTD. There is only so much one can do to market Disney merchandise and the Marketplace has more stores than one could imagine for Disney merchandise.

I agree with a lot of your post. There's only so much Disney you can put in a shopping and dining area outside of the parks. It makes sense to bring restaurants or concepts that are unique and different that people wouldn't neccesarily be able to get at home but aren't neccesarily Disney either. DTD isn't meant to feel like an extension of the themeparks.

[jillluvsdisney]

I did go to the Adventurer's Club once and thought it was fun. I also went to the Comedy Warehouse and enjoyed that also. The rest, I could do without. I really won't miss that they closed it all down.

That being said, I enjoy going the Westside. We always seem to go see a movie when we are at WDW. My Dad loves the classical music selection at the Virgin Mega Store. We all love eating at the House of Blues and Cirque du Soleil can't be beat.

[Sinewiz]

It isn't the stores, restaurants, gift shops or anything else that caused the slippage of the Downtown Disney area, (in particularly PI), It was the deluge of underaged local teenagers which found it a great time to spend their evenings and pay next to nothing for doing it. Disney guests felt less and less secure as the masses increased.

At it's worst, a few years back, I remember while visiting PI that I was run into by a skateborder, forced to listen to a basketball being dribbled while I was listening to the group that was playing on stage,as well as witnessing numerous underage drinking by large groups of teens. I'm sure this isn't what Disney envisioned when they drew up the plans for PI. I say good riddance and am looking forward to what ever Disney comes up with. It has to be an improvement.

[Piglet822]

I was never a PI person, I'm rather boring truth be told
Isn't it possible that Disney was already having problms, moneywise, in PI which is why they made the open gate policy in the first place? In their thinking they might have figured no cover charge to get in the gate would attract more people, that otherwise might not venture in that direction, and ultimately put more money in their (DIsney's) pocket. Obviously that plan backfired. Much like the concept of the Disney Institute.

[locutus]

It isn't the stores, restaurants, gift shops or anything else that caused the slippage of the Downtown Disney area, (in particularly PI), It was the deluge of underaged local teenagers which found it a great time to spend their evenings and pay next to nothing for doing it. Disney guests felt less and less secure as the masses increased.

At it's worst, a few years back, I remember while visiting PI that I was run into by a skateborder, forced to listen to a basketball being dribbled while I was listening to the group that was playing on stage,as well as witnessing numerous underage drinking by large groups of teens. I'm sure this isn't what Disney envisioned when they drew up the plans for PI. I say good riddance and am looking forward to what ever Disney comes up with. It has to be an improvement.

Your in luck Sinewiz..if you are looking forward to what Disney comes up with next you dont have to wait..just go down to your nearest mall. The problems you mention only started happening when PI became open (not charged at the gate) and charging per club. If the old turnstiles were started up again, and some security hired..those problems wouldnt have existed. It is just Disney cutting costs again...to hell with the guestswho took advantage of PI. In case you missed other posts, What you are waiting to see Disney do is no improvement. Hanes t-shirt store, bowling alley , and more gift shops and resteraunts. Like Disney needs more of that. What are the adults staying at Disney reduced to? JellyrollsandHouse of Blues. OH JOY. Thats why Universal will be booming for many of us.

[BigRedDad]

as much as I enjoyed going to PI, the last time I went (on a Sunday) was the last time I was ever going. The reason is I thought I was smack dab in the middle of a gang initiation based on the number of people there from one local ethnicity, the gang clothes they wore, the way they looked and approached you inside and outside of PI, and the complete unsafe feeling you had while in there. It was easier to turn around and kiss the $50 good bye that we had just plopped down to get in. If you have to look over your shoulder all the time to be concerned about getting mugged, then it is not what WDW intended

What WDW needs to do is make DTD open to resort guests and guests with park passes. Keep as much of the local hoodlums out and make it safer for those it was intended.

[TheRustyScupper]

It isn't the stores, restaurants, gift shops or anything else that caused the slippage of the Downtown Disney area, (in particularly PI), It was the deluge of underaged local teenagers

Let's review the chronology and Disney blunders
. . . Disney tries to catch up with City Walk plans *
. . . WDW hastily puts up Pleasure Island
. . . it was poorly planned and poorly executed
. . . people did not like paying admission
. . . losses mounted
. . . to attract people, they allowed browsing
. . . local teens (and some say, gangs) came, since it was free
. . . loitering was rampant
. . . guests became afraid to visit
. . . security guards were hired to run off loiterers
. . . nowhere did losses end, in fact they increased
. . . PI was redesigned as a shopping & eating venue

* Disney has not planned or executed well since Epcot and Tokyo Disney. (We can discuss the lack of successes like Disney-Paris, Studios-Paris, Hong Kong, MGM, Animal Kingdom, California Adventure.) A good example was MGM -- when Universal announced, Disney put a big rush to be the first. It was so poorly designed that MGM opened with just two rides and a poorly designed people-flow.

[Mackflava99]

Actually PI was a good idea and with moderation it could have been exceptional- too much was added and it became a place for trouble.
Too many kids, too much security needed-

In reality, it should have been, if you have a room key OR a ticket from the park this week,, enter, but if you don't go to downtown orlando-

[AnnetteFan]

Actually PI was a good idea and with moderation it could have been exceptional- too much was added and it became a place for trouble.
Too many kids, too much security needed-

In reality, it should have been, if you have a room key OR a ticket from the park this week,, enter, but if you don't go to downtown orlando-

I don't really agree with this idea, locals can't enjoy Disney themeing or entertainment? They should all be expected to go to Downtown Orlando which isn't even convienant for a lot of residents? What about CM's? PI pretty much relied on CM's for bussiness for quite awhile, what they lost in free admission they made up for in drink sales.

[Sinewiz]

The biggest problem was when Disney quit charging an entrance fee to enter the Pleasure Island. That when all the local teens began hanging out there. It was just way too convenient to hang around the area and listen to the music when you didn’t have to pay a dime to be there. I say treat the entire Disney Downtown area like it's a theme park, or water park. Charge a small fee for entrance to any part of it, not just pleasure Island. Trust me on this Disney, the people that wouldn’t pay a small entrance fee probably won’t be spending anything once they entered anyway. What would happen is, the paying guests would feel more secure and would increase in numbers which would result in more spending on their part. The security aspect of that area has always baffled me. Not once have I ever seen anyone who looked like law enforcement patrolling the area. I would surmise that that’s because Disney doesn’t want to give the appearance that the area is unsafe. In my mind if you charged even an insignificant amount of say $2.00 you would probably eliminate 90% of the local loitering teen crowd which ruined it for the vacation crowd.
I reiterate, it doesn’t make a difference what type of restaurants, shopping, entertainment, music, etc, etc, you put in, unless there is some type of law enforcement patrolling the area, as well as some type of fee to enter, the loitering by underage kids will continue and the vacation crowd will steer clear of what they perceive as an unsafe area for their families.