Still on a wait list....

[Ian]

But honestly, the problem is that people bought into DVC at a location they don't care to stay at, AND the resort just happened to be the biggest DVC resort currently.

That's not really fair. We don't have the desire to stay at the same resort every time no matter what resort it is. We liked to move around and have some variety.

I own at SSR and I love SSR, but yeah ... I'd like to try some of the other resorts, too. Doesn't mean I "bought at a location I don't care to stay at."

[Aurora]

But honestly, the problem is that people bought into DVC at a location they don't care to stay at, AND the resort just happened to be the biggest DVC resort currently.

I didn't buy into SSR because I have no desire to stay there.

That's OK, because when they build that 5th gate at Lake Buena Vista golf course we'll be sitting pretty!

[lockedoutlogic]

But honestly, the problem is that people bought into DVC at a location they don't care to stay at, AND the resort just happened to be the biggest DVC resort currently.

I didn't buy into SSR because I have no desire to stay there.

Saratoga was the only location available when we purchased....

and though most now preach "buy where you want to stay"....the 12 extra year of ownership for my children and/or grandchildren was the right choice.

I could take the "I liked beach club....they can get their own" approach as many have now used to justify.....but that....frankly....makes me a selfish parent or potential grandparent.

Of course.....had it to do again i might consider resale....certainly we would have waited 3 months and bought at AKV....had we known....

but that is just my take.....the real problem is that saratoga is inferior....yes....i state that as a conclusion after much thought....not a random quip....to the other locations.
Had they not gotten greedy and put the point values at the OKW levels....this would be a much smaller problem.

But they screwed up...as Disney does when the rope is available. I personally get some satisfaction in the fact that they are probably amassing saratoga points back into their banks by the week....if not day....

and that will likely continue

[DizneyRox]

I 100% agree with the inferior comment. I wasn't impressed at all, but it is a place to stay. Compared to BWV, VWL, and BCV, there really isn't any comparison.

Unfortunately, SSR (according to my guide) has sold out, so I'm not sure who to loser is in all this. Taking a look at the resale sites, SSR leads the pack in resorts back out on the market. Disney isn't going to exercise ROFR on those, so unless someone else falls for it, Disney is actually sitting pretty. Someone is going to continue to pay for those, or fall into foreclosure, or just [inhale deeply] and stay there.

DVC really in a win win for Disney. I'm not at all upset we own, but I do think we made good decisions on locations, points, etc. I can't help but think that many people blindly jump into a DVC purchase. Looking at the resales, the number of points on many contracts seems to indicate little thought. Many times it's just the minimum that was necessary at the time, hey maybe it's coincidence, maybe it is the perfect amount, but I think that many folks just didn't put a lot of thought into the purchase. It's a large investment, and one that needs to be carefully considered. I don't understand the low per point offerings as well, some as low as
$67 a point. There's going to be some bitter people coming out of this, and that's not going to help Disney in the customer service dept.

I'd like to try some of the other resorts, too. Doesn't mean I "bought at a location I don't care to stay at."

And, technically, you "can".

[Maleficent's Dad]

But honestly, the problem is that people bought into DVC at a location they don't care to stay at, AND the resort just happened to be the biggest DVC resort currently.

This is simply not true. We have points at the BWV. We bought additional points at SSR. DVC has always sold itself on the premise that you can stay at any DVC resort as long as you are an owner. They have never stipulated that you "could" stay elsewhere if it's available.

DVC has been a wonderful experience for my family and me. However, the waitlist problem is becoming nothing short of a joke.

One of the perks that the salesman 'pushed' was the fact that I could stay at all the DVC resorts by reserving the room at the 7 month mark.

Soooo, I'd like to use that perk. But it never seems to be feasible. And, with the DVC resorts I have stayed at in the past...it's been hard to get the room.

I feel for you; really, I do. Disney did a dis-service to the thousands that bought into SSR blindly. They sold it as another great resort (which it is, to an extent), with the option of staying at ANY other DVC resort you'd like, which is a joke.
I have SSR points, and I'm glad I do (longer contract agreement). But it's sad to think that I can use these points elsewhere, because, quite frankly, Disney LIED about the option to use the points at any DVC resort.

And in case you think I'm overstating the case, try as a non-home member getting ressies for December at either the BW or BC. Ah, yeah. Good luck.

And, technically, you "can".

Well, reading my post above, you can see that I definitely disagree with this comment. There is no way you "can" get a room at some of the resorts at certain times. Good luck getting a room at the BCV during the F&W festival; so, "technically, I cannot."

[DizneyRox]

Well, reading my post above, you can see that I definitely disagree with this comment. There is no way you "can" get a room at some of the resorts at certain times. Good luck getting a room at the BCV during the F&W festival; so, "technically, I cannot."

DIsney NEVER promised that you could get exactly what you want when you want. So, you "can" stay at an other resort, maybe not the date(s) you want, but it's possible. Like I've always said, the words Disney chooses are chosen for a reason. If there's the slightest possibility that it could happen, which might mean the stars need to line up, then you "can". Can doesn't mean always, which I think is many people's interpretation...

I stand by my comments, you "can" use your points to stay at any other DVC property. The problem is, their availability doesn't coincide with yours, THAT was never part of the contract.

Quite honestly, I don't think Disney ever promised that I would be able to use my points each and every year either. It's up to me to be diligent, plan ahead, or whatever else I need to do to make sure I'm able to secure accomodations using my points. They have provided me the tools to do that, by giving me 11 months to make a reservation at "home", which is long before anyone else can book at my "home". I really can't expect Disney to be able to jump when I say jump and find me the exact room I want whenever it is I decide it's time for a vacation. That's not how it works, that's not what my guide explained to me, and that's not what I expected to happen when I joined. Use of my points falls squarely on my shoulders...

[Ian]

Rox, I agree with you to an extent, but listen ... not all guides are created equal, I can tell you that.

Ours was up front and honest with us. He clearly explained how it worked, what needed to happen for us to stay at other resorts, how the 7 vs. 11 month window worked, etc.

But when we were down in September and buying our BLT points, I overheard another guide giving a pitch to a couple and she emphasized (and I do mean emphasized) that they could stay "anywhere they wanted on Disney property." She never mentioned a thing about it being difficult to get accomodations or anything like that. The only qualifier, which was thrown in at the very end and quite off-the-cuff, was an, "But of course you book resorts other than your home resort 7 months out as opposed to 11 months at your home resort."

Those were her exact words ... notice how misleading they are?

My point is, while you or I may have gotten good explanations from our guides, I'm not comfortable that everyone has.

By the way, on a side note, I totally disagree with the notion that SSR is, in any way, "inferior." Obviously the location isn't as prime as BWV or BCV, but I mean duh? If you didn't know that buying in then you've got other issues.

But the resort itself I think is beautiful, the rooms are nice and new, and overall the grounds are near immaculate. So while it might not be totally on par with the other DVC resorts you mentioned, it's not really an apples to apples comparison, because the points are more at those places.

Now compared to OKW where the points are roughly equal, I think SSR is the darn Four Seasons. OKW is a dump.

[DizneyRox]

Maybe I'm just good at reading between the lines.

Points go further at SSR than other resorts. For what reason? I can only deduce location, or preference. There has to be an incentive to stay there...

I do feel bad for folks that may have been duped, but, when making a purchase as big as DVC, you really need to pay attention and think it through. When you're parting withtens of thousands of dollars, you need to ask the second and third level questions. I would like to think the guides would be honest with the answers though, and if you are saying they wouldn't be, then that's a bigger/different issue. I haven't seen anything to indicate people have been outright lied to.

That's mostly what I'm saying...

[DVC Mike]

The paperwork that we get as new DVC members is very specific that reservations are subject to availability and make clear the first come, first served nature of the reservation system.

Members who own at a particular resort get the home resort booking priority and thus get the opportunity to attempt to book desirable time periods and room types.

At the 7-mo window, other DVC members get an opportunity to book whatever use periods and accomodations are left over. So yes, it may be difficult for non-owners of BCV to book BCV during the F&W Festival.

People who have expectations of booking non-home resorts during that resort's most popular booking periods are being unrealistic, IMO.

[Maleficent's Dad]

I do feel bad for folks that may have been duped, but, when making a purchase as big as DVC, you really need to pay attention and think it through. When you're parting withtens of thousands of dollars, you need to ask the second and third level questions. I would like to think the guides would be honest with the answers though, and if you are saying they wouldn't be, then that's a bigger/different issue.

Rox,
That was my point, exactly.
I have been watching DVC "sell themselves" as a vacation where you can stay anywhere on Disney's property and have priority at DVC resorts.

I have points at the BW and SSR, so it's a nice mix. The craziness of the waitlist is amazing - I just see DVC as selling themselves as "buy at one, stay at any!"

To me, that is what is disappointing...

[Aurora]

The reason I posted the poll elsewhere in this forum is that it really doesn't matter how many resorts DVC builds in terms of whether you can stay at another resort, even if you're on the waitlist.

Yes, I said it, and it's true.

What matters is movement (staying at non-home resorts) among owners, and whether you have your heart set at a PARTICULAR non-home resort.

SSR is the largest resort, has the most owners, and I think everyone agrees has the greatest movement. It's probably safe to assume BWV, BCV and VWL has the least movement and we already know that these three have the fewest owners (BWV being the largest of the three).

BLT will be in the "little-movement" category at first, but I think movement will open up in future years, as kids grow up and don't need to overlook the MK, people want variety, etc.

My point is that the more movement there is, the more chances members will have to stay in the better-located resorts. If you waitlist at ANY of the "big three," (soon to be big four), instead of a PARTICULAR one, your chances of getting a different resort will be pretty good.

Check out the poll. There are few responses, but so far more than 70 PERCENT occasionally stay at non-home resorts. Only 10 PERCENT haven't been able to stay at another resort.

[thumperbug]

We bought into DVC in October 2003. We felt no pressure, felt we were given all the important facts and truly like our sales guide.

We made an initial purchase and eventually added on additional points. Out of our last 6 trips taken we have only stayed at SSR (home resort) once. All other times we have stayed at other DVC resorts.

The only time we had a problem (term being used lightly) was booking for December 2007. There was nothing available at any DVC..studios, 1 bedroom. We changed some of the dates..nothing. So, we called one or 2 more times and we were able to get a 1 bedroom at BWV the ORIGINAL dates we wanted.

I do agree it seems to be a more difficult to stay at non home resorts but I have never felt duped or lied to. As I stated previously, I was able at the 7 month mark to change my Feb 09 reservation from SSR to VWL....

We enjoyed our stay at SSR and really didn't think any of the bus rides to any parks were really that long. I think the longest ride was maybe 15 mins to Magic Kingdom.

I am sure there are many folks who bought into DVC with their eyes closed. Its just a fact that there are some people who would not know what questions to ask and that there may be less then honest sales guides.

[Goes4FastPass]

...I am STILL on a waiting list for ONE day. I was put on the wait list in MAY!...

Isn't this something your guide should help you with? If a guide is only involved with the purchase of DVC membership shouldn't the title be something different like, well, salesperson?

I'm the spouse at our house trying to 'sell' DVC membership to the other spouse. If we had this kind of frustration after spending that kind of money we'd soon join the not small group of ex-DVC members.

[DizneyRox]

Isn't this something your guide should help you with? If a guide is only involved with the purchase of DVC membership shouldn't the title be something different like, well, salesperson?

I'm the spouse at our house trying to 'sell' DVC membership to the other spouse. If we had this kind of frustration after spending that kind of money we'd soon join the not small group of ex-DVC members.

In my experience, no they can't help with much outside of the sale. I hear from mine only once a year, right after I check in (using my points).

I certainly hope that guides aren't bypassing the waitlist process. It's supposed to be a first come first served, not a squeaky wheel gets the grease type of thing. It's totally possible that a date just never opens up.

What I have always done is, at the 11 month mark, make your reservation for your home resort for the time of your vacation. Then, at 7 months, you call again and try to transfer your points over to your desired resort. If you can't , you waitlist and wait it out. At least you have a room. NEVER EVER wait until the 7 month window to try to get a room, there's no guarantee you'll even get your home resort.

If you can't plan your vacation more than 7 months out, DVC may not be a very good choice.

If you MUST stay at more desirable resorts that are NOT your home resort, DVC may not be you for you.

I have found DVC to be very flexible and super accomodating and I'm glad I joined. I'm mad I didn't join earlier, that's my only regret. But, we have no problems planning a year out, once planned a cruise almost two years out. Yes, I have called when I had the itch for a last minute trip, coudn't get a room, so I didn't go. But, I know getting a room with very little notice just isn't the way DVC works, for the most part.

[lockedoutlogic]

Before Saratoga...DVC had a manageable, comfortable level of demand for all it's locations.....

since saratoga....it has hit the wall.

all this point/ counterpoint stuff about "fine print" and "misleading salespeople"...while of course accurate and valid....is a diversion...

DVC went to far by building what i like to call the "Caribbean Beach of DVC" on the failed Disney Institute site....

not surprisingly it coincided with the ridiculous housing markets and people putting everything on plastic.....

big surprise.....excess is best.....it's like Gordo Gecko was brought in to do strategic planning in 2003.....

anyway....they screwed up....

instead of making it low point value....like OKW....that would have tempered demand to book elsewhere....they put it on par with the "better" locations....

They screwed up......no matter who individually likes saratoga....they screwed up on the net gain/loss....

I'm not really going out on a limb here....

did i mentioned they screwed up?

[Aurora]

Isn't this something your guide should help you with? If a guide is only involved with the purchase of DVC membership shouldn't the title be something different like, well, salesperson?

I'm the spouse at our house trying to 'sell' DVC membership to the other spouse. If we had this kind of frustration after spending that kind of money we'd soon join the not small group of ex-DVC members.

To be fair, in Sunshine's original post in September (http://www.intercot.com/discussion/s...d.php?t=141936), she said she called in January and made ressies for Dec. 5-14 and got all her dates at SSR (her home resort). At the 7th month window she started calling daily to switch over to OKW and got every day but Dec. 7.

So really, she got all the dates she wanted except Dec. 7 at OKW. She only wants OKW because that is where all her other days are. So she's stuck waiting for ONE DAY on a waitlist because she only has one resort choice for one date.

In the meantime, as of today on my poll, more than 70 percent of the people responding said they occasionally or always stay at a non-home resort.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to those who have had to deal with the dashed hopes of an unsuccessful wait, but I just don't see that big of a problem here.

[dlpmikki]

In the meantime, as of today on my poll, more than 70 percent of the people responding said they occasionally or always stay at a non-home resort.

Polls can be misleading. I answered yes to your poll because over the years I have stayed elsewhere but it is getting harder and harder to do. It used to be pretty easy but that just is not the case anymore.

[DizneyRox]

did i mentioned they screwed up?

Who is they?

I don't see this as Disney's fault. The property sold out, so really what does Disney care? They have recouped their development costs and will continue to collect maintenance fees so the resort has/will pay for itself. Sure some points will default back into Disney's hands if people stop paying or foreclose or whatever but all Disney will need to do is raise the maintenance fees to adjust for whatever they are holding, IF it doesn't sell back to someone.

Everything else I agree with mostly...

[Ian]

I certainly hope that guides aren't bypassing the waitlist process. It's supposed to be a first come first served, not a squeaky wheel gets the grease type of thing. It's totally possible that a date just never opens up.

I don't know ... I've heard/seen more than one person say they called to check on their waitlist status and something magically opened up while they were on the phone.

I'm fairly certain squeaky wheels are getting priority ...

[DizneyRox]

I'm fairly certain squeaky wheels are getting priority ...

I know someone who works in the hotel industry and has some colorful languard for what I refer to as exceptional guests. You know there's something to be said for speaking up and letting it out, especially in front of other guests.