cheating in new england

[Donald A]

I also harbor no resentment towards the Patriots, even though they beat us in the super bowl. I would have the same opinion if it was any other team, yes, including the Eagles. I have heard talk of this from people who don't even follow sports and on regular news programs, so I disagree that it isn't a big deal. I also follow Jeff G's logic. If every team was using this technique, then the other teams wouldn't be commenting on it. They would just sweep it under the rug. I think that all teams try to figure out signals, but I don't think all teams have an employee on the sidelines taping hand signals. These allegations have been made multiple times against the Patriots and no other team that we know of at this time.

I also just heard that the Patriots actually have two first round picks and two third round picks so that penalty doesn't even hurt them as much.

The bottom line for me is this: If there wasn't some kind of competitive advantage to be gained from this practice then why do it? Why take that risk? Especially against a team where the coach knows your tactics and is going to be on the lookout to possibly sell you out? How far do you go to win?

One of the Eagles players was quoted as saying that he believes he is now the Super Bowl Champ. He wants to trade in his NFC Championship ring for a Super Bowl ring. I know that is a stretch but if you cheat now you very well cheated then. I sorta agree with the Eagles player.

This post makes a good point, if they claim they won games because of their talent, why did they bother cheating. You can't say they didn't know they were cheating, they did and Goddell mentioned the memo (Sept. 6) that told them specifically video of signals was against the rules. They were caught, it is a fact, they cheated.

Football fans are passionate. Fans in New England are passionate and they are the ones who really are suffering here. It's a tough situation.

[Epc0tphr34k]

If it wasn't widespread, don't you think the punishment would have been stiffer and the whole thing would have been more shocking?

i have a hard time following this train of thought. i would think if you think this is going to be a future problem or it is more widespread than you think then you would skew to the side of harsher punishment to make the punishment horrible enough that it makes others not even want to try.

[Epc0tphr34k]

One of the Eagles players was quoted as saying that he believes he is now the Super Bowl Champ. He wants to trade in his NFC Championship ring for a Super Bowl ring.

that was reno mahe and he kinda said it in a joking manor if you read the quote.

[darthmacho]

I love the Pats, and this scandal has taken much of the fun of being a Pats fan, especially considering their success. I think the worst culprit is Belichik, and apparently he will pay for his greed, and pride, both of which are deadly sins. They were told to stop, and still proceeded to break the rules.

I still support the team, but they had better get their act together, and succeed without cheating.

As for Mangini, he is a hypocrite. Chances are, he was okay with the whole taping thing when he was the one benefitting from the practice two years ago when he was on the payroll. He got his current job thanks to the success of the Patriots, so if the Patriots success has been tainted by the cheating, so has his success as well.

[SBETigg]

i have a hard time following this train of thought. i would think if you think this is going to be a future problem or it is more widespread than you think then you would skew to the side of harsher punishment to make the punishment horrible enough that it makes others not even want to try.

Not if you don't want to call more attention to a matter and want the issue closed before the widespread possibility of cheating can be explored further. A harsher punishment might call for more backlash from the Patriots and and exposure of other teams.

Or you can believe the Pats are the only ones cheating. I hope they are, truly. They're my team, but it's a disgusting practice. I don't want to believe it's widespread, but I'm not naive.

[battlefield2freak]

also if you were to read the what it said on the nfl site when it said breaking news it said they lost there first round draft pick as well as the fines to belicheck and the franchise. all in all that really doesnt hurt the pats all it is is just a fine and losing a draft pick which they wouldnt need to use more than likely since they have great talent on both offense and defense.

[ccp1]

I've been a Pats fan for as long as I care to admit. Not a "jump on the bandwagon-Tom Brady era" fan, I've been a fan since the Steve Grogan/ Matt Cavanaugh years, when they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs by week 3 every year.

That being said, I am embarrassed to be a Pats fan right now. People push the envelope of what they can get away with all the time in this world, but that doesn't make it ok.

- The NFL addressed this exact situation during the offseason, reminding teams that it was illegal,

-The Pats did it anyway,

-Bill Belichick, who is well known for knowing EVERYTHING about the rules (remember the creation of the tuck rule?) used as an excuse "I had a different interpretation of the rule".

???

IMHO, the NFL, apparently, doesn't mind having its intelligence insulted, because I would have suspended him just for giving that rediculous excuse.

I would have had no problem with a suspension for BB, or even a forfit (even though the footage was never seen, it doesn't make the act right). The NFL seems to be saying, as long as you have the money to cover it, cheating is ok.

(Just my humble opinion, yours may vary...)

[Ian]

What I find marginally baffling is that fact that the NFL suspended Wade Wilson (Cowboys' QB coach) for five games for using HGH, which he says he takes to help him with his diabetes symptoms.

Now this is a coach, mind you. Not a player. This had absolutely ZERO affect on the outcome of any NFL games. Yet that somehow warranted a five game suspension vs. no games for Belichek??

And in reality, while what people like PacMan Jones, Tank Johnson, and Michael Vick did off the field was certainly more reprehensible than what Belichek did, none of their offenses affected the outcome of games either. And yet all of them were suspended for entire seasons! Or in Vick's case, indefinitely.

Goodell is supposed to be cracking down on things that in any way tarnish the NFL's image. Well what could tarnish a league's image more than one of its marquee coaches cheating?

I guess in the end it tells players, "Hey ... if you're a three time Super Bowl champion head coach, we'll let you get away with just about anything!"

Dubious ... very, very dubious ...

[Scar]

Dubious ... very, very dubious ...

Remember, Goodell works for the owners, not the players.

[Jeff G]

What I find marginally baffling is that fact that the NFL suspended Wade Wilson (Cowboys' QB coach) for five games for using HGH, which he says he takes to help him with his diabetes symptoms.

Now this is a coach, mind you. Not a player. This had absolutely ZERO affect on the outcome of any NFL games. Yet that somehow warranted a five game suspension vs. no games for Belichek??

And in reality, while what people like PacMan Jones, Tank Johnson, and Michael Vick did off the field was certainly more reprehensible than what Belichek did, none of their offenses affected the outcome of games either. And yet all of them were suspended for entire seasons! Or in Vick's case, indefinitely.

Goodell is supposed to be cracking down on things that in any way tarnish the NFL's image. Well what could tarnish a league's image more than one of its marquee coaches cheating?

I guess in the end it tells players, "Hey ... if you're a three time Super Bowl champion head coach, we'll let you get away with just about anything!"

Dubious ... very, very dubious ...

Ian, this is well said and I agree 100%.

[battlefield2freak]

What I find marginally baffling is that fact that the NFL suspended Wade Wilson (Cowboys' QB coach) for five games for using HGH, which he says he takes to help him with his diabetes symptoms.

Now this is a coach, mind you. Not a player. This had absolutely ZERO affect on the outcome of any NFL games. Yet that somehow warranted a five game suspension vs. no games for Belichek??

And in reality, while what people like PacMan Jones, Tank Johnson, and Michael Vick did off the field was certainly more reprehensible than what Belichek did, none of their offenses affected the outcome of games either. And yet all of them were suspended for entire seasons! Or in Vick's case, indefinitely.

Goodell is supposed to be cracking down on things that in any way tarnish the NFL's image. Well what could tarnish a league's image more than one of its marquee coaches cheating?

I guess in the end it tells players, "Hey ... if you're a three time Super Bowl champion head coach, we'll let you get away with just about anything!"

Dubious ... very, very dubious ...

actually the jets let them record there signals because if they were looking the guy was using a old camera, you know the kind TV stations use, not small one. i agree with most of your post though. the cowboys coach wade wilson shouldnt have been suspended, suspending him makes the NFL look like they really dont care about the coaches and players health. and aso keep in mind pacman jones, and tank johnson had a record of getting in trouble with police and this was only belichecks second offense so the punishment they gave them so far is just about fair and i would also like to know hwy only the fines were reported? this is the punishment so far: $500,000 fine on belichek a $250,000 on the franchise, the loss of there first round pick and depending on wethere or not they make the playoffs this year will decide wether or not they lose more draft picks. i wonder why they didnt fine the guy who was video taping, which i see as the only thing they got away with.

[Ian]

Just to be clear, the punishment as I understand it is that they lose a 1st round pick next year if they make the playoffs this year. If not they lose a third rounder.

Coincidentally enough, however, the Pats have two first rounders and two third rounders next year.

Which might be why most folks are ignoring that part of the punishment, because it seems a little coincidental.

[battlefield2freak]

ah i see. i dont keep up with the number of picks they get since its more exciting to find out during draft day.

but they way i understood what was posted during that breaking news annoucement on the nfl site i took it that they was fined $750,000 all together and they lost there first round picks then i heard last night they could lose more depending on them making the playoffs.

thank you for clearing this up a bit for me.

[jenperich]

I think that the fact that the Pats have been CONSISTENTLY good without "cheating" should be good reason that we won the game against the Jets. Eric Mangini is a "woos" that needs to get over the fact that Bill Belichek bid him farewell 2+ years ago. I'm sure there is plenty of cheating going on in his organization that he's well aware of. Hopefully, NE's predicament will bring along an NFL-wide investigation of all the cheating going on. Cheating is, unfortunately, part of EVERY sport. That's just my .

[kakn7294]

I was thinking more about this last night, watching the game of course. My thoughts are this: if you cheated on a test in school and got caught, you deserved to fail (and did fail) but the rest of the class didn't deserve to all get A's because you cheated. Along those same lines, if the Pats cheated - and even if they didn't, they certainly had the means to and it looks as if that's what they intended from the evidence - they don't deserve the win. However, the Jets didn't deserve to win that game either because they played poorly. So, why not take the win away from the Patriots but don't give it to the Jets either. Both teams take a loss. To me, this punishment seems to fit the crime more than taking away a draft pick and charging them a fine that they can easily afford.

[jenperich]

There is absolutely NO telling whether or not the fact that the Pats may or may not have cheated caused them to win. This is ludicrous that people think that either, the Jets should just "get" to win...or that the win should be taken away from the Pats. The Pats win without "cheating", so I can't believe people just think the Jets would've won if the Pats hadn't done what they did. People are right by saying that cheating isn't right, but EVERYONE does it!!! The Pats got punished, leave it alone.

[kakn7294]

There is absolutely NO telling whether or not the fact that the Pats may or may not have cheated caused them to win. This is ludicrous that people think that either, the Jets should just "get" to win...or that the win should be taken away from the Pats. The Pats win without "cheating", so I can't believe people just think the Jets would've won if the Pats hadn't done what they did. People are right by saying that cheating isn't right, but EVERYONE does it!!! The Pats got punished, leave it alone.

I don't know if you are meaning me saying that they definately cheated but if you are, then read more carefully because I specifically said we don't know if they actually cheated - I said that they obviously had the means to whether they did or not. I also didn't say to give the win to the Jets - in fact, I specifically said otherwise, that neither team should get the win. Back to my analogy about cheating in school - if you were caught with the means to cheat, whether you actually did or not, you would have failed. Therefore, if you were caught in the NFL with the means to cheat, whether you did or not, you should not be allowed to keep the win - and I'm only specifying this one game where they were caught with the means to cheat, not the entire season or any past games. And I would feel the same about any team who is caught, including the Steelers.

[Ian]

I think that the fact that the Pats have been CONSISTENTLY good without "cheating" should be good reason that we won the game against the Jets. Eric Mangini is a "woos" that needs to get over the fact that Bill Belichek bid him farewell 2+ years ago. I'm sure there is plenty of cheating going on in his organization that he's well aware of. Hopefully, NE's predicament will bring along an NFL-wide investigation of all the cheating going on. Cheating is, unfortunately, part of EVERY sport. That's just my .

There is absolutely NO telling whether or not the fact that the Pats may or may not have cheated caused them to win. This is ludicrous that people think that either, the Jets should just "get" to win...or that the win should be taken away from the Pats. The Pats win without "cheating", so I can't believe people just think the Jets would've won if the Pats hadn't done what they did. People are right by saying that cheating isn't right, but EVERYONE does it!!! The Pats got punished, leave it alone.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but the fact that they cheated isn't even up for debate. They cheated, got caught, and admitted it. I'm not sure why you're implying that there's some doubt as to whether or not they cheated.

And also ... everyone does NOT do it. Do you really think the Packers and the Jets would have turned Belichek in if they were doing the same thing?? That's absurd. Of course not. No one would.

And let's be clear ... Mangini left the Pats to take a head coaching job, Belichek did not "bid him farewell" as you say. In fact, Belichek is the one holding a grudge against Mangini for leaving to go to a division rival in the first place.

I'm sorry, but you seem to have a very skewed perspective of reality here. The Pats DID cheat ... it DID affect the outcome of their games (otherwise they never would have done it in the first place, knowing it was against the rules), everyone else is NOT doing it, and it WILL taint the legacy of Belichek and the Pats (as it should).

[Scar]

Eric Mangini is a "woos" that needs to get over the fact that Bill Belichek bid him farewell 2+ years ago.

I'm And let's be clear ... Mangini left the Pats to take a head coaching job, Belichek did not "bid him farewell" as you say. In fact, Belichek is the one holding a grudge against Mangini for leaving to go to a division rival in the first place.

Also, I have heard rumors that Belichek begged Mangini to stay on for another year or two, saying that he would regret taking the Jets job and that a better job would come along in a year or two.

[SBETigg]

I'm sorry, but you seem to have a very skewed perspective of reality here. The Pats DID cheat ... it DID affect the outcome of their games (otherwise they never would have done it in the first place, knowing it was against the rules), everyone else is NOT doing it, and it WILL taint the legacy of Belichek and the Pats (as it should).

Ian, almost everyone I've heard from in football and sports reporting has said that everyone does it. Maybe not the same way, and to varying degrees, but the professional response was pretty clear that it goes on at all levels and the Pats were targeted for exposure most likely due to bad blood and flouting the previous warning. No excuse for the Pats, bad form.

Also, the same sources report that what the Pats were doing had absolutely no bearing on that game against the Jets, but could easily have affected future games. Still shameful behavior and disappointing for the fans.