Feelings on the 2008 Dining Plan/Will You Purchase The Dining Plan in 2008? [Merged]

[SignguyTom]

We will still purchase in 2008, but probably not beyond that. I would have liked to have seen at least a choice between appetizer & dessert since I really don't have much of a sweet tooth. The gratuity thing kind of steams me, but if it is true that the servers were not receiving the included tips, then I understand from their point of view. Overall, if you still want an appetizer and include the tip, the plan cost was raised by over 45%. That seems pretty steep to me...

[SBETigg]

Even with the changes, it is still a money-saver for my family in most cases and, it is so convenient to pay it off in advance! So yes, we will probably still use it. The loss of appetizer is fine because it is too much food at one meal otherwise and we typically tip twenty percent.

[IC10]

I debated the new prices then I thought who really cares I like to have my food paid for one less thing for me to stress about to save money for. I know I will be sure to eat but the one thing I would love to see is the wine list...

[WishingStar2006]

No, we will not be purchasing the DDp in the future...it's just not a cost savings at all and although you can pre-pay that much of your meal you still have to be prepared (and try to budget) for the gratuity and the appetizer, if you get one. I read somewhere that tax is not longer included either, but I can't remember where I read that.

If the servers weren't receiving their tips then that's an internal Disney problem and should not have been passed on to us as a additional cost......

[DizneyRox]

Never got it (never have any value to me) and I don't see anything convincing me otherwise.

I tip based on service, so having the gratuity included isn't part of that decision for 2008, I actaully like the fact that tip isn't included now (allows me to dangle a tip in fron tof a server for good service). Value is what I base my decisions on, and I see less now than before. Lowering the price a buck is a joke.

[Gator]

It used to be a good deal. Pre-pay for appetizer, meal, dessert, and tip. Now the plan goes down $1 and decreases the value by $12-20. Based on the way Disney is raising prices for everything else, this is no suprise. It's almost like Disney is doing all it can (in combination with the airlines) to keep my family from ever returning. Bummer.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Easy answer. No! This year it was marginally a value for us but with the increased prices and the dropping of virtually all DTD restaurants (on Captain Jack's left) the value has disappeared. Too bad. A good idea but transforming into simply a prepair dining program. and expensive at that.

[mook3y]

IF I were to do the DDP again, it would most likely be the Deluxe version with wine added.

However, honestly, the DDP is so much food and with the changes I dont know that I will ever do DDP again.

A typical meal anywhere at WDW is easily enough to feed my DW and myself. I forsee us eating breakfast in room and using DDE to just pay for meals out of pocket for CS and TS and splitting meals.

[jszczur5]

I would have preferred that they change the plan to an appetizer or a dessert. That way, we could share 2 appetizers and then split 2 desserts, which would work out just fine.
As for the tip being removed from the plan, I think you will find a lot of servers finding a $5 bill left on the table and that's it. I would never leave a $20 tip at any restaurant, let alone one where I had already pre-paid for the food and spent 45 minutes long distance making ADR's just for the privilege of eating at a certain restaurant, at a time that was probably not my first choice. Sorry.
Since we have started using the DDP, we hardly carry any cash with us at all. In the past, I would be hard pressed to even find $5 in my pocket on an average day.

[magicman]

Could it be that Disney's DDP money saving (expense reduction) effort could be so they can continue offering the free dining plan during off-seasons, and it won't cost the company as much????

- Just a thought.

[lockedoutlogic]

1) There is disagreement as to WHY the change was made.
2) The union was against it, because of taxes on tips.
3) Many wait-staff make over $80,000, and the taxes got higher.
4) A server's life/pay at WDW is not as bad as many think.

5) What seems to have missed here is the price increase.
6) The changes amount to a minimum 25% increase.
7) For 2 TS restaurants, the increase is about 35%.
8) But, the public will never recognize this.
9) More people will lose money on buying the DDP.
10) Oh, well, the gullibility of the public . . . . . .

NOTE: Unless it has been overlooked, the Deluxe DDP Plan is the seldom purchased Premium Plan, with just a slight change. Rename an old package/product and sell it as new.

Poetry from the Scrapper...so I'm just going to mirror his points with my own takes...

Above: Haiku...below: badly thought out Shakespearian Sonnet

1.> While there are probably many takes on why the changes were made....let's all be assured that it was mainly motivated by Disney's profits...because that is the primary motivation behind everything. They are greedy...and they have alot of financial success to show for it....
As far as the Unions go...they have no power there...they make press statements to the Sentinel...then basically take what Disney's initial offer was all along. Count on it.
2.> If the union was in fact against it...then they are more shortsighted than I thought possible for a WDW Union...no small feat. The table service servers will see their take homes drop over the next year or two....the sitdowns will no longer be packed for all meal periods as they have been. That was a silly move....
IF they are seriously concerned about hiding tip money...then they should be escorted to the border. No one in this country should stand for those who attempt to cheat the system...we all pay based on our means and assets. As it should be. I would like to also point out that Florida has no state income tax already....which is money in WDW's employees pockets that most of the rest of us do not enjoy.
3.> The WDW waitstaff has always been one of the best jobs at WDW.....to make 80,000 at WDW is a very comfortable wage in florida....the equivalent of 100+ in the northeast, upper midwest, or pacific seaboard....they live like kings at that scale.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well....but their jobs are not so much more difficult than the other CMs that it justifies them making a healthy wage while others struggle at minimum wages to keep the rest of the operation afloat.
4.> A servers life at WDW is absolutely fantastic based on the education and training level and the comparative amount of work that goes into the day. Disney restaurants are more overstaffed than practically any other locations in the US. Do you think that it's easier to work at Chef Mickey's? or a Ruby Tuesday's in Greenville, NC? It is practically a cakewalk in a place where generally...everyone is happy...money is free-flowing...and almost every table (providing a hefty tip)-wants to get out of there as fast as they can. Being a server at a character breakfast is a better job than every managerial job at WDW...that is unquestionable.
It's on the level of a dream....

5.> The price increase is always missed...because with almost every "new" program....all the press releases and printed/ web media is designed to divert the attention of the consumer off the monetary aspects and towards the "magic"
They are the best at it...and the WDW consumer is generally speaking....a pack of lemmings
6.> Concur....the included gratuity was maybe the best part of the plan in the first place....my prediction is that the plan will fall on hard times by 06/08 at the latest.
7.> Again...agree...while the plan kept people away from the Signature dining locations by and large....they make it almost impossible now.
8.> Concur...lemmings...they will realize when their Visa and Bank statements come the following month...if at all.
9.> You had to make it a point to go to the maximum priced 1 credit locations to really "make out" before....with a 20-40% bump it would be all but impossible to really save on the DDP versus out of pocket.
10.> ...uh huh...the cornerstone of WDW's repeat business....one which they have built an impressive foundation upon.

The "new" Deluxe DDP is simply a cross between the old Discovery and Deluxe Magic coupon packages...without all the recreation options that were by and large...not used.
They weren't great sellers...let's see if the fish will bite on a slightly smaller hook on it's second pass by the boat?

The last thing I'll say is that if you truly have an understanding of how the business model works at WDW.....then this was almost inevitable. I thought that maybe the increase in merchandise sales lead to enough of a cost benefit that they would ride the DDP wave...but the beancounters apparently don't agree.
This plan will fall to pieces as they continue to try and squeeze the walls in on it (like shrinking resort rooms).....but at least you might be able to get a spontaneous ressie or two in the near future

[Ms.Disney]

We will never use the DDP again it is not longer a "deal" for us. It's a shame because it was a good deal and its really nice to know that everything is pre-paid for. I was wondering where other posters heard that the waitstaff makes 80k a year? I happend to know it must not be all of them, I am friends with 3 servers that work at WDW and I know for a fact that they all make less than 45k (all of them work full time). Maybe the ones that make that have been there a long time.

[lockedoutlogic]

We will never use the DDP again it is not longer a "deal" for us. It's a shame because it was a good deal and its really nice to know that everything is pre-paid for. I was wondering where other posters heard that the waitstaff makes 80k a year? I happend to know it must not be all of them, I am friends with 3 servers that work at WDW and I know for a fact that they all make less than 45k (all of them work full time). Maybe the ones that make that have been there a long time.

That info is a little outdated...they did make around 80K (some of them...in locations with a lot of volume and table turnover...that's right...character breakfasts) until Disney took efforts to limit salaries by reducing the server's table allotments in the mid to late 90's.
That wasn't the only place were they attempted to bring down the average income and specialized functions in their operations...sadly...overall experience and quality of the employees dropped in direct proportion to most of these moves.

The servers were making great cash under DDP...I would assume...the restaurants were booked solid and almost everyone was ordering 3 courses...far different than the way it was before...I wouldn't be surprised if many made 75 or so while DDP has been in effect.
The only downside is that the average dining time might have increased with desserts and appies....but at the end of the day, the rides are still outside of the restaurants...and most don't tend to stop and sniff their cognac when Everest is calling....

[snifflesmcg]

I posted this on another thread that didn't merge to this one and eventually got locked.

I do like the idea of tip included (although I do reward good servers with extra so they get their 20% or more). You are already paying almost $40 for the DDP. This meal is inflated because you are in a tourist trap and this means you must tip according to the meal price. In the real world you can eat at 3 sit down restaurants and pay less than the $40 (ever see $40-a-day on the Food Network?)

My BF and I run about a $50-80 tab for each meal. This means that, great we get a $2 discount but now we must tip $10-$16 and that's just the two of us. That's an extra $70-$112 just for tips. I can't imagine what a large family would do!

I've been to WDW 3 years in a row now. I think it'll be awhile until we go again. Even with a "deal" you are still paying alot. Next vacation is a cruise where you still have to tip but ALL of the food is included for free.

[DizneyRox]

... Next vacation is a cruise where you still have to tip but ALL of the food is included for free.

I laugh when I hear it's "free". Nothing is "free", it's included with the cost of the cruise.

ME is NOT "free" - It's part of your room fee.
Free Dining is NOT "free" - Why are you paying rack rate for your room then?
Furniture delivery is NOT free - It's in the cost of the sofa, chair, dining room set.

Etc, etc, etc...

If anything, the DDP could be considered a loss leader, but it's not. Disney was making money hand over fist on the DDP, even when it was offered for "free". The increase in price is an attempt to just make more money, period. I agree, the servers will be paying the real price this time, I'm actually looking forward to hearing the complaints...

[disneyfan369]

I wouldn't buy it; the loss of the included tip and the appetizer makes it a pretty poor deal now.

[BugeyedMuggy]

For my DH &I we feel this is not worth it to purchase in 2008. Even tho it was too much food it was worth the money. Now it seems like you will break even at best. Next year I'll book a couple of our favorite ADR'S & be able to relax & wing the rest. BIG thumbs down to Disney for this change.

[Marker]

Simply for what it's worth, I just did a little experiment.

I calculated the out of pocket cost of 3 days worth of meals, either mirroring meals from previous trips, or as I would likely order them. The TS choices included Le Cellier, Kona, and 50's Prime time.

First - the out of pocket cost as the DDP is today.... 3 days @ 38.99 = $116.97

Then, same menu except for the appetizer, add the out of pocket tip, and 3 days @ 37.99 and the cost for the 3 days was $130.04

For 3 days a difference of 13.07, and 11% increase, or 4.35 per day.

Also, with the selections ordered, paid strictly out of pocket without the DDP...
Scenario 1 (with appetizer) would have cost me $166.49 ($116 with DDP),
Scenario 2 (w/o appetizer) would have cost me $142.62 ($130 with NEW DDP)

Also, using the new DDP, if I decided to purchase the same appetizer, therefore getting the exact same food, the total out of pocket cost came to $149.91 (166.49 w/o DDP)

Under this limited test, the DDP is still a savings over ordering it myself.

However, without the DDP, I probably wouldn't order BOTH appetizer and dessert with each TS meal, and I probably wouldn't eat as many TS meals.

[LibertyTreeGal]

I was already ready to ditch the dining plan because of the abysmal choices for kids, and now I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to use it.

Now when we do have a TS, my kids can just split an adult meal, like we do when we normally eat out.

I believe this is a way to do away with the regular dining plan actually.

[DisneyLuvnNooks]

No, we won't purchase the plan now that the tip and appetizer are gone. It used to seem magical, all inclusive, you could sample many things, and not have to worry about any cash for tips. Now you need to plan for tips in your purchase, and you lose an appetizer, and basically the price hasn't changed. I don't call $1.00 discount enough of a change to matter. So, if the servers in the union were the ones who wanted this, I think a lot more people will be paying out of pocked, eating more counter service meals, and maybe even offsite more too. They are not going to get what they thought, more take home pay in tips. It looks like this is going to trickel all the way down to not only each additional family, but also the travel agents, and as well the servers and all the people behind the scene. At least with everything included and even the free dining, the restaraunts were probably packed, or a lot busier than they will most likely be in 2008 and beyond. We also like the idea of a choice between appetizer and dessert. Being diabetic, I can never plan for dessert......