View Full Version : The Cuts... They Just Keep on Coming
DizneyFreak2002
02-13-2016, 11:02 AM
For a company that just made more money last quarter than ever before, you'd never know it with WDW... With the way cuts are being made left and right in WDW, you'd think WDW was going out of business... But when money is all that matters, and guest satisfaction means nothing anymore, do you really expect anything else?
WDW management, in their most infinite wisdom, is now cutting hours in Epcot... And while some may think this is no big deal, on the whole, it is... Why? Because this isn't the end of the cost cutting.... And well, it makes the mouse look greedy and silly especially after the huge quarter they just had...
Pixar Short Film Festival will now close at 7:00 instead of 9:00 (will stay open til 9 during EMH)...
Journey into Imagination will close at 7:00 instead of 9:00...
Phineas and Ferb's World Showcase Adventure closes now at 6:15 instead of 8:45...
Living with the Land closes at 7:00 instead of 9:00...
Mouse Gear will now open one hour after park opens, but still close at park close... So that will be 10:00 AM opening time, 9:00 AM on EMH...
More operating hour cuts to come...
Rumors are cuts are also starting with Cast Member hours at resorts...
Slower times of the year are worthy of changing hours. I bet that in the summer the hours will increase again.
Tekneek
02-13-2016, 04:32 PM
Slower times of the year are worthy of changing hours. I bet that in the summer the hours will increase again.
Although history has not reflected that in all cases. "New hours" are phased in during a slow time and become the regular hours from that point on.
DizneyFreak2002
02-14-2016, 02:04 AM
Slower times of the year are worthy of changing hours. I bet that in the summer the hours will increase again.
Didn't take long for the defense to come out... So, what is it? Is WDW slow or is there no longer time times in WDW? WDW fans cannot have it both ways for when it fits the narrative of defending/propping up the company... Fans love to say there are no more slow periods at WDW anymore.. Attendance tracking proves that... So your comment is kind of wrong...
WDW has posted huge attendance increases last quarter... Things aren't slowing down, even in February... Hours shouldn't be cut.. Hours should either remain or be extended...
however, in WDW, hours are cut... Wondering why?? Why do they need to save on costs? They just posted huge earnings for parks and resorts... WDW sure isn't hurting? Or is NextGen a bigger financial failure than fans wants to believe, or the mouse wants to let on???? Can the mess in Shanghai have anything to do with the company wanting to suddenly reduce costs??? Or is WDW management just so clueless and brain dead that, well, they know nothing else than cut cut cut???
There is more to this story... Coming soon....
wilcat
02-14-2016, 08:26 AM
WDW is not the only large corporation to do this type of thing. The one I work for had a banner year but right after the first of the year hour cuts, no travel and do more work with less people is the new norm. I blame it on the stockholders for being so greedy and making such demands on the companies to make more, more, more. I think they forget what it was like to be in the little guy's shoes who actually have to live on what they make and not what someone else hands them for doing nothing.
Pirate Granny
02-14-2016, 12:13 PM
I may be wrong, but I thought many years ago, all of future land closed at 7pm, and the countries at 9pm. Then with the arrival of soaring; soaring and test track were the only attractions opened after 7pm. Then I was surprised when I realized it was all open until 9pm...although Ellen always closed by 7pm. I've gone almost every year since 1990's...my guess is they are cutting back, cause they are building Avatarland, remaking the Studio's, and now seem to be refurbishing not only BCV (about time, a year late), but also AKV and BLT...WTH...I wondered where all this $$$ was coming from. Prices have been rising, along with special events, i.e. Desserts parties...first year was around $25 for the same desserts and beverages and locations as the $59 now. Shame, shame...same with the MVMCP and MNSSHP tickets.
BrerGnat
02-14-2016, 12:38 PM
The only one on that list that surprises me is the Mouse Gear cut. The rest are likely because NO ONE is going on those attractions anyway. Might as well shut them down while they figure out what the heck they are going to do to improve Epcot.
Sylvia
02-14-2016, 01:53 PM
The rest are likely because NO ONE is going on those attractions anyway.
Not a true statement. We always enjoy these attractions, and we're not alone.
joonyer
02-14-2016, 04:12 PM
The only one on that list that surprises me is the Mouse Gear cut. The rest are likely because NO ONE is going on those attractions anyway. Might as well shut them down while they figure out what the heck they are going to do to improve Epcot.
Not a true statement. We always enjoy these attractions, and we're not alone.
Well, we were last at WDW for Christmas week of 2015, probably the busiest week of the year. We got a 4th FP for JIYI from a kiosk to make sure we could do this favorite . . . . Got to the attraction about 15-minutes before the FP time (about 7 pm) and there was literally NO ONE in line. The waiting area was empty. I had to find a cast member to make sure it was still open. By the time we were let in there were maybe 15 people there. I was astonished and told me family then that I would not be surprised if they closed the attraction before long.
Didn't take long for the defense to come out... So, what is it? Is WDW slow or is there no longer time times in WDW? WDW fans cannot have it both ways for when it fits the narrative of defending/propping up the company... Fans love to say there are no more slow periods at WDW anymore.. Attendance tracking proves that... So your comment is kind of wrong...
WDW has posted huge attendance increases last quarter... Things aren't slowing down, even in February... Hours shouldn't be cut.. Hours should either remain or be extended...
however, in WDW, hours are cut... Wondering why?? Why do they need to save on costs? They just posted huge earnings for parks and resorts... WDW sure isn't hurting? Or is NextGen a bigger financial failure than fans wants to believe, or the mouse wants to let on???? Can the mess in Shanghai have anything to do with the company wanting to suddenly reduce costs??? Or is WDW management just so clueless and brain dead that, well, they know nothing else than cut cut cut???
There is more to this story... Coming soon....
In my case I am not playing defense. I am simply stating my opinion. However, I guess my opinion does not matter since you seem to know it all already.
You know, I came back to these boards recently after being absent for a while and noticed how quiet these boards are in comparison to when I first joined in 2012 and now I think I might know why. Because opinions are beaten down by know it all attitudes.
BrerGnat
02-14-2016, 08:45 PM
Not a true statement. We always enjoy these attractions, and we're not alone.
I didn't mean in general, I meant between the hours of 7-9pm.
goofy for pluto
02-14-2016, 09:41 PM
In my case I am not playing defense. I am simply stating my opinion. However, I guess my opinion does not matter since you seem to know it all already.
You know, I came back to these boards recently after being absent for a while and noticed how quiet these boards are in comparison to when I first joined in 2012 and now I think I might know why. Because opinions are beaten down by know it all attitudes.
The reason the boards are quiet is because most everyone is fed up with the experience they are having when visiting the parks. Disney has done nothing to keep up with the ever expanding crowds. Closing attraction after attraction leaving guests with much less to do while visiting. When they do announce something new it is literally years away or has taken years to complete. After you are on here awhile longer you will realize Disney Freak does know what is going on and is not afraid to express what most of us know to be true. That Disney vacation we all fell in love with is gone, most of us still have hope that it will get better but with so many bad dining reviews, closures, and shoulder to shoulder crowds, the magic is harder and harder to find and all while with Disney asking us to pay more and more money for a less than magical vacation.
In my case I am not playing defense. I am simply stating my opinion. However, I guess my opinion does not matter since you seem to know it all already.
You know, I came back to these boards recently after being absent for a while and noticed how quiet these boards are in comparison to when I first joined in 2012 and now I think I might know why. Because opinions are beaten down by know it all attitudes.
By nature and by name - this is a discussion board. If someone disagrees with your opinion, are they a know it all? I just don't understand. You might be right, but so might the other side. Right now, cost cutting seems to be all that matters. And from what I can tell, park attendance isn't sliding, it's pretty much busy all year round.
That said, one can hope it's only temporary but there are many here that are counting the trends and expecting things to continue. I certainly hope that's not the case.
And another reason things are quiet - Facebook has pretty much ruined the internet and many discussion communities.
There, I said it....
DizneyFreak2002
02-14-2016, 11:19 PM
BTW kind of flew under the radar here, unless I missed it in one of Jason's updates... The water parks have also had their hours cut dramatically... Opening later, closing earlier... I'm sure the mouse defenders will say it is winter... Funny, they didn't open later or close earlier any winter prior to this year...
More cuts to come... WDW just gets more and more magical!!!!!
DizneyFreak2002
02-14-2016, 11:28 PM
In my case I am not playing defense. I am simply stating my opinion. However, I guess my opinion does not matter since you seem to know it all already.
You know, I came back to these boards recently after being absent for a while and noticed how quiet these boards are in comparison to when I first joined in 2012 and now I think I might know why. Because opinions are beaten down by know it all attitudes.
You are welcome to state your opinions... But also realize, no matter what people say, opinions CAN be wrong... This isn't a cut because of lower attendance... Attendance hasn't been higher... How do I know this? 1) I talk to people who know and 2) well, Disney just announced this the other day... This is simply a cost cutting measure, nothing more, nothing less...
When I know something to be true, and I vet the info, yes I post with confidence that I know what I am talking about... If I cannot vet info, but it comes from someone or somewhere reliable, I'll post it, but I tend to post it as simply a rumor until I can say otherwise... People here know this about me... You will too, over time... Trust me, I'm far from a know it all...
And others have already told you why the boards are inactive... Nothing to talk about... And a lot of Disney fans don't want to come here and post the negativity we have been getting from WDW over the last, say 15-20 years... Many Disney fans have finally started getting sick and tired of being nickled and dimed by a slimey CEO and a greedy corporation... Though they been nickled and dimed for a while now, many people are finally getting sick of it... That is why you don't see the boards being that active... We'll check back in 2017 when Avatar opens, and 2020 when (IF) Star Wars land is open by then... You'll see very active boards then... I guarantee!!!!
gratuspater
02-15-2016, 10:40 AM
No doubt, the value for your dollar, diminishes every year at Disney. But the ONLY thing Disney execs. would take sight of, is a deliberate/announced boycott of going to Disney. Only by standing together and not going to Disney, will they feel the collective economic impact, of some of their used to be biggest fans. There are boycott Disney pages setup, to address Disney outsourcing work. Are there any to boycott Disney trips, to address fan concerns of overcrowding? I am sure Disney keeps an eye on any such pages.
Stu29573
02-15-2016, 11:07 AM
The reason the boards are quiet is because most everyone is fed up with the experience they are having when visiting the parks. Disney has done nothing to keep up with the ever expanding crowds. Closing attraction after attraction leaving guests with much less to do while visiting. When they do announce something new it is literally years away or has taken years to complete. After you are on here awhile longer you will realize Disney Freak does know what is going on and is not afraid to express what most of us know to be true. That Disney vacation we all fell in love with is gone, most of us still have hope that it will get better but with so many bad dining reviews, closures, and shoulder to shoulder crowds, the magic is harder and harder to find and all while with Disney asking us to pay more and more money for a less than magical vacation.
Very well said!
Goofy4TheWorld
02-15-2016, 11:12 AM
...And another reason things are quiet - Facebook has pretty much ruined the internet and many discussion communities.
There, I said it....
Reading this post from the Chairman was a somber moment for me. For over a year my wife has been coming to me with thing after thing (that I didn't know about) that she has read on Facebook (mostly).
Modern social media (Facebook/Twitter) has left me behind, and definitely created a vacuum as it has grown (and dominated) how information is shared. Facebook is useless for historical or long-term use of information, it's only good for the here-and-now news flash of the day, but it's what the World Wide Web seems to be all about anymore.
:(
baldburke
02-15-2016, 12:51 PM
So rather than bashing Disney, why not start your own Universal-COT where you can laud all the wonders of Universal? Disney is no different than any other corporation, including Comcast - parent of Universal, in that they will do what's best for the shareholder. It is indeed a problem for our modern economy that so much value is place on the shareholder as opposed to the employee or the consumer. Maybe our next president will figure it out, but we are free market system and right now society values the shareholder over the other two components (employee and consumer). If your perceived value for your dollar isn't meeting your expectations then by all means spend it elsewhere! However there is a difference between constructive criticism and outright disgust as you've shown time and time again.
Tekneek
02-15-2016, 01:32 PM
Many former Disney diehards are spending their time and money elsewhere. Very few of the people I used to discuss Disney with over the years have maintained their "Disney time" at former levels and almost all have dramatically decreased it. By all accounts, attendance is up, but I don't know who is driving those numbers anymore.
Maybe they should just pull a curtain at 7pm closing off the breezeway between the already completely empty Innoventions West and Starbucks.
"Move along folks, there is nothing to see or do here. Buses are through the gate and to your left..." :shake:
Poor Future World.
If your perceived value for your dollar isn't meeting your expectations then by all means spend it elsewhere! However there is a difference between constructive criticism and outright disgust as you've shown time and time again.
:exactly:
DizneyFreak2002
02-15-2016, 03:52 PM
So rather than bashing Disney, why not start your own Universal-COT where you can laud all the wonders of Universal? Disney is no different than any other corporation, including Comcast - parent of Universal, in that they will do what's best for the shareholder. It is indeed a problem for our modern economy that so much value is place on the shareholder as opposed to the employee or the consumer. Maybe our next president will figure it out, but we are free market system and right now society values the shareholder over the other two components (employee and consumer). If your perceived value for your dollar isn't meeting your expectations then by all means spend it elsewhere! However there is a difference between constructive criticism and outright disgust as you've shown time and time again.
Perfect example of what I have said in the past about people who cannot accept criticism of Disney... Perfect example... Thank you for proving my point...
More people should show disgust for the way they are being treated by WDW management.. But some people are just so blind they cannot see...
Oh and the whole tossing in Universal thing is so silly anymore... If you haven't noticed, we have a Universal section on these boards... And you will find people who find fault with Universal too... There is plenty... But we are talking WDW here, so nice way to try to change the subject..
Anyway, there are now character meet and greets being cut... And food items being cut as well... The cutting continues!!!!!!
MNNHFLTX
02-15-2016, 05:04 PM
Perfect example of what I have said in the past about people who cannot accept criticism of Disney... Perfect example... Thank you for proving my point...
More people should show disgust for the way they are being treated by WDW management.. But some people are just so blind they cannot see...
I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in. :twocents:
DizneyFreak2002
02-15-2016, 06:59 PM
I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in. :twocents:
Normal people wouldn't and shouldn't mind other peoples' criticism of Disney, or Universal, or Apple, or whatever... But the issue is, not every fan is "normal"... Some take their love of the brand too seriously... as if their life depends on the success of one brand and a failure of the other... And yes, those fans, and consumers in general, are blind... Blinded by their undying love of something... We can call these people closed minded or whatever... They are what they are... And if they cannot tolerate or handle criticism, then they have options.... They can stay out of the treads here on a discussion board, or they can block the member they don't like... Instead they choose to post nonsense, throw threads off topic, make insane rantings about competitors, try to silence those who dare not see their most beloved brand as perfect, and when things are turned on them, they whine... It isn't just here... It is less of an issue here than it is on other sites (thankfully), but it exists... Consumers are blind... We all are... It isn't bullying when someone says another is too blind to see the truth... it is a fact, a true statement... It is like that in politics, religion, finances, and yes theme park fandoms...
But anyway, back to the topic at hand, no more thread derailments!!!
These cuts are due to, well, now that the cat is out of the bag elsewhere on the net, Shanghai being a mess And cause Paris is sinking...
Ready for the cuts??? Operating hours will be further reduced... CMs are being reduced... Overtime reduced or suspended... Things are just starting... WDW is in for a bumpy ride...
The cuts are draconian... These are cuts that haven't been seen on this level since, probably 2001, and there was a major reason for that (I think it goes without saying what caused it)...
This just screams mismanagement... Shanghai is a disaster... Financially speaking... Paris is tanking... HARD.... Though recent events in Paris could have something to do with it, but not all of it... Paris was tanking before their terrorist attacks several weeks ago....
So record quarter earnings mean absolutely NOTHING... Management is so inept, they are now punishing other areas (WDW) cause they mismanaged Shanghai and have no idea how to fix or handle Paris...
More to come....
WiltonJohn
02-15-2016, 07:13 PM
I don't mind criticism of Disney; heck, I dish plenty of it out these days. But see, I always have trouble with these types of "drink the Kool-aid" statements. There's nothing wrong with critical remarks, but when they are made with the insinuation that others are too ignorant or "blind" to see the truth--well, it's a bit like bullying to me. So please, share your information and your opinions, but please respect other posters' right to do the same (without ridicule). No one should be afraid to state their opinions about the state of the parks, good or bad. That's where the discussion part of the boards comes in. :twocents:
Thank you for finally addressing this. Agree 110% with the sentiment.
best,
.............john
Normal people wouldn't and shouldn't mind other peoples' criticism of Disney, or Universal, or Apple, or whatever... But the issue is, not every fan is "normal"... Some take their love of the brand too seriously... as if their life depends on the success of one brand and a failure of the other... And yes, those fans, and consumers in general, are blind... Blinded by their undying love of something... We can call these people closed minded or whatever... They are what they are... And if they cannot tolerate or handle criticism, then they have options.... They can stay out of the treads here on a discussion board, or they can block the member they don't like... Instead they choose to post nonsense, throw threads off topic, make insane rantings about competitors, try to silence those who dare not see their most beloved brand as perfect, and when things are turned on them, they whine... It isn't just here... It is less of an issue here than it is on other sites (thankfully), but it exists... Consumers are blind... We all are... It isn't bullying when someone says another is too blind to see the truth... it is a fact, a true statement... It is like that in politics, religion, finances, and yes theme park fandoms...
But anyway, back to the topic at hand, no more thread derailments!!!....
In my opinion, "normal" people don't have such a negative outlook and negative view of people who don't agree with them. I'm sure you don't agree with me seeing as we have differing views but anyway I'll just agree to disagree here and I'm done with this thread.
Terra
02-16-2016, 04:27 AM
In my opinion, "normal" people don't have such a negative outlook and negative view of people who don't agree with them. I'm sure you don't agree with me seeing as we have differing views but anyway I'll just agree to disagree here and I'm done with this thread.
I have been watching this thread silently. To say the least I'm saddened by it. I agree with you j2k and a few others.
It's one thing to see a need for some changes but I am sorry DizneyFreak, you are not doing what you say you expect others to do. It seems you want people to accept your critique of WDW but suddenly everyone else is wrong if they disagree with you?
I know it is strongly worded but you are being rude and over the top.
I don't enjoy coming here much because of so much negativity.
However I guess you are right, there are others places on the net. I think I may even go ahead and start my own happy place. But it saddens me after nearly 13 years here those of us who choose to see the magical side seem to be told to hush up more or less and not share our opinions if they don't mesh with this movement to hate how Disney has become.
Peace. Hope you all find a little magic today.
1DisneyNut
02-16-2016, 08:21 AM
Well this thread quickly turned into a clash of perspectives. This thread by it's mere topic is and will be negative. If you popped in here with the rose colored glasses on, riding a unicorn hopping over rainbows into Disney utopia and posted with a "there's a great big beautiful tomorrow" type statement; you sort of brought it on yourself. lol Why can't we have a thread that is full of contempt and disgust for the direction WDW is headed without someone popping in and trying to hand out lollipops?
Back to the topic, I find it downright disgraceful that Disney was just bragging about how busy the parks are and record profits, etc. and then turn around and announce they will be closing attractions early and cutting back on labor costs. It just screams corporate greed and money grabbing. I know they are running a business but what about the kids that will not get to experience those attractions because they closed them early. I mean seriously, with that many people paying to get in the park every day at high ticket pricing and they can't pay a couple of people $8 or $10 an hour or whatever low wage they pay, to run the attraction for 2 hours. What would it cost, $50 to $100? In my mind, it would be worth every penny of $100 to potentially bring a little magic to a few more kids each day. How are we as guests supposed to be able to keep up with all these random attraction hours? We already have enough going on just trying to wade through all the FP+, ADR's and other nonsense.
Agree with some here the criticism is ok (and at least in my mind - valid) but the way you take personal anyone who disagrees with you Bobby is disturbing and really needs to stop.
Now, to everyone else...
Look, I've been going since 1976 - so I have a lot of perspective. The last time I saw this kind of disregard for the parks was right before there was almost a takeover and split up of the company - which eventually lead to Eisner coming into power. Great book called Storming the Magic Kingdom: Wall Street, The Raiders and the Battle for Disney - by John Taylor ( Amazon has it from 1 cent http://amzn.to/1okIEhE )
I am hopeful that things like the Star Wars Land and Pandora additions to the park will start to turn the tide but right now, it's hard to see that far out. All I see is increasing prices and declining value - and that makes me, a super long time visitor sad. Especially the direction of my favorite Epcot which is a shell of it's former self. Sad to the point where (as others have said), we're going elsewhere for now. I don't feel like I've left the magic, I feel like the magic has left me. And it's not just me, it's friends, family and co-workers I talk to as well.
Now, stepping back - I am totally and completely certain that much of what many of us see as decline, the average park goer doesn't see much at all. In fact, when cuts are implemented, I'm sure it's done with a thought to what effects park operations.
However, I don't want Disney to be that kind of company. I want them to be what they show on their commercials - the one that exceeds expectations and goes the extra mile. That values their guests above profit (ok, that may be a bit too far) - but you get the idea. I want it to be everything that Walt dreamed it could be.
That 92 members have read this thread to date shows me - people DO care and want things to improve. I could go on much longer - but I'll just say this...
DISNEY CAN DO BETTER.
Without vocalizing our collective displeasure, as the thread title says, the cuts will keep on coming - but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Be kind to your fellow member and respect them like you are speaking in person.
As Stephen R. Covey said in the 7 habits of highly effective people - SEEK FIRST TO UNDERSTAND, THEN to be understood.
Keep it civil. This is an important topic that needs to be discussed. I don't want to have to shut it down because a few people on both sides can't keep their emotions in check.
goofy for pluto
02-16-2016, 10:07 AM
I just read a thread from 2012 called Are these the "Dark Days" of Disney World? It is an interesting read as to how much it mirrors what is being posted in 2016.
It concerns me that WDW expects us as guests to plan our vacation so far out when we have no way of knowing if that ride we planned our day around will actually be operational that day,if the weather will cooperate with our plans or if we will even be hungry for that $200 meal that we have committed our vacation dollars to. The whole concept seems to set the bar so high that our expectations can almost never be met.
waymickey
02-16-2016, 11:48 AM
Disney also made changes at The resorts namely Port Orleans riverside and french quarter.
From another website-Several new "Proprietor" roles have been created, which are an amalgamated department manager role covering more than one traditional line of business, Where this has caused some positions to disappear (such as in Food & Beverage, Recreation and Merchandising) those staff have been redeployed as Duty Managers at different resorts and there have been no enforced job losses - although at least one retiree who oversaw Food & Beverage across multiple Sassagoula area resorts has not been replaced. A few hourly positions have been lost or reorganized too - such as the roving iPad-wielding additional check in staff - but those CMs have been rotated into other roles within the same departments.
I think this will be happening other places as well
BrerGnat
02-16-2016, 11:57 AM
It is possible (and probably good) to love something and be critical of it at the same time. I feel that way about Disney Parks very often. I absolutely LOVE Disneyland. Love everything about it. However, I am also getting increasingly irritated with the crowding situation there and Disney's apparent lack of concern for how it affects the guest experience. They keep trying to pack more and more people in, offering completely unnecessary ticket specials to lure in more and more locals (who they block out on the APs on the weekends because of crowds). Just when the holiday crowds have died down, they do something to boost attendance even more. This drives me crazy. This feels like straight up greed. But, that doesn't mean I don't still enjoy going, or I don't have a great time every visit with my family. It's a love/hate thing.
Here, at Epcot, in particular, we have the opposite situation. There is so little to do, but rather than entice people to come with new things (which at least Disneyland is doing) they are cutting further back on the things offered, without realizing that all those people in the park now have even LESS options. It's completely backwards. If a ride isn't popular, or people aren't spending money in your shops and you're losing money on running those things, maybe think about how to make them BETTER? Don't just shut the doors and give up. That's where I see the biggest issue here. That said, I still LOVE Epcot. And there is nothing wrong with feeling both ways.
For the time being, we are sticking with Disneyland. Luckily we live a stone's throw away and so can time our visits to avoid huge crowd times. I haven't felt like returning to WDW for quite some time. And that is a new feeling for me. I'm willing to give them some time to work on the current projects and am hopeful that Epcot is next in line to receive some love. When they set out to completely overhaul a park, they have the ability to do amazing things. Here's hoping.
Speedy1998
02-16-2016, 12:31 PM
For a company that just made more money last quarter than ever before, you'd never know it with WDW... With the way cuts are being made left and right in WDW, you'd think WDW was going out of business... But when money is all that matters, and guest satisfaction means nothing anymore, do you really expect anything else?
The only problem I have with this statement, is that companies usually make decisions like these based on forecast, not what happened in the past. Quite frankly, just based on the complaints I have seen on this discussion board in the last few weeks, it would not surprise me if Disney is forecasting a horrible year for the Parks and Resorts division.
DizneyRox
02-16-2016, 01:37 PM
I keep waiting for Disney to do something to get me back. And every time, it seems they just push me further and further out. We're doing two cruises this year, been enjoying them so much. I've been going for years like many others and agree, it's probably easier to spot the cuts than maybe first time visitors, however I know quite a few people that have recently come back from trips of a lifetime and have no desire to go back; wasn't magical (or as magical as they expected). So I don't think it's just the vets that are seeing the wrong...
And while I don't have an MBA, I just don't get the raise prices upon a weak forecast . You can call it cuts, restructuring, etc. It's a price increase. Less for more... We'll be looking at a ticket increase soon enough, and shorter hours are a disguise for a ticket price increase. So we're looking at at least two ticket increases for 2016, probably more...
Wayne
02-16-2016, 02:08 PM
If you are right, Speedy, that these cuts might be based on forecasts, then Disney will have brought it on themselves. Like John, my history with Walt Disney World goes back to the mid 70's. The Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center (beginning in 1982) were the best of the best and I would visit at least once per year and often twice to be lost in the magic. But even then, I can't recall the Odyssey Restaurant being open much after 1983 or so.
My wife and I made our last visit in 2004 when our daughter was 10. By then, Future World was a shell of itself, we really had no interest in the Studios and, at the time, Animal Kingdom was, at best, a half-day park. And everything was at premium price. We decided as a family that we wanted our memories of Disney to be of when it was truly a magical place. And so, we put our money elsewhere and we have not regretted it.
I've been coming to these boards since 2002, all the while wishing that I would hear good news that might make me want to return. I've been disappointed because I feel strongly that the cutbacks over the years have hurt the show more than anything. All the while, the dreamers have given way to the suits who not only have no clue, but are only invested as far as their golden parachutes and stock options will take them.
One day I hope to return. But it will not be to a place where vacation is more of a job and a hassle than relaxation and fun.
JerseyDad
02-16-2016, 02:34 PM
The only one on that list that surprises me is the Mouse Gear cut. The rest are likely because NO ONE is going on those attractions anyway. Might as well shut them down while they figure out what the heck they are going to do to improve Epcot.
.....well ....I'd hate to think that I'm the only person in the Universe that loves ...and goes on "Living With The Land". I don't see it as needing "improvement" ....only a tweak here and there. The educational aspects of Disney fascinate the heck out of me.
Terra
02-16-2016, 03:19 PM
Agree with some here the criticism is ok (and at least in my mind - valid) but the way you take personal anyone who disagrees with you Bobby is disturbing and really needs to stop.
Now, to everyone else...
Look, I've been going since 1976 - so I have a lot of perspective. The last time I saw this kind of disregard for the parks was right before there was almost a takeover and split up of the company - which eventually lead to Eisner coming into power. Great book called Storming the Magic Kingdom: Wall Street, The Raiders and the Battle for Disney - by John Taylor ( Amazon has it from 1 cent http://amzn.to/1okIEhE )
I am hopeful that things like the Star Wars Land and Pandora additions to the park will start to turn the tide but right now, it's hard to see that far out. All I see is increasing prices and declining value - and that makes me, a super long time visitor sad. Especially the direction of my favorite Epcot which is a shell of it's former self. Sad to the point where (as others have said), we're going elsewhere for now. I don't feel like I've left the magic, I feel like the magic has left me. And it's not just me, it's friends, family and co-workers I talk to as well.
Now, stepping back - I am totally and completely certain that much of what many of us see as decline, the average park goer doesn't see much at all. In fact, when cuts are implemented, I'm sure it's done with a thought to what effects park operations.
However, I don't want Disney to be that kind of company. I want them to be what they show on their commercials - the one that exceeds expectations and goes the extra mile. That values their guests above profit (ok, that may be a bit too far) - but you get the idea. I want it to be everything that Walt dreamed it could be.
That 92 members have read this thread to date shows me - people DO care and want things to improve. I could go on much longer - but I'll just say this...
DISNEY CAN DO BETTER.
Without vocalizing our collective displeasure, as the thread title says, the cuts will keep on coming - but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Be kind to your fellow member and respect them like you are speaking in person.
As Stephen R. Covey said in the 7 habits of highly effective people - SEEK FIRST TO UNDERSTAND, THEN to be understood.
Keep it civil. This is an important topic that needs to be discussed. I don't want to have to shut it down because a few people on both sides can't keep their emotions in check.
Thank you John :mickey:
I don't mind disagreeing [though I DO see quite a few points], but it's in the presentation ;) Being nice to our fellow members as you said.
I really hope SW Land helps DS. I've never been a fan myself of DS, so I'm hoping I'll find a new love for it.
I have come to adore AK, only after the birth of my sons and seeing it through their eyes over the years. I think the new Rivers of Light and Pandora should be a wonderful attraction to enhance a park already packed with so much to learn and do IMHO :)
WiltonJohn
02-16-2016, 03:23 PM
Another positive vote here for "Living with the Land".
best,
...............john
.....well ....I'd hate to think that I'm the only person in the Universe that loves ...and goes on "Living With The Land". I don't see it as needing "improvement" ....only a tweak here and there. The educational aspects of Disney fascinate the heck out of me.
I like the Land too - even have taken the behind the seeds tour. That said, even that ride could use some TLC. Disappointed they took the human element out of it but that aside, the films in the beginning are from the 1980's and really need updating badly. How hard would that be to do? Show us what's going on in the 2016 and beyond agriculture wise. Surely there has been advancements since the time when Duran Duran ruled the charts! Why not also incorporate some new growing methods as well during the ride?
Finally, the fish tanks that have a single shrimp in them or a single eel where they used to be filled are kind of bad show in my opinion. Looking at huge Plexiglas tubes with one thing in them just isn't entertaining.
Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
Polynesian Dweller
02-16-2016, 04:01 PM
The real reason for the cuts has been in the press and on many other boards. It's cost overruns at Shanghai and losses at Disneyland Paris. The company's Parks division has to find cost savings to cope with these issues. Typical of most companies, all parts of a division have to help with the bottom line when one part of the division falters. This isn't a WDW management in their infinite wisdom type decision it's above them at corporate level. Learn the facts before you bash.
Terra
02-16-2016, 04:17 PM
Another positive vote here for "Living with the Land".
best,
...............john
I like the Land too - even have taken the behind the seeds tour. That said, even that ride could use some TLC. Disappointed they took the human element out of it but that aside, the films in the beginning are from the 1980's and really need updating badly. How hard would that be to do? Show us what's going on in the 2016 and beyond agriculture wise. Surely there has been advancements since the time when Duran Duran ruled the charts! Why not also incorporate some new growing methods as well during the ride?
Finally, the fish tanks that have a single shrimp in them or a single eel where they used to be filled are kind of bad show in my opinion. Looking at huge Plexiglas tubes with one thing in them just isn't entertaining.
Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
And another vote for LwtL! It's one of my favorites!
I do agree that I miss the human guides though, and they would often answer questions!
I would love to see some updating to see what has changed in the realm of food growth and the movement to become more "clean eating".
barnaby
02-16-2016, 04:33 PM
Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
Kinda like some people in this thread. They could really use some love. :)
DizneyFreak2002
02-16-2016, 05:11 PM
The only problem I have with this statement, is that companies usually make decisions like these based on forecast, not what happened in the past. Quite frankly, just based on the complaints I have seen on this discussion board in the last few weeks, it would not surprise me if Disney is forecasting a horrible year for the Parks and Resorts division.
Thing is though, it has nothing to do with any forecasts in attendance... it is because of what I posted last night... Cost over runs... Total mismanagement from every level...
But like Wayne said, even it was forecasts, then it would be Disney management's fault for a sudden decrease in record attendance.... But, that isn't the case...
JerseyDad
02-16-2016, 09:25 PM
I like the Land too - even have taken the behind the seeds tour. That said, even that ride could use some TLC. Disappointed they took the human element out of it but that aside, the films in the beginning are from the 1980's and really need updating badly. How hard would that be to do? Show us what's going on in the 2016 and beyond agriculture wise. Surely there has been advancements since the time when Duran Duran ruled the charts! Why not also incorporate some new growing methods as well during the ride?
Finally, the fish tanks that have a single shrimp in them or a single eel where they used to be filled are kind of bad show in my opinion. Looking at huge Plexiglas tubes with one thing in them just isn't entertaining.
Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
....perhaps ...just maybe ....your "empty tank" & "empty tubes" experience was because you visited "Living With The Land" ......right before resort .....dinner time ...on 'seafood night' .... ;)
ck32250
02-16-2016, 10:59 PM
You can't have it both ways...
Lower Prices= more crowds
Better Park amenities= more crowds.
Only when attendance drops will we see "deals". This is with parks, dining, retail, and resorts.
Expansion is the only winner I see for both sides which they are doing a lot of.
Then we can complain it's too big or too much traffic.
DizneyRox
02-17-2016, 06:22 AM
Finally, the fish tanks that have a single shrimp in them or a single eel where they used to be filled are kind of bad show in my opinion. Looking at huge Plexiglas tubes with one thing in them just isn't entertaining.
Overall, still like the ride, but as with other things in Epcot, it really could use some love.
...perhaps ...just maybe ....your "empty tank" & "empty tubes" experience was because you visited "Living With The Land" ......right before resort .....dinner time ...on 'seafood night' .... ;)
Actually, the single shrimp tanks are because those are freshwater shrimp and they are aggressive and will fight if there are more than one. But, would be nice to actually learn that on the ride (Oh my education?!?!) instead of riding past what appear to be empty tanks, so point taken...
1DisneyNut
02-17-2016, 08:14 AM
Actually, the single shrimp tanks are because those are freshwater shrimp and they are aggressive and will fight if there are more than one. But, would be nice to actually learn that on the ride (Oh my education?!?!) instead of riding past what appear to be empty tanks, so point taken...
That is one of those things that the live tour guides used to mention when they were doing the commentary on the boats instead of the pre-recorded commentary we have now. I enjoyed Living with the Land much more when they had the live tour guides on the boats. That is another cut back to save money that drives me nuts.
Maybe it would be better to put something else in there instead of the Shrimp then...
Terra
02-17-2016, 10:12 AM
Interesting. I didn't remember that about the freshwater shrimp!
They could really make it nice by adding some tropical fish possibly.
A dumb question now. I've been going to WDW since 2000, basically monthly.
But the song "Listen to the Land", I don't remember it. Was it associated with the attraction? Or the entire pavilion? I love that song!
BrerGnat
02-17-2016, 10:16 AM
Interesting. I didn't remember that about the freshwater shrimp!
They could really make it nice by adding some tropical fish possibly.
A dumb question now. I've been going to WDW since 2000, basically monthly.
But the song "Listen to the Land", I don't remember it. Was it associated with the attraction? Or the entire pavilion? I love that song!
But you can't serve tropical fish for dinner... ;)
Terra
02-17-2016, 10:36 AM
But you can't serve tropical fish for dinner... ;)
LOL true. I need to do the Behind the Seeds tour again. It's been about 13 years since I've done it.
Wayne
02-17-2016, 10:39 AM
A dumb question now. I've been going to WDW since 2000, basically monthly.
But the song "Listen to the Land", I don't remember it. Was it associated with the attraction? Or the entire pavilion? I love that song!
Listen to the Land was the original name of the boat ride and the theme song of that ride.
dnickels
02-17-2016, 10:41 AM
Maybe it would be better to put something else in there instead of the Shrimp then...
Just within the last 2-3 weeks they have put some very young tilapia in one of the tanks. It's a definite improvement over the single shrimp or eel that most guests rarely noticed.
MizMissy
02-17-2016, 11:07 AM
I haven't felt like returning to WDW for quite some time. And that is a new feeling for me. I'm willing to give them some time to work on the current projects and am hopeful that Epcot is next in line to receive some love. When they set out to completely overhaul a park, they have the ability to do amazing things. Here's hoping.
This. Completely. We just spent a 4 full park days at Universal. It was an easy, great time. When planning our trip, my kids asked to spend one day at WDW, but I said no. And, I AM the huge Disney fan in our family. However, I knew it would be a wasted day because we had not planned months out with FPs and would spend most of the day standing in line. Also, even though it has been 6 years since we were last at WDW, there really isn't anything new to see (other than Mine Train ride at MK, but see my first statement about no FP and standing in line).
Hammer
02-17-2016, 01:47 PM
The change in the Mousegears hours is the only one I question. I suspect that will change as we get closer to summer travel season.
I mentioned in a post I made in Theme Parks about the Flower and Garden festival that Disney management needs to strike up some new sponsorship deals. That’s why Flower and Garden has lesser name performing acts as well as performances and seminars only on weekends; they lost HGTV as a sponsor. Food and Wine has a lot more activities because that festival is sponsored by Chase.
You can go back to the days of Walt Disney running the company and see how money from sponsorship was one of the things he used to keep the park updated. The business model for Epcot Future World relied heavily on sponsors for all pavilions. It isn’t as easy to find sponsors as it used to be, but it can be done. I read a great article earlier this year about possible companies that could sponsor Epcot pavilions. I didn’t agree with all of the suggestions, but some I thought were really good ideas. I especially liked the idea of Tesla becoming the sponsor of the Universe of Energy. Totally redo the ride so it doesn’t focus on fossil fuels (which made sense when ExxonMobil was the sponsor, but is very outdated thinking) and highlight all of the new energy sources being used around the world.
I still enjoy my trips to WDW, but rides are not a primary focus for me or anyone in my family. We enjoy rides, but we like being able to do many of the other activities at Disney or just taking some time to relax and do absolutely nothing. A friend of mine just got back from her yearly trip to WDW with her son for his birthday. It also allows her to spend time with her son after her busy season at work (she is a merchandising manager at Macy’s). I was a little nervous as they stayed at Wilderness Lodge as they have every year and I know there is a lot of construction going on. She said they had a blast. She saw the construction, but took the view that these things have to happen at some point. There isn’t a time when no one would be inconvenienced.
AgentC
02-17-2016, 02:56 PM
LOL true. I need to do the Behind the Seeds tour again. It's been about 13 years since I've done it.
I did it last month with my 7 & 10 year olds. We really enjoyed it. And yes we were told the same story about mean shrimp. :)
dlpmikki
02-18-2016, 04:55 AM
Disneyland Paris has been fighting for survival from day one because the then management team got over excited and built all the hotels before opening day rather than build up gradually. It's been the most visited theme park in Europe for years but still struggles. I visited HK Disneyland in September and it was almost empty (I took pictures at about 1pm looking both ways down main street and the only person in sight was the balloon seller.) Hong Kong generally has seen a huge drop in Chinese business because of the downturn (or lack of constant increase) in China. If China turns around an overspend on Shanghai probably won't be too big an issue but if the Chinese stop spending at home as well as away it will be mega bad news. We haven't been in a WDW park since 2014 so it will be interesting to see what it is like and whether we will notice the cuts. We did Disneyland last year and loved that. Mousegear opening does seem odd but maybe their stats show people are not buying early? I'm hearing positive things about Disney Springs now so I shall be interested to see that. I do recall a lot of dissatisfaction from folks while all the changes were happening. I think a lot of us may question how and where they do the cost cutting but it is certainly something that seems to be part of modern life in Disney and elsewhere.
Altair
02-18-2016, 05:46 AM
And yes we were told the same story about mean shrimp. :)
So Fresh Water Shrimp are not the best choice for fish farming, while Talapia are since they survive quite well in very over crowded conditions.
Ok, back to the thread - from the Inquisitr this morning...
Domestic Disney Parks Reportedly Suffering Financial Issues Due To Shanghai Disneyland
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2801921/domestic-disney-parks-reportedly-suffering-financial-issues-due-to-shanghai-disneyland/#6ZAT0XQwl6WlwdIh.99
Shanghai Disneyland is currently scheduled to open in June of this year, and it will be the first mainland China Disney resort. Right now, the gigantic park is hoping for that opening, but some financial issues and delays may cause that to be pushed back a bit. Well, reports are now coming out that the amount of money being spent to build Shanghai Disneyland are causing financial issues at domestic parks, Walt Disney World (http://www.inquisitr.com/2788958/walt-disney-world-disneyland-ticket-price-increases-likely-coming-soon-as-universal-studios-raises-theirs/) and Disneyland.
An unconfirmed report from WDWNT states that Shanghai Disneyland is so far (http://wdwnt.com/blog/2016/02/breaking-shanghai-disney-puts-financial-strangle-hold-on-domestic-disney-parks/) over budget and behind schedule that money is most likely going to come from cost-cutting measures at the domestic theme parks.
and...
Disney World painters laid off amid other reports of cost controls -
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-layoffs-hours-cut-20160216-story.html
Stu29573
02-18-2016, 02:00 PM
So by expanding into countries were most of us will never go, the Lame-Brain Trust at Disney is wrecking their own golden goose. Quite frankly, I'm at the point where I just think they should get what they deserve. Way to kill Walt's dream, idiots.
Stickey
02-18-2016, 03:24 PM
John, thank you for your perspective.
Clearly, the recent trend of focusing on the next quarterly financials instead of long-term growth objectives has led to a decrease in the value of a WDW vacation. The unique Disney goal of plussing the guest's experience has been disregarded. Damaging successful and profitable operations to compensate for the losses of the Shanghai venture is very foolish. The rising costs involved in a Disney vacation(resort, park tickets, food, etc.), along with crowding issues, represent a challenge to loyal Disney visitors and negatively impact the desire to return to WDW. However, this does not mean that the magic is gone. An aggressive campaign to barrage WDW management with the concerns of the many frequent WDW visitor's appears to be necessary. This action combined with an eventual dent in WDW and DL performance numbers may influence management's short-sighted policies.
Stu29573
02-18-2016, 04:28 PM
The Motley Fool came out with an article today that sums up the Disney management foolishness nicely. Look up "Disney World is Cutting Costs at the Worst Possible Time" for a grim, but realistic rundown of the situation. They point out that the cost cutting is likely to negatively impact the future of WDW and that customers will likely continue to look at Universal as an alternative. They point out "Comcast has seen Universal Orlando's attendance grow at a faster clip than Disney World for several years now." It's all the more alarming when you read the disclaimer at the end that states "Rick Munarriz (the author) owns shares of Walt Disney. The Motley Fool owns shares of and recommends Walt Disney."
dlpmikki
02-19-2016, 05:11 AM
I'm not sure building in Shanghai was a mistake. The Chinese seem to be as keen on Disney parks as the Japanese and Tokyo is still the most visited theme park in the world even if most of us will never visit it. Overdoing and overspending is another matter and something that Disney have got wrong in the past.
Park Hopper
02-19-2016, 10:08 AM
I think what threads like this do is illustrate the frustrations many of us who grew up with a love for Disney World now have. I know this is a completely simplistic and somewhat naive opinion, but to me Disney World is moving from a place that would just blow you away with service, innovation, and scale, to a money-grabbing entity. I am sure the money-grabbing was always there (I am not that naive), but they use to achieved it by putting their efforts into building and adding to the experience, making people want to come back again and again. The Parks sold themselves. At some point, their paradigm switched to taking those creative ideas to build the the parks to creating ways of taking every last penny from those that do visit. People will say that is just good business and others do it, and at some level I can appreciate that, but it now takes much of what seemed special about Disney (and how they touted themselves) away.
I hate to say it, but Universal seems to have adopted that Disney spirit of, 'if you build it great, people will come' and Disney is seeming more and more like a money grabbing business, like anyone else, that will react if it has to, but not lead. Again, my personal opinion, but I really think Disney is losing that special feel and moving toward just another theme park company. Still can be fun and great, but that special 'magic' or whatever that set them apart is becoming less and less.
Imagine what they could have done with all the money they spent on FP+. Now, they want us to get excited because they are expanding capacity of their popular rides. Here is a novel idea, why don't you add another E-ticket and increase the number of experiences customers can have, rather than simply increasing the capacity of something that already exists. I think we know the answer ($$$). Avatar sounds fun and I am looking forward to it - maybe it will help my attitude. Star Wars and Toy Storyland, or whatever, sound great to, but I think my kids will be college-aged before any of that will be completed. I could obviously go on and on....
gratuspater
02-19-2016, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=Stickey;2479018]John, thank you for your perspective.
However, this does not mean that the magic is gone. An aggressive campaign to barrage WDW management with the concerns of the many frequent WDW visitor's appears to be necessary. This action combined with an eventual dent in WDW and DL performance numbers may influence management's short-sighted policies.[/
I agree! But how do we get enough participants and then get all of the concerns to hit management at roughly the same time? And sorry if I didn't quote this correctly, I'm not quite sure how to do partial and multi quotes.
AndrewJackson
02-20-2016, 02:51 PM
Disney execs have been adjusting Epcot hours since it opened. For those of you who visited Epcot when it first opened, World Showcase and Future World all opened at 9:00 AM. If you were smart, you would head to World Showcase first, with no crowds. Believe it or not, I've waited in line for El Rio del Tiempo for over 60 minutes. Epcot later changed World Showcase opening to 11:00 AM.
I also remember when most of Future World closed at 7:00 PM. Then, as someone else mentioned, they started closing a few of the attractions at 9:00 PM.
They have been closing Imagination early for a while now. We were there in October, and my son wanted to visit Imagination on our way out at about 6:30, and it was closed. Honestly, Imagination reminds be of Caddy Appreciation Day in Caddyshack, when they let the caddies swim for 15 minutes. That would be a sufficient time for Imagination to be open.
All in all, when you consider the attractions that will have reduced operating hours, it makes you wonder if they will ever make an investment in Epcot and fix it. I guess Disney Execs always want a half-day park. Now that they are investing in HS and AK, Epcot will be the half-day park.
Regarding opinions, they CANNOT be wrong. If a statement is wrong, then it isn't an opinion, it's a theory or educated guess or hypothesis. So, unless THE GUY (or GAL) comes on the board and tells us why HE or SHE made the decision to reduce operating hours, we are all just spewing our theories - not opinions. (That's just my opinion.) ;)
AndrewJackson
02-20-2016, 06:01 PM
One other observation - Epcot is reducing the operating hours of a "Tier 1" attraction. In the word of Jim Lovell, "Houston, we have a problem."
Tekneek
02-21-2016, 03:09 PM
One other observation - Epcot is reducing the operating hours of a "Tier 1" attraction. In the word of Jim Lovell, "Houston, we have a problem."
Isn't there only one "Tier 1" attraction now? With Maelstrom gone and Soarin' closed for refurbishment? Or did they promote something from a lower tier?
AndrewJackson
02-21-2016, 07:45 PM
Isn't there only one "Tier 1" attraction now? With Maelstrom gone and Soarin' closed for refurbishment? Or did they promote something from a lower tier?
Test Track, Illuminations, Living with the Land, and Mission:Space are all Tier 1 attractions.
MrPeetrie
02-21-2016, 08:30 PM
ParkHopper has summed up my feelings perfectly. And if you look at my signature, you can see a severe drop-off in our visits. At one point, we frequented Disney two or three times a year (from Pittsburgh.) Now, it's just once every two or three years. Last trip left us cold. First time I can remember feeling more like cattle than a guest. (Never actually felt like a guest at all. Just a paying customer.)
You see this model all the time in business: create a solid, financially stable foundation. Then, with incompetent (or greedy) people in place, bleed it dry for financial gain before paying customers get wise. Count on their loyalty to blind them at first. When things begin to sour, replace upper management and re-focus on what made company great originally. Unfortunately, those at the top will have already become filthy rich by then.
It's sad. Disney was the leader. Everyone chased them. Now, they're following suit. No trip in our future!
Tekneek
02-21-2016, 09:33 PM
Test Track, Illuminations, Living with the Land, and Mission:Space are all Tier 1 attractions.
Oh my, that is funny. That is...also kinda scammy.
Oh my, that is funny. That is...also kinda scammy.
Living w the Land should b Tier 1...its the only ride open in the Land...
ok so idk when I should go back. Ive been there a lot of times. but Universal is adding a lot..and Disney is kind of Froxen....when is my favorite park (Epcot) gonna make a comeback..Im gonna go to Disneyland in April (probably) since my GF hasnt been there and I have once..we like Disneyworld..but she is saying..Universal again.
RunDMV
02-22-2016, 07:33 AM
It's sad. Disney was the leader. Everyone chased them. Now, they're following suit. No trip in our future!
The one thing you don't see other parks copying is FP+. Even other Disney parks aren't copying it. From the public's point of view, it is overwhelmingly an abysmal failure. The Suits might like it in a bean counting sort of way, but you can't publicly call your visitors "guests" and privately consider them "beans" and think you can bridge the gap.
BrerGnat
02-22-2016, 10:11 AM
The one thing you don't see other parks copying is FP+. Even other Disney parks aren't copying it. From the public's point of view, it is overwhelmingly an abysmal failure. The Suits might like it in a bean counting sort of way, but you can't publicly call your visitors "guests" and privately consider them "beans" and think you can bridge the gap.
The worst part about FP+ is that Disney KNOWS it is a huge failure and they refuse to just pull the plug on it or modify it so that it works like the old system did (which they absolutely CAN do since it's just a basic programming change). They seem to have a real problem admitting defeat. I would respect the heck out of them if they admitted publicly that this version of FP+ is a failure and they realize that guests are not walking away happy, so they are going to change the system to a more user friendly version.
1DisneyNut
02-22-2016, 11:03 AM
The worst part about FP+ is that Disney KNOWS it is a huge failure and they refuse to just pull the plug on it or modify it so that it works like the old system did (which they absolutely CAN do since it's just a basic programming change). They seem to have a real problem admitting defeat. I would respect the heck out of them if they admitted publicly that this version of FP+ is a failure and they realize that guests are not walking away happy, so they are going to change the system to a more user friendly version.
That would be nice but we all know that the corporate types don't admit defeat or take blame. They deflect until it hits the fan and then they either quit or are fired and replaced by a new group with a "new vision." lol
Right now the parks are full of first time visitors due to all of the promotions Disney has been doing. At some point that will play out. We know long time repeat visitors have been increasingly cutting back on their visits. I know for a fact that they have noticed because up until about a year ago, I had only received one promotional pin code but in the last year I have received 4 and the literature mentioned something about us being past visitors and coming back. So there is no doubt in my mind that they have already realized that repeat customers aren't coming back.
Something that has crossed my mind recently is I wonder how much the DVC resales inventory has increased here lately. If things don't change soon, I would expect the market to get saturated with resales soon because people aren't going to want to keep dealing with a timeshare they really don't care to utilize anymore. That is the problem with long term timeshares and is exactly why I talked myself out of buying in when I took the tour back in 2008. I came close to buying but decided to go home and give it some thought for a couple of months. I decided not to buy because I didn't like the direction WDW was headed then and it turned out I was right and made the correct decision. I would have hated to have been stuck with a timeshare the past 4 years because it would have affected my decision process in vacationing elsewhere.
Stu29573
02-22-2016, 11:24 AM
The truly sad thing is that it didn't have to be this way. Disney had a infrastructure built that, even if only adequately maintained, would have continued to instill good will with their guests. However, they decided to go with the money-grab. Walt would have fired the "new blood" before their first meeting was over, and I'm not just talking about in the parks division. One thing ha would never do is compromise his vision. The new corporate types wouldn't know "vision" if it bit them in their backsides.
zoopop
02-22-2016, 11:38 AM
For the 1st time in a long time I have no desire to spend $ to go to Disney World.
I love Disney World and 'enjoyed' my last trip in Sept 2014 but like many have said the crowds, lack of attractions at Hollywood & Epcot, & Fast Pass Plus was a huge turn off to go back.
I would love to go back but I can't justify spending the $ while Hollywood & Epcot continue to have not much value. And reading this forum is alarming and I could see somewhat true.
We went to Disneyland in Sept 2015 and plan on going back in Dec 2017. Again the crowds were heavy but the $ went alot further to me and the lack of Fast Pass + gave us a more happy go luck feel.
DisneyGiant
02-22-2016, 02:30 PM
Cuts happen in every organization. For different reasons. I, myself, have survived at least 4-5 layoffs in my current position. Business is booming now & they are on a hiring spree!
Then gradually things go back to normal.
None of these cuts are making me change my mind about visiting my favorite place in the whole world. :) It helps that we're going at one of the busiest times of year, where I think they will need additional staff & longer hours......
If we all stop going en masse - there will be even more cuts.
What I do is - after each visit - I email guest relations & I give them my opinion - the good, the bad & the ugly. Every year, I get a phone call from them with their response to my concerns\observations.
I am a broken record when it comes to FP+ - we like that the room key, credit card & yes - even the fast passes are on it. We don't like being limited to only three (especially in the MK) and the fact that we have to choose them so far in advance (which is necessary for the more popular attractions).
I was told last year, that we would be given "a guide" to help with this process - I haven't heard from any yet though.
I should add a disclaimer - I am a Disney stock owner & have a vested interest in the stock doing well. Its one of the reasons I never go nuts when they raise prices or implement cost cutting measures - I indirectly benefit from it.......
Stu29573
02-22-2016, 03:02 PM
But the stock won't continue to do well if they can't understand what they are doing wrong. I also wrote them about our last trip and the big takeaway they got from it was apparently that I needed a couple of extra fp+ choices for our next trip (which I pointed out repeatedly that might not be for five more years). Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the effort, but they kinda missed the point...which was THERE IS NOTHING TO GET ME TO COME BACK FOR FIVE STINKIN' YEARS. And I'm hearing that from a ton of other people. I can't see how the stock prices are going to do well if most people feel like I do...
Park Hopper
02-22-2016, 04:13 PM
Cuts happen in every organization. For different reasons. I, myself, have survived at least 4-5 layoffs in my current position. Business is booming now & they are on a hiring spree!
Then gradually things go back to normal.
....
I think anyone that has been associated with private businesses since 2008 has been through the Lay-offs/hiring cycles. However, there is a big difference here in that Disney World is cutting back at a time when they are making massive profits and attendance is supposedly swelling. It would be far more understanding if profits had collapsed and no one was there. From most accounts Disney World is cutting back because of the Chinese Parks. So, some of those little touches that we have grown to love from Disney, like greeters welcoming you home when you get to your resort, painters who keep everything looking new and fresh, etc...are being dropped while Disney World profits and numbers are soaring.
It is just another sign of Disney becoming just another company.
Park Hopper
02-22-2016, 04:28 PM
I am a broken record when it comes to FP+ - we like that the room key, credit card & yes - even the fast passes are on it. We don't like being limited to only three (especially in the MK) and the fact that we have to choose them so far in advance (which is necessary for the more popular attractions).
I was told last year, that we would be given "a guide" to help with this process - I haven't heard from any yet though.
......
I think you are making the mistake of merging the Magicbands with FP+. Don't feel too bad about it because Disney wants us to think of them together :mickey:. However, the two should not have to be tied together. I have no issues with the Magic bands - I actually like them and think they are really convenient. In fact, other than those that have had issues with them not working properly, I think most people like them. However, my issues are with FP+, for many of the same reasons you list. Our opinions are actually pretty close on the subject.
I do think Disney tends to use the satisfaction with the Magicbands to make FP+look like people really like it. They could certainly go to a new system or back to the old one and integrate the Magicbands if they wanted - I would think that would be easy. But, then they would have to admit that FP+ was flawed.
AndrewJackson
02-22-2016, 06:46 PM
Oh my, that is funny. That is...also kinda scammy.
I was just provided clarification to an earlier question. I don't find any of those rides to be "Tier 1". The fact that they even had to tier rides to get FP+ to work, is in of itself admitting defeat.
By nature and by name - this is a discussion board. If someone disagrees with your opinion, are they a know it all? I just don't understand. You might be right, but so might the other side. Right now, cost cutting seems to be all that matters. And from what I can tell, park attendance isn't sliding, it's pretty much busy all year round.
That said, one can hope it's only temporary but there are many here that are counting the trends and expecting things to continue. I certainly hope that's not the case.
And another reason things are quiet - Facebook has pretty much ruined the internet and many discussion communities.
There, I said it....
OMG...now that is too funny! "Facebook Ruined The Internet" JY you need to make a shirt or magnet/vinyl of that statement.
#nofacepageforme
#notamemberandproudofit
Reading this post from the Chairman was a somber moment for me. For over a year my wife has been coming to me with thing after thing (that I didn't know about) that she has read on Facebook (mostly).
Modern social media (Facebook/Twitter) has left me behind, and definitely created a vacuum as it has grown (and dominated) how information is shared. Facebook is useless for historical or long-term use of information, it's only good for the here-and-now news flash of the day, but it's what the World Wide Web seems to be all about anymore.
:(
Meant to LIKE the post...clicked the wrong icon...sorry. I'm with ya!
TheVBs
02-23-2016, 01:53 PM
If failures in other areas are causing these cut backs, I guess I can understand that. Although, ideally, I would prefer that they cut their losses in unsuccessful areas before they diminish the experience of a very successful area.
We are every other year people. Our last trip was in Aug. 2015. I think I've posted enough here to show that I'm not put off by criticisms, and have offered a few myself. However, every one of our trips has been great and left us wanting to go back. FP+ certainly caused us some stress at first, but it worked for us. Hold on to your seats here, because I'm about to say something outrageous.... it even made our last couple of trips BETTER because we were able to get on rides that we have always passed on because we simply were not interested in standing in a very, very long stand by line.
Now, think carefully before telling me that I'm so Disney-smitten that I'm simply blind to any short comings. It is a huge peeve of mine when someone has the audacity to tell another person whether they have or haven't gotten value for their money in terms of a vacation. This is not a measurable thing. It is purely in the eye of the person parting with the $.
Do these reported cuts concern me? They do. If or when our enjoyment of a WDW trip is impacted to the point where we don't feel it was money well spent, I promise you we have a very long wish list of destinations that we would decide to hit every year instead of every other year.
As pointed out though, attendance is at an all time high, all year round. We are WDW regulars, and we still want to plan trips there. Clearly, lots of other people, do to, whether they're repeat or first time visitors.
WiltonJohn
02-23-2016, 03:42 PM
I'm with the VBs above in the general overview.
While there have been some glitches at times... all of our trips to Disney World have been great. Including the "evil" Fastpass+ and the MDE and the MagicBands. Can that system get better? Of course. Did we like the OLD Fastpass system.... not particularly. That system could have gotten better also.
Like the VBs, when it gets to the point that the value is not there for the $ for us... we'll stop going. And rather than vent over and over and over on forums, we'll just say "oh well" and move on. Bang for the buck is still there enough for us (and we project into the future) that we are in the process of buying a small DVC membership. If we have to because of loss of value (for us), ... we'll sell it later.
The world is changing... and Disney... like every company.... is dealing with that stuff. Sometimes we don't like the changes... but that does not mean those changes are not necessary (at least a the time). Are some changes potentially mistakes? Of course. Will any company (or CEO) bat 100% on decisions? Of course not. Disney ALWAYS has been a for-profit company working within the context of the place and times in which it existed. No "pixie dust" involved in that part.
At one time some liberal applications of "pixie dust" was the business strategy that worked to make the company tons of money. The environment in which they exist changes. The 'total pixie dust approach' is apparently no longer effective in making enough money. So something else has to be implemented. So maybe a little less pixie dust and a little more cost control is what is needed now.
Will that change? Almost 100% for sure. Will everyone like the change? Almost 100% for sure NOT. Will some folks not like it enough to stop going? 100% for sure. Will others discover that they like the way it is now? Also 100% for sure.
Park attendance is up. THAT says something about the "business model". As people who are "more engaged with Disney" than the average park goer, the folks here are not the average Disney Guest nor are the main market. Can Disney exist on mainly getting one or two time visitors? Who knows... but likely.
The basics of Strategic Planning deal with, among other things, identifying those things in the environment that the company exists within. Sometimes you have to deal with that reality... not the fantasy you'd like to have. Or the old past environment. And to deal with the current reality... you have to have the accurate big picture information. NO ONE outside the company's StratComm has all that stuff. 'Armchair quarterbacking' with selective public information is easy. Running a real company is not.
Even with the shareholder stuff I get as a stockholder... I really know nothing about the company.
We'll be back there in October. Pretty certain we'll have a good time.
And yes... I'm sure some folks here will just think the pixie dust is all over us, that we are blind, and the end of the World is nigh.
best,
.................john
Stu29573
02-23-2016, 04:28 PM
I've never said people can't and shouldn't enjoy WDW, I simply said that can't happen for my family right now. The magic is gone for us. I'm really glad that for some, its not.
Like the VBs, when it gets to the point that the value is not there for the $ for us... we'll stop going. And rather than vent over and over and over on forums, we'll just say "oh well" and move on. Bang for the buck is still there enough for us (and we project into the future) that we are in the process of buying a small DVC membership. If we have to because of loss of value (for us), ... we'll sell it later.
The world is changing... and Disney... like every company.... is dealing with that stuff. Sometimes we don't like the changes... but that does not mean those changes are not necessary (at least a the time). Are some changes potentially mistakes? Of course. Will any company (or CEO) bat 100% on decisions? Of course not. Disney ALWAYS has been a for-profit company working within the context of the place and times in which it existed. No "pixie dust" involved in that part.
At one time some liberal applications of "pixie dust" was the business strategy that worked to make the company tons of money. The environment in which they exist changes. The 'total pixie dust approach' is apparently no longer effective in making enough money. So something else has to be implemented. So maybe a little less pixie dust and a little more cost control is what is needed now.
Will that change? Almost 100% for sure. Will everyone like the change? Almost 100% for sure NOT. Will some folks not like it enough to stop going? 100% for sure. Will others discover that they like the way it is now? Also 100% for sure.
Park attendance is up. THAT says something about the "business model". As people who are "more engaged with Disney" than the average park goer, the folks here are not the average Disney Guest nor are the main market. Can Disney exist on mainly getting one or two time visitors? Who knows... but likely.
The basics of Strategic Planning deal with, among other things, identifying those things in the environment that the company exists within. Sometimes you have to deal with that reality... not the fantasy you'd like to have. Or the old past environment. And to deal with the current reality... you have to have the accurate big picture information. NO ONE outside the company's StratComm has all that stuff. 'Armchair quarterbacking' with selective public information is easy. Running a real company is not.
Even with the shareholder stuff I get as a stockholder... I really know nothing about the company.
We'll be back there in October. Pretty certain we'll have a good time.
And yes... I'm sure some folks here will just think the pixie dust is all over us, that we are blind, and the end of the World is nigh.
I know I said I was done with this thread but after reading this I just had to comment. Thank you John. Thank you. You have summed up my thoughts on this in a much better way than I ever could. The perception of value for $ is different for each and every one of us.
joonyer
02-23-2016, 05:30 PM
Imagine your family owned a restaurant. Your Grandparents opened it 50 years ago, and it became the best restaurant in the city. It served the best food available and the best customer service, and everyone knew it was better than all the rest. Only the very best ingredients were used and only the best people were hired to work there. Yes, meals there came at a premium price, but all of its customers thought it was well worth their money. The restaurant was full and sold out for every meal, with a line of people always waiting to get it every time the place was open. Profits were good. You took over when your grandparents retired and tried your best to keep things just the same. Some new menu items were changed through the years and the place was remodeled and refurbished, to keep it up to date. You even enlarged the dining room a couple of times to be able to seat even more guests. You kept most of the old loyal customers and added lots of new ones, too. Some big time competition came into town and opened new places nearby but your place still held its own. Food costs and the cost of labor continued to rise and so you decided to raise prices from time to time to keep your profits steady. Some people complained about the rise in prices, but for the most part you kept your customer base intact and continued to sell the place out for every meal.
Now comes the time where you want to retire. You children have grown up with the business, but they have all decided to become doctors and lawyers and such, and are not interested in running a restaurant. To retire, you decide to sell out a controlling interest in the restaurant, but keep the ownership interest in the name of the place, with a share of the profits. Life is good for you and your retirement is well deserved. The new owners start making changes that you wouldn't have made, but hey, they are still selling out the place and making lots of money for them and for you. Then they decide to save some money on the food costs and the quality of the food declines a little bit. They also save a lot of money by hiring labor with less experience and so customer service declines also. Many of the old loyal customers complain about the place not being as good as it used to be, but a lot of them still come anyway, if not as often as they used to. It's still very good, and the place has such good name recognition from the past, that many newcomers are constantly coming to try it out as the city continues to grow larger in population. Not as many diners become repeat customers like there used to be, but it is still full and basically sold out for every meal, every day. And although clearly the restaurant is no longer the class of the field as it once was in its heyday, profits are higher than ever. In the old days, there was never any negative feedback from customers; every diner thought it was the best dining experience in town. Nowadays, lots of people find things to complain about, especially compared to how fine the restaurant used to be, but still the place continues to sell out make more profits than ever. You have a growing concern about the decline in the restaurant's reputation, but the new owners are ecstatic that they are making money hand over fist. You argue that they are letting things slip, but there seems to be no end to the line of customers out front.
That's where WDW is right now. The "new management" isn't concerned with the comparisons of how it used to be. They look at the line of customers waiting to get in and say: "We must be doing something right", even though every decision looks like it is lowering quality and service compared to before. So long as they are selling all they can dish up (park passes and resort rooms), there is little financial incentive to be the best they can be. Just being good enough is good enough to maximize profits. Unlike the founders of the restaurant, pride in being the best of the best is not part of their compensation.
Stu29573
02-23-2016, 05:35 PM
Imagine your family owned a restaurant. Your Grandparents opened it 50 years ago, and it became the best restaurant in the city. It served the best food available and the best customer service, and everyone knew it was better than all the rest. Only the very best ingredients were used and only the best people were hired to work there. Yes, meals there came at a premium price, but all of its customers thought it was well worth their money. The restaurant was full and sold out for every meal, with a line of people always waiting to get it every time the place was open. Profits were good. You took over when your grandparents retired and tried your best to keep things just the same. Some new menu items were changed through the years and the place was remodeled and refurbished, to keep it up to date. You even enlarged the dining room a couple of times to be able to seat even more guests. You kept most of the old loyal customers and added lots of new ones, too. Some big time competition came into town and opened new places nearby but your place still held its own. Food costs and the cost of labor continued to rise and so you decided to raise prices from time to time to keep your profits steady. Some people complained about the rise in prices, but for the most part you kept your customer base intact and continued to sell the place out for every meal.
Now comes the time where you want to retire. You children have grown up with the business, but they have all decided to become doctors and lawyers and such, and are not interested in running a restaurant. To retire, you decide to sell out a controlling interest in the restaurant, but keep the ownership interest in the name of the place, with a share of the profits. Life is good for you and your retirement is well deserved. The new owners start making changes that you wouldn't have made, but hey, they are still selling out the place and making lots of money for them and for you. Then they decide to save some money on the food costs and the quality of the food declines a little bit. They also save a lot of money by hiring labor with less experience and so customer service declines also. Many of the old loyal customers complain about the place not being as good as it used to be, but a lot of them still come anyway, if not as often as they used to. It's still very good, and the place has such good name recognition from the past, that many newcomers are constantly coming to try it out as the city continues to grow larger in population. more of the diners are not repeat customer like they used to be, but it is still full and basically sold out for every meal, every day. And although clearly the restaurant is no longer the class of the field as it once was in its heyday, profits are higher than ever. In the old days, there was never any negative feedback from customers; every diner thought it was the best dining experience in town. Nowadays, lots of people find things to complain about, especially compared to how fine the restaurant used to be, but still the place continues to sell out and its now making more profit than ever. You are growing concern about the decline in the restaurant's reputation, but the new owners are ecstatic that they are making money hand over fist. You argue that they are letting things slip, but there seems to be no end to the line of customers out front.
That's where WDW is right now. The "new management" isn't concerned with the comparisons of how it used to be. They look at the line of customers waiting to get in and say: "We must be doing something right", even though every decision looks like it is lowering quality and service compared to before. So long as they are selling all they can dish up (park passes and resort rooms), there is little financial incentive to be the best they can be. Just being good enough is enough to maximize profits. Unlike the founders of the restaurant, pride in being the best of the best is not part of their compensation.
Bingo. And for some "good enough is good enough." ...but not for us.
Park Hopper
02-23-2016, 09:57 PM
FP+ certainly caused us some stress at first, but it worked for us. Hold on to your seats here, because I'm about to say something outrageous.... it even made our last couple of trips BETTER because we were able to get on rides that we have always passed on because we simply were not interested in standing in a very, very long stand by line.
As I have said in other threads, FP+ benefits those that do not do rope drop and do not value going on their favorite rides repeatedly. I say that because if you do rope drop, then you can get on any ride you want. Unfortunately, for us that do value getting on many rides, FP+ is a disaster. And, I think most would agree that the preplanning involved with FP+ is cumbersome.
Park Hopper
02-23-2016, 10:45 PM
I'm with the VBs above in the general overview.
While there have been some glitches at times... all of our trips to Disney World have been great. Including the "evil" Fastpass+ and the MDE and the MagicBands. Can that system get better? Of course. Did we like the OLD Fastpass system.... not particularly. That system could have gotten better also.
Like the VBs, when it gets to the point that the value is not there for the $ for us... we'll stop going. And rather than vent over and over and over on forums, we'll just say "oh well" and move on.
I did not repost the whole quote, but I hope to address it all here. It is funny that you do not like being accused of being blinded by the pixie dust, yet you can generalize that those of us bringing up issues are saying that it is impossible to have a good time and that the world is coming to an end. It is perfectly logical for those of us that love Disney World and are upset with the direction that it is going to voice our opinions and concerns in a forum like this.
And, your post kind of agrees with what many of us are saying. Disney is changing to maximize profits. No one is arguing that. I think what the majority of us voicing our frustration are saying is that we think Disney World is becoming like most any other company, when, for us at least, they used to set themselves apart from the others.
I have been to six flags before and it was really crowded and I am sure the company was making a fortune. I had a great time. But, it was not Disney. You can certainly have a great time at Disney, just like at Six Flags, Universal, etc. Many of us just feel that what Disney offered over the others is erroding away.
For the record, we just booked a trip this Spring/Summer. Will we have a great time? I am sure we will. Will we come away with that extra special feeling that we used to get every visit? I hope so, but based upon recent experience and the way things seem to be going, I doubt it.
TheVBs
02-24-2016, 07:45 AM
As I have said in other threads, FP+ benefits those that do not do rope drop and do not value going on their favorite rides repeatedly. I say that because if you do rope drop, then you can get on any ride you want. Unfortunately, for us that do value getting on many rides, FP+ is a disaster. And, I think most would agree that the preplanning involved with FP+ is cumbersome.
We rarely make rope drop, especially later in our trip when we've stayed up late several nights in a row. One of the things we enjoy on vacation is sleeping in sometimes, even at WDW. However, we do value getting on our favorite rides multiple times and have still done that every trip. Now, we couldn't do that with TSM or 7DMT, which we needed the FPs just to do even once. But, those don't rank on our favorites list. They're fun and we like to do them, but the rides we got on multiple times were Splash Mtn., BTMRR, RNRC, Space Mt. On our last trip when DH and I felt done with RNRC, the girls got back on 5 times in a row.
I'm absolutely not arguing that FP+ isn't a train wreck for your vacations. I'm not saying that because it works for us it should work for you. Bottom line for us is that we're still having a blast and creating awesome memories on every trip, so it's ridiculous for someone to try to convince us that we're not getting our money's worth. Just like no one should be telling you that your estimation of the value of your trips is wrong.
Joonyer, what I think your family restaurant analogy might be missing is the reality that there probably were complaints in the golden days. Perhaps though, because there wasn't the massive volume of guests that there are today, with the ability to complain on a platform that has a global reach, that possibly it's easy to look back and say that every guest was satisfied back then. I do still think it's extremely likely that quality control was far more tightly managed than it is today. But, having only been there once or twice as a kid in the early days, I don't really have an appropriate perspective on that. Not arguing with you, just a thought.
Park Hopper
02-24-2016, 09:12 AM
We rarely make rope drop, especially later in our trip when we've stayed up late several nights in a row. One of the things we enjoy on vacation is sleeping in sometimes, even at WDW. However, we do value getting on our favorite rides multiple times and have still done that every trip. Now, we couldn't do that with TSM or 7DMT, which we needed the FPs just to do even once. But, those don't rank on our favorites list. They're fun and we like to do them, but the rides we got on multiple times were Splash Mtn., BTMRR, RNRC, Space Mt. On our last trip when DH and I felt done with RNRC, the girls got back on 5 times in a row.
All of the rides you mention except for RNRC are in MK, and I think most would agree that FP+ is not as much of a problem in MK where there are lots of options. You must have really hit a good time/day for RNRC. In the past, we have been able to do similar with that ride by catching it at the right time in a low park attendance day by using the single rider line, but I cannot imagine getting to do that now, with the limited options at DS. But for those with Epcot as their favorite park, FP+ is a problem. I do not see how anyone can defend the tiered system there, forcing you to wait through two FP+ time slots for rides that ordinarily would not need a FP before trying (and failing) to get another for one of the big 2 rides. Last time I went, I think DS also has that tiered system. If they got rid of the tiered system and the 60 days in advance thing, it would certainly make FP+ more tolerable. I agree that arguing the point anymore is pointless. However, I think we can all agree that had Disney not let things slide as much (think Epcot and DS) and had more options available, then we probably would not be having this discussion. If they had multiple big ride options at Epcot and DS, and even AK, then FP+ may work well and you would not have to worry as much about not getting your favorite FP+ 60 days in advance.
Disney is building now which will help, but it has taken a really long time to react to their competition, rather than leading the way by building new and great. And, with them having to cut from losses elsewhere, I am worried that the new rides, whenever they get done, will be reduced in scale - I hope not, but I think that is what other businesses would do and I have come to expect Disney to act like just another business.
Tekneek
02-24-2016, 09:39 AM
Disney is building now which will help, but it has taken a really long time to react to their competition, rather than leading the way by building new and great.
They have been riding on the reputation built by others and so far it is working out well financially for them and the company. Presumably it will not last forever.
Park Hopper
02-24-2016, 10:59 AM
All of the rides you mention except for RNRC are in MK, and I think most would agree that FP+ is not as much of a problem in MK where there are lots of options.
I know that it is kind of lame to quote myself, but I should mention that one of my most negative experience with FP+ was actually from MK. Last year, after it looked like we would not be able to go on our annual January trip due to school schedules, we decided at the last minute (still about 30 days out) to surprise the kids with a shorter trip to Disney World right after New Year's Day (2015). Unlike the usual week, we had about 5.5 days. We had never been on Mine Train so that was a priority for us. Of course, there was no FP+ availability for Mine Train for any of the days or times that we were going to be there. So, to avoid the really long lines (park attendance was dying down from the holidays, but it was still probably at average levels), we got to Mine Train at Rope Drop. Because we did not run over people and were not the only ones who were doing this, by the time we got out of the ride (which I thought was kind of underwhelming to be honest, except the scene at the end is really cool), the advantage of Rope Drop was lost.
Now, had the old system been in place, we would have picked up a FP for Mine Train and still been able to get on at least 3 rides that typically have long lines like SM, Peter Pan, etc. taking full advantage of Rope Drop. After Mine Train, we still would have been able to get FP for several others we like throughout the day (more than 3).
I realize that this is just one family's experience, but I think for everyone that says that they were able to still ride their favorite 5 times straight, there are probably stories like this. And, I am guessing that the opportunity to ride something 5 times straight could have happened even easier with the old FP system - the new FP+ system did nothing to help create that opportunity. In fact, my argument centers more around the ability to ride Test Track or something like that 3 times in a given day without long lines. However, I said I would stop arguing about that and I apologize for bringing it back up.
Before anyone jumps to conclusions - no, this did not ruin our trip and, no, it is not a big deal compared to that fact that we were on vacation at Disney. We still had a great time, etc... But it is just an example of why I personally do not like the new system. I also freely admit that we are really active in the parks, getting to rope drop and covering a lot of ground in the Parks (without running over others). Not everyone tours that way. And, I can understand that the new system has some appeal for those with more relaxed touring styles that like to have everything planned well in advance.
It is funny that you do not like being accused of being blinded by the pixie dust, yet you can generalize that those of us bringing up issues are saying that it is impossible to have a good time and that the world is coming to an end. It is perfectly logical for those of us that love Disney World and are upset with the direction that it is going to voice our opinions and concerns in a forum like this.
And, your post kind of agrees with what many of us are saying. Disney is changing to maximize profits. No one is arguing that. I think what the majority of us voicing our frustration are saying is that we think Disney World is becoming like most any other company, when, for us at least, they used to set themselves apart from the others.
In reading all these posts I've come to better understand your frustrations. Your family's experience at WDW is changing. You do not feel like you're getting the most bang for your buck. Because of that every additional cut or change is another tick on the list of things that frustrate you. And it just continues to build your frustrations as these things happen. That is completely understandable. Each family is different though. While you feel these changes take out the extra magic you used to feel there are others who do not feel the same way.
Every day there are people who experience WDW for the first time. To them that's what they know. They don't know the magic of opening day. Or the magic throughout the years. They know the magic of their first visit and if it is magical enough they will return and might become occasional or regular visitors. But still their reference point is their first visit and everything after that. So that might be pre-FP, pre-magic bands, pre-FP+ or that might be the current environment of WDW. These people are part of the discussion as well. Not because they are "blinded" or "defenders" but because they still feel like there is value for them.
I'm reserving judgement on the future of WDW. Only time will tell what these changes will lead to. It is a mess to deal with while they are building new areas (Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story). Once those areas open, especially Star Wars, attendance will likely increase significantly. How this will play out is unknown.
WDW cannot accommodate an unlimited number of guests each day. Something has to give to try to balance it out. Cut hours, limit attractions, and increase prices are all strategies to balance it out. That's economics that any business has to apply... demand vs. supply. There will be some who don't like it, some who do, and some who are indifferent.
And just for the record, my family and I are not Star Wars fans so we are indifferent to the addition of that area.
WiltonJohn
02-24-2016, 11:38 AM
WDW cannot accommodate an unlimited number of guests each day. Something has to give to try to balance it out. Cut hours, limit attractions, and increase prices are all strategies to balance it out. That's economics that any business has to apply... demand vs. supply. There will be some who don't like it, some who do, and some who are indifferent.
+1
WiltonJohn
02-24-2016, 11:42 AM
It is funny that you do not like being accused of being blinded by the pixie dust, yet you can generalize that those of us bringing up issues are saying that it is impossible to have a good time and that the world is coming to an end.
Just to be precise in what I actually said. Not a generalization. Never said that people having other views are invalid (as some others often imply). Just the expectation that some will pounce... as they always seem to do on anyone who says positive things about Disney on the forums.
And yes... I'm sure some folks here will just think the pixie dust is all over us, that we are blind, and the end of the World is nigh.
best,
..............john
PopPhan
02-24-2016, 11:51 AM
I'm reserving judgement on the future of WDW. Only time will tell what these changes will lead to. It is a mess to deal with while they are building new areas (Avatar, Star Wars, Toy Story). Once those areas open, especially Star Wars, attendance will likely increase significantly. How this will play out is unknown.
I am in agreement with this statement.
Change is inevitable. Walt Disney not only accepted this to be true, but welcomed it -- good, bad or indifferent. Some will love (strongly like?) the changes. Some will loathe (strongly dislike?) the changes. Most will, in the words of REO Speedwagon, roll with the changes.
joonyer
02-24-2016, 12:10 PM
Joonyer, what I think your family restaurant analogy might be missing is the reality that there probably were complaints in the golden days. Perhaps though, because there wasn't the massive volume of guests that there are today, with the ability to complain on a platform that has a global reach, that possibly it's easy to look back and say that every guest was satisfied back then. I do still think it's extremely likely that quality control was far more tightly managed than it is today. But, having only been there once or twice as a kid in the early days, I don't really have an appropriate perspective on that. Not arguing with you, just a thought.
Yeah, there have probably always been some complaints. My first trip to WDW was in 1971. MK was the only park and had only been open a few weeks. I had no complaints; as a teenager I thought it was the greatest, most exciting vacation trip ever. But I remember my Dad complaining about how expensive he thought everything was. It was still worth every penny in my eyes. Of course it wasn't my money. :D
baldburke
02-24-2016, 12:54 PM
Interesting thoughts here in the later comments. Tim Cook isn't Steve Jobs and never will be, but the debates abound as to whether Tim is up to par vs. Steve and where the company might have been had he not passed. Bob Iger is the 8th man to sit at the helm of Disney since Walt. Certainly the comparisons to Walt and Steve Jobs abound and Disney is the kind of company that needs a Walt or Steve to run it.
Regardless, in looking at the names that have come since Walt you would definitely have to put Bob Iger in the top 3 as far as what he has accomplished for Disney. Yes, the opinion of some may be that the parks are currently in a waning state. However it is core to the Disney business and not going away, so if the magic is gone for you then hang as it is bound to return sooner than later. For us, Disney and all of its parts are still special to our family and probably always will be.
Park Hopper
02-24-2016, 01:51 PM
Just to be precise in what I actually said. Not a generalization. Never said that people having other views are invalid (as some others often imply). Just the expectation that some will pounce... as they always seem to do on anyone who says positive things about Disney on the forums.
Fair enough. I guess I took the part below wrong, in which I thought you were questioning why those of us that have concerns are commenting:
Like the VBs, when it gets to the point that the value is not there for the $ for us... we'll stop going. And rather than vent over and over and over on forums, we'll just say "oh well" and move on.
dlpmikki
02-24-2016, 04:45 PM
We don't like fp+ because we don't like planning that far in advance. But that may be better for other folks. We are getting a bit bored of wdw but we have been going over 20 years thanks to DVC. We are going again in May and have bought annual passes in the hopes we will want some winter sun. Sadly hard to get enthusiasm up.
WiltonJohn
02-25-2016, 01:03 PM
I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.
I think they are likely more concerned about he "occasional visitor" than the "addict".
But.... I'm not in the corporate offices or boardroom... so I haven't a clue, really. Just personal opinions. Everyone's got one.
best,
...................john
Tekneek
02-25-2016, 06:53 PM
I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.
While some of the former regulars complain about there not being enough new things to do, most I know express concerns over the decline in customer service. Amongst other concerns with the decline, Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).
WiltonJohn
02-25-2016, 07:45 PM
........ Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).
I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?
Tekneek
02-25-2016, 08:15 PM
I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?
Seems pretty evident from their actions, which is all any entity can be judged by. The contrast between the past 5 or 6 years and before was noticeable to me as a guest and I'm not the only one. If the policies have not changed, then somebody has gone rogue in middle management. One example are the apology letters sent out regarding construction in the resorts. They don't include offers to adjust locations to an area not being worked on or a discount on the rate (given the obvious less than ideal conditions), they simply apologize as if that makes it worth the same rate.
1DisneyNut
02-26-2016, 08:34 AM
I think that people going every year or even multiple times a year likely are not the target for the business plan. Keeping an operation like WDW changing fast enough to keep people who do that from feeling a bit "bored" with things not evolving fast enough..... wow.... tough task.
I think they are likely more concerned about he "occasional visitor" than the "addict".
But.... I'm not in the corporate offices or boardroom... so I haven't a clue, really. Just personal opinions. Everyone's got one.
best,
...................john
While some of the former regulars complain about there not being enough new things to do, most I know express concerns over the decline in customer service. Amongst other concerns with the decline, Disney now subscribes to the 'apologies are good enough' customer service mindset (which is not excellent or superior, an apology that is not backed by some action is an empty platitude).
It is obvious they are completely focused on the first time and occasional visitor right now and are giving the long time regulars the sorry about that attitude. This is typical short sighted corporate all about making as much as we can right now while we can money grabbing. It is unsustainable and as it always does, will blow up in their face at some point.
Here is something to chew on for those that think the current business plan is sustainable: WDW is estimated to have an annual attendance of over 50 million visitors per year with Magic Kingdom having an estimated over 50,000 guests on average per day. Now think about that for a moment and do the math. Now, how long can they focus on and fill the park with new visitors before that market is tapped out? It doesn't matter what percentage you throw at the numbers, they cannot fill the parks with a significant proportion of new visitors every day. They must retain repeat customers or the place will turn into a ghost town eventually.
I was just wondering how you are aware of this formal company policy?
Seems pretty evident from their actions, which is all any entity can be judged by. The contrast between the past 5 or 6 years and before was noticeable to me as a guest and I'm not the only one. If the policies have not changed, then somebody has gone rogue in middle management. One example are the apology letters sent out regarding construction in the resorts. They don't include offers to adjust locations to an area not being worked on or a discount on the rate (given the obvious less than ideal conditions), they simply apologize as if that makes it worth the same rate.
It is completely obvious. It isn't like they are going to have a press conference and say "For now, we are focused on new customers so whatever with you regulars." Their actions speak themselves.
Our last trip in November, we did enjoy the rides and attractions but they sure did make it awfully aggravating and a lot of work to set up and do which results in you not wanting to be in much of a hurry to go back.
It is obvious they are completely focused on the first time and occasional visitor right now and are giving the long time regulars the sorry about that attitude. This is typical short sighted corporate all about making as much as we can right now while we can money grabbing. It is unsustainable and as it always does, will blow up in their face at some point.
Here is something to chew on for those that think the current business plan is sustainable: WDW is estimated to have an annual attendance of over 50 million visitors per year with Magic Kingdom having an estimated over 50,000 guests on average per day. Now think about that for a moment and do the math. Now, how long can they focus on and fill the park with new visitors before that market is tapped out? It doesn't matter what percentage you throw at the numbers, they cannot fill the parks with a significant proportion of new visitors every day. They must retain repeat customers or the place will turn into a ghost town eventually.
None of us truly know what the strategy is. At the end of the day they are a public corporation. It's a tough balance to please Wall Street and guests. Not everyone will be happy with the decisions they make.
None of us truly know what the strategy is. At the end of the day they are a public corporation. It's a tough balance to please Wall Street and guests. Not everyone will be happy with the decisions they make.
Doh! I meant publicly traded corporation.
WiltonJohn
02-26-2016, 11:29 AM
Their actions speak themselves.
Their actions are able to be interpreted by people who have those particular actions to observe. That certain people have those situations to observe, does not mean that ALL people are having those same interactions.
There is a huge level of "opinion" involved in any individual interpreting the meaning/intent of any actions and also to extrapolating the number of similar actions that are occurring.
Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all. I think this is clearly reflected in the forums also.
best,
.................john
SurferStitch
02-26-2016, 11:56 AM
A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous. She didn't go into detail.... I'll get that later. But... she did say that she and her party were given free dining plans, free 6-day park hoppers and 5 night hotel stay for a future trip because of their complaints. I was surprised she got THAT much. She's definitely taking advantage of that offer!! I hope her next trip is much more magical!
She was there for the latest run event they had (5K, 10K.... no idea).
WiltonJohn
02-26-2016, 12:07 PM
Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all.
A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous.)
1 :cool:
best,
...............john
1DisneyNut
02-26-2016, 12:17 PM
Their actions are able to be interpreted by people who have those particular actions to observe. That certain people have those situations to observe, does not mean that ALL people are having those same interactions.
There is a huge level of "opinion" involved in any individual interpreting the meaning/intent of any actions and also to extrapolating the number of similar actions that are occurring.
Customer service training in major businesses focuses on the fact that people who are dissatisfied with your service/product will complain at a rate at least 10 times the rate at which happy customers will tell anyone about their experiences at all. I think this is clearly reflected in the forums also.
best,
.................johnAll you really said in all that was people have different opinions and you mostly only hear the negative ones. I think we all already know we have different opinions. The only way a company a knows they have dissatisfied customers is if they complain. If we don't voice our displeasure, they will think everything is just great and we are loving it. So anyway, that is exactly what we are doing and as you can see in this thread, there are far more than your average amount of dissatisfied customers right now.
A friend of mine JUST texted me about 10 minutes ago about her trip to WDW last week. She said it was horrendous. She didn't go into detail.... I'll get that later. But... she did say that she and her party were given free dining plans, free 6-day park hoppers and 5 night hotel stay for a future trip because of their complaints. I was surprised she got THAT much. She's definitely taking advantage of that offer!! I hope her next trip is much more magical!
She was there for the latest run event they had (5K, 10K.... no idea).
Wow, the wheels must have really come off the bus if they gave her that much compensation. I would imagine they are being bombarded with complaints right now and may be starting to do damage control.
WiltonJohn
02-26-2016, 01:46 PM
So anyway, that is exactly what we are doing and as you can see in this thread, there are far more than your average amount of dissatisfied customers right now.
Actually no... sorry, but I can't "see" that. What we see here is a terribly small sample of people complaining, compared to the average Disney attendance in an hour/day/week/year/ etc. A statistically inaccurate sample size and method... and any conclusions made follow right off of that inaccuracy.
THAT is a point I am making. Just because an individual comes to such conclusions from a limited data set does not make the conclusions somehow "true".
People can state that they had a good time and value for their money... and people can say that they had a bad time and no value for their money. BOTH are perfectly valid observations of personal experiences, for sure. To extrapolate beyond that level unless you have access to data that only Disney has.... is pure conjecture.
As a side note... if a person is dissatisfied with their Disney experiences, I imagine they'd likely have more impact on the company by writing or calling them directly. While it is possible that they read all this stuff on the forums, it is also possible that they don't.
best,
................john
Stu29573
02-26-2016, 03:03 PM
Actually, I have said that I am speaking for my family, and if others are satisfied with the current state of things, I'm happy for them. However, its just not magic for my family any more....which is sad because we were the biggest Disney World fans you would ever likely meet. If you are happy and haven't lost the magic, then I really am happy for (and envious of) you. By the way, I did contact Disney about our experiences, but I really doubt it did much good.
TheVBs
02-27-2016, 07:49 PM
I can share that our experience with sharing any problems we've experienced with customer service or CMs have definitely not been met with just a "sorry, deal with it" response. This includes our two most recent trips.
WiltonJohn
02-27-2016, 08:41 PM
I can share that our experience with sharing any problems we've experienced with customer service or CMs have definitely not been met with just a "sorry, deal with it" response.
Ditto here from about 2+ years ago. Excellent "recovery". And last summer's trip....... no issues. (except an ill timed thunderstorm :mickey:)
best,
..................john
Stu29573
02-27-2016, 09:36 PM
I can share that our experience with sharing any problems we've experienced with customer service or CMs have definitely not been met with just a "sorry, deal with it" response. This includes our two most recent trips.
No, I didn't mean that. I'm sure the CM did all she could (although nothing like the "gimme's" listed by others on this thread!) but I meant that she really has no control over the overriding issues that caused the problems...and I don't see the higher ups being real interested. Just my impression...
Patricia
02-29-2016, 11:37 PM
Posting from my phone, so excuse any errors. WDWNT is reporting that 10 of the 29 Streetmosphere actors (Hollywood Studios) are not having their contracts renewed, 9 of those actors are full time.. These actors will be finishing up their contracts in April. The Fairy Godmother in MK and Aurora in Epcot are also missing. Rumors also indicate that TradNation, the new performing group at Epcot is being cut in April, but that could be unrelated to budgetary concerns. It's also reported that the current understaffed positions are leading to longer lines at resort front desks, shops and restaurants. Boo.
Posting from my phone, so excuse any errors. WDWNT is reporting that 10 of the 29 Streetmosphere actors (Hollywood Studios) are not having their contracts renewed, 9 of those actors are full time.. These actors will be finishing up their contracts in April. The Fairy Godmother in MK and Aurora in Epcot are also missing. Rumors also indicate that TradNation, the new performing group at Epcot is being cut in April, but that could be unrelated to budgetary concerns. It's also reported that the current understaffed positions are leading to longer lines at resort front desks, shops and restaurants. Boo.
:(
:shake:
Park Hopper
03-02-2016, 09:55 AM
Posting from my phone, so excuse any errors. WDWNT is reporting that 10 of the 29 Streetmosphere actors (Hollywood Studios) are not having their contracts renewed, 9 of those actors are full time.. These actors will be finishing up their contracts in April. The Fairy Godmother in MK and Aurora in Epcot are also missing. Rumors also indicate that TradNation, the new performing group at Epcot is being cut in April, but that could be unrelated to budgetary concerns. It's also reported that the current understaffed positions are leading to longer lines at resort front desks, shops and restaurants. Boo.
Wow, you hear things like this and then find out they are raising ticket prices again. And, this is coming when they reportedly had a great year financially at Disney World. We can debate the value of a Disney Vacation back and forth, but I think most would agree that this is not a good look for the company. To me the Streetmosphere actors are a big part of what makes HS unique and special. Maybe they are preparing for the new HS - I could see them not fitting in as well with the new direction of the park.
eandrsmom
03-20-2016, 08:52 AM
I think that it's more about cost cutting than fitting in with the new direction of the park. The new sections won't be opened for quite awhile. That being said, we have AP's but will not be renewing this year. It isn't because of cost, but because of diminishing value. We may consider purchasing them again once more things are open, but not during this massive construction phase. Overall, the parks are a good choice for our family because we have both teenagers and young children. (There's always something interesting for everyone.) I'm just not particularly happy with the direction things have been going the past several years. A recent example was this past Mardi Gras. We always know that we will run into friends from home, since most of South Louisiana is out of school that week. Once we were there, we realized that we had distant cousins that were visiting as well. Because we were a party of 7 and they were a party of 12, it was impossible for us to get together for an a meal or afternoon at one of the parks. Unfortunately, we had planned different parks each day. We all were disappointed, however we understood that we couldn't meet up because of FP+ and ADR's that had been made months in advance. Thinking about the way all of this has evolved and the direction that things are going, is off-putting.
Cinderelley
03-23-2016, 10:54 AM
Phew. I just read through all 7 pages. First off, DizneyFreak I appreciate your bluntness.
Secondly, I don't come to these boards as often as I used to, because I am not as excited about Disney World as I used to be. For a while, I was going to Disney World every year. I was planning my next trip before the one I was on was even over. The boards were a way to let me express that excitement and not explode with it (or completely bore everyone else in my life with the same Disney talk). I would imagine that a lot of people are quieter here for the same reason.
Everyone can have fun at a theme park. If they didn't, Six Flags, Universal, Cedar Point, Kings Island etc would all be closed. The Disney difference was that you became immersed in their world instead of just walking around on a bunch of dirt or concrete around steel beams that hold up the rides you are going on. That was the way Walt wanted it. That is the way it was for a lot of people on this board. Now that immersion is going away. I was shocked on my last trip to see someone out around the edges of the water in Epcot with one of those gripper things picking up trash. Logically I know it happens, but I had never observed that before. While trying to leave Magic Kingdom, I was directed down one of the side roads that cast members use. There wasn't any theming to cover up the buildings. That definitely did not keep me in my happy fantasy place that all was right with the world. Neither did all of the construction that stood out everywhere I turned. There were numerous other things that turned me off, but there isn't any need to recite them here. Did I have fun with my friend? Absolutely. I will forever cherish those memories. Will I go back? Once. That is it.
My kids all have significant others now who have never been to Disney World. My children remember it as it used to be and are very excited to share that magic with the ones they love. I will take them, because of their excitement. We were going to go in 2017. I really truly cannot bring myself to go then, so I have put it off until 2018. In the meantime, we are going to Disneyland this year where the magic is still alive and well. Unless Disneyland goes down the same path as Disney World, we will go there instead. My first grandchild was born last October. I plan on making many memories with her in Disneyland.
As for my friend who I went to Disney World with, he and I are planning a road trip. He lives in Florida, but we still chose to go do something other than Disney World. We will have just as great of a time on the road as we did on our Disney trip, and it will cost a whole lot less. By not keeping the magic in our trip, Disney World lost a repeat customer (myself) and a potential repeat customer (my friend). That is why all these seemingly minor cuts become such a big deal. It erodes away the magic and shows Disney to be just another theme park built out of concrete and steel beams. Personally, I don't pay for concrete and steel. There are much more interesting things in the world to see.
Stu29573
03-23-2016, 12:16 PM
Phew. I just read through all 7 pages. First off, DizneyFreak I appreciate your bluntness.
Secondly, I don't come to these boards as often as I used to, because I am not as excited about Disney World as I used to be. For a while, I was going to Disney World every year. I was planning my next trip before the one I was on was even over. The boards were a way to let me express that excitement and not explode with it (or completely bore everyone else in my life with the same Disney talk). I would imagine that a lot of people are quieter here for the same reason.
Everyone can have fun at a theme park. If they didn't, Six Flags, Universal, Cedar Point, Kings Island etc would all be closed. The Disney difference was that you became immersed in their world instead of just walking around on a bunch of dirt or concrete around steel beams that hold up the rides you are going on. That was the way Walt wanted it. That is the way it was for a lot of people on this board. Now that immersion is going away. I was shocked on my last trip to see someone out around the edges of the water in Epcot with one of those gripper things picking up trash. Logically I know it happens, but I had never observed that before. While trying to leave Magic Kingdom, I was directed down one of the side roads that cast members use. There wasn't any theming to cover up the buildings. That definitely did not keep me in my happy fantasy place that all was right with the world. Neither did all of the construction that stood out everywhere I turned. There were numerous other things that turned me off, but there isn't any need to recite them here. Did I have fun with my friend? Absolutely. I will forever cherish those memories. Will I go back? Once. That is it.
My kids all have significant others now who have never been to Disney World. My children remember it as it used to be and are very excited to share that magic with the ones they love. I will take them, because of their excitement. We were going to go in 2017. I really truly cannot bring myself to go then, so I have put it off until 2018. In the meantime, we are going to Disneyland this year where the magic is still alive and well. Unless Disneyland goes down the same path as Disney World, we will go there instead. My first grandchild was born last October. I plan on making many memories with her in Disneyland.
As for my friend who I went to Disney World with, he and I are planning a road trip. He lives in Florida, but we still chose to go do something other than Disney World. We will have just as great of a time on the road as we did on our Disney trip, and it will cost a whole lot less. By not keeping the magic in our trip, Disney World lost a repeat customer (myself) and a potential repeat customer (my friend). That is why all these seemingly minor cuts become such a big deal. It erodes away the magic and shows Disney to be just another theme park built out of concrete and steel beams. Personally, I don't pay for concrete and steel. There are much more interesting things in the world to see.
Well said, and it sums up our feelings as well. We have also said if and when we go back to Disney, it will be Disneyland, not WDW. I've been to WDW quite a few times, but on this last trip, the "magic" was gone. The really sad thing is that I'm not sure it can ever come back. Once you know were the lady goes when she is made to "vanish," you can't help but look there and the magic trick is just that...a trick... silly and cheap. Add to that formula all of he hassles and price gouging and I'm done. A wonderful company destroyed by greed and laziness. I wish WDW would prove me wrong, but I know they won't.
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