WDWRR "Getting Rid of Steam": Help!

[Main Street Jim]

Found this on another Web site:


"Several rumors have been going around that Walt Disney World is looking to replace its current four steam locomotives with diesel engines. These rumors have been going around for years, but in the last few months, they have picked up steam, so to speak. More and more, this sounds like a real possibility that is moving forward instead of just something that management considers for way off in the future.

Why does this matter? Walt Disney loved steam trains, as do millions of others. And the steam locomotives at Walt Disney World have their own history about them, as they each approach the age of 100 years old, having previously pulled trains through Mexico before being rescued by Disney and rebuilt for service in the Magic Kingdom.

Ending the use of steam engines at Walt Disney World, or at any other Disney park, for that matter, would be the sad end of a glorious era of steam railroading at Disney parks. While not all guests have much knowledge about steam engines, many of them are impressed to learn that these are actual working steam engines, just like those used around the turn of the 20th Century. There isn’t any “Disney magic” at work here – these engines are the real deal.

To have these engines sold, or even worse, scrapped, would be quite the tragedy, given their history both at Disney and before.

Please help us to raise awareness and Save Disney Steam!"

PM me for the Web site.

[BrerGnat]

Hasn't the Disneyland Railroad been running off bio diesel since 2009? The old "recycled french fry grease?" I know for a fact it was, because you could smell it in the tunnels.

[badkitty]

This will definitely be tragic. Main Street Jim, this must break your heart to hear this. It does mine and I'm not as close to the magic of the steam trains as you are.

[Kairi_7378]

This rail buff would be sad to see them go. Has there been a lot of trouble maintaining the locomotives in recent years?

[joonyer]

Say in ain't so. This would be a really bad move. Part of the foundation of the MK is nostalgia. I like to think this would never even be considered by Walt.

I love to experience the contrast between the steam trains and the monorail in such close proximity. And for millions of people, the WDW railroad is the only chance they will ever have to experience a steam railroad ride. We ride it several times on every trip, not just as transportation, but as an attraction in itself.

Send me the website if you can. Not sure how to PM.

[#1donaldfan]

Hasn't the Disneyland Railroad been running off bio diesel since 2009? The old "recycled french fry grease?" I know for a fact it was, because you could smell it in the tunnels.

I've not smelled the re-used oil at Disney. I've been behind the random truck that uses it, but not the train. I guess I was just not paying attention. :confused:

[Terra]

Jim,
Thank you for posting the history. I had no idea.
Oh this makes me sad :( We so enjoy just getting on the train and staying on for a few rounds when we are tired and want a break and take in the sites.

Save the Steam!!!

[hoop de do]

Sad sad move if they do. I don't think Walt would approve, of course that can be said about a lot of the changes lately.

[BrerGnat]

FYI, they can convert these to diesel engines, no need to scrap them or sell them off. The Disneyland trains are still the original ones. The engines were just converted to burn the biodiesel fuel. They look the same.

[joonyer]

FYI, they can convert these to diesel engines, no need to scrap them or sell them off. The Disneyland trains are still the original ones. The engines were just converted to burn the biodiesel fuel. They look the same.

Yes, you can use diesel (or other fuel oil) to heat the water instead of wood or coal, and still have a steam engine, maybe not completely authentic to the 19th century, but at least it would still be a steam train. I hope this is the limit of their adaptation/modernization.

[garymacd]

My understanding is that the engines were already converted to burn diesel fuel to convert water to steam. They still stop to pick up water at the station by the new Fantasyland.

Does this rumour mean they will not be steam-powered or driven anymore? That would be a shame. I can see them switching the fuel to either bio-diesel or even natural gas to save on carbon and other pollutants, but to get rid of the steam would certainly diminish the experience.

[BrerGnat]

The trains at Disneyland are still steam trains. They still take on water and generate steam. At least, I am pretty sure they do

[Main Street Jim]

Yes, you guys are all correct.

I'm *not as familiar* with Disneyland's trains as I am with Florida's.

All four of Florida's trains were originally wood-burners when first built. When they were found by Disney in Mexico, they were basically sitting in a junkyard. They got shipped to Tampa, Florida for refurbishment, where they were then converted to fuel-burners (low-sulfur #2 diesel fuel in place of wood or coal). Engineers can control flowing fuel with a valve much easier than trying to "take wood out of a burner" to lower the fire...LOL...

But I digress.


Does this rumour mean they will not be steam-powered or driven anymore? That would be a shame. Yes. This is what the rumor is about. They'd still *look* like a "steam train" (like in Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Shanghai), but, they'd burn a complete fuel system, instead of just using fuel to heat the water to steam.

Part of this rumor seems to stem from the fact that WDWRR #2, the Lilly Belle, *still* has not returned from her 2010 (I *think* that's when it was) refurbishment in Pennsylvania. The rumor mill amongst Disney railfans seems to indicate that *someone* has ties to upper management at the park, and that they (Disney) don't want to spend the BIG money it would take to replace the boiler on Lilly.

(Just a little backstory: Lilly Belle seems to have been the "worst-behaved" of the four locomotives (according to other engineers), although she was my absolute favorite. I trained for engineer on her; I drove her every weekend for three years-plus doing the morning shows, and *never* had a problem with her. I treated her like a lady :) and she was good right back to me. Other engineers always seemed to have issues with Lilly - some ran her out of water; some engineers had valve issues or brake and throttle problems - but not me.)

[Scar]

Several rumors have been going around that Walt Disney World is looking to replace its current four steam locomotives with diesel engines.


Part of this rumor seems to stem from the fact that WDWRR #2, the Lilly Belle, *still* has not returned from her 2010 (I *think* that's when it was) refurbishment in Pennsylvania. The rumor mill amongst Disney railfans seems to indicate that *someone* has ties to upper management at the park, and that they (Disney) don't want to spend the BIG money it would take to replace the boiler on Lilly.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the issue is cost (and of course that is totally believable,) why don't they just replace "Lilly Belle" and keep the other 3? :confused:

[Main Street Jim]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the issue is cost (and of course that is totally believable,) why don't they just replace "Lilly Belle" and keep the other 3? :confused:That's what's not understandable, either. Lilly's been up at Strasburg (PA) since, what, 2010? So, she's been up there for three and a half years now at least (Nov 2010, I believe), and just *sitting* in storage. I would think the storage cost alone would be high enough for them (Disney) to say, "Let's just replace the locomotive." Problem is, you can't *find* another narrow-gauge *steam* locomotive (at the moment, anyways), so, you've (or rather, Disney's) got to:

1) Look at converting all four steam locomotives to "diesel-burning 'steam outline' locos" (which would be fairly cost-prohibitive, because then you've got to re-train Maintenance personnel and operators/engineers, along with converting all four trains)

2) Just....give up on Lilly :( and let her rot in a scrap yard (which, if/when people *did* find out where she was, they'd literally rip the poor thing of "memorabilia", or:

3) Just get the dang boiler replaced, as much as they're paying just to keep her stored.

*I* don't know what will happen; the Cast and crew of the WDWRR have no idea what's going to happen just yet; and the Maintenance guys haven't heard *anything* about this yet coming from management. :/

[Main Street Jim]

So, a *very* reliable source has informed me of why Lilly's stayed in storage.


Strasburg Railroad's shop is trying to get more money out of Disney because they (Strasburg) underbid, and there was more work that needed to be done than they thought. They are the ones talking about liability of the boiler because they want to replace it so they can run the bill up to cover their lost money. They are holding her hostage for more money so to speak....and Disney's not wanting to pay more than what the shop agreed to.

Disney paid them the amount they asked for in the contract, but, Strasburg wants more money for the "rest of the work" that was done.

So, that's the status of Lilly, as far as I understand my source.

As far as converting to diesel goes...he hasn't heard a thing about it.

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

:(

[mcjaco]

I can't seem them losing the steam engines. Re-engineering them for lower fuel costs, and maintenance...yes.

In this day and age, where the large railroad corporations are rescuing and restoring steam locomotives again (Union Pacific's Big Boy Project, and the N&W 611 come to mind), this would be a step backwards.

Strasburg, is unfortunately, the only place that has shops to truely do these repairs, and steam engines are like onions. There are a lot of layers. Granted I don't think under estimating and holding a locomotive hostage is kosher, but if the boiler is that bad (which needs complete flue replacement every 15 years anyway via the Feds mandate), then Disney is kind of stuck.

I'll actually be out at Strasburg this summer....wonder if I can sneak a peak. :mickey:

[Main Street Jim]

I can't seem them losing the steam engines. Re-engineering them for lower fuel costs, and maintenance...yes. They wouldn't be "losing" the trains altogether *if* there was some truth to the conversion rumor. They'd be converting them from diesel-burning steam locomotives to full-on diesel "steam outline" locomotives. But, so far, none of my sources have been able to confirm nor deny such rumor.

[Wayne]

Let's just hope that this is a rumor. The steam engines at MK are a connection to Walt. While I have no problem in changing fuel to some mixture of bio-diesel that is burned to heat water in the boiler to create steam to power the engine, conversion to steam outline diesels means gutting these beautiful old machines to install a motor of some type powered by a diesel engine of the type used in emergency generators or such.

As it is now, it takes skill and training to operate the engines as the fireman (responsible for keeping the engine ready to operate) and the engineer (the throttle operator) have to work together. In a diesel outline, the number of operators in the cab could possibly be reduced to one person and the entire operation automated so that the person really needs no training other than to press the emergency stop button if there is a problem. Since the bean counters reign supreme I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the motivation.

Hopefully this is just a baseless rumor.