Businesses banning children?

[MNNHFLTX]

We have had two recent stories in the news here in Houston about businesses putting restrictions on children in their establishments. In one, a well-known restaurant is no longer allowing children younger than eight to dine there with their parents after 7 p.m. In the other, a home design store is outright banning children under age 12 from the store. This has caused a bit of an outcry from local parents. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are?

Let me say, first of all, that I am a parent and while my son is grown up now, we did frequently bring him to restaurants and stores with us when he was little. However, I really don't have a problem with what the restaurant and store are doing; in fact, I support their right to do so. Many parents do not supervise their children adequately, especially in stores, and why should the store have to suffer losses because of this? As far as the restaurant, they are family-friendly up until 7 p.m. After that they want to allow adult diners to have a more peaceful atmosphere to dine in. I appreciate this. I mean, do very young children need to be out eating supper at 7 or 8 p.m.?

Parents who don't agree with these policies won't give their business to these establishments, which is their right. If the restaurant or store doesn't mind taking the hit for that, isn't that their right also?

[DizneyRox]

Disney Cruise Line has similar rules for their exclusive restaurants, i hear no outcry...

Doesn't bother me... On RCCL, they allow children before a certain time, so that's when we ate there. I know I wouldn't want my meal ruined by some ill behaving kids, and while mine may not be that kid, the restaurant doesn't know that. So, to be fair to their guests, they have these rules...

Hakuna Matata

[GAN]

Unfortunately, it's a situation where some ruin it for all. If you own a business you should be able to allow any restrictions you want -my personal view. However, I see the situations you describe as a GREAT business opportunity for restaurants and furniture stores who encourage children to take part!

[VWL Mom]

I have no problem at all with the idea. Mine are older now but when they were little we did take them to restaurants but we went at their dinner time. I wish some of the signatures at Disney would do something similar (maybe after 8P).

The home decor store is interesting. Is it an upscale store? I wonder if they were tired of kids jumping on the furniture and running around.

Although most parents are responsible I've seen one to many sets that are not. Unfortunately, as GAN said, the bad ones ruin it for the good.

[buzznwoodysmom]

Yep, agree with other posters who said the bad ruin it for the good. I don't know why but in recent years I can't even count the number of times we have had a meal "ruined" by screaming, misbehaving children when we are out to eat. And the worst of it are the parents who act oblivious to fact their their little darling is bothering other people.

What's frustrating is that when my kids were young they did the very same thing, except we promptly removed them from the restaurant. We went about a whole year of not eating out much with both of our children around the time they were 1-2 years of age. They did not belong in a restaurant among other people trying to enjoy a meal so we either got a sitter or didn't eat out. Not sure when this "rule of thumb" went out the window?????

Therefor I can't blame establishments setting forth this rule if they have had complaints from other patrons more often than they'd like.

[BrerGnat]

I fully support businesses making rules like this.

My kids are no angels, but we do dine out and take them to stores. However, I absolutely remove them if necessary, and I do it faster than they can even get one nasty look from anyone else. We also eat out at their normal meal time. Always have. I had being out later at night without the kids and seeing tired kids having tantrums while their parents look the other way.

[Scar]

A business that pays taxes, and does not receive any government subsidies, has the right to do whatever they want, so long as they don't break the law. Period.

To answer the question... great idea.

[Kenny1113]

I agree with PP. a business can do this if they wish and those who are offended can choose to not do business with them.

I would not be offended by it, I am like others posted. My kids know there are consequences if they even think about misbehaving.

Funny that design stores are mentioned, we were in several yesterday. Some of that stuff is very expensive and fragile.I heard several "crashes" in the varies stores. I knew it wasn't my kids because I made them stay right on my heels.

[disneymom15]

My father owns a motorcycle dealership, I can't tell you how many times kids are let loose to run amok in the showroom. They jump and climb on everything, tip smaller bikes over, hop on a $20,000 and up motorcycle and pretend ride it like a horse. The parents say nothing..

[Mrs Bus Driver]

Now if they would only do this in movie theaters. I can't tell you the number of times I've had a movie ruined by a screaming child who shouldn't have been there. I am not talking about kids movies either, to many times parents take children to movies they want to see and everyone else in the theater has to suffer. When mine were little the only movies I took them to were kids movies, usually over in about 45 minutes which is the right amount of time for a small child. I remember seeing the 2 towers when a couple came in with 6 small children. It was a 3 and half hour movie so naturally the kids wound up fidgeting, talking and crying. I don't know what these people were thinking.

[John]

I agree with PP. a business can do this if they wish and those who are offended can choose to not do business with them.

And there is the key - it's a free market. If the policy starts to effect the bottom line of the business, they likely will change the policy - or if it helps them, they'll stick with it.

Likewise, some stores may go out of their way to court the disenfranchised folks and decide that's how THEY will make money.

That's the beauty of capitalism!

[1DisneyNut]

I have no problem with the policy. In fact, I wish more had it and enforced it. The problem is so many parents these days just let their children do whatever they want, act however they want, and have whatever they want. They then act like we are the a-holes for saying something to them about their kids running around and around the table screaming and fighting with each other in a restaurant.

Suits me just fine if they tell parents with children they have to leave by 7:00 PM so the rest of us can have a quiet peaceful meal for a change. We used to take our kids out to eat with us when they were small and when they started acting up, we would ask for to go boxes and get out of there so we wouldn't bother anyone any longer. We actually stopped taking them out to eat from around the age 2 to 5 or 6 range because we didn't want them bothering others. Unfortunately, we are in the minority on this one; most parents just take them and ignore them.

This reminds me of a dinner we about a year ago. We went to an Italian restaurant nearby that a lot of people have been talking about. It is located in an affluent suburb so you would think the kids would be well mannered and behaved. There were numerous families there with children ranging from babies to teenagers. It was a zoo! Babies crying, which I can understand but they should have gone outside or left. Young children fighting and yelling and every once in a while one of the parents would yell at them to settle down. The worse however were the 10-14 year olds who were running in and out the doors, putting their faces against the windows and doors from outside and making faces at the ones inside, chasing each other around, running back and forth to the restroom. It was horrible. I mentioned it to the manager and he basically said that if they ask them to leave it wouldn't be long they would be out of business because the majority of their customers have ill behaved children. I responded with "I guess I won't be back then" and we haven't stepped foot in the place since and probably never will. It is a shame because the food was actually pretty good.

[SBETigg]

My kids are grown, too, so doesn't bother me and in fact I like the idea. Not for every business, but for businesses that need to protect themselves and other patrons from unsupervised children, I think it's great. Sad that some parents refuse to actually parent, but we've all seen it. I can imagine that it's easier to say "no children" than it is to ask parents to watch their children more closely once situations arise.

[Ian]

We have had two recent stories in the news here in Houston about businesses putting restrictions on children in their establishments. In one, a well-known restaurant is no longer allowing children younger than eight to dine there with their parents after 7 p.m. In the other, a home design store is outright banning children under age 12 from the store.It's a free country. Businesses can make any decisions they want that they think are best for their business, as long as they don't violate any laws.

Personally, I wouldn't give either one of them another red cent of my money, but that's okay because presumably others will go in my place.

[faline]

I no longer have young children. When I did, we typically went to restaurants where kids who couldn't sit still for a meal could easily be tolerated (as long as they weren't in melt-down mode or crying).

At this stage of my life, I would be far more likely to patronize a restaurant who had a rule limiting when young children could be there. On the other hand, some of my annoyances at restaurants are the adults who speak so loudly in the restaurant that their conversation can easily be heard from several tables away!

[Tekneek]

It certainly depends on the establishment/circumstances, but as a rule I see and experience far worse when families aren't around than when they are. A kid crying or being loud is preferable to adults misbehaving.

[LauraF]

I have no objections to it, as long as they indicate why they are doing so to the public. I think it's very easy for us to make assumptions about why businesses are banning children.

That said, I really don't like having to tell others' children to behave. I had to just yesterday - two preteen girls were shouting at each other at Starbucks, while their father ignored them. I finally walked up the girls and asked them to take it outside. They gave me a dirty look and I pointed out the toddler at the next table was behaving better then they were. *That* kid's parents smiled at me. They understood the unspoken rules.

Bascially, like many others, when my husband I want a quiet meal, we frequent places that are more likely to be so, and when we don't mind some childish mayhem (like the b-day party at the pizza place last week) we go there.

[MNNHFLTX]

I have no objections to it, as long as they indicate why they are doing so to the public. I think it's very easy for us to make assumptions about why businesses are banning children.
The owners of both businesses have been pretty straightforward in interviews as to why they have adopted these policies. The restaurant owner states his business is family-friendly until 7 p.m and then he wanted to give adult diners the option to have a more peaceful dinner time. (By the way, he is a father to three young children himself.) The design store owner had suffered numerous losses due to breakage, as well as the inconvenience of children tampering with displays, removing prices tags, etc.

Some parents upset with the decision have made statements such as "young children need to practice going out to eat at nice restaurants" and "I encourage my child's natural curiosity no matter where we go". Personally, I don't buy those arguments. Children can practice good manners at home at the dinner table on a daily basis and their curiosity can be piqued at lots of places other than stores--parks, zoos, museums, etc. From what I heard in the interviews, it just bugged some people that someone else was telling them them where they could or could not bring their child.

[Dulcee]

While I respect that it's their business I do find this rather ridiculous. Will they start banning twenty somethings after they have to deal with a couple rowdy groups? Or maybe adults with developmental disabilities who's actions may not be considered behaved enough for other adult diners?

As children my siblings and I always went to restaurants. By the time I was 4 I knew how to order my steak and behave in polite company. And sure there are a few stories when my father had to remove a screaming child from a dining room.my two young nephews know how to sit at a table with adults and no that doesn't include hiding behind a iphone.

And as far as stores, one of my older nephews favorite things to do when traveling is to go antiquing. He has quite a collection of WWI and WWII memorabilia. He'd be horribly upset to walk up to a store that says no children. And he feels it every time we walk into a store where the face of a store keeper indicated they don't trust him due to his young age.

Yes children need to behave in public and parents need to enforce that. But punishing everyone due to the handful who can't? No thank you.

[MNNHFLTX]

Yes children need to behave in public and parents need to enforce that. But punishing everyone due to the handful who can't? No thank you.

IMO, the opposite is is true. It seems to me that the number of well-behaved children is far out-weighed by those who are not, at least in my neck of the woods. It's the parent's fault, of course, and many parents just seem oblivious to it all. I know there are certain stores I use to love that I will no longer go into because kids are running all over the place, screaming and pulling merchandise into the aisles. Just my observation based on where I live, which might be what the store and restaurant are basing their decisions on too.

Also, when parents have younger children, I think they become temporarily immune to a certain amount of chaos and noise. Once your kids grow up, you become a lot more sensitive to it again. I know that's the case with me.

[Tekneek]

I'll also say that the concept of "well behaved" is not as objective as many might think. It is very subjective and what one person sees as normal kid stuff is not regarded as that by another. If you talk to psychologists, normal kid behavior is vastly different than what you'd think from taking a sample of opinions from adults on a city street. A lot of adults expect children to act like little adults, which is not realistic or healthy, but adults have a hard time seeing the world as children do.

Since children are going to be children, each business should decide for itself and take the consequences.

[MNNHFLTX]

I'll also say that the concept of "well behaved" is not as objective as many might think. It is very subjective and what one person sees as normal kid stuff is not regarded as that by another. If you talk to psychologists, normal kid behavior is vastly different than what you'd think from taking a sample of opinions from adults on a city street. A lot of adults expect children to act like little adults, which is not realistic or healthy, but adults have a hard time seeing the world as children do.

I agree with you, but then why expect children to sit still or talk in "indoor voices" in nice restaurants or refrain from touching things in a store filled with breakables? It would be better for parents to recognize that there are certain situations that aren't necessarily appropriate for young children and that that's okay. Once again, I think the major problem people have with the businesses I mentioned is that the owners decided this for them.

Another thing that comes to mind is that "normal kid behavior" varies from one culture to another. On our recent trip to France, my family noted that the majority of French children behave much differently in public than their American counterparts. I honestly don't know why. Different expectations and different ways of handling behavior is my guess.

[Dulcee]

I agree with you, but then why expect children to sit still or talk in "indoor voices" in nice restaurants or refrain from touching things in a store filled with breakables? It would be better for parents to recognize that there are certain situations that aren't necessarily appropriate for young children and that that's okay. Once again, I think the major problem people have with the businesses I mentioned is that the owners decided this for them.


I think your right, that is my issue with it.

As kids we were more then capable of sitting through a meal in a nice restaurant. My parents have a great photo of myself and my sister at the California grill, we had to have been 5 and 11 at the time. We were expected to be polite and respectful in a restaurant and we knew there were consequences should we not do so. Personally I think kids should learn that. There are times when kids can be kids, but there are many times that they should learn to act responsibly.

Certainly as a 12 year old (and to be fair much, much younger) we knew not to touch things in a store unless given prior permission.

If a child breaks something, you as the parent buy it. If your child is disruptive in a restaurant you gather yourself and leave... and hopefully have a discussion on the way home about appropriate behavior.

[Tekneek]

It would be better for parents to recognize that there are certain situations that aren't necessarily appropriate for young children and that that's okay. Once again, I think the major problem people have with the businesses I mentioned is that the owners decided this for them.

Indeed. Know your limitations, and those of your children, and do what you can to operate within them. These limitations aren't necessarily what you hope them to be, or expect them to be, and instead are simply what they are.


On our recent trip to France, my family noted that the majority of French children behave much differently in public than their American counterparts. I honestly don't know why. Different expectations and different ways of handling behavior is my guess.

I would agree with this.

[Tekneek]

I think your right, that is my issue with it.

I won't argue for the sour apple spoils the bunch philosophy that this represents. I argued against that in the discussions regarding Disney's new RFID soda dispensing program which treats everyone as if they're a cheater/stealer of drinks. Still, it is clear that businesses (and often society as a whole) finds it much easier to lump everyone together than simply deal with the specific issues.


We were expected to be polite and respectful in a restaurant and we knew there were consequences should we not do so. Personally I think kids should learn that. There are times when kids can be kids, but there are many times that they should learn to act responsibly.

Kids are always kids, regardless of how they're acting. I agree that children should be taught manners, and how to act like ladies and gentlemen. They will learn it much better if they are taught as children than already being adults.


Certainly as a 12 year old (and to be fair much, much younger) we knew not to touch things in a store unless given prior permission.

Indeed, but accidents can happen and children are more likely to make mistakes. Adults, particularly their parents, should strive to put children into situations where their mistakes are less likely to be extremely costly.

[BrerGnat]

I think it's important to realize that these kinds of decisions by businesses are not intended to be punishing the CHILDREN, it is punishing the PARENTS for not being parents. And, I stand by the businesses who make these rules. They have to pay the price when parents don't do their job.

I think most of us here would not be the kind of parents who would let their kids run wild in a store or yell up a storm in a restaurant. However, there are far too many irresponsible parents out there. FAR too many.

A couple years ago my younger son started acting up in the Art of Disney store in Epcot. He got a warning the first time. The second time, he pushed it and put his hands all over an oil painting after we explicitly told him not to touch it. He was swiftly removed from the store and his rear end had a nice meeting with DH's hand. He sat outside with DH until we were done in the store. Last week, we were at Epcot, and walked by the gallery. DS asked if we could go inside. You know what I told him? "No. We cannot. Last time we were in there you did not behave and you are not allowed to go back in there until you show me that you can follow directions." Since he had been acting up all week up to that point, the answer was no.

I wanted to go in the store, but we skipped it. Sacrifice is the name of the game sometimes when you have kids. Unfortunately, too many parents are unwilling to ever sacrifice anything and think they should be able to do what they want, regardless of how their kids behave. Sadly, I have a very close family member who is like this...and it drives me nuts!

[VWL Mom]

I think it's important to realize that these kinds of decisions by businesses are not intended to be punishing the CHILDREN, it is punishing the PARENTS for not being parents. And, I stand by the businesses who make these rules. They have to pay the price when parents don't do their job.

I think most of us here would not be the kind of parents who would let their kids run wild in a store or yell up a storm in a restaurant. However, there are far too many irresponsible parents out there. FAR too many.

A couple years ago my younger son started acting up in the Art of Disney store in Epcot. He got a warning the first time. The second time, he pushed it and put his hands all over an oil painting after we explicitly told him not to touch it. He was swiftly removed from the store and his rear end had a nice meeting with DH's hand. He sat outside with DH until we were done in the store. Last week, we were at Epcot, and walked by the gallery. DS asked if we could go inside. You know what I told him? "No. We cannot. Last time we were in there you did not behave and you are not allowed to go back in there until you show me that you can follow directions." Since he had been acting up all week up to that point, the answer was no.

I wanted to go in the store, but we skipped it. Sacrifice is the name of the game sometimes when you have kids. Unfortunately, too many parents are unwilling to ever sacrifice anything and think they should be able to do what they want, regardless of how their kids behave. Sadly, I have a very close family member who is like this...and it drives me nuts!

Well said Natalie!

[Aurora]

Unfortunately, too many parents are unwilling to ever sacrifice anything and think they should be able to do what they want, regardless of how their kids behave.

That's it in a nutshell, Natalie! You can encourage your child's natural curiosity, as someone posted above, in appropriate settings, like home, out in nature, or other places. But sorry, NOT in a furniture store! Every place in America is not open to children, and doesn't have to be!

I don't agree, though, that this policy is "punishing" anyone. You don't like it, go somewhere else. It's not like it's a nationwide policy at every restaurant. And you can even go to this particular restaurant before 7 p.m. with your kids if you like.

I have three kids, and they have not been, and continue not to be, angels. My oldest child was great in restaurants, my next one, not so much. We just stopped going until he was old enough to behave himself. That's life! No one is entitled to anything. Those who think they are should get over themselves.

[LauraF]

As kids we were more then capable of sitting through a meal in a nice restaurant. We were expected to be polite and respectful in a restaurant and we knew there were consequences should we not do so. Personally I think kids should learn that. There are times when kids can be kids, but there are many times that they should learn to act responsibly.
This.

I think its easily forgotten that going out to eat is a *treat*, one that would be taken away if my kids, assuming I had some, misbehaved. My parents made that very clear when I was little - this was a special event, and it was our own fault if we didn't behave.

[Patricia]

this was a special event, and it was our own fault if we didn't behave.

I think this may be where is differs now. We were seldom taken out to dinner as children, it was such a special treat that it was easy to behave. I know kids that are eating out 2-3 times a week.

As someone who operates a daycare, I have no problem tuning out kid noise. When I do eat out, I will pick a pub if I don't want to be with kids. (I'm not sure of all the state laws on this but in Canada children are not allowed in bars). In a restaurant if a child is acting up, I'd be the last person to notice, but I do see adults that are agitated by it.

[Tekneek]

I know kids that are eating out 2-3 times a week.

We probably did more of that when we had 1. With 2, we went out once a week. With 3, maybe once every two weeks. With 4, we eat out once a month (maybe less on average). We're a vegetarian/vegan family, so most of the restaurants aren't trying to get our business anyway.

[Middle of the Map]

I'm not sure what has happened to parents, but some have the idea their children can do whatever they please, wherever they please, and no one should say anything.

Some parents keep their youngsters out late, way past normal bedtime. I truly feel sorry for kids who are dead tired and cranky.

I wouldn't stand for a group of adults creating a disturbance in a place of business. While I understand young children have few coping mechanisms, I expect their parents to do the right thing when they start acting out.

Any business has a right to set its' own rules -- no shirt, no shoes, no smoking, etc.