Fast-food workers strike

[MNNHFLTX]

So I was reading this morning about the "walk out" of fast-food workers in major cities around the country, in protest over $7.25 federal minimum wage. Also read that what they are lobbying for is a pay increase to $15 an hour and the right to form unions without retaliation.

Your thoughts? Mine are mixed--I think that more than doubling the minimum wage is a bit unreasonable; I also think that the fast-food corporations would counter-act that by raising the price of their food items (which is already somewhat high, IMO, considering it's just fast-food) and turn to automation to cut down the number of employees. That, of course, would put those same workers back in the unemployment line. I think it's kind of sad that so many people rely on these types of jobs as their sole support; they should just be entry-level positions for teenagers or part-time for people looking to supplement other income or SS. I understand that it's the only job that some people can find out there, but should you expect to support a family being employed at that level in the fast-food industry? :confused:

Anyway, as usual let's keep politics out of the discussion as much as possible, please (hopefully we'll still have something to discuss). ;) And I also know we have members on the boards with strong opinions about unions, pro and con, so please keep it civil. I'm just looking for what everyone else's perspective is on this.

[DizneyRox]

I remember one night stopping at a local MickyD's and overhearing an argument between a worker and their boss. Something to the effect of they should be getting a quarter more an hour because they are a closer and not getting closer pay.

No way they are getting double the current minimum...

The current minimum is ridiculously low however. $7.25 is still significantly less than my first job ever which was after school in a retirement home. That was about 25 years ago!

I'm not sure how anyone can survive on that, at least not as a sole means of income.

[VWL Mom]

Around here starting wage is minimum wage but many times there is room for advancement. (DS worked for Domino's last summer). I find it almost laughable that they want to double their salary and get union benefits. What they fail to realize that if the pay scale was changed, the qualifications for the job would probably change too.

I agree that these jobs are not meant to support a family on. THey are geared more towards students and the like.

For goodness sake, we have a very well paid school district and when I substitute I get $12.50 an hour, no benefits.

[Katzateer]

Most retail jobs pay that wage - I work on a pharmacy and don't make much more than that. Lots of families live on that salary. I thought min. Wage was lower for food service but I guess that is for jobs that get tips.

Luckily my husband is working a professional job. I quit my good job to stay home with my kids and now I am not qualified for higher paying jobs after 20+ years out of the work force.

[DizneyRox]

Oh, let's also note that most of your Disney employees are making pretty close to this...

Florida minimum wage is: $7.79

They are expected to do a lot more than your typical burger flipper... I would guess this is also the reason for the decline in cast member quality in recent years. When I worked for the mouse, yearly raises were really just keeping up with the minimum wage laws.

[MississippiDisneyFreak]

I agree on raising the minimum but doubling, that's not reasonable. I know people in first responder jobs making way less than $15 an hour. Plus the food prices are going to sky rocket and who is going to pay $15 for a combo meal at a fast food restaurant when they can go to a nice family style sit down restaurant and eat for that, not me that's for sure.

[joonyer]

My 1st "real" job in high school. I made $1.65 per hour. Gasoline was only 25 cents per gal. but I did not have a car. Rode a bicycle to work.

It's impossible to rationally discuss the economics of min. wage laws without getting into the politics of it. I personally have the same opinion as Walter Williams, economics professor at George Mason Univ. If you are interested, you can look it up.
'nuff said.

[DisneyDINK]

There is a local family-owned burger chain in Seattle called Dick's. They have about 12 locations and they have been around since the 1950's. The food quality is great and the service is fast, smart and courteous. They never start anyone below $10.00/hour and they even provide 75% of employee health insurance. The family makes good money and a lot of it goes back to the community. They even pay regular hourly wage of up to 4 hours per week for any employee who does some sort of volunteer community service, and they aren't going broke; they're expanding. Can you believe that?

Take any major fast food chain: The front line workers make the state minimuim, or as little as possible and the CEO and corporate officers get very wealthy and the shareholders sometimes too. Keep in mind Washington where I live has the highest minimum wage in the country. Do you think there are fewer fast food joints here per capita than a state with just the Federal Minimum? No, it is about the same.

Where do you think I eat? McDonalds or Dick's?

It kind of sounds like a liberal rant, but I really don't want to live in a place like Mexico where you are either rich or poor. I think society overall benefits if we have more jobs paying wages you can actually live on.

We've got a minimum wage. How about a maximum wage? Congress will never debate that one. (OK, now I'm talking crazy.)

Regarding Disney, I have to admit that WDW vacations are very expensive for a LOT of families. I don't think any of us would ask for a price hike. I just wish there could be a sligh redistribution of wealth where the corporate officers made a slightly less insane amount of money, which would still make us all jealous and maybe the bottom levels who we have to deal with face-to-face could get a bit more. Yep, I'm dreaming.

[DisneyDINK]

My 1st "real" job in high school. I made $1.65 per hour. Gasoline was only 25 cents per gal. but I did not have a car. Rode a bicycle to work.

It's impossible to rationally discuss the economics of min. wage laws without getting into the politics of it. I personally have the same opinion as Walter Williams, economics professor at George Mason Univ. If you are interested, you can look it up.
'nuff said.

OK, I'm reading his essay now. It would be really cool of people had to say "in my opinion" before all normative statements. Thanks for mentioning him. Good read so far.

I like the way you strayed away from making a political statement too. Maybe I could learn from that.

[Arielfan98]

If people want more than $7.95 an hour I recommend they go to college and get a real job. As a teenager myself I am happy with the minimum wage because I don't have to pay taxes, housing, or gas. But quite frankly if grown adults aren't pleased with the wages offered at fast-food restaurants, don't work there. It has been made very clear that fast-food industries only offer minimum wage and if a grown adult cannot accept that before working there, then that's their loss. Of course I understand college is expensive, but if you work hard in school you are most likely to be offered scholarships and if money is saved up over time (even from a minimum wage job) it is attainable. Therefore, this protest is invalid.

[faline]

Tough topic. Folks who make minimum wage (or even more than that) often need to work more than one job to make ends meet. They also often live from paycheck to paycheck without the ability to put aside money for future needs.

It is not always possible to go to college - no matter how dedicated you are. Some folks can't go to college because of family needs; not everyone qualifies for a scholarship despite their best efforts before college. Also, in recent years, there have been many college educated folks who have been unable to obtain satisfactory employment at a living wage.

Can one double the minimum wage to $15 / hour? - probably not realistically. Many small businesses struggle to keep their doors open - the owners might even be bringing home less than those they employ. Would you really pay $4+ for a medium coffee every day? Or $20 for lunch at a roast beef sandwich shop? Or $40 for a pizza at the local pizza shop? I doubt that folks would - if they had been been paying 1/2 that the day before. People typically accept small increases in costs over a period of time but would likely shy away from larger increases.

It's a tough issue and there are no easy answers.

[Hammer]

If people want more than $7.95 an hour I recommend they go to college and get a real job. As a teenager myself I am happy with the minimum wage because I don't have to pay taxes, housing, or gas. But quite frankly if grown adults aren't pleased with the wages offered at fast-food restaurants, don't work there. It has been made very clear that fast-food industries only offer minimum wage and if a grown adult cannot accept that before working there, then that's their loss. Of course I understand college is expensive, but if you work hard in school you are most likely to be offered scholarships and if money is saved up over time (even from a minimum wage job) it is attainable. Therefore, this protest is invalid.

It's not that simple to be able to attend college. Scholarships aren't as easy to come by and will probably only cover part of the cost for college. That was the case for myself and my sister, and we went a highly regarded high school and were in the 10% of our class. Financial aid is tough to come by, as anyone who has had to deal with a college financial aid office can tell you. Many people I know saved up money for their childrens' college, but due to market volatility, the amount has decreased. The average cost of a 4 year college degree is close to $90,000. Both my sister and I have 4 year degrees, but it was a hard financially for us.

Regarding the raising of the minimun wage, $15 an hour is not a realistic number. Like Linda said, there isn't an easy answer.

[MNNHFLTX]

Would you really pay $4+ for a medium coffee every day? Isn't that what people do at Starbucks? ;)

Seriously--minimum wage laws aside, this is about people, not politics. At least that is what I thinking after reading everyone's responses. It just never occurred to me that people working in a pizza or burger joint would think that they should unionize or demand that their wages be doubled. I agree that it's kind of a known thing that certain jobs will pay minimum wage and that they are not jobs meant to establish your life's work on, nor support a family on. They are (or should be) stepping stones to employment requiring more advanced skills and therefore higher pay.

In a perfect world, people would have enough money for the necessities of life and some of the comforts. They would have the opportunity to advance their education and their careers, and they would be able to watch their children grow up to do the same. However, in a perfect world, people would also want to advance their education and careers, wait to have children until they could afford them, and be as frugal as possible so that they can afford all the necessities and the comforts. And while I support raising the minimum wage to a certain extent, I do not see how that will resolve the situation.

[MNNHFLTX]

I just wish there could be a sligh redistribution of wealth where the corporate officers made a slightly less insane amount of money, which would still make us all jealous and maybe the bottom levels who we have to deal with face-to-face could get a bit more.I do agree with this. Salaries for some of the top tier in corporate American are obscene. This probably includes the CEOs of Burger King and McDonald's.

[Tiggerlovr9000]

If people want more than $7.95 an hour I recommend they go to college and get a real job. As a teenager myself I am happy with the minimum wage because I don't have to pay taxes, housing, or gas. But quite frankly if grown adults aren't pleased with the wages offered at fast-food restaurants, don't work there. It has been made very clear that fast-food industries only offer minimum wage and if a grown adult cannot accept that before working there, then that's their loss. Of course I understand college is expensive, but if you work hard in school you are most likely to be offered scholarships and if money is saved up over time (even from a minimum wage job) it is attainable. Therefore, this protest is invalid.

The get a real job part of this post is part of our problem. People who work in fast food are not respected. They work as hard as anyone in a bank but because they sell burgers instead of loan money they are considered inferior. You can work your way up in the fast food industry. The tellers at our bank make close to minimum wage and they can work their way up too. Raising the minimum wage is just a vicious cycle where wage goes up then burgers go up etc.

[LauraF]

If people want more than $7.95 an hour I recommend they go to college and get a real job. As a teenager myself I am happy with the minimum wage because I don't have to pay taxes, housing, or gas. But quite frankly if grown adults aren't pleased with the wages offered at fast-food restaurants, don't work there. It has been made very clear that fast-food industries only offer minimum wage and if a grown adult cannot accept that before working there, then that's their loss. Of course I understand college is expensive, but if you work hard in school you are most likely to be offered scholarships and if money is saved up over time (even from a minimum wage job) it is attainable. Therefore, this protest is invalid.

If only it were that simple. I understand where you're coming from - I used to think much the same way at your age.

For us all, beyond the issues raised about getting scholarships and finding a job after college, which can't be dismissed, there is being pigeonholed. For example, a good friend of mine would love to stop being a retail store manager, but since she has done this for 10 years so she could have a flexible schedule to raise her kids, nobody will consider her experience may be transferable to other industries.

There are more issues than working hard. If that were the only part of the equation, then we'd have a different situation on our hands.

I just don't know that more money in minimum wage is the best answer. The easy answer is to then pass the costs along to consumers, whcih never works out. But a union isn't a bad idea . . . speaking as a former union girl! At least then there would be leverage for the important issues, assuming the union is good one.

Either way, I feel for those trying to survive and raise children on minimum wage. They have my respect as they work harder than most of us realize. I struggle enough, and I'm well above the poverty level now!

[sportsguy2315]

In a lighter note to this, they were showing video of the protests on the news last night when a very muscular man in a tank top comes walking by with a sign that read: "I AM a man". :D

...Maybe he was at the wrong protest?

[Capt_redshirt]

If people want more than $7.95 an hour I recommend they go to college and get a real job. As a teenager myself I am happy with the minimum wage because I don't have to pay taxes, housing, or gas. But quite frankly if grown adults aren't pleased with the wages offered at fast-food restaurants, don't work there. It has been made very clear that fast-food industries only offer minimum wage and if a grown adult cannot accept that before working there, then that's their loss. Of course I understand college is expensive, but if you work hard in school you are most likely to be offered scholarships and if money is saved up over time (even from a minimum wage job) it is attainable. Therefore, this protest is invalid.

While I agree that College is the way to go there is 2 problems with your plan. in most fields finding a job out of college is difficult no matter where you went to school. The majority of college grads go back to retail positions (if they are not considered "over qualified') and have to deal with minimum wage. also the new scholar ships and federal grants out there only pay about 25% of the average tuition for any student. My average student loan payment for my degree that i cant find a job in is roughly $650 dollars a month and those that gave me the money dont care that i havent gotten a job in my field. Retail jobs in my state are about a dollar over the national minimum wage. but anyone who lives in CT knows how expensive it is to live here. While i Agree 15 an hour plus union is completely over the top (for the main fact that a good portion of that money will just go back into union dues) a small increase to 10 an hour would be reasonable

[DVC2004]

I have to share this: Yesterday my husband wanted KFC for dinner. We went through the drive through. I was discussing the strike with him. He ordered the special meal deal which was advertised on the big sign in front of the speaker. It included the 10 piece new hot shot chicken bites or whatever they are called and the usual things. Had to repeat the order twice. When we got home, there were no hot shot chicken bites. He called and we didn't want to drive all the way back so they apologized and supposedly are mailing us coupons for next time. We will see if they remember to do that.

Deserving of a raise? I have to say my order twice and then I am missing part of it. I wish I could say this was rare but happens alot, at least to us. I should have known to check the bag. We also went to the movies recently, another minimum wage paying job, waited in line then ordered our tickets. The woman working there was too busy looking at her coworker that I had to repeat myself three times. When things like this happen, it is irritating. If I did my job so poorly I wouldn't have one. Yet others can't even do the minimum required- smile, take your order, thank you, ensure that it is correct but expect more.

[Scar]

For those of you advocating the CEO's giving up some of their $ to the workers, here's one crude calculation.

(According to Forbes) Robert Iger makes $40M a year. There are 150,000 employees. Let's say he gives back half (how many of you would give up half your salary to help others in your company?) That comes to less than $0.07 an hour per employee. Now, we can debate if Iger is worth his salary in another thread, but I think it's more important to compensate a good CEO than give all your employee's a 7 cent raise.

[PopPhan]

For those of you advocating the CEO's giving up some of their $ to the workers, here's one crude calculation.

(According to Forbes) Robert Iger makes $40M a year. There are 150,000 employees. Let's say he gives back half (how many of you would give up half your salary to help others in your company?) That comes to less than $0.07 an hour per employee. Now, we can debate if Iger is worth his salary in another thread, but I think it's more important to compensate a good CEO than give all your employee's a 7 cent raise.

That's a nice analogy, but it would not just be Iger giving back part of his salary, it would be ALL above a certain managerial level -- say, for example, all at VP level or above.

BUT, what the real concern is, to me, is how do we justify a top level management position paying 2000 times what 'line level' employees earn?

Do I agree with these fast food employees 'striking' for double wages and a union? No, not in the least, but I do believe that an increase to $9 - $10 per hour would probably be fair.

I do not believe that a union, for this type of position, would be in their best interest. These are not 'slave labor' jobs, but rather 'transient' jobs -- move from one outfit to another, for about the same pay and benefits.

JM2CW

[MNNHFLTX]

For those of you advocating the CEO's giving up some of their $ to the workers, here's one crude calculation.

(According to Forbes) Robert Iger makes $40M a year. There are 150,000 employees. Let's say he gives back half (how many of you would give up half your salary to help others in your company?) That comes to less than $0.07 an hour per employee. Now, we can debate if Iger is worth his salary in another thread, but I think it's more important to compensate a good CEO than give all your employee's a 7 cent raise.Personally, I'd like to see more CEO's or former CEO's use some of their multi-millions/billions for the greater good, like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. But that's fodder for another thread. ;)

[Arielfan98]

Because of the recent posts I would like to change my words. I never meant to say college was easy to afford and I apologize if I offended anyone. My sister requires many loans to get her through college but it seems like no matter what happens we are always able to pull through and afford a Disney vacation once a year :mickey: I am very lucky and am doing the best I can to earn scholarships. However, I do live in the highest taxed county in America and my parents work hard for their money. We are middle-class (not wealthy) yet it seems my parents are always able to pull through with me and my sister's education. I am very fortunate but what I was trying to say was that I don't think fast-food workers should have a salary double the minimum wage. As others have said it would cost close to $10 for a burger. I think a better solution is to find a better job and perhaps workers should strike for better paying wages for waitressing like in Europe where they get paid well enough that tips would not be necessary.

[Scar]

That's a nice analogy, but it would not just be Iger giving back part of his salary, it would be ALL above a certain managerial level -- say, for example, all at VP level or above.But that's just unrealistic. There will always be some other company willing to lure high level employees away. And most (probably almost all) would leave for the money.

[Scar]

Personally, I'd like to see more CEO's or former CEO's use some of their multi-millions/billions for the greater good, like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. But that's fodder for another thread. ;)And many probably do. We just don't hear about it. I know my old boss used to donate a lot to charity (I kept the books.) Most people wish to remain anonymous when being charitable.

[DisneyDINK]

For those of you advocating the CEO's giving up some of their $ to the workers, here's one crude calculation.

(According to Forbes) Robert Iger makes $40M a year. There are 150,000 employees. Let's say he gives back half (how many of you would give up half your salary to help others in your company?) That comes to less than $0.07 an hour per employee. Now, we can debate if Iger is worth his salary in another thread, but I think it's more important to compensate a good CEO than give all your employee's a 7 cent raise.

I defimately see your point, but there are more "questionably" overpaid executives out there besides Iger. There are many levels of management who make excellent salaries. Maybe the $0.07 could look more like $0.50 or a dollar. I'm a shareholder. Maybe reduce my income by lowering the $0.75 dividend per share to $0.70. You add all of that up and maybe you start to put a dent in the problem.

Take half Iger's salary and he's still very very rich. How will he live making only $20MM? Just fine. Take half the salary of someone making $200,000, $100,000 - yeah they'll have a lot of tough choices to make, but they'll be OK. Take someone making $30,000/yr and reduce it by half and you have $15,000/yr - the minimum wage. Think of the choices they have to make.

Scar - I really don't disagree with you, I'm just making the counter argument. More than anything I think of this in a exercise in compassion. I make a good income and I love having money, but I don't want to live in a place where I forget about the people at the bottom.

[NJGIRL]

Sorry but I believe everyone in this country has the same chance to make millions of dollars. Look at some of the millionaires out there. They started with nothing and worked hard. IMO the problem with people now is that they don't want to work hard and save for things. They want it now...and have things regardless if they can afford it or not.

Minium wage jobs are unskilled jobs. If you start raising the wage for unskilled workers then what about your skilled workers who were making $15 an hour. Either you will have to raise their wages also or you will create a country with people who have no incentive to work hard to have the kind of life style they want.

I agree with the person who said this can't fully be discussed without bringing politics into it.

I can't tell you how many people I see with $300 sneakers, Smart phones, and their nails done (all of which I cant afford and I my husband and I make decent money)who are in line at the grocery store with food stamps.

I am not cold to the hard working people out there struggling to make a living, but giving min wage a huge jump without people bettering themselves will have a snowball effect again on the middle class.

[MNNHFLTX]

And many probably do. We just don't hear about it. I know my old boss used to donate a lot to charity (I kept the books.) Most people wish to remain anonymous when being charitable.I hope you're right, Jeff, but I have my doubts. My husband's work has him mingling in the corporate world of Big Oil (but in middle-management, not a CEO) and the big-whigs that he comes across are pretty conspicuous spenders. I highly doubt they part with much of their money.

Of course, you don't have to be a millionaire to be charitable. What's the saying? That "charity starts at home". :)

[MNNHFLTX]

I can't tell you how many people I see with $300 sneakers, Smart phones, and their nails done (all of which I cant afford and I my husband and I make decent money)who are in line at the grocery store with food stamps.

I am not cold to the hard working people out there struggling to make a living, but giving min wage a huge jump without people bettering themselves will have a snowball effect again on the middle class.I agree, Rita. And doubling minimum wage wouldn't solve the problem, just create more problems. That was kind of what I was referring to in one of my posts--that in a perfect world everyone would have the opportunity to better their education and livelihood and everyone would want to better their education and livelihood. Sadly, that is not true. And I do feel like people have choices early on in life; if they do not apply themselves, if they do not make smart decisions, if they do not care, I do not feel that they should be compensated the same as those that do. But how to deal with those who have tried and are trying but can't seem to catch a break? That's the question.

I also believe that many people have forgotten the importance of being frugal and living within their means. My husband and I make a decent living too, but at the grocery store I swear I am the only one there using coupons. Back when money was tight I just got used to trying to save as much as possible, and I'm certainly not going to stop now. We are probably the only people on the planet that don't have a huge flat-screen TV. Every time we talk about getting one, we always come back to--the one we have works fine, so let's wait a while. Weighs a ton, but works fine. ;)

[NJGIRL]

I also believe that many people have forgotten the importance of being frugal and living within their means. My husband and I make a decent living too, but at the grocery store I swear I am the only one there using coupons.

We are probably the only people on the planet that don't have a huge flat-screen TV. Every time we talk about getting one, we always come back to--the one we have works fine, so let's wait a while. Weighs a ton, but works fine. ;)

Haha....I used coupons too, shop at Walmart and NEVER see anyone else with coupons there.


Flat-screen....make that two of us. We don't have one either. lol

When I was growing up my father worked 3 jobs. During the week, one during the day and one at night and on the weekends the third. His family didn't have a lot of money and he didn't go to college, BUT while working three jobs he took at home college courses and got his two year degree. He pursued licenses in his field that only two other people in the state had. I guess my point is, that if you want it bad enough you can do it.

College isn't the only way to go either. Working in the trades you can make a good living and the military is another way to go.

I just think if you are in a dead end job, then it is your responsibility to change that, no one elses.

[Lindsey]

I also believe that many people have forgotten the importance of being frugal and living within their means.

I agree with this 100%. My husband and I purposely live below our means. We like to have a lot of money saved, both for emergencies and for our retirement. Currently we have enough saved, (in our regular savings, not our retirement savings), that if my husband were to be out of work for 3 years we could continue to live our lives as we do now without worry, but we could manage even longer if we cut spending. My husband and I both grew up in poor families, so we are careful with our money.


College isn't the only way to go either. Working in the trades you can make a good living and the military is another way to go.

I'm in agreement with this too. My husband managed to go to collage, (he is super smart and got a full scholarship), but I didn't. At first I regretted not attempting collage, but it turns out that I didn't really need to go. I opened my own business and I have been very successful. I make a good living and collage was not required.

There are people in this country who sadly were not brought up with a good work ethic, or with any advice on how to save money, or with even a general idea of how to improve their lives. I witness this with my sister's ex-husband. The man is incredibly lazy, even his kids know it. They see how hard their mother works, their aunts and uncles, and then they see their father. It's sad, but I'm glad that they can see the difference. Hopefully that will keep them from being like him when they are adults.

Of course there are other examples of people who have experienced real suffering in their lives, and that does affect their employment. But that is not the case for the majority of people.

[Hammer]

My husband and I make a decent living too, but at the grocery store I swear I am the only one there using coupons. Back when money was tight I just got used to trying to save as much as possible, and I'm certainly not going to stop now. We are probably the only people on the planet that don't have a huge flat-screen TV. Every time we talk about getting one, we always come back to--the one we have works fine, so let's wait a while. Weighs a ton, but works fine. ;)


Haha....I used coupons too, shop at Walmart and NEVER see anyone else with coupons there.

Flat-screen....make that two of us. We don't have one either. lol

Another coupon user here! While I do see a few people at Shoprite or Wegmans with coupon, most do not.

I do have a flat screen TV, but it is hardly the latest model and is not super fancy. When I was putting together my Mom's room in my house, I apologized to her as she has an old 19 inch box TV in her room. She said do not waste money on a fancy TV that is used only 3-4 weeks out of the year and her shows look just fine :tv: !



College isn't the only way to go either. Working in the trades you can make a good living and the military is another way to go.


I agree. Military service is great career path. Even if you only do one term (I think it is 2 or 4 years) That's money which can be used to go to college or skills training. While one of Dad's best friends did go to college, he made the Marines his career and retired a Colonel.



I also believe that many people have forgotten
the importance of being frugal and living within their means.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. And it is not just people who use food stamps and then buy expensive things. It is present iatall economic levels. There are so many people who care so much about having the right car, living in the right neighborhood, that their kids look and dress a certain way, etc, that they don't take care of basic things like paying the mortgage or saving for retirement!