DHS Expansion

[ValenciaCalling]

Sorry if this is a double post, but I can't find a similar thread on the rumors board.

Who's read the article on Theme Park Insider about the DHS expansion, and what does everyone think of it?

[Dario]

I hope it is true...but i would not hold my breath. I hope they dont touch the Muppets!:number1:

[azcavalier]

Some time back I swear I read something about Lights, Motor, Action getting taken down and the Pixar area expanding into that space with an east coast version of CarsLand. I would love to see that. Can't remember where I read it, though. I also read that the Beauty and the Beast stage show would be coming to an end, but haven't seen that happen either.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Here is my question: how can we call something an expansion when they are only reusing the land they currently have, and not expanding? Not really an expansion, just a re-imagining...

As for the plans on TPI, Carsland, as reported by tikiman here and elsewhere, is off the table... Star Wars land has been put on the table... but not in the area they described... Look for tikiman's posts here to see where the proposed Star Wars land is thought to be going... I'm sure the two plots of land have been looked at though...

I guess we shall see if TPI is right this time... Their Universal information is much more accurate than their Disney info... But who knows? I said it before, I'll say it again: Disney needs to WOW me again to get me to ever set foot back into WDW... This could be a start (minus Cars Land.. Keep it exclusive to DCA)...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Some time back I swear I read something about Lights, Motor, Action getting taken down and the Pixar area expanding into that space with an east coast version of CarsLand. I would love to see that. Can't remember where I read it, though. I also read that the Beauty and the Beast stage show would be coming to an end, but haven't seen that happen either.

Plans still call for BatB to leave DHS, along with Mermaid... This should happen as part of the DHS make over, just don't expect it to happen any time soon...

[disneynarula]

I hope it's true as well. That park needs some upgrading! Even if it isn't an "expansion" it will be something new.

It will be a good reason for us to go back as we are not frequent fliers.

I have a hard time convincing DH to go back and this just might do it. Since we go every three years and plan on a trip in 2014 then 2018would be just about right for us!

[DizneyFreak2002]

Maybe we should be saying good bye to the Muppets after all (at least this version of it)... And Osbourne Family Lights... and backstage areas where the parade float barns once were (ok, using this land, I will then be able to call it an expansion of the park, kind of )... All fluid right now, nothing set in stone... But TPI seems to have been leaked an actual proposed plan regarding Star Wars in DHS (which may be getting another new name)... Jedi Training Academy taking over Sounds Dangerous and American Idol (which may be leaving sooner than later?)...

2018 does seem to be the target completion date...

[BrerGnat]

I am all for it. DHS isn't even a "must do" for us.

They need to revamp it, a la DCA. And while they are at it, they need to fix the dining situation over there, particularly the CS offerings.

I have nothing negative to say about either Star Wars land or Carsland (or Pixar land...whatever) being put into DHS. Bring it on!

[joanna71985]

I don't want Muppets to go. There are plenty of other things that can go first

[PirateLover]

I also do not want Muppets to go. I've said this a bunch on these boards but I don't even want an updated movie. Muppet*Vision is the last project Jim Henson worked on before his untimely passing. Of course I'm partial because I love the Muppets, but I still think the video holds up well, and I love the theme of the backstage pre-show area. I don't care about anything else, although I will repeat that I don't want a dupe of Carsland to come to DHS. It is amazing in DCA and I don't even like Cars. I feel like making a duplicate would really cheapen it. A Cars ride, fine, but come up with a new original theme.

[DizneyFreak2002]

MaryAnne, if what has been spread online is true, it would be a cheaper version of Cars Land.. RSR will not be the same ride, in fact, it would be completely different... The beauty that makes the current Cars Land what it is will not make its way over to DHS... The Cars ride would be a dark ride, not using the current Test Track/RSR ride systems... And Luigi's Tires (is that the name of the ride?) won't be coming either.. Which isn't really a loss... I'd expect Flo's to make its way over (especially if the rumored removal of Mama Melrose, Backlot Express and Sci-Fi are true)...

The new Star Wars area, as stated by some online, will include a new E-ticket.. I think, based on the description, we can figure out which movies this added Star Wars area will be themed to... The E-ticket (which will be build on the land currently occupied by Indy Stunk Show) is rumored to be a Speeder Bike coaster... The Speeder Bikes are from Return of the Jedi, the flying bikes Luke and Leia rode on Endor... Also, Mos Eisley Cantina will be part of the new addition, as well as a new Star Wars show set for the theater where MuppetVision 3D current resides... This show will be the same show that is designed for DLP which is replacing Captain EO...

Osbourne Family Lights would have its final run in 2014, as 2015 is when the project is expected to go full throttle... DHS during this time will be hurting for sure.... Especially if they close everything all at once...

Again, these are rumors... And in the theme park industry, we all know plans change every minute.. One plan did not call for Muppets to leave... another plan does...

[PirateLover]

a new Star Wars show set for the theater where MuppetVision 3D current resides... This show will be the same show that is designed for DLP which is replacing Captain EO...
Sorry, you have me a bit confused here. So part of the rumor is that a Star Wars show will take over Muppet Theater, and then what will replace Captain EO? I saw someone on another site posit that Muppets could be moved over to Imagination, but I wasn't sure if this is what you were saying too. Could you clarify what you mean?

Overall I am gung-ho for Star Wars expansion. I just have a sentimental spot in my heart for the Muppets, but I recognize that their current location is not ideal if DHS is looking to expand other properties. If this were to happen, I would be happy if they gained a presence in EPCOT again. Muppet Mobile Labs used to float around there, and there were other Muppet characters announced to be part of the Living Character Initiative. Perhaps if Muppets Most Wanted (The movie coming out next year) has another good showing, they will keep the Muppet presence in the parks.

[PirateLover]

Also I head a rumor that if Streets of America goes bye-bye, Osborne Lights could be moved to Downtown Disney... or Disney Springs, whatever the heck it is ;) Thoughts?

[DizneyFreak2002]

Also I head a rumor that if Streets of America goes bye-bye, Osborne Lights could be moved to Downtown Disney... or Disney Springs, whatever the heck it is ;) Thoughts?

Not from people who are trusted... Osbourne Lights, if removed from DHS, will not move to Disney Springs... Too much of a crowd control nightmare...

Epcot on the other hand...

[Ian]

I'd be shocked if they did away with the Osborne Lights. They're a huge draw for locals during the holidays.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I'd be shocked if they did away with the Osborne Lights. They're a huge draw for locals during the holidays.
Not like they ever did away with a popular holiday addition (LoW)...

As of now, if the rumors (which are credible, partly) wind up becoming the actual plans, 2014 is the last Osbourne Lights offering... Where they go from there, who knows?

But again, things change.. Disney always changes plans.. or never follows up with announcements... By time any DHS make over is completed, 100,000 proposals would have been discussed and value engineered down to a meet and greet lol...

I still think Epcot should be the destination if in fact Osboune Lights leave DHS...

[DizneyFreak2002]

What would you think of the name Disney's Hollywood Adventure? Too close to Islands of Adventure? Unoriginal?

[Elias1901]

I'm holding out any of my own thoughts until I attend the Walt Disney Parks & Resorts Panel at the Disney D23 Expo, this August. That would be a good as any to make a big announcement! :thumbsup:

[potzie]

What would you think of the name Disney's Hollywood Adventure? Too close to Islands of Adventure? Unoriginal?

Jeez, why not just call it Disney's Hollywood Kingdom and move on? I thought of that in 10 secs which seems about how long they must have spent thinking of Disney's Hollywood Adventure.

Maybe Disney Hollywood Springs? There's another.

:unsure:

[DizneyFreak2002]

Sorry, you have me a bit confused here. So part of the rumor is that a Star Wars show will take over Muppet Theater, and then what will replace Captain EO? I saw someone on another site posit that Muppets could be moved over to Imagination, but I wasn't sure if this is what you were saying too. Could you clarify what you mean?

Overall I am gung-ho for Star Wars expansion. I just have a sentimental spot in my heart for the Muppets, but I recognize that their current location is not ideal if DHS is looking to expand other properties. If this were to happen, I would be happy if they gained a presence in EPCOT again. Muppet Mobile Labs used to float around there, and there were other Muppet characters announced to be part of the Living Character Initiative. Perhaps if Muppets Most Wanted (The movie coming out next year) has another good showing, they will keep the Muppet presence in the parks.

Sorry just saw this...

One of the plans has Star Wars taking over Muppet Theater in DHS, probably with the Star Wars show that is making its way to DLP... The Star Wars show is replacing Captain EO in Paris, not in WDW...

Another plan has the Muppets staying put... A third plan has the Muppets leaving the current theater and taking residence elsewhere in DHS... So it seems to depend with version of the plan they go with... Also, if Muppets stay put, that doesn't mean a ner Muppets attraction won't replace the current one...

Some of those rumors out there are people just adding their own ideas, hoping for their 15 minutes of Disney fan online community fame... But you can quickly weed those people out, like the ones who say they heard a rumor Muppets are taking over Imagination... Not one of the plans currently on the table...

[DizneyFreak2002]

I'm holding out any of my own thoughts until I attend the Walt Disney Parks & Resorts Panel at the Disney D23 Expo, this August. That would be a good as any to make a big announcement! :thumbsup:

What would you think if I told you people at D23 were ticked off these plans were leaked online because this pretty much stole their thunderous announcement???? ;)

Disney internal politics at its best (or worst)...

[PopPhan]

What would you think of the name Disney's Hollywood Adventure? Too close to Islands of Adventure? Unoriginal?

How about Disney's Audio Visual Experience....or more simply - DAVE!! :D

[Elias1901]

What would you think if I told you people at D23 were ticked off these plans were leaked online because this pretty much stole their thunderous announcement???? ;)

Disney internal politics at its best (or worst)...

The New Fantasyland announcement was no different. Except there was tons of revisions from the original concept presented. In terms of getting rid of all the princess houses, at least.

[DizneyFreak2002]

How about Disney's Audio Visual Experience....or more simply - DAVE!! :D

I know you are probably joking here about Universal creating screen based attraction... But in all honesty, I think I would rather screen based rides which take me into the ride, the action, rather than a ride based on show scenes with AAs that are always broke, never show ready, like the AAs in Splash are prone to do, and Yeti who has been in disco mode for 7 years now???


The New Fantasyland announcement was no different. Except there was tons of revisions from the original concept presented. In terms of getting rid of all the princess houses, at least.

Same thing here... this is one group inside Disney which, for some reason, has something against D23... Leaking the plans were a way to steal D23's thunder... I am not sure how well it worked though... Sure, the thunder of a surprising announcement is gone, but I think this is creating major anticipation this year, wanting to hear the announcement and the details which were not leaked... Though I have heard the ride is going to be a speeder bike coaster (using the Tron ride system going into Shanghai, which will be a light bike coaster)... D23 almost has to announce this now, or else this will be 2 failed conventions in a row, and could be the end of D23...

[DizneyRox]

I can't believe that D23 is still around...

They seem to be treated worse than the old red headed step child (The Disney Stores). I guess there's someone buying into it, they even created a new level for DVC ('free') and I couldn't be bothered to sign up.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Star Wars area will include an E ticket, possible C ticket (which will take over the Muppets theater), and food and beverage offerings which will replace Pizza Planet, Backlot Express, and Mam Melrose...

The Cars area will feature an E ticket and B ticket... Mater's Junkyard Jamboree will probably be cloned, but the E ticket will NOT be RSR or anything close to it... Plus, food/beverage/retail...

This project is scheduled to begin this fall... and continue through 2018... Kiss the back third of the park adios...

Don't freak out Muppets fans, Muppets will likely be staying, just not in the current location... I have a feeling Muppets will wind up taking over Voyage of the Little Mermaid.. I can't think where else it would go...

[Gator]

Man, just two weeks ago we were hearing how Disney would never do this. So I'm excited that details are starting to come out on this, because that means it's probably going to happen.

I guess the big question is this: why wasn't CarsLand being built yesterday? Everyone knew it would be a great idea when it started over at DCA. I know that Disneyland needed a nationwide-attractor. But with two years into making it in CA, WDW should've had this going at Christmas. That way, they could really get the smoke going on a 25th party for DHS at the end of 2014 - with new attractions and everything.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I can't believe that D23 is still around...

They seem to be treated worse than the old red headed step child (The Disney Stores). I guess there's someone buying into it, they even created a new level for DVC ('free') and I couldn't be bothered to sign up.

Some people are suggesting this year's expo is the last one... And honestly, the D23 membership is not worth it... Not for the magazine which you can pick up in Barnes N Noble if you really want it that bad...

As for this year's expo, no Disney Parks Upcoming Projects panel... Whether that means no announcement at D23 is yet to be seen... We may actually wind up with the announcement PRIOR to D23, and only models/concept art available for viewing at the expo...


Man, just two weeks ago we were hearing how Disney would never do this. So I'm excited that details are starting to come out on this, because that means it's probably going to happen.

I guess the big question is this: why wasn't CarsLand being built yesterday? Everyone knew it would be a great idea when it started over at DCA. I know that Disneyland needed a nationwide-attractor. But with two years into making it in CA, WDW should've had this going at Christmas. That way, they could really get the smoke going on a 25th party for DHS at the end of 2014 - with new attractions and everything.

Cars Land did not happen and will not happen in the DCA form... Do NOT expect RSR... Tikiman, a well informed member here has stated why... However, the E-ticket will be a Cars dark ride of some sort... Mater's Junkyard Jamboree may wind up cloned...

[Katzateer]

Not from people who are trusted... Osbourne Lights, if removed from DHS, will not move to Disney Springs... Too much of a crowd control nightmare...

Epcot on the other hand...

EPCOT would be perfect - it has been a big let down as far as holiday lights for the last few years.

All these ideas for expansion at HS is making my head spin- hope they can make the park more interesting without getting rid of too much of the classic areas ( don't take away my Muppets and Sci Fi. :( ). If they are in the middle of areas needed, just relocate them.

[Goofy Fan]

This is all interesting news and I, for one, am very much looking forward to a Star Wars-themed land. :thumbsup:

With that said, I've heard some disturbing rumors today on a Star Wars message board from someone who claims that this has come from a reliable source. Apparently it calls for Star Wars Land to be rolled out in two phases, with the second phase set to completely engulf the Echo Lake area and (this is what really worried me) an E-Ticket attraction to replace The Great Movie Ride and the Chinese Theater as a whole. It also went on to say that American Idol will remain untouched and dormant for this entire thing.

I was just curious about the validity of these reports. I have my doubts, but I guess you never know. I sure hope they aren't true!

[DizneyFreak2002]

This is all interesting news and I, for one, am very much looking forward to a Star Wars-themed land. :thumbsup:

With that said, I've heard some disturbing rumors today on a Star Wars message board from someone who claims that this has come from a reliable source. Apparently it calls for Star Wars Land to be rolled out in two phases, with the second phase set to completely engulf the Echo Lake area and (this is what really worried me) an E-Ticket attraction to replace The Great Movie Ride and the Chinese Theater as a whole. It also went on to say that American Idol will remain untouched and dormant for this entire thing.

I was just curious about the validity of these reports. I have my doubts, but I guess you never know. I sure hope they aren't true!

Don't listen to that rumor.. Great Movie Ride and the Chinese Theater are not going to be swallowed up by any Star Wars expansion... Echo Lake on the other hand probably will be... Great Movie Ride is safe, other than maybe some updates (which it needs)...

Muppets and Mama Melrose probably will be as well...

[Goofy Fan]

Cheers! That put my mind at ease! Getting rid of the park icon and such a classic attraction would've really ticked me off. Although, I do agree - it does need to be updated. That's something I will be looking forward to.

Thank you for all of your information so far! :mickey:

[DizneyFreak2002]

Cheers! That put my mind at ease! Getting rid of the park icon and such a classic attraction would've really ticked me off. Although, I do agree - it does need to be updated. That's something I will be looking forward to.

Thank you for all of your information so far! :mickey:

Just remember, these are all rumors... Until the land/attractions are built and open, anything is open to change or being cut or not happening at all... And you are all welcome for the information... Anything I hear or read I will continue to bring to the members here...

[CaptSmee]

There's not a lot of broom for expansion here unless they move the parking lot, or fill in the lake. I'm all for some re-imagining, but not if it involves losing Muppets or The great movie ride. There are other movies other than Pixar one's

[DizneyFreak2002]

There's not a lot of broom for expansion here unless they move the parking lot, or fill in the lake. I'm all for some re-imagining, but not if it involves losing Muppets or The great movie ride. There are other movies other than Pixar one's

The park will not be losing Great Movie Ride...

Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular, Lights, Motors Action, Back Lot Tour, Sounds Dangerous, Mam Melrose, Pizza Planet, Muppets (MAYBE), Sci Fi Dine In Theater, Echo Lake will be what gets the chop to make way for:

Star Wars Land consisting of an E ticket attraction based on the speeder bikes from Return of the Jedi (the bikes Leia and Luke rode when chasing the Storm Trooper through the forest on Endor), a C ticket show which will go in the Muppets theater, Mos Eisley Cantina, an indoors Jedi Training Academy...

Cars/Pixar: Cars Land type area would take over LMA and part of the back lot tour which features Catastrophy Canyon and will feature dining (probably a clone of Flo's), A C ticket (probably Mater's Junkyard Jamboree), and an E ticket (no, not a clone of RSR, but a Cars dark ride), and merchandise, plus the possibility of another Pixar IP getting an attraction (maybe the long rumored but never started Monsters Inc Coaster which is set to be installed in DCA, maybe a clone of the Ratatouille ride going into DLP, or maybe an IP not used which deserves attention INCREDIBLES)...

[big blue and hairy]

I would be really sad if Muppet-vision goes away. I would be fine if it moved, but it is a classic. That said, I am stoked for the additions to DHS.

The one thing that should be brought back immediately, is the Magic of Disney Animation. It was by far my favorite part of the park. Now it could be two pronged, with traditional animation and computer animation. Disney and Pixar are the best at both. Bring it back!

And while you're at it, make the Robin Williams stuff from the old tour available somehow. What classics!

:sulley:

[Stu29573]

The sad thing is that they actually had it right when they opened. The idea of a working studeo that showed behind the scenes aspects of production was great. The Monster Sound Show, Superstar TV, The Animation Building were all wonderful. Then it completely lost focus. The place still doesnt know what it is supposed to be, and Im not convinced the expansion is going to help it in this aspect. Ok, it may make the place more entertaining, but without focus and an over arching theme, its doomed....

[DizneyFreak2002]

The sad thing is that they actually had it right when they opened. The idea of a working studeo that showed behind the scenes aspects of production was great. The Monster Sound Show, Superstar TV, The Animation Building were all wonderful. Then it completely lost focus. The place still doesnt know what it is supposed to be, and Im not convinced the expansion is going to help it in this aspect. Ok, it may make the place more entertaining, but without focus and an over arching theme, its doomed....

Disney, I don't think, cares about a cohesive theme for DHS... They are worried about the attendance figures and merchandise sales... DHS is the lowest performing park as far as merchandise sales go, and TEA really over estimated DHS attendance figures... DHS is ripe to be taken over by IOA and Uni by 2015 (if it hasn't already as some suggest has happened)... Disney knows this... That is why they want to put in Cars and Star Wars, two IPs which will sell merchandise by the boat loads and boost attendance... Of course, the park will also be rebranded, so I would assume the STUDIOS part will finally be put to sleep...

[Stu29573]

Disney, I don't think, cares about a cohesive theme for DHS... They are worried about the attendance figures and merchandise sales... DHS is the lowest performing park as far as merchandise sales go, and TEA really over estimated DHS attendance figures... DHS is ripe to be taken over by IOA and Uni by 2015 (if it hasn't already as some suggest has happened)... Disney knows this... That is why they want to put in Cars and Star Wars, two IPs which will sell merchandise by the boat loads and boost attendance... Of course, the park will also be rebranded, so I would assume the STUDIOS part will finally be put to sleep...

How about "Disney' s Misfit Park."
Or " Disney's Clueless Adventure"
Or just "Oops!"

I guess they could also accurately call it "The Park Stu Doesn't Bother With Any More" but that would just be confusing....;)

[Gator]

and TEA really over estimated DHS attendance figures... DHS is ripe to be taken over by IOA and Uni by 2015 (if it hasn't already as some suggest has happened

How do you come up with that statement, "overestimated". Internet bloggers, with no real evidence outside other bloggers, are the ones who say TEA and AECOM have grossly miscalculated numbers. And if the calculation process is wrong for Disney, it's probably miscalculated for anything Universal.

As far as IOA overtaking DHS, that's unlikely. There's a 2 million person gap. IOA would have to attract 5500 more people/day. And that's with DHS adding virtually nothing for years, and Universal pouring money into their parks. If DHS adds a Cars ride, or a fan-attracting-land like StarWars Land, expect them to jump past AK again, and leave Universal in the dust.

[Stu29573]

How do you come up with that statement, "overestimated". Internet bloggers, with no real evidence outside other bloggers, are the ones who say TEA and AECOM have grossly miscalculated numbers. And if the calculation process is wrong for Disney, it's probably miscalculated for anything Universal.

As far as IOA overtaking DHS, that's unlikely. There's a 2 million person gap. IOA would have to attract 5500 more people/day. And that's with DHS adding virtually nothing for years, and Universal pouring money into their parks. If DHS adds a Cars ride, or a fan-attracting-land like StarWars Land, expect them to jump past AK again, and leave Universal in the dust.

......Or they could call the park "Hunk of Land With Misc. Extra Attractions"....... My point is, I dont care about the numbers ( at this point I would be shot if I were in a TDO board meeting) there needs to be a point to the place....

[DizneyFreak2002]

How do you come up with that statement, "overestimated". Internet bloggers, with no real evidence outside other bloggers, are the ones who say TEA and AECOM have grossly miscalculated numbers. And if the calculation process is wrong for Disney, it's probably miscalculated for anything Universal.

Or maybe the info is coming from management types who say DHS did not pull in close to 10 million like TEA states... The other parks, however, TEA estimated pretty close... and of course, since they are estimates, not actual numbers so yea, for ALL the parks, they could be over estimating...



As far as IOA overtaking DHS, that's unlikely. There's a 2 million person gap. IOA would have to attract 5500 more people/day. And that's with DHS adding virtually nothing for years, and Universal pouring money into their parks. If DHS adds a Cars ride, or a fan-attracting-land like StarWars Land, expect them to jump past AK again, and leave Universal in the dust.Read above... DHS did NOT pull in nearly 10 million as others (people in Disney) have suggested off the record, and these same people have said the number may be closer to 8.5... So the gap may actually be closer to 1 million, not 2 million as you suggest... Easy enough to make that difference up in a few years, especially since Universal is adding and Disney is staying stagnant... Oh, and even with Cars and Star Wars, nothing will open until at LEAST 2018... Plenty of time for IOA/Uni to leave DHS in the dust..

Why do WDW fans get their feathers in a ruffle when someone dares say IOA/Uni is primed to over take one of WDW's theme parks in attendance? Or when someone says, GASP, Universal and IOA are much better than any of the 4 WDW stale parks right now?

[Gator]

Why do WDW fans get their feathers in a ruffle when someone dares say IOA/Uni is primed to over take one of WDW's theme parks in attendance? Or when someone says, GASP, Universal and IOA are much better than any of the 4 WDW stale parks right now?

This is starting to sound more like sour grapes from a fired employee than someone who genuinely cares about the upkeep and improvement of WDW.

Is DHS at the bottom of the heap at WDW? Yes. That's why they're planning to improve it. That said, DHS doesn't s**k like you make it sound like it does. I always spend two days there on every trip. Tower, RnRc, Indy, Fant!, TSMM, StarTours, the giant Hat.... I love it all. Does it have a boring behind the scenes tour? No. Is the Backlot Tour what it used to be? No. That's because if someone wanted that, you can go to Universal. In marketing, it's called product placement and differentiation.

I can appreciate someone wanting to keep Disney honest. I think WDW can always continue to improve, which in the last 10 years that I've been able to go, it certainly has. Just don't attack it like a Yankee attacks the RedSox, and you won't ruffle feathers.

[Tearin_it_up]

Is nobody else devastated at the thought of losing Indy? I know the show has been around forever, but so has a lot of the best stuff at WDW. My favorite movie being taken out of my favorite park at my favorite place on Earth is very sad to me. :ill:

[DizneyFreak2002]

This is starting to sound more like sour grapes from a fired employee than someone who genuinely cares about the upkeep and improvement of WDW.

Well good thing I am not a disgruntled fired former WDW employee...


Is DHS at the bottom of the heap at WDW? Yes. That's why they're planning to improve it. That said, DHS doesn't s**k like you make it sound like it does. I always spend two days there on every trip. Tower, RnRc, Indy, Fant!, TSMM, StarTours, the giant Hat.... I love it all. Does it have a boring behind the scenes tour? No. Is the Backlot Tour what it used to be? No. That's because if someone wanted that, you can go to Universal. In marketing, it's called product placement and differentiation. Well, Universal Orlando does not have an outdated, boring back lot tour with absolutely nothing to see... DHS still does (but not much longer!!!)... Fantasmic! needs major work... The hat needs to go... Indy is out dated now... It shows its age... It also is not long for this world... Get your last shows in now, record it... Won't be around much longer...

I am glad you enjoy the park... Notice not one person here ever said the rides were terrible... Please, read what has been stated, not what you want to think people are saying... Stu, many other fans, and I are saying the park has no cohesive theme (it doesn't), and has lost its direction (it has)... I am also stating the facts that DHS is the least attended WDW park despite TEA's numbers (again, closer to 8 - 8.5 than 10)... I stated a fact when I said DHS is the worst park for merchandise sales... And it is also a fact that many guests (a major majority actually) only visit DHS as a half day park... Disney's own numbers (facts, not made up) tell them people either visit in the morning and leave in the afternoon, or arrive in the afternoon and stay for Fantasmic... Very few guests spend the entire day there... And the one WDW park which loses a day to Universal? DHS... Though DAK is not far behind...



I can appreciate someone wanting to keep Disney honest. I think WDW can always continue to improve, which in the last 10 years that I've been able to go, it certainly has. Just don't attack it like a Yankee attacks the RedSox, and you won't ruffle feathers.I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse... You pay more for less... They have cut so much during the last 10 - 15 years, it isn't even funny... Maintenance has been extremely poor during the last 10-15 years... The parks have gotten very stale during this same time period...

Hey, it isn't my fault WDW fans cannot handle the truth about WDW... Not my fault their feathers get ruffled cause they cannot handle any negative reporting about WDW... And not my problem Red Sox fans cannot accept ribbing about their team... :D

Let me end by saying, I hope the Star Wars plans are true, especially what has recently been described for the E ticket...

[Altair]

Is nobody else devastated at the thought of losing Indy? I know the show has been around forever, but so has a lot of the best stuff at WDW. My favorite movie being taken out of my favorite park at my favorite place on Earth is very sad to me. :ill:

Yes I'll miss this, too. I always thought this show could be easily updated or at least changed just a bit.

[thejens]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction. I think this is what makes WDW exceptional and different from other theme/thrill/amusement parks. This was Walt's special gift, the sense of story, theming and magic. It seems that the studios began with a theme, I never visited then. There is not a cohesive theme at all in my experience. It's lay out is confusing, and is the only park I get lost in. There are no clearly themed areas so it feels random. We spend less time every time we go, and my kids LOVE Star Wars. I think people may spend less on merchandise partly because there is no reason to linger. I love to be in the other three parks because the very atmosphere captivates me. I am happy the minute I cross through the turnstiles. Each land in MK has it's own happy vibe! Epcot is so beautiful and has so many different themed areas and great music, I always know where I am and understand the theming. In AK I love the exotic music for each area, enjoy the animals and plants and interesting shops and entertainers. I just want to spend time even if I am not on an attraction. Honestly, I don't care if the Yeti swoops (okay, truthfully I'm scared to open my eyes here!) because I love the line, the fun shops, watching the monkeys while I wait for my brave sons to get off this ride. The entire experience of AK is enjoyable to me. At the studios I am looking at a map, racing from one attraction to another hoping to get a fast pass for TOT, RR and Toy Story, and then wondering how to get out of the park and into the pool. There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I am excited they will pay attention to this park, but I hope they give thought to the overall feel and organization of the park, tell as story, and invite us to walk down a path with beckoning details and rich sensory cues.

Consistency would be good too, I still cringe to see Darth Vader boogie with Princess Leia. This is a serious break in character. You might as well take off his mask and have him smoke a cigarette.

Anyway, this year we will spend three days (that would normally be our second days at WDW parks) at Universal, and experience the WW of HP. I understand the storytelling here is detailed and immersive. I truly hope that WDW will remember its story telling roots and take the lead again.

[Stu29573]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction. I think this is what makes WDW exceptional and different from other theme/thrill/amusement parks. This was Walt's special gift, the sense of story, theming and magic. It seems that the studios began with a theme, I never visited then. There is not a cohesive theme at all in my experience. It's lay out is confusing, and is the only park I get lost in. There are no clearly themed areas so it feels random. We spend less time every time we go, and my kids LOVE Star Wars. I think people may spend less on merchandise partly because there is no reason to linger. I love to be in the other three parks because the very atmosphere captivates me. I am happy the minute I cross through the turnstiles. Each land in MK has it's own happy vibe! Epcot is so beautiful and has so many different themed areas and great music, I always know where I am and understand the theming. In AK I love the exotic music for each area, enjoy the animals and plants and interesting shops and entertainers. I just want to spend time even if I am not on an attraction. Honestly, I don't care if the Yeti swoops (okay, truthfully I'm scared to open my eyes here!) because I love the line, the fun shops, watching the monkeys while I wait for my brave sons to get off this ride. The entire experience of AK is enjoyable to me. At the studios I am looking at a map, racing from one attraction to another hoping to get a fast pass for TOT, RR and Toy Story, and then wondering how to get out of the park and into the pool. There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I am excited they will pay attention to this park, but I hope they give thought to the overall feel and organization of the park, tell as story, and invite us to walk down a path with beckoning details and rich sensory cues.

Consistency would be good too, I still cringe to see Darth Vader boogie with Princess Leia. This is a serious break in character. You might as well take off his mask and have him smoke a cigarette.

Anyway, this year we will spend three days (that would normally be our second days at WDW parks) at Universal, and experience the WW of HP. I understand the storytelling here is detailed and immersive. I truly hope that WDW will remember its story telling roots and take the lead again.
Well said!:thumbsup:

[Gator]

I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse...

You really leave me no choice. Here's my list of improvements.

MK: Jack Sparrow at POTC, Daily opening of Tortuga Tavern, queue improvement of BTMRRR and Winnie the Pooh, Magic Memories & You, Wishes, Holiday Castle Lights, new Train Station, Little Mermaid dark ride, Dumbo twin ride and play area, Be Our Guest Restaurant, Gaston's Tavern, Belle's Enchanted, Mickey's Philharmagic, Monster's Inc Laugh Floor.

Epcot: Mission Space, Soarin', improved Mexico boat ride with Donald Duck (my kid's favorite), no more wand on SSE, improved Test Track (my son's new favorite), new dining all over World Showcase.

DHS: improved Star Tours, Lights Motors Action, American Idol (I don't like it, but thousands hit it every day), new randomized Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania.

AK: Everest, Nemo the Musical, Yak&Yeti, Wild Africa Trek.

WDW: Saratoga Springs, POP Century, Art of Animation, Bay Lake Tower, Kidani Village.

I just listed over 30 improvements, and I'm sure I left some out. So with a straight face, WDW has improved over the last 10 years. Anyone looking at this list and denying improvement really needs an attitude adjustment. Cheer up, man. It's all Disney, and it's all good :mickey:

And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.:cool:

[AndrewJackson]

Gator - I agree. I see WDW much improved over the past several years. I think a low point was late 2001 and through 2003. Disney was trying to figure out how do deal with a post 9/11 economy. They aggressively offered some deep resort discounts, and got the attendance numbers back. Now, they are investing some serious capital into the place. I also think the maintenance has drastically improved over the past decade.



And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.:cool:

C'mon now. I think we all know who will have the last word. :D

[big blue and hairy]

......Or they could call the park "Hunk of Land With Misc. Extra Attractions"....... My point is, I dont care about the numbers ( at this point I would be shot if I were in a TDO board meeting) there needs to be a point to the place....

While I agree that DHS needs improvement, a point to the place isn't the problem. Epcot doesn't have a point, it has several. Adding Star Wars and Cars to DHS would be terrific and would not require a re-brand. It doesn't have be a literal studio to be called Hollywood Studios. Studios made the movies, it's close enough for Rock-n-roll.

:sulley:

[ChipNDale79]

You really leave me no choice. Here's my list of improvements.

MK: Jack Sparrow at POTC, Daily opening of Tortuga Tavern, queue improvement of BTMRRR and Winnie the Pooh, Magic Memories & You, Wishes, Holiday Castle Lights, new Train Station, Little Mermaid dark ride, Dumbo twin ride and play area, Be Our Guest Restaurant, Gaston's Tavern, Belle's Enchanted, Mickey's Philharmagic, Monster's Inc Laugh Floor.

Epcot: Mission Space, Soarin', improved Mexico boat ride with Donald Duck (my kid's favorite), no more wand on SSE, improved Test Track (my son's new favorite), new dining all over World Showcase.

DHS: improved Star Tours, Lights Motors Action, American Idol (I don't like it, but thousands hit it every day), new randomized Tower of Terror, Toy Story Mania.

AK: Everest, Nemo the Musical, Yak&Yeti, Wild Africa Trek.

WDW: Saratoga Springs, POP Century, Art of Animation, Bay Lake Tower, Kidani Village.

I just listed over 30 improvements, and I'm sure I left some out. So with a straight face, WDW has improved over the last 10 years. Anyone looking at this list and denying improvement really needs an attitude adjustment. Cheer up, man. It's all Disney, and it's all good :mickey:

And this is my last post on the subject. No sense in getting another topic closed for sake of having the last word.:cool:

They've made improvements and additions in the past 10-15 years sure, but they' have also let a lot of things get stale and old.

DHS is a perfect example of that, sure they updated Star Tours, added AI, and TSMM, notice I'm not mentioning ToT in here (randomizing the ride doesn't wow me). Other than that, the park is a shell of it's self, it's not a working studio anymore, therefore it now has zero theme to it. As others have noted it's confusing and a half day park. We used to love DHS, but now its our least favorite at WDW, there's just not enough there for us.

In Epcot they've closed an entire pavilion and let it just sit there, not to mention how old and dated Ellen's Energy Adventure is. In fact is a joke to many people, it's a place to go and take a nap. From there they took out a 3D show based on a movie from the 80s/90s and replaced it with something even older. They've allowed a restaurant that sits smack dab in the middle of the park to remain empty and an eyesore. Adding Donald to the boatride in Mexico is an improvement? I love Donald, (I love seeing him harassed by ChipNDale too though hehe) but it's very oddly done IMO, in fact it looks really cheap and doesn't fit

Not to mention the signature attraction at AK doesn't work correctly.

On top of all of this, WDW allowed an unfinished resort to sit idle for 10 years. We stayed at POP Century a few years ago facing the Legendary Years Side, what a view, it looked like a nuclear war zone, nothing you would expect at WDW. Thank god they finally righted that wrong.

If rumors are true and big things are coming, then it's about time. It's time for the Disney Company to show WDW some real love.

[brie9877]

I hope they wont get rid of LM. Thats one of my and my DDs favorite Disney movies.

i am not a SW fan and I know they bought the rights for that and for Avatar but neither of those franchises fits with the Disney themes IMHO.

[Mousemates]

I have to agree that the park would be greatly improved if it had a cohesive theme and direction....There are few areas which invite you to linger.

I'm with you on that thought...while the park has three great rides, once we have made the TSM, RnR, ToT loop we are pretty much done there.

We can happily wander for a few hours through AKL watching the animals and enjoying some of the various entertainment offerings. We also enjoy simply strolling around the lake and through the shops at Epcot's world showcase. And, like many, we can spend an entire evening in the MK simply soaking in the ambiance while people watching on Mainstreet and Fantasyland ...but DHS simply doesn't have "it" for us.

Walking through most of DHS really feels no different than walking through Downtown Disney (only with fewer intriguing shops and good eateries.)

[Mousemates]

I'm sorry, no one can say with a straight face that WDW has improved over the last 10 years... Sorry, no way.. It has gotten worse... You pay more for less... They have cut so much during the last 10 - 15 years, it isn't even funny... Maintenance has been extremely poor during the last 10-15 years... The parks have gotten very stale during this same time period...

With the exception of the MK (due to the ongoing expansion of Fantasyland) I tend to agree with you. And while I really like the new addition, what they in essence did was make the greatest investment/improvement in/to the park that needed it the least.

[DizneyFreak2002]

With the exception of the MK (due to the ongoing expansion of Fantasyland) I tend to agree with you. And while I really like the new addition, what they in essence did was make the greatest investment/improvement in/to the park that needed it the least.

Actually, MK needed it... The park is literally bursting at the seams... The capacity at the park has been reduced with all the cuts TDO has made over the last 10 or 15 years (but hey that's an IMPROVEMENT!!!!)... And the new area: Little Mermaid already has broken AA's, MK did not gain a ride (20K and Snow White replaced by Mermaid and 7D = no net gain in ride numbers), BoG has already reduced menu offerings and jacked the price (and it hasn't even been open a year yet!!!)...

Off the top of my head, I listed 50 things that have been taken away, dumbed down, or cut which makes WDW worse today than it was 10-15 years ago... Don't have time to post them right now... But I may do that in the future... So, yea, anyone saying WDW has improved over the last 10-15 years with a straight face has either just visited for the first time during this current down cycle or they are just so addicted to pixie dust they cannot see the decline in the product (and they has been a very noticeable decline)...

[Butters]

Actually, MK needed it... The park is literally bursting at the seams... The capacity at the park has been reduced with all the cuts TDO has made over the last 10 or 15 years (but hey that's an IMPROVEMENT!!!!)... And the new area: Little Mermaid already has broken AA's, MK did not gain a ride (20K and Snow White replaced by Mermaid and 7D = no net gain in ride numbers), BoG has already reduced menu offerings and jacked the price (and it hasn't even been open a year yet!!!)...

Off the top of my head, I listed 50 things that have been taken away, dumbed down, or cut which makes WDW worse today than it was 10-15 years ago... Don't have time to post them right now... But I may do that in the future... So, yea, anyone saying WDW has improved over the last 10-15 years with a straight face has either just visited for the first time during this current down cycle or they are just so addicted to pixie dust they cannot see the decline in the product (and they has been a very noticeable decline)...

I agree it has been a product on the decline, I'm sure there are many reasons... But Disney is a publicly traded company that found a way to be profitable as an entertainment destination in one of our nations largest recessions.

That being said, I wish they would put more magic into the parks, and maintain what they already have, but until there becomes a business need to do so I'm afraid it will not happen.

As a Disney fan I'm rooting for universal to build the biggest and best park possible and keep whittling away at Disney market share since that will be the only thing that will justify a true investment into the parks!