Beer and wine to be served at Be Our Guest [Archive]

Jared

09-13-2012, 05:04 PM

Here's the official word (http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2012/09/storytelling-through-dining-at-be-our-guest-restaurant-in-new-fantasyland/)from Disney.

From Disney Parks Blog:

When it opens at Magic Kingdom Park on November 19, Be Our Guest Restaurant will magically drop guests into the world of Belle and the Beast with a whole new level of theming for a Disney restaurant. “More than ever, we’re using storytelling and creativity as we develop our menus,” says Maribeth Bisienere, vice president of Food & Beverage and Merchandise for The Walt Disney Company. “We’re continually creating magical experiences, and Be Our Guest Restaurant at New Fantasyland is the next step in the evolution.”

The storytelling starts with Walt Disney Imagineering, but it’s not long before the Food & Beverage team starts creating a menu to match the theatrics. This time, it’s all about the mysterious new Magic Kingdom Park castle that’s home to Beast from “Beauty and the Beast,” with a majestic Ballroom with 20-foot-tall ceilings, elegant chandeliers and a wall of 18-foot-tall windows that overlook the French countryside where a light snow is falling; the Rose Gallery, with a large music box centerpiece that’s almost 7 feet tall, with Belle and the Beast slowly twirling atop; and the forbidden, dramatic West Wing, with the warm glow of the Beast’s enchanted rose.

A team of Disney chefs, including longtime Disney Chef Roland Muller, a native of Alsace, France, has spent more than three years developing the French-inspired menu, creating both a quick-service menu for lunch and a more elegant table-service menu for dinner.

“Our role is to finish the story,” says Walt Disney World Executive Chef Lenny DeGeorge. And while the quick-service lunch is more of a French bistro, dinner is a more elegant affair with dishes themed to the film: a whole roasted hen, a pork rack chop, pan-seared salmon with leek fondue and saffron potatoes. Gourmet cupcakes and mousse-filled cream puffs are finished tableside.

And just for dinner, select wines and beers will be offered that complement the French-inspired cuisine.

“As part of the overall theming, we wanted to offer wine that enhances the guest experience and complements the French-inspired cuisine,” says Stuart McGuire, Beverage Director, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. “The wines focus primarily on France’s famous wine-growing regions, including Champagne, Alsace, Loire, Rhone, Burgundy and Bordeaux.

“We’ll also offer the leading French beer, Kronenbourg 1664,” says McGuire. “And, staying in the general region, we’ll also offer Belgian beers.”

Servers complete the picture, dressed in a style inspired by European fashions from the 1400s to the 1600s: a royal purple embroidered doublet, or vest, over a shirt with knickers that reach just below the knee. For evening service, a jabot or ruffle, buttoned at the throat, is added.

“From the moment they cross the bridge into the castle, it’s all about immersing our guests in the dining experience,” says Bisienere. “Every detail is part of the story.”

Added by Moderator Team

Brer_Fox

09-13-2012, 05:45 PM

Interesting.... very very interesting!

BrowncatP

09-13-2012, 05:52 PM

I guess that I am too much of a traditionist, but my thought is NOO!

cer

09-13-2012, 05:53 PM

Not a fan. Boo.

EeyoresBestFriend

09-13-2012, 06:17 PM

With the "no" crowd definitely. I don't think it is necessary ~ fine dining with alcohol can be found at Epcot. Too many rides at MK for "indulging" guests to hoof their woofies on.

Very unfamily like. . . .

faline

09-13-2012, 06:27 PM

SBETigg

09-13-2012, 06:32 PM

Big news out of a press conference at WDW this afternoon - beer and wine will be sold during dinner hours at Be Our Guest. From what I'm seeing, you will not be able to get any alcohol "to go". Seems polling showed folks wanted fine wine, etc. to go with their fine dining experience at BOG.

So, what does everyone think? What would Walt think?

Well, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who would have skipped it in favor of a venue where I could get wine with dinner. I think it's awesome as long as it doesn't open the doors to bring alcohol into other areas of the MK. Wine or beer with dinner, not something most people go overboard on (though I have seen it). So... yeah, I'm cool with this.

AgentC

09-13-2012, 06:40 PM

My first instinct was no. Don't break tradition and all that. But as I thought more about it, I agree with Linda. There are multiple close by restaurants that have wine & beer with dinner. I've eaten in several of them and never had problems with the others who were drinking.

I can also understand why this restaurant would be the right setting. As we've discussed in other threads,it is definitely more of a upscale fine dining experience and the courses are well suited to wine pairings. I don't think many people will go there just to drink. Let's be honest. There are plenty of places at WDW where you can do that. SO as long as the next step ins't beer stands throughout MK, I am okay with this.

Gator

09-13-2012, 06:40 PM

I hate this. Hate this! This is a dry park, a kid friendly park. I personally have a problem with alcohol in general, but a few deaths in the family at the hand of a drunk can do that. Still, I don't get it. This isn't necesary - people will go to this place with wine or no wine. I guess my question is why do people NEED to have wine with their food?

magicofdisney

09-13-2012, 06:41 PM

I do love a good Pina Colada however I'm not much of a wine drinker. I have no qualms with this but I seriously doubt it will forever be confined to the BOG venue.

DizneyFreak2002

09-13-2012, 06:50 PM

No problem with this at all... The other three parks serve it... If someone doesn't want a glass of wine with their dinner, the simple solution is don't order it... No one is forcing you too...

SBETigg

09-13-2012, 07:07 PM

Any chef will tell you that certain foods and wines go together. It's a relationship-- they can enhance and compliment the flavors in each. Having a glass of wine with dinner is not about getting a buzz. It's about getting a full sensory experience from a lovely meal.

I'm sorry for your losses, but it's also a little offensive to equate people who have a glass of wine with dinner to people who lose control, go out, and get behind the wheel. There are plenty of people who drink and do so responsibly. In fact, statistically, we're in the majority.

TinkerbellT421

09-13-2012, 07:10 PM

I have no qualms with it. Sounds like you are only going to be ordering alcohol with dinner. I highly doubt someone will be getting sloshed during dinner then going for a ride on pirates. It's not like Epcot where you are going to be able to drop by and just buy a beer and be on your way. I don't drink alcohol with dinner usually anyway, but I don't see an issue with letting someone have a glass or two with dinner.

SharkBait

09-13-2012, 07:28 PM

Wine/Beer with dinner is fine.:beer:

Wine/Beer stands throughout the park is not fine. I definitely do not want that to start.

Jared

09-13-2012, 07:32 PM

This is a dry park, a kid friendly park.
So the presence of alcohol at the table suddenly makes the park inappropriate for children? I understand that you have a personal opposition to alcohol, and I respect that. But there's nothing wrong with adults having a glass of wine with dinner, even with kids around. I just don't think you're making a fair leap.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 07:34 PM

DisneyGlutton

09-13-2012, 07:35 PM

Like others have mentioned, it's inconceivable that anyone is going to go to BoG specifically to get sloshed. If you don't like alcohol with your meal (which I don't either), then don't order it. I've never understood the rigid dry attitude that people have for MK.

DizneyFreak2002

09-13-2012, 07:37 PM

DisneyGlutton

09-13-2012, 07:40 PM

What would Walt think?

He might have created the Happiest Places on Earth and left a tremendous legacy, but he was not perfect and neither was every single one of his ideas.

SBETigg

09-13-2012, 07:41 PM

I guess this is just the next phase of moving away from the original foundation set by Walt Disney.

What would Walt think?

Walt would think what he's been thinking for years - the Walt Disney Company is forsaking the original premise of the park all in the name of PROFIT.

Believe me, if alcohol wasn't one of the most profitable things you can sell in individual units, we would not be having this conversation.

The quarter numbers are now more important than the original mission of the park.

Good thing Walt put imagination, innovation and heart into the parks when he created it. Budget initiatives would not allow those sorts of things these days.

I agree with you in part, but not completely. I think we have a tendency to glorify Walt and his intentions. He was, after all, a businessman, and profit did play into his motivation to some extent. He didn't set out to please families at the risk of going broke or losing profits. But yes, he probably wouldn't have made some of the choices that people in charge have made through the years. Still, I think all of the parks are in keeping with Walt's original ideas and intentions for the most part. There are some quibbles, and some giant stretches along the way, but I still think there's plenty of heart.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 07:44 PM

Only problem with asking what would Walt think is he put alcohol into Disneyland...

I think it is safe to say that Club 33 is the exception at the Disneyland Park. There are club members, who are in essence "registered". Walt started it as invitation only, so there was obvious intention to control the alcohol.

He did not allow it in the park otherwise, and did not allow it in Magic Kingdom before its opening and his untimely death.

What happened after, is par for the course.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 07:47 PM

I agree with you in part, but not completely. I think we have a tendency to glorify Walt and his intentions. He was, after all, a businessman, and profit did play into his motivation to some extent. He didn't set out to please families at the risk of going broke or losing profits. But yes, he probably wouldn't have made some of the choices that people in charge have made through the years. Still, I think all of the parks are in keeping with Walt's original ideas and intentions for the most part. There are some quibbles, and some giant stretches along the way, but I still think there's plenty of heart.

You make very valid points, and I agree with them.

I think the difference is that the importance of profit is more blatant than ever and one can make the argument that the balance of Walt's business approach and modern pressures of a major corporation are a tad off.

Jared

09-13-2012, 07:47 PM

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 07:49 PM

He might have created the Happiest Places on Earth and left a tremendous legacy, but he was not perfect and neither was every single one of his ideas.

I agree. I think this is just one of the MAJOR "rules" he left behind that the company honored for a very long time.

It is obvious that this is a profit decision over a customer service one. If it was a customer service one, we would have seen alcohol in the MK restaurants a long time ago (who doesn't want some champagne in a castle or red wine with Italian food?)

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 07:50 PM

Both Disneyland the Magic Kingdom have also had alcohol at private events.

The operative word is "private".

The change here is the overall alcohol policy and offerings for normal park operating hours.

DisneyGlutton

09-13-2012, 07:55 PM

It is obvious that this is a profit decision over a customer service one. If it was a customer service one, we would have seen alcohol in the MK restaurants a long time ago (who doesn't want some champagne in a castle or red wine with Italian food?)

You make a very good point, and I'll have to ponder it. My first response would be that since it was (apparently?) a big rule of his, this by itself may have kept MK from becoming "wet" earlier from a customer service perspective.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 08:00 PM

You make a very good point, and I'll have to ponder it. My first response would be that since it was (apparently?) a big rule of his, this by itself may have kept MK from becoming "wet" earlier from a customer service perspective.

Yes, I think that's what, at the core, bothers me about this.

I applaud changes that are *truly* for an improved experience for customer. I think that you can make the argument that this is obviously to improve the bottom line of this restaurant. The construction HAS to be VERY costly (more so than most of their restaurants). They have to make it profitable and I would venture that the budget managers determined that it would not turn a profit within the prescribed time frame without alcohol (restaurants' most profitable sale item).

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 08:05 PM

After all of my long-winded soap-boxing, I will say that I am sure Disney will monitor the alcohol as best they can. I also like to have faith in the public that they will behave, with occasional exceptions that will be addressed on individual basis. I like a drink as much (maybe more) than the next person and do not have ANY problem with people who like to have an alcoholic beverage with their meal.

Maybe I need to go have a glass of wine to help process this new shift in MK culture...

Stu29573

09-13-2012, 08:06 PM

I dont like it. I have a far too vivid memory of a young lady at Epcot barfing her toenails up in the gardens by Germany right in front of a bunch of little kids. Now we are putting it right in Fantasyland? Bad form.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 08:10 PM

The "What would Walt think!?!?" argument makes me laugh.

I get that Walt was opposed to alcohol at his parks, since he wanted to maintain a family friendly atmosphere. So really, Walt would've been upset YEARS ago, when they decided to serve alcohol at all the other places on his resort.
How does serving it at one other place suddenly incur his wrath?
Unless you're opposed to alcohol being served at ALL of the parks on WDW property, it makes no sense to oppose this. You can be pro-alcohol at Animal Kingdom, but anti-alcohol at Magic Kingdom. The argument makes no sense.

And maybe we should stop worrying about what a guy who's been dead for almost 50 years thinks.

If you go back to the first page of posts, you'll see this is a worthwhile question posed by Melanie.

I would never use an interrogative sentence as an argument. I was merely answering the question and sharing my thoughts about one of Walt's original policies involving parks with castles.

Disney Hungarian

09-13-2012, 08:11 PM

I think this news just topped Apple's iPhone 5 news release.... sign of the times?

DisneyGlutton

09-13-2012, 08:13 PM

I think that you can make the argument that this is obviously to improve the bottom line of this restaurant. The construction HAS to be VERY costly (more so than most of their restaurants). They have to make it profitable and I would venture that the budget managers determined that it would not turn a profit within the prescribed time frame without alcohol (restaurants most profitable sale item).

I agree 100% with the above, but there is no reason if couldn't have been from a customer service explanation as well--they aren't mutually exclusive. Although this thread shows how divisive introducing alcohol to MK will be, there a lot of people who would like wine with their dinner and thus pay $$ for it (and little to no people who will stop going because of the park becoming wet). Disney is not a charity, but a for profit enterprise. Not only don't I mind them having a profit motive (capitalism is supposed to improve things through the invisible hand of competition, after all), I want them to make tons of money so they can stay around, innovate, expand, etc.

DisneyGlutton

09-13-2012, 08:16 PM

After all of my long-winded soap-boxing, I will say that I am sure Disney will monitor the alcohol as best they can. I also like to have faith in the public that they will behave, with occasional exceptions that will be addressed on individual basis.

:thumbsup:

Here, here! I can agree with that 1000000% and will now get off my soapbox

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 08:17 PM

Totally agree. Customer service is a part of this decision. I'm sure there were some surveys involved and studies concerning what people order in the parks.

However, I just feel that history suggests that profit was the major factor in this decision. Otherwise, I think they would have brought this about awhile ago when people starting asking about wine at Tony's. I feel comfortable saying that people probably would have liked to have alcohol available at any/all of the MK parks for years now. I just think the return on investment factor was more severe this time and tipped the scales in favor of alcohol.

Perhaps it was inevitable.

I would also say that if it goes over well from a financial and security standpoint, we will see the alcohol offerings extended to other MK table service restaurants.

Mfarquar

09-13-2012, 08:18 PM

That was the last one, I promise.

Thanks for the interesting discussion, DisneyGlutton.

SBETigg

09-13-2012, 08:21 PM

It is obvious that this is a profit decision over a customer service one. If it was a customer service one, we would have seen alcohol in the MK restaurants a long time ago (who doesn't want some champagne in a castle or red wine with Italian food?)

I think customer service as well as profit could be in the decision-making, though. In fact, I think it's more customer than profit driven. I think it's something they might be hearing from customers and responding to after the release of the Be Our Guest menu. If it was strictly profit-motivated, we would have heard about this weeks ago when they presented the menus for Be Our Guest in the first place. I think it's a targeted response to customer commentary.

No restaurant in the MK has called for wine with dinner quite as much as the Be Our Guest menu does now. If you're offering a more upscale fine dining menu, then the customer who tends to enjoy that kind of experience has certain expectations, and wine pairings is one of them. So to not offer it puts off a good portion of your intended audience from the start. How much of it? No idea. But I'm guessing the initial booking of the venue reflected a certain lack of enthusiasm to occasion the drastic change in policy. I'm sorry (or not) if this encourages you to back off on your previous promise. I think you've made some interesting points and I've enjoyed the conversation.

Dsnygirl

09-13-2012, 08:44 PM

Oh my... that place is going to be packed and I may never be able to get an ADR there.

:rotfl:

I personally have no problem with it, seeing as it's being limited to dinnertime, and is a part of the theming/cuisine, as they put it, and I'm sure will be carefully watched. I think it will come down to CM's being very careful to uphold the rules so that it DOESN'T become an issue... that being said, I know that can be a tough job, as the CM's who work at Epcot I'm sure can attest to. :blush:

... and as to the "family friendly" arguements, as far as I'm concerned, EVERY park at Disney should be "family friendly", and if alcohol is offered at the others under this same premise, I have no problem with it being offered in a small, special way at MK. I think it (or at least hope) that it will enhance a special, new & unique restaurant.

It will be interesting to watch this unfold, and I've enjoyed reading the prior comments!

DizneyFreak2002

09-13-2012, 08:46 PM

I think it is safe to say that Club 33 is the exception at the Disneyland Park. There are club members, who are in essence "registered". Walt started it as invitation only, so there was obvious intention to control the alcohol.

He did not allow it in the park otherwise, and did not allow it in Magic Kingdom before its opening and his untimely death.

What happened after, is par for the course.

I was also wrong... My bad... Club 33 opened after Walt died...

But, regardless of that, alcohol is still served inside the park, in a high class restaurant.. While BOG won't be private or exclusive, it is being marketed as a higher class dining experience... Plus, wine and beer only will be served and only during dinner... It isn't like beer carts are popping up all over the park...

I have a serious question for everyone: Would your day at MK (or vacation even ) be ruined because wine and beer are being served in a place you may or may not dine in, providing you with a choice to order or not???

ChipNDale79

09-13-2012, 08:56 PM

When i first saw this i thought, why? this isnt right.

But the more i think about it, the more i like it. I like that they arent allowing you to get drinks to go, you can get a drink or two with dinner, but if you think WDW is going to get someone slap drunk in the MK, it aint going to happen. I also think this could really open up more find dining inside of MK.

Dining is one of the reasons why I love EPCOT, this could be a step in a good direction, but must be done in moderation.

waymickey

09-13-2012, 10:01 PM

I guess that I am too much of a traditionist, but my thought is NOO!

I feel the same

DisneyDINK

09-13-2012, 11:52 PM

Symbolically, it was pretty neat to have a place like the MK that refused to serve alcohol. I'm going to miss that. Without Walt's vision the parks wouldn't be what they are today. Then again in many ways they are not what the were anyway. I'm just sayin' maybe they are straying a bit too far from the original concept for Disneyland: a place where the whole family can go and have some fun. Oh well... It's their rule; I guess they can break it.

Practically speaking, not a big deal for me. Wine, no wine, whatever. I'm not much of a wine drinker and I'll bet their beer list will be underwhelming anyway.:beer:

Now if I get loaded at the Poly and monorail over to the MK I'm not going to feel like a rulebreaker anymore. And where's the fun in that?

We'll have to wait and see if they open La Cava de Ron @ POTC. I mean, if it is a financial decision, and I'll bet it is, the margins on coctails are pretty high. How long will the number crunchers keep the rest of the park dry when there's profits to be had?

To sum up: I don't like the idea of serving alcohol in the MK, but it is not a deal-breaker.

HackLaSalle

09-13-2012, 11:54 PM

I'm so up in the air here.

Let's get a few things straight. You can get drunk outside of MK and come INTO MK without any problem. You can easily, now I do not recommend doing so nor will I admit having done so, sneak booze into MK and get sauced. More than likely you have seen drunk people at MK before and not even noticed.

I liked the idea that it was a dry place and I understood the reasoning. But I also understand the reasoning here.

But breaking it down further: It's one place. It's a place that by its mere rabid demand for space will be exclusive. And it is only served during dinner service. It's also high quality wine and beer. You're not pounding jaeger and bud light here.

I'm not sure if this is nearly as big of a deal we are making it out to be. I still don't know if I agree with it. But I don't think it's a big deal.

Mfarquar

09-14-2012, 12:06 AM

Ok, I said I wasn't going to say anymore. But, I can't sleep and couldn't resist. I think there are a lot of good points being made here.

A lot of posters have mentioned that it is only 1 place at dinner time.

A couple of other posters (including my self) hinted at possible expansion of locations that serve alcohol if there is a profit to be made.

However, once a "compromise" is made, more are sure to follow. Human nature and nature of business.

I think it's a fairly safe prediction to make the call that adding alcohol to the other locations will be coming soon. Why not Tony's? Why not Liberty Tree Tavern (see what they did with the name there)? This could be the end of an era.

Some of the questions brought up are very good - is this a deal breaker? For most people, I'm sure the answer is "no". But, on the flip side, using that logic: Would you not go to Be Our Guest for dinner if they DIDN'T serve wine and beer? (also consider that due to previous dry MK situation, it wasn't really the expectation that it WAS available).

Personally, I'm not sure people would be protesting going because there is no wine menu. Not the majority, anyway. I'd venture that reservations would be just as full with or without wine and beer. This is why I think it's far more of a financial decision hidden in "we're giving the people what they want". I think the restaurant would be just as in demand with or without alcohol simply because it's new, and that's just how dining reservations go in WDW now. HOWEVER, I guarantee the amount spend per guest will go up at this venue, while reservation count remains consistent. It goes hand-in-hand with the approach Disney has had for some time - the goal is to increase the amount spend per person while they are in the parks. This will surely accomplish this.

Maybe the revenue will justify them spending more money on increasing quality and innovation in areas that haven't quite been up to their usual standards...

Tink#64

09-14-2012, 12:21 AM

WoW! This is a very lively & personal debate! IMHO, I see very valid points of both sides! This is a break in the tradition of MK's rule of not serving alcohol! Yes, that is a fact that no one can argue with. BUT, and that's a really BIG BUT, as we see in life every day, times are a'changin'! Look at the rule that was changed this very year to allow Beards & goatees on the MK employees! Yes, I know, right off, some will say it had nothing in common with this change, but I tend to think it does! We all see change all the time! We don't always like these changes, but they happen anyway. Alot is directly due to recognizing that times, thoughts, feelings & preferences have changed! I'm sure alot of thought, whether customer based or profit based, was given to this unprecedented situation. But I do not equate alcohol offerings equate with drunk & unruly! And btw, I have 2 teen DS's & they definitely know that mom enjoys the ocasional glass of wine or beer at home or with dinner! And I will be no means ever endanger/embarass my children with that preference!

I personally have no problem with alcohol being served, whether it's with dinner or other venue! It's called accountability! It's part of life everyday - everywhere. I can't imagine people paying WDW's prices to enter to visit with the intention of getting sloshed! And even if, in the dreadful event the "Aunt Sue" has taken a spin on the tea cups after a couple glasses of wine with dinner & looses her lambchops, could it not be chalked up to the teacups? Who in their right mind is telling little "Johnny" - "Well Auntie Sue tied one on again!" Seriously, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but none of us own WDW or where asked! It is what it is! If you choose not to patronize - then so be it! We all have to make the choices that we feel that are right for us!

Mousemates

09-14-2012, 01:01 AM

I'm in the "I don't like it category" for traditionalist, personal and philosophical reasons...but truth be told I don't see it (beer/wine in one restaurant) as being likely to have any real impact upon my own personal enjoyment at the MK.

I do have concerns about the impact of the policy change if the sale of alcohol becomes more widespread throughout the park. I don't want to see the "drinking around the world" thing at EPcot become "drinking at the mountains" in the MK. The only issue with alcohol enhanced rowdiness/rudeness/lewdness we have had at WDW has been at Epcot, where from my own personal observations disney doesn't always do a great job policing the situation.

Its not a deal breaker, but to me it does have the potential to be a negative.

Quadstriker

09-14-2012, 02:28 AM

[really big bold font]

"PLEASE WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!"

[/really big bold font]

But back in the real world, it's nice to see adults being treated like adults. It makes no sense to me that a glass of wine that someone else is drinking with their dinner could get someone upset. Live and let live.

DisneyGlutton

09-14-2012, 04:01 AM

I don't want to see the "drinking around the world" thing at EPcot become "drinking at the mountains" in the MK. The only issue with alcohol enhanced rowdiness/rudeness/lewdness we have had at WDW has been at Epcot, where from my own personal observations disney doesn't always do a great job policing the situation.

If I was a drinker, that would be the best idea ever..."drinking at the mountains" is genius, and puking under each mountain is even better! :sick: ;)

Seriously though, I'll reiterate that it doesn't phase me at all, but I do hope there's no rowdiness etc (which I think is unlikely). I must not go enough, as I've never seen drunkards at Epcot.

P.S. Sorry that I misinterpretted your questions, DizneyFreak2002. It's hard to tell intent, at least for me, and I imagined your questions to be more badgering than you meant.

VWL Mom

09-14-2012, 07:12 AM

The wine/beer list can be found here (http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/wdw_nextgen/CoreCatalog/WaltDisneyWorld/en_us/Media/InternetMediaType/Dining/BeOurGuest/be-our-guest-menu-beverage.pdf)

TinkerbellT421

09-14-2012, 08:11 AM

Like I said earlier, based on that wine and beer, I highly doubt people are going to buy enough $17.00 glasses of French wine to get them sloshed for the evening at MK. That list actually makes me a little :sick: lol.

PopPhan

09-14-2012, 08:39 AM

I am not against serving 'adult' beverages with a TS meal. In many countries, this is the norm and expected. I am a bit confused that the first place they would do this in the MK is in Fantasyland - an area geared toward the 'younger' visitors. Had they rolled this idea out in Tony's, it would have softened the blow.

Hate to use the 'slippery slope' argument, but I am a bit surprised and concerned how this will spread throughout the park....Casey's Hot Dogs and BEER? As someone else mentioned la Cava de Ron @ POTC? Ghoul Grog at HM? White Lightning @ Pecos Bills?

OK, I know I am going a bit overboard with this, but who is going to stop them if they think it will turn a profit.

Lindsey310

09-14-2012, 08:54 AM

:party:
I hate this. Hate this! This is a dry park, a kid friendly park. I personally have a problem with alcohol in general, but a few deaths in the family at the hand of a drunk can do that. Still, I don't get it. This isn't necesary - people will go to this place with wine or no wine. I guess my question is why do people NEED to have wine with their food? Is it that much better than a soft drink, or flavored iced tea, or do all these people just need a buzz?

I personally prefer an ice cold coke with my dinner. I can see both sides of this debate. However, MK, has always said it's a dry kingdom so why make one exception now?? Is it going to lead to more exceptions down the road? Ehh, I think it should stick with no alcohol. :cool:

Mickey'sGirl

09-14-2012, 09:14 AM

But back in the real world, it's nice to see adults being treated like adults. It makes no sense to me that a glass of wine that someone else is drinking with their dinner could get someone upset. Live and let live.
I concur.

Disney Hungarian

09-14-2012, 09:17 AM

VWL Mom

09-14-2012, 09:33 AM

Is it going to lead to more exceptions down the road?

I don't necessarily see it leading to more exceptions down the road BUT between the menu and now the added wine list I wouldn't be surprised to see it become Signature dining catering more to adults.

SBETigg

09-14-2012, 11:32 AM

I just remembered the Gaston's Tavern concept artwork released by Disney earlier this year. Maybe they were trying to give us a hint back then???

This is the new "LeFou's Brew" and the old concept artwork is in the background.
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2012/09/a-sip-of-lefous-brew-from-gastons-tavern-in-new-fantasyland-at-magic-kingdom-park/

How is that a hint? They're serving apple juice concoctions that sort of rival Harry Potter's butterbeer. And cinnamon rolls. There is no alcohol served at Gaston's Tavern, and it doesn't sound like it's even on the horizon there. The background art is in keeping with the theme and the cups of "brew" they intend to sell there, which is not alcoholic.

Also, since you bring this up, I'm a little surprised that there's more outcry over serving alcohol to adults than there is over serving children beverages that mock adult alcohol consumption, both here and at Universal with the Potter-themed bevvies. I don't have a problem with it, but I would expect that some people would and it hasn't come up.

Disney Hungarian

09-14-2012, 11:46 AM

How is that a hint? They're serving apple juice concoctions that sort of rival Harry Potter's butterbeer. And cinnamon rolls. There is no alcohol served at Gaston's Tavern, and it doesn't sound like it's even on the horizon there. The background art is in keeping with the theme and the cups of "brew" they intend to sell there, which is not alcoholic.
Because at the time that original concept art came out; it did cause a stir on the internet about that looking like beer mugs on the waitress' tray. It still does look like beer on the tray.
The original policy for Epcot was that alcohol was to be served at restaurants only and not at kiosks or carts. That policy did not last long. I have no clue whether or not Disney will keep alcohol limited to BOG restaurant at MK. But, from their track record at Epcot it does seem doubtful.
From a purely business aspect, it makes no sense to not sell something that the guests will buy. I am neither defending nor condemning Disney's new alcohol policy at the MK. I am merely curious as to how far it will go. Only time will tell.

BrerGnat

09-14-2012, 12:13 PM

When I heard this news last night, I mentioned it to my husband. He said "Good...it was a stupid rule anyway."

Now, listen. My husband is no lush, but he likes wine and beer, particularly with his meals. He probably falls into the category of "average Disney fan". If Disney made this decision by polling people who are similar to my DH, it's no wonder they came to this decision.

The truth is, MOST people do not understand why MK doesn't serve alcohol, and I have heard more than a few complaints about it over the years from "average park guests."

No one is going to be getting hammered at the prices they are charging for the beer and wine! I am actually glad to see that the majority of what is offered are authentic to the region in which the food is supposed to represent. In particular, their offering of ACTUAL, real Champagne is enticing.

I see no problem with this and as long as the beer/wine offerings at MK stay within the boundaries of the upscale restaurants (I'd classify CRT here as well), it's not going to be an issue.

You can get drunk at EVERY other Disney park, and even then, I've never actually witnessed anyone who was out of control because of it.

For the poster who mentioned the young lady who :ack: at Epcot. Well, that was me once, but I was NOT drunk. It was day 1 of a very bad stomach bug that plagued me for the next 3 days of my trip. Sometimes, you gotta :ack: and the bushes at Epcot are the best option. Just because you see someone getting sick does NOT mean that person is drunk. Furthermore, even IF that person is drunk, :ack: is :ack: and I can't understand why a child would be traumatized by seeing that.

I actually want to go to dinner at BoG more now than I did before!

SBETigg

09-14-2012, 12:16 PM

Because at the time that original concept art came out; it did cause a stir on the internet about that looking like beer mugs on the waitress' tray. It still does look like beer on the tray.

But it caused a stir because the picture looked like beer? Not because the product being served to children looks like beer? That's the stir I haven't heard but would expect. Like back when I was a kid and there was a big deal being made of candy cigarettes. I just expected there would be some outcry, more than there is over selling a product intended for adults to adults. But it's a big policy change for MK and I do understand the concern that it might lead to more alcohol sales in other areas of the MK.

Butters

09-14-2012, 12:54 PM

I think we need to take a step back... If you combine the days spent at DW by every poster on this thread I would think its safe to assume we have a large sample size. That being said there has only been one example given of "over the top" drinking.

I'm pretty sure if this thread is ressirected in a year from now everyone will agree this change did not have any impact on their MK experience.

Also one more side note, drinking around the world is a unique experience like going to get a variety custom brew pack, I do not think this will ever happen at MK even if ther were beer carts. We do not see drinking around the continents at AK or drinking to the stars at HS.

Brer_Fox

09-14-2012, 01:15 PM

But back in the real world, it's nice to see adults being treated like adults.

I am still on the fence about this. But all in all, BoG TS from day one, when you look at the menu, has been geared for adults. There is another on going discussion about that topic.

Since that is the case, it only makes sense to offer alcohol at BoG. As adults we are the only ones to make sure we are responsible.

Like Quadstriker stated, its nice to see Disney treating Adults like Adults, and maybe this idea will carry over to other TS restaurants like Narcoosee's and Artist Points, etc. and give us adults some nice children free meals.

bruin1344

09-14-2012, 01:24 PM

I vote for allowing alcohol to be served at MK table service restaurants only. Keep it only beer and wine.

ChipNDale79

09-14-2012, 01:31 PM

For the poster who mentioned the young lady who at Epcot. Well, that was me once, but I was NOT drunk. It was day 1 of a very bad stomach bug that plagued me for the next 3 days of my trip. Sometimes, you gotta and the bushes at Epcot are the best option. Just because you see someone getting sick does NOT mean that person is drunk. Furthermore, even IF that person is drunk, is and I can't understand why a child would be traumatized by seeing that.

I've done the same thing, I wasn't drunk, but it was day 1 of a stomach bug that i had NO IDEA i was getting, I told my wife i didnt feel good so we were going to run back to our hotel for a few, so we decided to catch one of the boats to take us back to future world. I didnt make it to boat, i hit the bushes, there was nothing i could do.

So as this poster stated, just because someone is puking in the park, it doesnt mean they are drunk.

Come to think of it, I think ive only seen a small group of people drunk at EPCOT one time, on Canada day there were a few Canadians celebrating and had a few too many. They werent rude or anything like that, they were just a little loud and were happy.

dpamac

09-14-2012, 01:33 PM

As a beer nerd I can guarantee that no one is going to down two Chimay Blues at dinner unless you are someone used to drinking that sort of beer or a Belgian. Those beers are pretty strong in flavor and will not appeal to the "drink to get drunk" crowd. They are beers that are to be savored and tasted like a very fine wine.

Alcoholic beverages need not be a drunken, besotted endeavor. Properly paired with food they are a taste experience, not a drunk experience. Having an expensive beer on hand doesn't necessarily make something not family friendly. It's what a person decides to do with it that can make it not family friendly. And odds are that person would do something not family friendly anyway.

What would Walt think? He'd hate it. But Walt's also been dead for nearly 50 years. He'd probably also hate that we're walking around his parks looking at our phone screens. Or calling each other in line.

wdwluv

09-14-2012, 01:39 PM

Don't want to debate.

Just want to "vote".

I don't like it. I just don't think it's necessary. Like a previous poster said - that restaurant is going to be jam packed with or without alcohol.

on a side note - Disney food is typically not very good. I'll be curious to "see" (taste) how the food measures up. If it is typicaly bad like most everywhere else (or at least mediocre), is wine and beer really necessary to compliment the meal if it's not good? Or will it just be to dull the senses into thinking it's good. :-P

WDWgoofy

09-14-2012, 01:47 PM

:mad:

ChipNDale79

09-14-2012, 02:06 PM

on a side note - Disney food is typically not very good. I'll be curious to "see" (taste) how the food measures up. If it is typicaly bad like most everywhere else (or at least mediocre), is wine and beer really necessary to compliment the meal if it's not good? Or will it just be to dull the senses into thinking it's good. :-P

That's debatable, ive had some bad meals, some ok meals, and some really good meals.

I thoroughly enjoyed Narcoossee's, Tuto, and the Yachtsman.

Tuto is on our must do list every time we go due to it not being a signature.

I actually think Disney received the feed back that for a signature restaurant their guests expect these offerings. I know I do.

Jared

09-14-2012, 02:27 PM

What would Walt think? He'd hate it. But Walt's also been dead for nearly 50 years. He'd probably also hate that we're walking around his parks looking at our phone screens. Or calling each other in line.
Fantastic comment, Gary. I completely agree. I'd even take it a step further: I argue that we don't know how Walt would react. All we know for certain is that Walt, an avid drinker, didn't allow alcohol in Disneyland. I have not seen any sort of quote attributed to him explaining that rationale, and without that piece of evidence, it's virtually impossible to say "what he would have wanted." Who's to say his mind wouldn't have changed with the times anyway?

Would Walt have complained about booze in EPCOT? How about in California Adventure? I don't know -- I'm all for tradition, but I think it's silly to base decisions off the supposed will of a dead man, particularly when we don't even know for certain what his will was!

I see no problem with this and as long as the beer/wine offerings at MK stay within the boundaries of the upscale restaurants (I'd classify CRT here as well), it's not going to be an issue.
I knew we'd find common ground on something, Nat. We should celebrate with a fancy Belgian beer sometime. ;)

Butters

09-14-2012, 02:33 PM

One more observation.... Many people feel strongly about smoking and exposing children to that will "ruin" the innocence of DW....

But that is allowed in designated areas and for the most part is unnoticed unless your looking for it.

JMTStone

09-14-2012, 02:38 PM

Wine/Beer with dinner is fine.:beer:

Wine/Beer stands throughout the park is not fine. I definitely do not want that to start.

The cost may be prohibitive at the Magic Kingdom to start stands. I.D. checks, etc.

I've seen it on the cruises though... One guy with a beer stein in his hand going bar to bar... and this is a Disney cruise.

I personally don't like either beverage. But I'll have a fruity drink on the deck of the Dream/Magic/Wonder. DH and I enjoyed Saki (sp?) in Japan during Food and Wine festival when we did a trip without the kids. I can tell YOU I was not going on Mission Space after THAT. (I'm a lightweight)

I think the majority of the people who enjoy Disney as a whole are there for the experience... to remember, not to black out. I've seen nobody stumbling around the other parks, obviously drunk and drinks have been served there for years.

Stu29573

09-14-2012, 02:45 PM

I guess my feeling are that if Disney really controls the issue, there shouldn't be a problem, but I have seen an instance where they didn't and it was really really disappointing.

As far as folks who say that the cost alone will prevent this from happening, all I can say if I've seen too many instances of people at bars with credit cards who lose track...

In other words, I don't feel that all "adults" actually are "adults," and Disney needs to monitor this very very carefully.

By the way, yes, my wife and I drink....

wiltsan

09-14-2012, 02:46 PM

I saw a huge fight at Cosmic Ray's and that was without alcohol and just over a table. There are too many people out there who are just rude to begin with and then you add drinks. I am glad to see you can't leave the restaurant and its only at dinner but I can just see the fights over viewing spots for Spectro, Wishes etc.

Mostly, I just think you have way too many kids at MK vs the other parks and it does take away the nostalgia. Walt wanted a park for families that they could enjoy together.

The magic will sure be gone when we see someone stumbling through the arch of the castle with all their kids in tow, strollers etc.

I have to wonder if Universal offers real beer for Butterbeer at the Harry Potter World.

Thumbs down and this coming from a person that enjoys her drinks - I just take it over to the Rose & Crown.

DizneyFreak2002

09-14-2012, 02:57 PM

SBETigg

09-14-2012, 03:24 PM

I think the best point that I have seen made in this thread (from Butters) is to ask how often has anyone seen someone stumbling drunk at a park that offers alcohol besides Epcot? I have seen more than a few posters complaining about witnessing alcohol-related incidents at World Showcase and at a resort, but I've never seen it talked about as an issue at AK or DHS, both of which serve alcohol.

Of course, people who drink excessively could be anywhere. There could be a drunk person in the MK now. People who have serious problems with alcohol are not confining their drinking to where it's easily available, and they're not passing sobriety tests to get into a park in the first place. Limiting the sale of alcohol isn't going to stop the people who have issues with alcohol control any more than selling alcohol is going to automatically create an atmosphere of drunken revelry and copious vomiting (which I still haven't seen anywhere at WDW, not even at World Showcase during the F & W festival).

Quadstriker

09-14-2012, 03:37 PM

on a side note - Disney food is typically not very good. I'll be curious to "see" (taste) how the food measures up. If it is typicaly bad like most everywhere else (or at least mediocre), is wine and beer really necessary to compliment the meal if it's not good? Or will it just be to dull the senses into thinking it's good. :-P

Do you just get hamburgers from quick service your whole trip or go to places that are basically designed to have terrible food like Sci-Fi Diner?

There is an incredible amount of excellent fine dining restaurants at Disney World. Flying Fish, Narcoossees, Captain's Grille, Brown Derby, La Cellier, Cali Grill, etc. etc. etc.

But guess the one thing they ALL have in common? NONE of them are in the Magic Kingdom.

Every trip my wife and I think "Hey, why don't we ever eat in the Magic Kingdom?" then we look at the list of places to eat there and remember exactly why we don't. That's about to change. It's about time.

princessgirls

09-14-2012, 03:50 PM

I think with this type of dining experience, people will want a glass of wine with their meal, and if they don't offer it, maybe people will think twice about eating here once the novelty wears off. The only drawback is one leads leads to another, and before you know it, there will be alcohol in the park. Not all at once, and I could be wrong, but booze is good for profit margins.

Julie:mickey:

ChipNDale79

09-14-2012, 04:00 PM

Do you just get hamburgers from quick service your whole trip or go to places that are basically designed to have terrible food like Sci-Fi Diner?

There is an incredible amount of excellent fine dining restaurants at Disney World. Flying Fish, Narcoossees, Captain's Grille, Brown Derby, La Cellier, Cali Grill, etc. etc. etc.

But guess the one thing they ALL have in common? NONE of them are in the Magic Kingdom.

Every trip my wife and I think "Hey, why don't we ever eat in the Magic Kingdom?" then we look at the list of places to eat there and remember exactly why we don't. That's about to change. It's about time.

Personally I hope this is just the start of it, I hope more places like this open in MK. The possibilities are endless.

I don't want beer stands and I dont want MK to turn into EPCOT and drinking around the world, I want more fine dining restaurants in MK, beer and wine is a part of that.

What could help EPCOT and the drinking "problems" many of you say it has? How about something like Pleasure Island, that would help.

DisneyGlutton

09-14-2012, 04:11 PM

There is an incredible amount of excellent fine dining restaurants at Disney World. Flying Fish, Narcoossees, Captain's Grille, Brown Derby, La Cellier, Cali Grill, etc. etc. etc.

But guess the one thing they ALL have in common? NONE of them are in the Magic Kingdom.

Every trip my wife and I think "Hey, why don't we ever eat in the Magic Kingdom?" then we look at the list of places to eat there and remember exactly why we don't. That's about to change. It's about time.

:thumbsup: :mickey: :thumbsup: :mickey:

Hear, hear! One of the main reasons I go to WDW is for the variety of excellent food. I guess I could have a poor palette, idk :confused: In any case, its a subjective evaluation and I can only state my opinion

DHS is also on my list of parks without good food as I'm not a Brown Derby fan. AK's only good restaurant is Yak & Yeti. We actually find it hard to schedule lunches in the respect that Epcot is chocked full of good places, with scant few elsewhere. While the resorts and their signature dining are awesome, they're not open for lunch. They're also not always convenient, but I am digressing way too much, lol

PETE FROM NYC

09-14-2012, 04:35 PM

Quadstriker

09-14-2012, 04:36 PM

DHS is also on my list of parks without good food as I'm not a Brown Derby fan. AK's only good restaurant is Yak & Yeti. We actually find it hard to schedule lunches in the respect that Epcot is chocked full of good places, with scant few elsewhere. While the resorts and their signature dining are awesome, they're not open for lunch. They're also not always convenient, but I am digressing way too much, lol

I'm right there with you on this one. We could hang out. :thumbsup:

BrerGnat

09-14-2012, 04:41 PM

OK, I did not read every single post here, but I still want to add my two cents.

Most of my friends and acquaintances are at least borderline alcoholics. I personally drink wine when I have Italian food, and on an exceptionally hot day I will have ONE beer, if its frigidly cold. I just do not understand why so many folks think that their day is incomplete without an alcoholic fix.

No one here said anything about "needing" an alcoholic drink.

I don't "need" a dark chocolate covered caramel square from Karamell Kuche every day, either, but if they started selling THOSE property wide, I'd have them more often. :blush: It's about taking part in something that brings people pleasure. For some, it's a good coffee. For others, a good smoke. And, for many, a drink every now and then.

The bottom line is, some people like to drink. Some don't. The choice exists elsewhere at WDW, so it really makes no sense why MK should be any different.

And, before we go guessing what "Walt would have thought", I ask to anyone who is over 40 years old: Do you think the same way NOW as you did 40 years ago? People's opinions are often not static for the duration of their lives.

I used to think I would NEVER want to get married and I would NEVER, EVER have children. Look at me now, not even 20 years later...

big blue and hairy

09-14-2012, 06:01 PM

I have a serious question for everyone: Would your day at MK (or vacation even ) be ruined because wine and beer are being served in a place you may or may not dine in, providing you with a choice to order or not???
Fine question, but what about this? Would your day at the Magic Kingdom be ruined because you do not have access anywhere in the park to alcohol? It hasn't seemed to hurt attendance any. Every question has two sides.

:sulley:

big blue and hairy

09-14-2012, 06:03 PM

darthmacho

09-14-2012, 06:11 PM

on a side note - Disney food is typically not very good. I'll be curious to "see" (taste) how the food measures up. If it is typicaly bad like most everywhere else (or at least mediocre), is wine and beer really necessary to compliment the meal if it's not good? Or will it just be to dull the senses into thinking it's good. :-P

I'm not trying to debate or shoot down your opinion in any way, just politely disagree. While the food at the quick service places has its ups and downs, I honestly have to say that I enjoyed every single sit-down meal at WDW on our recent trip. I did not have a bad meal, or a single mediocre food item at any sit down restaurant this or pretty much any trip.

I'm thinking you must have a much more sophisticated pallet than I do! :blush:

ANG

09-14-2012, 06:27 PM

Wine/Beer with dinner is fine.:beer:

Wine/Beer stands throughout the park is not fine. I definitely do not want that to start.

Ditto this!

DizneyFreak2002

09-14-2012, 06:42 PM

Fine question, but what about this? Would your day at the Magic Kingdom be ruined because you do not have access anywhere in the park to alcohol? It hasn't seemed to hurt attendance any. Every question has two sides.

:sulley:

It is a fair question... But those people who wanted some kind of adult beverage in MK didn't and don't cause a fuss or scream end of the world because they couldn't get a drink... Therefore, someone can say vacations aren't ruined... However, people are acting like the world is ending because MK will serve wine and beer during dinner in 1 restaurant... Therefore, it appears vacations will now be ruined even though the ones complaining are surrounded by alcohol everywhere else they go on property...

big blue and hairy

09-14-2012, 06:55 PM

There are an awful lot of people who love WDW for the tradition. I have to say, I hate IASW, but do I think it should be changed or removed? No, it is a WDW tradition. How many people frequent COP anymore? not as many as used to, or as many as many other attractions. Do I think it should be razed? No, it is a WDW tradition. I realize things change an I am ok with it in most cases. I really think no alcohol in MK is a tradition that should be messed with.

:sulley:

TinkerbellT421

09-14-2012, 07:10 PM

What about the $8 & $9 glasses?

:sulley:

I still don't think anyone will be ordering enough wine or beer, especially the wine or beer listed on this particular menu, during dinner time, to be sloshed walking through the parks. The selection listed is for savoring and for enhancing the tastes of the foods being served. Those beers listed are specialty beers, most of which only particular taste buds could handle. I personally think everyone is making a huge todo about nothing. The sky is not falling, and in time, everyone will see it will be just fine, no one will be drinking enough alcohol to be trampling their kids on the way to ride Pirates. And I think it's a far cry for everyone to assume all of a sudden margarita carts are going to pop up in the middle of the Fantasyland. But, again, it's all personal opinion.

Main Street Jim

09-14-2012, 07:51 PM

There's a part of me that says the Magic Kingdom should retain its "dry" tradition. The other part of me realistically comes to the conclusion that beer and wine at this location is no different from dining at Kona Cafe, the Wave, Narcoosee's and any of the other surrounding restaurants that serve alcoholic drinks before entering the Magic Kingdom with alcohol on board.But those are *resort* locations - OUTSIDE of the Magic Kingdom.

Yes...Walt *did* allow alcohol at Club 33 - but, that was a *very* exclusive location (for Walt's guests and VIP's; you can't just walk up and ask for a table) - membership required (and a seven-year waiting list...) - and it ain't cheap. The other three Florida parks already serve alcohol - there's no need for it at Magic Kingdom in my opinion.

Interesting story:

When Walt was scouting for a location for his "new park" in the early to mid 1960's, one location was to be St. Louis. Augie Busch (of Anheuser-Busch) was going to be one of the largest supporters. When Augie asked Walt if he was going to serve alcohol at his new park in St. Louis, Walt replied, "Certainly not. It's a family park." Augie then asked Walt how he was going to make any money by *not* selling alcohol, and Walt basically told him to "shove it". That's how/why the "new park" ended up in Florida. Walt did not want any alcohol in his "Magic Kingdoms".

dailyprincessme

09-14-2012, 07:55 PM

BrerGnat

09-14-2012, 08:01 PM

So, just want to know, if I post my opinion in this thread, will it get shut down? I'm new here on Intercot, and over at another place, a thread discussing this issue was closed. Just wanted to make sure before I ask any questions, or say something that is potentially offensive:blush:

Welcome! And, absolutely not. Opinions are welcome. Personal attacks, insults, judgmental and argumentative posts are not. Keep it friendly, and no worries.

disney2012

09-14-2012, 08:01 PM

This is my first post, I have been a lurker for years but wanted to comment on this.

I am a huge fan of WDW and Walt left a great legacy, but I think the knee-jerk reaction of "What would Walt have done?" sometimes sugar coats the man.

He was not perfect. Quite frankly, if the original vision for his Epcot was followed to the letter, Disney would very likely be bankrupted because his idea was very utopian and unsustainable long term.

As far as alcohol in the MK, it is an initial shock. Heck, even the alcohol cups they sell in the parks do not have the MK logo on them, lest the castle be associated with beer..however, the rest of WDW resort is alcohol soaked. Let's face it, the alcohol available in the resort gift shops rival some of the hotels in Vegas, and Epcot just about markets alcohol as part of the experience

Hoop De Doo Revue and the Luau have been all you can drink for ages, they are still family friendly. At the MK, now they the genie is out of the bottle, I am sure red wine in Tony's and champagne in the castle is not far behind, but it's not like there will be kegs on Space Mountain.

I would say outside of the boards and Disney fans, if you took a general poll of guests, no on would blink an eye either way, and its a money maker.

Disney Hungarian

09-14-2012, 08:04 PM

Those beers listed are specialty beers, most of which only particular taste buds could handle.
Not wanting to cause a stir or argue in any way. But, one of the beers listed on the menu is Hoegaarden. It is a rather popular beer around here in the local restaurants and watering holes. It has been copied by one of our American breweries and can be found in almost any gas station as "Blue Moon."

dailyprincessme

09-14-2012, 08:14 PM

Welcome! And, absolutely not. Opinions are welcome. Personal attacks, insults, judgmental and argumentative posts are not. Keep it friendly, and no worries.

Thanks:) I wanted to post on this matter because it really bothers me. I have friends/family who specifically go to EPCOT to get drunk or "tipsy" drinking "around the World". Are these same friends going to go to MK to drink? Maybe not to get drunk, but I'll bet you they will go just to drink at BoG. Being a non-drinker myself, I have gone with these same friends, and just felt uncomfortable, but gone just because they're my friends (and my younger sis), and I love them. MK is the one place I didn't have to worry about this! I'm not kidding! I've been the one to take the kids to go "do something else" (kid-friendly) while my friend and sis went to get drinks at EPCOT. I would rather not have to worry about family/friends at least in ONE PARK. It would just be nice. I'm by no means calling anyone "drunkards" or "judging" anyone for their choices to drink. Just saying it would be nice to have some things stay as they are, and make everyone feel included.

Polynesian Dweller

09-14-2012, 08:17 PM

I was also wrong... My bad... Club 33 opened after Walt died...

Yes it opened after his death but it was his idea, actually he got the idea fom VIP lounges at the 1964 World's Fair. But the folks in here trying to say Walt would hate the idea or asking what would Walt do, do not pay homage to him at all. Walt's ideas were for the world as it was 46 years and more before.

The world has changed and if one thing is clear Walt stated clearly that the parks would constantly change and never be finished. His own history says he would change and adapt Disney parks to the expectations of his guests. He did thatwith Disneyland from opening day to 1966.

What would Walt think? No one knows, he isn't here. But it's an absolute certainty that his ideas would be informed by the norms and customs of the current times and not stuck 46 years ago.

TinkerbellT421

09-14-2012, 08:33 PM

Not wanting to cause a stir or argue in any way. But, one of the beers listed on the menu is Hoegaarden. It is a rather popular beer around here in the local restaurants and watering holes. It has been copied by one of our American breweries and can be found in almost any gas station as "Blue Moon."

I never argue ;) just share opinions. The original Hoegaarden has distinct flavor differences from Blue Moon. Hoeegarden is still a particular Belgium type beer requiring the right taste buds to enjoy its flavors. But I agree as more people become fond of unique and or craftier beers, the tastes seemingly do start to get copied along the way.

DizneyFreak2002

09-14-2012, 08:41 PM

Yes it opened after his death but it was his idea, actually he got the idea fom VIP lounges at the 1964 World's Fair. But the folks in here trying to say Walt would hate the idea or asking what would Walt do, do not pay homage to him at all. Walt's ideas were for the world as it was 46 years and more before.

The world has changed and if one thing is clear Walt stated clearly that the parks would constantly change and never be finished. His own history says he would change and adapt Disney parks to the expectations of his guests. He did thatwith Disneyland from opening day to 1966.

What would Walt think? No one knows, he isn't here. But it's an absolute certainty that his ideas would be informed by the norms and customs of the current times and not stuck 46 years ago.

Thanks for the clarification... For some reason I thought it opened while Walt was alive, then I looked it up and found it opened after he died...

There are a lot of "traditions" Walt believed in during the 50's... Those "traditions" would be deemed hateful today... So, if the company were to follow Walt's 1950's traditions, then, well, wine in the MK would be the least of their problems as they would be in court constantly for discrimination cases...

Times change... This isn't Walt's Disney Company anymore...

Walt didn't like long hair or facial hair on male employees... That tradition has now been ended... Did the world end???

Women, at one time, weren't allowed to be bare legged as part of the uniform, having to wear stockings/hose... That rule, er, "tradition" has changed.. Again, did the world end cause Walt's "traditions" were changed??? No... And the world won't end cause some wine is being served in MK...

Altair

09-14-2012, 08:41 PM

"To beer, the cause of and solution to, all the world's problems. - Homer Simpson:thedolls:

disney2012

09-14-2012, 09:11 PM

"To beer, the cause of and solution to, all the world's problems. - Homer Simpson:thedolls:

Beer ruined Duff gardens!

Gator

09-14-2012, 09:21 PM

[really big bold font]
"PLEASE WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!"

But back in the real world, it's nice to see adults being treated like adults. It makes no sense to me that a glass of wine that someone else is drinking with their dinner could get someone upset. Live and let live.

The problem: a lot of adults with a few glasses of wine or a couple of beers in them stop acting like adults. And some of you will claim that you can hold your liqour and it's not a problem. You know how many time I've heard that very line right before people start getting stupid?

No one has adequately explained why this is needed in the MK. For all the DDP haters and those who say food has declined, will wine and beer really suddenly make your meal better? Just order a Coke and be happy.

Disney Hungarian

09-14-2012, 09:38 PM

No one has adequately explained why this is needed in the MK..
I don't think any one of us could explain why this is needed as it is certainly well above most of our security clearances. What I believe is happening: BOG is the only cash cow in the FLE. Early indicators...ie the rush for ADRs that crashed the phone system for the whole Disney resort.. sent a strong message to the bean counters. The sheer popularity made them think about how they could increase and maximize revinue. Easiest thing to do is offer the most profitable item in any restaurant. Alcohol. They can look at all of their restaurants and determine how many tables order alcohol with their meals. Having that information and taking the real numbers and dollars they would lose by not selling alcohol at BOG to the traditionalist in the corp. it was probably an easy sell. Just my guess.

Mfarquar

09-14-2012, 09:44 PM

While I am not able to speak for all "you people.' I think it may have to do more with tradition and principle than drunkeness.

I could not agree more.

Besides, this $8 - $9 beer means no one will get drunk argument is getting old. Has anyone ever witnessed drinking at Fenway or Yankee stadiums? For that matter, any major city in the US. I normally pay $13 -16 a glass (wine, liquor) when out, which is mainly in cities and there are PLENTY of drunkards in those environments. In fact, I've seen it more than I'd like to admit at EPCOT. REGARDLESS, as I've said previously, I think Disney will handle it OK. The possibility of drunks will always exist ANYWHERE alcohol is served because everyone's tolerance is different. This not the point here - it's tradition, the opportunity for Disney to increase their profit margins in this individual restaurant while testing out how alcohol goes over in MK (and thus, seeing if it would go over well in other locations in that particular park).

Let's take the logical route here and move on from the "drinks are not cheap here, therefore no one will get drunk" argument...

Mfarquar

09-14-2012, 09:45 PM

i don't think any one of us could explain why this is needed as it is certainly well above most of our security clearances. What i believe is happening: Bog is the only cash cow in the fle. Early indicators...ie the rush for adrs that crashed the phone system for the whole disney resort.. Sent a strong message to the bean counters. The sheer popularity made them think about how they could increase and maximize revinue. Easiest thing to do is offer the most profitable item in any restaurant. Alcohol. They can look at all of their restaurants and determine how many tables order alcohol with their meals. Having that information and taking the real numbers and dollars they would lose by not selling alcohol at bog to the traditionalist in the corp. It was probably an easy sell. Just my guess.

Well said, Disney Hungarian!

Mfarquar

09-14-2012, 09:50 PM

But those are *resort* locations - OUTSIDE of the Magic Kingdom.

Yes...Walt *did* allow alcohol at Club 33 - but, that was a *very* exclusive location (for Walt's guests and VIP's; you can't just walk up and ask for a table) - membership required (and a seven-year waiting list...) - and it ain't cheap. The other three Florida parks already serve alcohol - there's no need for it at Magic Kingdom in my opinion.

Interesting story:

When Walt was scouting for a location for his "new park" in the early to mid 1960's, one location was to be St. Louis. Augie Busch (of Anheuser-Busch) was going to be one of the largest supporters. When Augie asked Walt if he was going to serve alcohol at his new park in St. Louis, Walt replied, "Certainly not. It's a family park." Augie then asked Walt how he was going to make any money by *not* selling alcohol, and Walt basically told him to "shove it". That's how/why the "new park" ended up in Florida. Walt did not want any alcohol in his "Magic Kingdoms".

That IS a very interesting story. Yes, things change, things evolve. However, I feel like they should evolve in the spirit of the tradition of the parks. Without this, we lose the identity of the Disney parks we hold dear. Its yet another compromise that will lead to more and more decisions completely motivated by profit with a disregard for what the park is supposed to mean under the guise of "customer service". To me, this is one of the things you don't mess with and what disappoints me about this decision...

Melanie

09-14-2012, 11:23 PM

Terra

09-14-2012, 11:23 PM

To be honest the whole issue of alcohol and how it can be so 'taboo' is almost comical and so Americanized in thinking IMO.

I'm all for it. I don't believe in restricting rights or making something taboo based on fear. I have a glass of wine with dinner a few times a week. My husband may have a mixed drink or a beer. My children are right there. However having family from overseas and it just being a natural part of life, I just don't get the keep it dry mentality. But that is just my own opinion!

Cinderelley

09-14-2012, 11:55 PM

Mousemates

09-15-2012, 12:29 AM

So I guess you don't take your kids to Epcot, DAK, DHS, to see Fantasmic, or to any restaurant in any other part of WDW??? And you don't stay in any WDW resort since alcohol is served all over??? Do you avoid DTD as well??? Cause they are exposed to "that stuff" everywhere in WDW...

This issue, like so many for parents, is neither an all in or all out kind of thing...and the truth is that as regular posters on Intercot most all of us know from previous posts that Gator has not avoided taking his family to the other Disney parks or to Fantasmic.

He, as most parents likely ultimately do, sometimes chooses to take his family to places that aren't completely morally pristine or where elements of the prevailing culture create personal moral tension. And I would imagine that he, like me, probably attempts to use those situations (where culture and personal family values collide) as teachable moments where he strives to pass his values to the children he raises. This is of course simply part of parenting.

However, as a parent it is nice to have times (like a vacation) when you can escape having to constantly be on guard against what you perceive to be negative influencers on your family. And while WDW as a whole was not such a place (in regards to the issue of alcohol), the MK did provide an area of reprieve where there was one less issue to deal with.

To those who view it in that way, the addition of adult beverages into this particular setting is also especially disappointing because it feels a bit like some of the innocence (of a place built with children and families in mind) is being lost.

ryca1dreams

09-15-2012, 09:52 AM

So, what does everyone think?

Meh.

Children are very easily influenced.

Hopefully children are influenced more by their parents than the behavior of a complete stranger or a restaurant menu.

Brer_Fox

09-15-2012, 10:00 AM

Tradition is what you make it to be.

The kewl thing about Tradition is that over years Tradition evolve. Let me explain.

As you grow up as a child your parents pass down there ideas and traditions to you. As you get older and more mature you hold on to these same traditions but they change because you are different then your parents. Any while you still have that core foundation you grew up with your traditions change slightly to encompass your own ideas. The same thing happens when you have kids, and they have there own ideas and you incorporate there ideas into your traditions.

So too, Walt was the founder and he had his traditions. But over the years as Disney grew up so too those traditions have embraced new ones and evolved.

Traditions evolve, they are what we make them to be. And this is just Disney taking what Walt started with and adding there own ideas.

SBETigg

09-15-2012, 10:38 AM

Melanie

09-15-2012, 11:05 AM

Well, not the 90s. I honeymooned in 1990 and came home with shot glasses.

Weird. Because I know it was that time period. Maybe it was just one that had Magic Kingdom on it. :confused:

Disney Hungarian

09-15-2012, 11:05 AM

For me this was just one of the things that set Disney apart from the competition.
I drink beer and my family has a vineyard in Hungary. So I do enjoy a good glass of wine too. I had no problem with the MK not serving alcohol. I have no problem with MK serving alcohol. I just liked the fact that it was kept dry as a tradition.
Having reflected on this; I tend to fuss about Disney, not because I don't like Disney. I fuss because I want Disney to succeed. I want Disney to be very profitable so the maintenance can be done. I want Disney to succeed because I want to continue to visit there. I don't think this new policy will hurt Disney's bottom line so I will just have to accept it. My fussing about it is over.

big blue and hairy

09-15-2012, 11:51 AM

When you come down to it, there are several reasons not to put alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. They have been discussed here. On the other hand, no-one will convince me that there is more than one compelling reason to put alcohol in the MK, profit. Alcohol is the most profitable thing sold in restaurants. I guarantee you, if this happens, wine and beer will end up in Tony's, because "surveyed guests said they wanted it". How do you make an all you can eat place that is always full more profitable? Beer and wine, it's coming to Crystal Palace as well. This is the opening TDO needed, a new different restaurant. After some time has passed, it will start showing up elsewhere.

If you don't think anyone will get drunk on $8 -$9 wine and beer, you are naive. It happens everywhere. How much is wine and beer in Epcot?

Do I drink wine and beer at WDW? Yes. Do I think it should be at MK, no.

:sulley:

dailyprincessme

09-15-2012, 12:32 PM

Well, I've heard so many reasons (mostly from people who like to drink...not all people who like to drink, but most) of why wine and beer should be served in MK, how it won't affect anything, and how most people won't blink an eye at the fact, but in my opinion, it's just justification for them to get to do what they want to do. Like I have said in a previous post, my family and friends have made it a point to seek out the alcoholic drinks in EPCOT (that's one of the reasons they like to go. To get drinks) and I'm sure they'll seek it out at BoG (regardless of prices). It's just something else that will make me uncomfortable. I'm very excited to see, and eat in this beautiful new restaurant, so I will just try to focus on the theme and food, instead of anything else. Just gonna try to make the best of it:)

Tekneek

09-15-2012, 12:45 PM

Oh well. Suppose this finally puts the "What would Walt do?" questions out to pasture once and for all.

I wish they weren't doing it, but there's no going back from this.

I can understand the case that has been made. However, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will stop at this. If there is one thing current management is consistent at, it is taking a "good thing" and overdoing it. If it is going over well, especially if it is making money hand over fist, they are unlikely to be able to resist the temptation to take it one step further. They've done it with everything over recent years. Always taking something one or two steps further than they really should.

MNNHFLTX

09-15-2012, 01:06 PM

I can understand how this news would put some people off--I did a bit of a double-take myself when I heard it. But in the end I don't think it's that big of a deal. In any case, there is really nothing to do but wait and see if any of the doom-and-gloom prophecies come to pass. Personally, I think it will be just fine and the Magical Kingdom will remain magical. As far as kids, if a parent is opposed to their children witnessing beer and wine being served at the restaurant, then just don't bring them to dinner there. Lunch will be alcohol-free.

I would say outside of the boards and Disney fans, if you took a general poll of guests, no on would blink an eye either way, and its a money maker.
I totally agree with this statement. I think the people who frequent the WDW boards and go to Disney World on a regular basis tend to be much more traditionalist than the general public.

Dixie Springs

09-15-2012, 01:06 PM

I really did like the 'innocence' of MK with the former policy of no booze. It was just sort of a cool, unique thing to do.

But true Disney fans know that the Beast often drank himself into a stupor over his cursed form. This will make for a more accurate portrayal of the story.

Mousemates

09-15-2012, 02:17 PM

I can understand the case that has been made. However, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will stop at this. If there is one thing current management is consistent at, it is taking a "good thing" and overdoing it. If it is going over well, especially if it is making money hand over fist, they are unlikely to be able to resist the temptation to take it one step further. They've done it with everything over recent years. Always taking something one or two steps further than they really should.

I regretfully suspect you will be proven correct.

Kathy Jetson

09-15-2012, 02:44 PM

I remember back in the late 80s, early 90s when you couldn't even purchase a shot glass anywhere on property. I distinctly remember because my friend collected them, and we went to WDW for spring break every year, and she could never find any. I know it's not equivalent to this decision, but I remember being surprised when I saw them popping up various places.

I'm okay with this. Yes, I enjoy a good drink, and have no issue with having beer or wine available as part of a fine dining experience. But like many others, beer/wine carts and availability at QS restaurants just wouldn't seem right, and I do hope they don't go that direction.

I was very surprised on our last trip I saw shot glasses everywhere. Maybe I just never noticed them before. When I got home from vacation I was looking at the Disney Store on line and they had a lot of them there to but they call them toothpick holders. I know a shot glass when I see one:) Anyway I just thought it was interesting they didn't call them shot glasses.

Quadstriker

09-15-2012, 02:45 PM

Okay it's time to talk about the beverage menu.

Very glad to see the Fairy Tale champagne. It's one of our favorites. Wish we could get it elsewhere. We have a bottle of it stashed away for a special occasion.

Was hoping they'd have Rosa Regale as their Rose. They have it at many other restaurants at Disney. I'm not familiar with their offering there.

I'm not a fan of dessert wine at all, but I could be convinced to try the La Fleur, it sounds interesting.

The Hoegaarden is the only beer I've had, and it's not my favorite. I normally prefer darker beers so I'll probably try the Chimay when I visit.

dlpmikki

09-15-2012, 03:50 PM

When the Magic Kingdom park opened at Eurodisney it had the same tradition of no alcohol. It also had had some very good restaurants (including one called Walts on Main Street). The Europeans could not understand this at all - even my mother-in-law was completely surprised that she could not get a glass of wine with her nice meal. The no alcohol rule did not last long but I believe you can still only get drinks at the table service restaurants and from a small selection of wines. I haven't seen any drunkenness in the park over there.

It may be a different issue in Florida. I haven't been to the food and wine festival for some years because I have really hated seeing the state people get into. I hope people are sensible with this new restaurant and that the food warrants the change. If it is really good then wine might enhance the experience if you like it. Have to say Coke would not be a drink I associate with good food - water would more to my taste. I like Coke but not with a nice meal!

Guess I am on the wall about whether it is a good idea but it has been happening in Paris for nearly 20 years.

Aurora

09-15-2012, 03:58 PM

I really waited to post on this one. I totally understand both sides. Florida isn't dry, and it's kind of silly to think people couldn't get drunk over at Epcot and then hop the monorail to the MK. Practically speaking, you're already not really keeping alcohol out of the MK. And if it's served at restaurants only, that's OK with me.

I AM slightly surprised that they decided to make this decision after so many reports lately about drunk and rowdy people drinking their way around the world at Epcot. I've never been during Food & Wine, and I suspect the kiosks and the more adult atmosphere have a lot to do with that.

I'm guessing that Disney is taking a "let's try this and see" approach here. It's a new restaurant and easy to do with the menu. Let's face it, the magnifying glass is really big here, and if guests do get out of control, Disney will get more of a black eye PR-wise if anything happens at the MK than at any other park.

PirateLover

09-15-2012, 04:27 PM

While I'm surprised this happened, I'm OK with it. We were discussing the idea in a previous thread and I pretty much said I would be fine with exactly what ended up happening- Only beer and wine, only if you have a reservation, no bar or "to-go" option. As has been mentioned, people enter the MK with alcohol in their system every day, you probably just don't know it. I won't deny stopping at the Tambu lounge to have some Lapu Lapus before heading over to the MK once. I did not offend anyone, I didn't stumble around, I did not vomit on anyone. I might have laughed a little harder than usual at Splash Mountain during Laughing Place scene, but overall I'm quite certain that I did not ruin anyone else's experience.

That being said I do think some of the fears out there have a basis. I think, what this speaks to, is the culture of binge drinking and people taking things too far. This is definitely a problem overall in America as compared to many European countries, for example. I have read the posts about people witnessing this type of behavior at World Showcase, so I do believe that it happens, but in all my trips to WDW I have never seen anyone acting completely outrageous and totally drunk in any of the parks, like I do see any given weekend at a local bar or restaurant, Atlantic City, etc. I did "drinking around the world" with my family before but we shared some drinks because to be honest, it's expensive! I just can't see many people getting ressies at BoG just to be able to plant their butt and get sloshed. I think it's respectable that MK lasted so long keeping to its dry tradition, but I don't think this is going to be the end of fantasyland civilization as we know it. :cool:

Jared

09-15-2012, 05:06 PM

Jared, that's a really good point. One that makes me sad to reflect on, but good point.
Thanks, Sherri. It's not a point I necessarily wanted to make, but I feel it's necessary.

In reading this thread (and it has been a good one, for the most part), I think there really are three arguments being made concurrently. They each have their merits and their pratfalls, but I think ultimately only one of them holds any real water.

1) Walt Disney (allegedly) didn't want alcohol in Disneyland, and therefore he wouldn't want alcohol in the Magic Kingdom -- I think this one has been practically debunked at this point. Many people, including myself, have written about the concept of basing decisions on the will of a dead man.

A few of you have brought up the old story about Disney and Busch. It certainly is a fantastic story, and I bet it's at least based in fact -- but I highly doubt it's true.

Walt was a storyteller. He didn't always live in truth and reality. So many supposed stories about Walt are just that -- stories. They have grown and expanded and become something entirely different: "Waltisms." Did Walt actually want the Utilidors in the Magic Kingdom because he saw a cowboy in Tomorrowland? Did he decide to "plus" the Jungle Cruise because he really overheard a mother telling her daughter they didn't need to ride it this time? I suppose it's possible, at least to an extent. But I've studied enough about Walt's life to know that a lot of stories -- Waltisms -- aren't entirely true. So although the Busch-Disney yarn is a great story for fans to tell and for the company to quote when convenient, that's not enough to persuade me.

(As an aside, do you all know the famous Walt quote "if you can dream it, you can do it?" If you say yes, you're wrong. Because that's not a Walt quote. That line was actually written by Imagineer Tom Fitzgerald for the Horizons attraction. It's been attributed to Walt so much over the years that most people believe he said it.

2) Alcohol is wrong. What about the children? -- Everybody is entitled to their opinions regarding alcohol. But in this context, it's pretty much irrelevant. The other three theme parks have alcohol. If it's morally wrong in the Magic Kingdom, it's morally wrong in Epcot, Hollywood Studios and the Animal Kingdom. The notion of the Magic Kingdom being more "pure" than the other parks is just silly and unrealistic. If you're against alcohol and you visit the other Disney parks, you can be against alcohol and visit the Magic Kingdom. It's that simple.

3) The Magic Kingdom being dry is a tradition, and it should remain that way for the sake of the tradition -- I think this is the the best argument and the one I can accept. I am all for traditions when appropriate. I am fine with the Magic Kingdom being dry simply because it's always been dry. Honestly, that's good enough for me. But traditions change sometimes. So it goes. Sometimes it's for the best.

I think this is what I fear the most. I'm actually happy that I wasn't one of the "lucky" ones to get an ADR at BOG so that we won't have to deal with the alcohol issue. But if it starts here, it will start spreading to all of MK. But it won't even stop there, I fear. It will soon jump across the country and land in Disneyland.

Alcohol is like the Borg. We will all be assimilated.
Seriously? My man, this statement is so out there that it borders on trollish. We get it, you're against alcohol. I'm not sure your feelings aren't unfounded. I rarely drink and totally understand your objections. But if you feel this strongly about it, how can you visit the other parks in good conscious? Doesn't it make you feel like a hypocrite? Or is your beef specifically with alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. In that case, you're making an entirely different argument altogether.

Mousemates

09-15-2012, 05:14 PM

When you come down to it, there are several reasons not to put alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. They have been discussed here. On the other hand, no-one will convince me that there is more than one compelling reason to put alcohol in the MK, profit.
:sulley:

Sure its a money thing and the movement to alcohol in the MK is also likely connected to a demographic shift in Disneys patrons. The percentage of adults in our nation who drink alcohol typically bounces between 55% and 70% (which means non drinking adults is between 45% and 30%).

However, those are simply overall numbers...the percentage of people who drink alcohol rises with income levels (with those who make above $75000 a year drinking hit the statistical high mark of 81%). As Disney has become more expensive over the years, its clientele (by necessity) has become more and more affluent as less affluent visitors are priced out of the market (we have many discussion on intercot where this reality is mentioned).

Well, that shift to a wealthier customer base has made it statistically more likely that the folks who vacation at Disney are more likely to imbibe than the general population. one would expect guest surveys to reflect this trend and one would also expect the folks who make decisions (especially those who make them purely form a financial perspective) to seek the new revenue stream. I understand that.

However,I for one don't like it, because i think the addition of adult beverages in the most child focused area of WDW (fantasyland in the MK) will steal away some of the "child like innocence" from the happiest part of the happiest place on earth.

Seems to me that the current arrangement didn't stunt the MKs growth over the years. I think it is worth noting that the MK is still by far the most popular park even without adult beverages. I wish they would just leave things the way they are. But apparently that is not going to be the case. Time will tell if its a mistake. I hope problems are minimal.

:twocents:

dailyprincessme

09-15-2012, 05:28 PM

With out going into too much detail on my personal & religious beliefs, I have to say that I absolutely loved that there were fine dining options at Disney where I did not have to explain to a waiter that we didn't need the wine menu as neither my wife nor I drink. The looks that I have received from waiters (even at WDW - especially California Grill, Les Chefs de France, and Le Cellier) are scaithing at worst, indignant at best. The reason is just as everyone has mentioned before - alcohol is a very profitable item to have on a menu. I have worked at fine dining in Hilton Head, SC and know from personal experience that managers push for upselling the customers to high profit items and that waiters want to do this as it raises the ticket total. Because we do not drink, we are not ordering that high ticket item, and therefore the amount the waiter's tip is based on will be less.

This coupled with the fact that ALL alcohol smells like urine to me doesn't help my dining experience at all. :sick: Besides, when did beer become fancy? I am baffled by that completely, and yes, I understand that it will be imported from France and Belgium, but it's still beer in a nice glass instead of a red solo cup! Beer in this country is associated with bars, tailgating, and college parties not fine dining.

To those that say that wine and beer are needed for the profit margins - I would say look to Cinderella's Royal Table. That restaurant is a prime example - it is ALWAYS completely booked in advance. BoG will be exactly the same, especially for the first year or so as it will be so bright and shinney and new! Alcohol being on their menu or it's absence will not play a factor in how many people dine there just as it doesn't at CRT. People go to CRT for the atmosphere/romanticism of dining in the castle and then the food. BoG will be exactly the same way - people want to experience the story of Beauty and the Beast. We have loved that story for decades now (yikes) and now we get to go into the story! The restaurant will book up regardless of what is served there. Alcohol is only there to drive up ticket averages.

I don't think that alcohol has a place in the Magic Kingdom. It was taught to us in Traditions when I was a CM many years ago that this was a decision made by Walt to ensure that the park was a family friendly environment. Will alcohol make the entire park not family friendly, no, but it does take it a step away from being a park where the entire family can go regardless of age and experience a wonderful time together - the reason Walt built Disneyland in the first place.

To those that say that you HAVE to have wine with a meal to fully appreciate it, I call schinanigans! Good food is good food and does not require alcohol to enjoy. If the chef wanted to, there are ways of having non-fermented grape juice that would compliment the food.
My last point is that the decision to choose a restaurant that is in Fantasyland as their first restaurant that would serve alcohol and deviate from a 41 year tradition is just poor judgement. Fantasyland is about the children, imagination, and fantasy. I would have slightly less of a hard time accepting this at Liberty Tree Tavern or at Tony's, but really, Fantasyland? So disappointing.

Sorry for the long post, but this really disappoints me and has dampened my excitement for not only this restaurant, but for the entire Fantasyland expansion. There will always be change, but when we loose sight of where we come from and the traditions that have made us who we are, then we have truly lost a part of ourselves. WDW has lost a part of itself in the name of profit.

:thumbsup: I seriously have thought that my husband and I were the only couple left (who ISN'T expecting) that didn't drink. Um...can we all have a Disney Meet someday:mickey:

Gator

09-15-2012, 05:33 PM

Seriously? My man, this statement is so out there that it borders on trollish. We get it, you're against alcohol. I'm not sure your feelings aren't unfounded. I rarely drink and totally understand your objections. But if you feel this strongly about it, how can you visit the other parks in good conscious? Doesn't it make you feel like a hypocrite? Or is your beef specifically with alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. In that case, you're making an entirely different argument altogether.

I hate it at all parks. But when you're at war with something, and I consider myself at war with alcohol, you take positions and try to defend them. Do you think anyone would listen to me if I called for an all out ban at WDW? I know better. It's entrenched at the other parks. But I have to hold my ground somewhere, and I think the MK is the last castle to defend. Unfortunately, I've lost the flag on this one.

This will be my last opinion that should be shared on this matter in this forum. I really can't expect everyone to hate it like I do without experiencing it like I have. Nor would I ever want anyone to experience it the way I have. And that's exactly why I fight against it at every oppurtunity.

dailyprincessme

09-15-2012, 05:54 PM

I hate it at all parks. But when you're at war with something, and I consider myself at war with alcohol, you take positions and try to defend them. Do you think anyone would listen to me if I called for an all out ban at WDW? I know better. It's entrenched at the other parks. But I have to hold my ground somewhere, and I think the MK is the last castle to defend. Unfortunately, I've lost the flag on this one.

This will be my last opinion that should be shared on this matter in this forum. I really can't expect everyone to hate it like I do without experiencing it like I have. Nor would I ever want anyone to experience it the way I have. And that's exactly why I fight against it at every oppurtunity.

Funny, I was JUST thinking, "I wonder how many people, who are against drinks being served in MK would actually give up going there next time they made a trip to WDW." instead go to all of the other parks, DTD and resorts, and I was like, "No one at all." I would be willing not to go, and if I could OF ALL PEOPLE (and I know non of you know me, but let's just say, it's a HUGE DEAL) why wouldn't anyone else who's against it do it? What an insanely crazy thought...

PirateLover

09-15-2012, 05:56 PM

Are we really going to go down sob story lane? Look, people drink irresponsibly. People die because of it and people have been killed as a result of others drinking. That is a fact. I bet we all know of someone who has struggled with alcohol. I know I do (know others, that is). But that does not mean that EVERY person who picks up a drink is going to turn into some raving savage lunatic. When the day comes that Aloha Isle starts selling Dole Whips spiked with Vodka, then I will agree that things have gone too far. I highly doubt that day will come.

Daisy'sMom

09-15-2012, 05:59 PM

I love a glass of wine with my meals and enjoy a beer once in a while. If I want a margarita at WDW, I go to Epcot. I hope that they do not allow anything more than the wine and beer at MK, I love tradition and hate the idea of things changing there.
I have seen to many inebriated guests at Epcot and during the wine and food fest, I can barely tolerate the obnoxious behavior. Knowing that the same people go to MK, I do not like the idea of alcohol being served at MK. I am sadly disappointed in the Disney Co.:(

DizneyFreak2002

09-15-2012, 06:33 PM

Well, I haven't read through the multiple pages of this thread to see everyone's answers, but the biggest drawback to me is the fact that they've linked it with Beauty and the Beast. Children are very easily influenced.

The same Beauty and the Beast where they mention wine being served in "Be Our Guest" song, where champagne bottles are popped during the song (oh and also in PhilharMagic)... Where Gaston and his buddies drink beer in his tavern, and Lefou even asks him if he wants more beer, and appears Gaston drowns his sorrows in alcohol... That Beauty and the Beast?

Jared

09-15-2012, 06:34 PM

The same Beauty and the Beast where they mention wine being served in "Be Our Guest" song, where champagne bottles are popped during the song (oh and also in PhilharMagic)... Where Gaston and his buddies drink beer in his tavern, and Lefou even asks him if he wants more beer, and appears Gaston drowns his sorrows in alcohol... That Beauty and the Beast?
"Wine's been poured and thank the Lord, I've had the napkins freshly pressed."

Melanie

09-15-2012, 07:00 PM

Okay folks, I completely sympathize with personal feelings regarding alcohol, although the arguments presented here with regards to what we're discussing (ONE TS restaurant at MK serving beer and wine during dinner hours) have just about left me speechless. :jaw: I'm actually a bit confused considering there are many of us here at INTERCOT who happily enjoy a :beer: or some :wine:, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Yes, there are idiots in this world, and yes accidents happen, but fact is, alcohol is a part of our society.

Points have been made on all sides, and it's now time to move on. I don't want to close this thread because this is big news, and civil discussion is warranted. Should :beat: continue, posts will be deleted.

PirateLover

09-15-2012, 07:12 PM

Pregnant women also aren't supposed to eat sushi, among other things. At any rate I do believe there are valid criticisms for serving alcohol, but blaming all the ills of the world on it is decidedly antiquated. You can choose not drink, but don't condemn everyone that does. We are not all evil. I'm sure Disney will not let MK become overrun with adults three sheets to the wind.

dailyprincessme

09-15-2012, 07:26 PM

I really don't see how this at all relates to my point at all. I said that we shouldn't necessarily stand by "what Walt wanted" because sometimes what he wanted isn't exactly acceptable today. Your response was just another overarching attack on the dangers of alcohol -- a message I sympathize with, but it doesn't really add to a discussion about whether alcohol belongs specifically in the Magic Kingdom.

I do apologize. My thinking was that the whole "drinking in MK" is being looked at as "it's just a glass or two of beer or wine with dinner" but when "just a glass or two" could pose potential health dangers in any way, shape or form, then I feel that it does not belong at the most magical place on earth. Yes, it is at EPCOT, DHS, and AK, and none of those hold the same "magic" to me as MK will.

Stu29573

09-15-2012, 07:58 PM

The bottom line is that it doesnt matter a bit what any of us think. They are going to do what they are going to do. I will never be totally for it, many will never be against it, but it doesnt matter because WE dont matter. Therefore I excuse myself from this thread and choose to focus on better and brighter things..... :cloud9:

CanadianWDWFan

09-15-2012, 08:06 PM

Been sitting back reading all the posts, now I feel comfortable posting.

With out going into too much detail on my personal & religious beliefs, I have to say that I absolutely loved that there were fine dining options at Disney where I did not have to explain to a waiter that we didn't need the wine menu as neither my wife nor I drink. The looks that I have received from waiters (even at WDW - especially California Grill, Les Chefs de France, and Le Cellier) are scaithing at worst, indignant at best...
Really? When we go out to restaurants at WDW and don't order drinks I have NEVER seen wait staff give me or my wife the look. We have never had to explain ourselves for our choice.

All around this planet we call home, there are countless folks enjoy a drink without going overboard. I for one would not consider passing on travelling anywhere simply for the fact that they do or don't sell alcohol. I don't care one way or the other how one chooses enjoy their meal or experience, it is their choice after all. Who am I to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do.

Disney Hungarian

09-15-2012, 08:58 PM

I do wish some of the CM's that frequent these boards would have spoken up on this.

dailyprincessme

09-15-2012, 09:13 PM

Husband and I were just talking about the reasoning behind serving alcoholic beverages in MK. I pointed out that CRT has been the only Signature dining in all of MK, and it's remained 'dry" for how many years? DH said that he thinks Disney has been wanting to add the alcohol to MK for a long time (because of the $$$ it will make), and is using BoG as the front for the reasoning behind it. Just makes you wonder.

John

09-15-2012, 09:14 PM

Let me jump in here -

If you are...

a) piling on to posts
b) posting multiple times in a row
c) posting 8-10 times in 2-3 pages
d) repeating your personal views why you hate drinking or are fervently for it...

STEP BACK AND WALK AWAY FROM THE THREAD.

I have gone thru all 7 pages and deleted a lot of posts.

I love a good discussion as much as anyone but there are times when people get too invested in something and don't know when it's best to let your thoughts and posts BREATHE and maybe just soak in what everyone else is saying.

Look, I personally am kind of against MK having alcohol. It's more or a traditionalist argument and if you listen to the podcast, you know that's pretty much where I live.

That being said - I LOVE LOVE LOVE enjoying a nice adult beverage at Epcot or sampling food and beverages around the world during the food and wine festival. I also like pairing good food with good wine.

Reality is - this isn't going to effect my experience at the Magic Kingdom. I don't think it's needed - but I'm not in charge and it's not something I'm going to stop going to Disney for.

So, before you post - think about what you're saying. And if you do post - give people time to respond and don't log jam the thread.

All of the moderators are keeping an eye on this one - and we WILL be deleting things where appropriate and if you can't chill - giving people Time Outs.

We knew the response to this would be strong on both sides - lets just keep it thoughtful and respectful.

Thank You.

Dsnygirl

09-15-2012, 09:23 PM

I do wish some of the CM's that frequent these boards would have spoken up on this.

:blush: I did, MUCH earlier in the thread, but it's approached areas that angels fear to tread, to that makes me a bit leary, too... ;)

But here is my :twocents:, for what it's worth...

I don't have a problem with alcohol being served at BoG. I think it fits in with the atmosphere they are trying to create, and is a nice addition. I also have liked the traditional thought of MK remaining dry, as a point of tradition... but that still doesn't change my thought that maybe this is an okay change.

I don't get all the debates on what Walt would or would not have wanted... to second-guess a man who's been gone as long as the park has been open is silly at best, useless at most. We have NO idea truly where he would have stood in TODAY'S day & age.

I don't understand the theory that it is wrong b/c of "the children". If that is the case, and we try to say that they are young and impressionable while there, then what of all the parents who drink (responsibly) in front of their children at home, or at a restaurant anywhere else? Is that wrong? I would hope my children are more influenced by MY behavior than that of a storybook/fairytale character, and that what I speak and teach them holds more water with them than what they see during one meal on vacation.

I completely understand the feelings of those who have had alcohol ruin areas of their life, and why they have a problem with it, as a whole. Completely understandable. But other things have ruined lives, as well, and you can't hold an all-out war against everything that has had a negative impact on your life and say it is bad for the rest of the world, then, as well. If it is THAT big an issue, avoid it overall - don't pinpoint one particular aspect and claim it to be the "be all and end all". If you abstain, or don't want to be around alcohol, then fine - don't make an ADR. But don't make the sweeping claim & assumption that it will become the next big problem, and certainly don't allow it to ruin what is probably the most MINOR part of your vacation!

I could make comments to SO much of what I have read, and I think some really valid points have been made. I'm honestly surprised that this decision has gotten this much attention! But overall, I've enjoyed what I've read, and hope we can keep the rest of the discussion in keeping with having open minds and kind words. :)

Disney Hungarian

09-15-2012, 09:41 PM

Thank you Blythe!

Tekneek

09-15-2012, 09:50 PM

I am disappointed by the decision, but it is what it is. I hope it works out for the best and doesn't end up being a slippery slope. Upon more reflection, the setting seems unusual given how Fantasyland has always been perceived as the place frequented most by the youngest guests, but hopefully we won't find some unintended consequences resulting from that.

disneydeb

09-16-2012, 01:33 AM

I agree with some of every post I have read.
That being said, I find it a bit disturbing that some take this decision by Disney personally. Whatever personal circumstance that leads them to this emotional state, must be extremely greivious. I just wanted to express my sympathy in the matter.

This has been a great debate and I found my initial view has changed. That is what some of the best debates tend to do. :thumbsup:

TheVBs

09-16-2012, 08:28 AM

So, I have to say that we were really surprised by this news. From a traditionalist point of view, we're sort of disappointed, and we're people who enjoy the opportunity to have a nice wine or specialty beer with a fine meal. DH said that there's a wholesomeness (is that a word? :)) about MK and that this will erode that just a tiny bit. I would definitely agree with that if this ends up with drink kiosks all over the park. He said if he were given a vote, he'd vote no.

On the flipside... first of all I should say that we are thrilled with a new, better dining opportunity in MK! Like many others we usually head to other parks for our TS meals. So, YAY! And I think it's logical that wine and beer, particularly if it's suited to the regional food, be made available. We're going to enjoy the dining option either way. :mickey:

I think overall, the change is a surprise to most people and an unexpected reversal of what many consider to be a core tradition. That will get you mixed feelings (like mine) and big reactions. I really feel that this will be handled well and will not impact our trips at all. We've enjoyed all the other parks without ever experiencing any alcohol related problems. As to the extreme scenarios posted, you absolutely have my sympathies in regards to your family problems. Those always create sensitive feelings. Projecting that extreme onto the mainstream population is not realistic however.

In the meantime, Bon appetit! :mickey:

Terra

09-16-2012, 08:38 AM

All around this planet we call home, there are countless folks enjoy a drink without going overboard. I for one would not consider passing on travelling anywhere simply for the fact that they do or don't sell alcohol. I don't care one way or the other how one chooses enjoy their meal or experience, it is their choice after all. Who am I to tell someone what they should or shouldn't do.

Agreed!
And as far as religious reasons, well my undergrad degree is in theology and let's just say that wine was not taboo as some religious sects have made it out to be today.

And yes, there are many people who feel they must have a drink with dinner. Especially people from more European countries. It's like having a glass of water.

caryrae

09-16-2012, 10:37 AM

Does anyone know a good wine pairing with chicken fingers and fries?

seanyred

09-16-2012, 10:51 AM

Does anyone know a good wine pairing with chicken fingers and fries?

Two buck chuck....,

Seriously though i understand the traditionalist pov, but i don't think it is a big deal. As long as it stays limited to dinner only and never expands, daily guests will not even notice the change.

LAURA.WDWLOVER

09-16-2012, 10:56 AM

As had be stated on another post - will this "fine dining" menu succeed? The restaurant hasn't even opened yet and they are adding wine and beer to a menu that may fall flat on it's face. I believe the restaurant will be packed originally but will it succeed? Parents have already expressed their displeasure with the menu, now add wine/beer. This type of dining should have remained in Epcot.

MstngDrvnDsnyLvr

09-16-2012, 11:00 AM

Traditionalist point of view - wish they weren't.

But bear in mind we are talking a very select menu of beer and wine only available at dinner. This is not open market alcohol carts that are available in the other parks.

And also bear in mind, that it takes nothing at all to hop a monorail and go to any of the TS restaurants surrounded MK in the resorts and have a drink or 5 and then return to an evening at MK 'sloshed' without having done so IN the park.

If someone wants to drink to get drunk, they will do so and still go back to the parks to 'play'.

I do enjoy a glass or two of wine with my dinner. Did I do so on my most recent trip? Not with every meal, but I did have a glass of wine at an occasional meal, I had a 'signature cocktail' at 'Ohana and I had my Grey Goose Shushie in Epcot. Was I worried about not getting a drink at MK - that thought didn't cross my mind. I've just always thought of MK as "Dry" and don't mind it was so ever. Personally I prefer it that way, but only in the Traditional reasonings and not because children and alcohol don't mix.

I've personally never seen anyone completely blotzo at any of the 3 parks that serve alcohol. I have seen someone completely blotzo leaving 'Ohana and getting on the monorail back to the MK. Now, I have not been at WDW during the Food & Wine festival or during Canada Day, so I am sure that people do get beyond buzzed at the other 3 parks. I've just not seen that.

So, will this ruin the MK as so many people's tone seems to indicate - no, it will not. The question "What would Walt think?" Well, that's beside the point - he's dead and his vision is so far colluded. What it will do is provide a TS venue that more adults are libel to spend more money at by purchasing a beer or wine. Bottom line being bottom line.

stephicakes

09-16-2012, 11:23 AM

I personally understand both sides to the argument and have enjoyed reading the posts! I liked having MK as a “dry” park and loved the tradition of it being so. But as it has been mentioned, change does takes place over time and sometimes that change is hard to digest (no pun intended :rotfl:).

I know “1 bad apple can spoil the bunch” and I am sorry for those who have experienced others being drunk & unruly in WDW. That stinks and it is embarrassing to be around! And I am also so sad for those that have felt the effects of alcoholism firsthand. But please let’s not lump everyone into the same category – many people (myself included) enjoy a drink in the parks and do not become unruly or obnoxious. I look forward to the dining reviews of BOG and hope to dine there one day! :thumbsup:

Hopefully the posters who are very against drinking won’t stop going to WDW because of the decision of MK to serve alcohol as they have hinted. :( But kudos for standing by your convictions and not going. But a question… does your local supermarket sell beer and do you still choose to go there and spend money? Personally, I don’t eat meat but I won’t stop going to WDW just because a waiter offers me beef as the special of the day – I just politely smile and say “no thank you”. Does it put me off a little? Sure. But it definitely won’t ruin my day and I don’t take it as a personal offense. I know eating French fries and Mickey bars aren’t good for me either… but MODERATION is key. :pizza: Hopefully people can enjoy a glass or two of wine at BOG, not 5. I have a feeling CMs will be on the watch for people that have no self-control!

Valid concerns about children being exposed to the effects of alcohol. I know many people want WDW to be a “bubble” against unpleasant things that we encounter in our everyday lives, but unfortunately it’s not. We all have heard swear words in the parks and rude people arguing. Teachable moments. It will be the same when we encounter people in the parks that have had too much to drink. At least parents will be present to address these issues with their kids on the spot (unlike when they are exposed to bad things on the school bus!).

Can't wait to hear reviews on BOG!! :mickey:

As Forrest Gump stated... “That’s all I have to say about that”

steph :)

Jared

09-16-2012, 01:30 PM

Forget about the alcohol argument for a moment. It's incredibly disturbing that I am reading posts actually criticizing the addition of fine dining to the Magic Kingdom. It absolutely boggles my mind. It's pitiful, it's embarrassing and it's a sad statement about Walt Disney World fans in 2012.

Disneyland guests clearly have higher expectations about what a theme park could -- and should -- be. I wonder how many of you go out to California and complain about the Blue Bayou. Their kids menu consists of roasted beef strip with roasted potatoes, seared salmon, grilled chicken with pasta and some sort of mac and cheese dish. No chicken fingers. No pizza. No fries. And it has thrived for decades. Now the Magic Kingdom in Florida tries to emulate that sort of experience, and we're slamming Disney for it. Pathetic.

This, folks, is why we can't have nice things. Because apparently Walt Disney World guests don't want them.

LAURA.WDWLOVER

09-16-2012, 01:55 PM

When there are limited dining options, as in Disneyland, all types of restaurants will book. WDW has Epcot with 15 full service restaurants to choose from. Not to mention all of the other restaurants in the other parks and hotels. I don't think anyone is complaining about fine dining, just the appropriateness of the menu in an area of the park dedicated to mostly young children.

Jared

09-16-2012, 02:09 PM

Between Disneyland, California Adventure, the hotels and Downtown Disney, guests have California have access to, by my rough count, 21 full-service restaurant. They are all within a 10-minute walk of Sleeping Beauty Castle.

If you're standing at Cinderella Castle, you can realistically walk to eight table-service restaurants, including the three at the Contemporary.

I realize that you're a monorail ride (or rides) away from more restaurants, but I stand by my point. Which park has limited dining options? The Magic Kingdom.

DNS

09-16-2012, 02:12 PM

I personally think this is a fine idea. There is probably just a 50/50 chance of me having wine with my dinner, but I think it fits well with the restaurant. I would actually go one step farther and add wine to Tony's menu.

Quadstriker

09-16-2012, 02:39 PM

I realize that you're a monorail ride (or rides) away from more restaurants, but I stand by my point. Which park has limited dining options? The Magic Kingdom.

I like this Jared guy.

We never eat at MK if we can help it because the options have been quite poor for our tastes compared to elsewhere (until now).

People actually complaining that the menu isn't packed with chicken strips for their kids is just totally bizarre to me. (not calling out anyone in particular in this thread, but there were several people with that point of view in the other BoG thread in the dining forum). At last count there was precisely 21,209 places you can get that instead at WDW. Go to one of those. I'm wondering if it just might be a case of "Every single thing has to be exactly designed and catered to me or it's not acceptable."

There has been a dire need for a higher end restaurant in the Magic Kingdom, and this is going to fill that.

Be Our Guest is going to print money and be packed, ALL the time.

DizneyFreak2002

09-16-2012, 03:02 PM

The BOG menu has absolutely nothing wrong with it... Don't like the food offering, then you don't have to book there... No one is forcing anyone to... There are 300 places to eat in WDW, go to one of those places with generic menus...

I hope they never buckle and keep BOG as a fine dining restaurant...

Once again, Jared is the voice of reason.. :)

***we need LIKE buttons...

PirateLover

09-16-2012, 04:08 PM

You never know until you try it is the attitude everyone should have with their kids and foods. Please try to expand your child's palette. As a picky eater when I was a kid I did throw fits sometimes. Dinsey was great about it. I mentioned this on another thread. Granted, this was 1995, but when I ate a place that had nothing I liked or wanted, they brought me chicken fingers from next door. However, my pickiness was derived from my mom who doesn't like a lot of, shall I say, "Flavor." As an example, on one of my first dates with my husband back when I was 16 I LOVED the french fries. I asked him, "What spice did they put on this?" I'll never forget how he looked at me puzzled and said "Um, that's pepper..." Yes, my mom had never put pepper on anything! Over these last 10 years I've branched out and tried so many new things. Kids should not simply subsist on chicken fingers and cheeseburgers!

Dsnygirl

09-16-2012, 04:15 PM

***we need LIKE buttons...

lol, can't tell you how many times recently I have thought this around here. ;) Might create more issues than it is meant to, but I have to say, I've wanted it more than a few times!!

Jared

09-16-2012, 04:21 PM

As an example, on one of my first dates with my husband back when I was 16 I LOVED the french fries. I asked him, "What spice did they put on this?" I'll never forget how he looked at me puzzled and said "Um, that's pepper..."
And he still married you? ;)

Dsnygirl

09-16-2012, 04:43 PM

However, my pickiness was derived from my mom who doesn't like a lot of, shall I say, "Flavor." As an example, on one of my first dates with my husband back when I was 16 I LOVED the french fries. I asked him, "What spice did they put on this?" I'll never forget how he looked at me puzzled and said "Um, that's pepper..." Yes, my mom had never put pepper on anything!

Totally off topic, but I just had to comment... my mom was totally the same!! Salt was minimal, pepper even more so... not a single other spice in our house!! In MY house?? We have every spice out there... cumin, rosemary, TONS of garlic, cajun, tarragon, curry... you name it, I try it... and usually LOVE it!! And she somehow thinks that at 44, I'm still in a rebelious phase when I cook... ;) :crazy:

Jared

09-16-2012, 05:27 PM

caryrae

09-16-2012, 05:49 PM

TinkerbellT421

09-16-2012, 06:11 PM

Will this place have like a bar area where you can walk in and just get a glass of wine or a beer, or do you have to be seated at a table. I'm guessing it's not a place where someone can say, at the spur of the moment, I want a drink lets go to BOG?

According to my understanding, no you cannot just walkin and purchase an alcoholic beverage. No bar area either. You physically have to be seated for dinner (only) in order to purchase.

Tekneek

09-16-2012, 06:14 PM

DizneyFreak2002

09-16-2012, 06:26 PM

Isn't CRT still considered a "signature restaurant"? My understanding is that the "signature restaurants" (2 TS options) are more of a fine dining experience, than those that are just considered a 1TS. I may be wrong in this case, just wondering :shrug:

I thought 2 TS had more to do with demand than the quality of the experience. At least that was the impression I got from the way that change was implemented.

Tek, my understanding is the same as yours... 2TS is not so much quality but based on popularity/experience... CRT is extremely popular, so they put things in place to try to curb ADRs... And the same goes for Le Cellier... 2 TS due to popularity, not because that place is all about fine dining...

I'll consider BOG to be a fine dining experience that is, right now, 1 TS...

AgentC

09-16-2012, 08:29 PM

Tek, my understanding is the same as yours... 2TS is not so much quality but based on popularity/experience... CRT is extremely popular, so they put things in place to try to curb ADRs... And the same goes for Le Cellier... 2 TS due to popularity, not because that place is all about fine dining...

I'll consider BOG to be a fine dining experience that is, right now, 1 TS...

I would agree. I think the 2TS really has more to do with demand and price of the food than if it is a signature restaurant. Signatures tend to have entrees that cost more so it makes sense that they are 2TS. I checked the Disney website and list Le Cellier as a signature. CRT is not on the list.

And I'll have to go back and re read the dining thread. Perhaps I missed but I didn't think anyone was really upset with the BOG menu. Everyone has different taste and something different will appeal to different people. I can understand that someone would be disappointed if a new and highly hyped restaurant didn't serve what they like to eat.

I think the point on the children's menu is that is a hard menu for a picky eater. Believe me, no parent wants a picky eater. My children both went to a preschool that serves a healthy lunch. Both usually refused to eat it. Cali Grill, NarcoosseeCitricos and many other signatures do serve a version of macaroni and cheese. My point was that it would be nice for something to be offered for those children if their parents wanted to eat there. For me, I can just drive over and go without my kids (or the picky mom. :D ). But that is not an option for most.

I think it is a nice addition to MK and will be very successful. It just won't be everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay. :thumbsup:

Dsnygirl

09-16-2012, 08:42 PM

I think it is a nice addition to MK and will be very successful. It just won't be everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay. :thumbsup:

I think that point just about sums up the whole thing... I think we all would like everyone to think the way we do, it's just easier and friendlier that way... but the bottom line is, we're all going to have our own thoughts, and some of them will be different. And as long as we can respect that, it's all good! It is still Disney after all, is it not?? ;)

PirateLover

09-16-2012, 08:53 PM

And he still married you? ;)

:thumbsup: Yup! I think maybe he found it endearing? I was also a cutie ;) It's been really fun branching out together and trying new things over the years.

PirateLover

09-16-2012, 09:00 PM

Totally off topic, but I just had to comment... my mom was totally the same!! Salt was minimal, pepper even more so... not a single other spice in our house!! In MY house?? We have every spice out there... cumin, rosemary, TONS of garlic, cajun, tarragon, curry... you name it, I try it... and usually LOVE it!! And she somehow thinks that at 44, I'm still in a rebelious phase when I cook... ;) :crazy:

Not to get too off topic but yup, they'd be two peas in a pod. We had my parents over for dinner recently and cooked them grass feed organic steak with a side of green beans. She was eating it fine when my dad asked how my DH seasoned everything because it was so good, and he mentioned he used this basting oil, which has very few ingredients but one of them is garlic. Well, I knew that was it. She got a look on her face and say "I knew it had garlic!" :rolleyes: I love my mama to death but I can tell you, when I (hopefully) have my own kids, we will not be having pasta monday, chicken cutlet tuesday, veal cutlet wednesday, and hot dog thursday. Pizza friday will stick around because DH and I have continued that one :D

HackLaSalle

09-17-2012, 01:10 AM

Sooo after saying previously I don't think it's that big of a deal, apparently it is to a lot of people. And I even cringed a little at the thought of expanding it.

I completely support the decision at Be Our Guest but I can see the slippery slope argument. Maybe they'll run it as a test, maybe a lot of people won't order it with their meal, maybe it's gone a week after opening. Who knows... but I'd hate to see MK become a place where booze is readily available. Not because of drunkards, not because of any belief but because I thought it made it quaint and special to not have it there. When it's at one place I think it elevates that place to make IT even more special. When it's everywhere it's just kinda blah in my opinion.

And for the earlier Shot Glass conversation. As a collector of shot glasses I can vouch they were around in the 90s as I had friends who brought them back for me. HOWEVER, if you look on your receipts nowadays they are TOOTH PICK HOLDERS. And Disney used to sell an official Mickey Ears bottle opener. They do not any more but you can still get a knock off.

disneynarula

09-17-2012, 05:38 AM

I have never understood where being "treated as an adult" and being able to buy beer and wine relates? Especially if the whole point of the Magic Kingdom is to recapture your childhood.

If I recall there were quite a few people here chomping at the bit to get ADRs here even before they announced the sale of wine and beer.I can't imagine they will have a hard time filling tables even without this addition.

CRT is popular and they don't see beer or wine (yet). We have never eaten there but from what I read this TS eatery sells it's tables based on theming and not food quality.

I don't think this is going to cause problems like Drink Around The World at Epcot:sick:. I just thought it was a matter of principle thing that Disney did not sell alcohol in the Magic Kingdom. Now they see an opportunity to make money without having to invest in something that really improves a guest's experience.

I can see this creeping into other venues of the park now too. Once you go against a principle there is no going back.

If you really are against the wine and beer issue then cancel you ADRs and let them know why. Otherwise you are complaining for nothing. We won't eat here now!

MstngDrvnDsnyLvr

09-17-2012, 09:14 AM

And Disney used to sell an official Mickey Ears bottle opener. They do not any more but you can still get a knock off.
So not true!!! JUST got one (HEAVY shiny silver colored) for one of my twin sons for opening beers back during my trip in June.

Melanie

09-17-2012, 09:16 AM

So not true!!! JUST got one (HEAVY shiny silver colored) for one of my twin sons for opening beers back during my trip in June.

True. There are many Mickey/Disney bottle openers around the Resort for sale. Also, many wine bottle stoppers, etc.

Mickey'sGirl

09-17-2012, 09:30 AM

I have never understood where being "treated as an adult" and being able to buy beer and wine relates? Especially if the whole point of the Magic Kingdom is to recapture your childhood. I think that the whole "treated as an adult" thing is about being given the choice ... and even then, you have to be an adult over the age of 21. As an adult I am able to do this, but being treated as one means that I can choose whether I want to have a drink or not.

I agree with your comment about going against your principles. Once you do, it becomes a snowball!

ValenciaCalling

09-17-2012, 10:18 AM

laprana

09-17-2012, 10:49 AM

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the change. On one hand, I feel kind of sad to see the tradition change after so long and knowing that Walt wanted it to be a dry park. I know change is inevitable, but it somehow feels like MK is losing one more thing that Walt directly had a hand in. :(

But on the other hand, it really doesn't affect me too much. I don't drink at all, so the availability of alcohol in the restaurants or parks makes no difference to me because I won't be ordering it anyway. I do hope, though, that this isn't the start of something bigger in MK, like beer/wine kiosks throughout the park. I know the other parks have them...to me, those just don't belong in MK. This was all over the news this weekend, from my local stations to MSNBC!

Dulcee

09-17-2012, 10:55 AM

One of the reasons we didn't attempt BOG reservations was I assumed they wouldn't have a beer/wine list.

When on vacation I want a glass of wine with dinner.

I personally think this a change long overdue.

Tigerinvestigator

09-17-2012, 11:22 AM

I was also wrong... My bad... Club 33 opened after Walt died...

But, regardless of that, alcohol is still served inside the park, in a high class restaurant.. While BOG won't be private or exclusive, it is being marketed as a higher class dining experience... Plus, wine and beer only will be served and only during dinner... It isn't like beer carts are popping up all over the park...

I have a serious question for everyone: Would your day at MK (or vacation even ) be ruined because wine and beer are being served in a place you may or may not dine in, providing you with a choice to order or not???

My problem is not that they will have a closed environment to serve alcoholic beverages, my problem is that you and everyone else know exactly what this means. Disney is dollar driven now and does anyone actually believe it will only be served at one location in the future? It will be served all over the MK in the near future. WHY? Because they have set precedent. I've been in law enforcement for twenty years and deal with alcohol related incidents multiple times per week. I would just prefer to not have to worry about that when I take my kids and one day grandkids to the MK. Is that too much to ask? Should I have to be worried about something that COULD potentially ruin my vacation because someone does something stupid.....and they will. If one person has their vacation messed up because the MK decides to allow alcoholic beverages in, then in my opinion it was not worth all the profits they will make. Just my opinion and it may not be popular, but I spend enough time as a dad watching out for drunks in World Showcase and DTD at night who bump into my kids or use profanity I would prefer they not hear on vacation. Just really really bad decisions on Disney's part. Maybe not so much with this one restaurant but just doing away with the ban in general!:ill:

CajunDisneyDad

09-17-2012, 12:37 PM

Wine/Beer with dinner is fine.:beer:

Wine/Beer stands throughout the park is not fine. I definitely do not want that to start.

I just hope this isnt a slippery slope. I have no issue with wine with a meal, heck doesnt that ultra secret dinning club in MK at DL serve wine? Where I have an issue is when you have these drunken bafoons like you see in Epcot the later it gets. I know when I used to work in a casino, we were told that if a guest is appearing intoxicated, you cut them off... of course that doesnt stop him from going to a nother server, but that server should see the signs too and cut him or her off...

Ok sorry for the rant... I am ok with it as long as it just stays in BOG...

BrerGnat

09-17-2012, 12:47 PM

#1donaldfan

09-17-2012, 01:21 PM

I have only skimmed through these posts, so if what I am to say has been said, oh well !!

The debate is whether or not have alcohol at the MK, right? There are many for it and many against it. For those of you for it, why ?? What purpose does alcohol being offered at one place in the MK, a park dedicated to the young and young at heart ?? Dinner can certainly be just as enjoyable without the alcohol. Does alcohol have to be introduced into every venue?? NO. There is no good reason for it in being offered. NONE. For those of us against it, for whatever reasonings you have, you can bet that down the road, there will be additional offerings. Why, Tortuga is a pirates strong hold, beer drinking, carousing, and untold mischief, why shouldn't they have beer too, as depicted on the movie. Double standards are standard now days. Before you say it, why not be able to belly up and get our burger and beer there, as well as sitting down having duck and wine at BOG ??? No continuity, double standards, no real debate actually. :cool:

Tigerinvestigator

09-17-2012, 01:22 PM

You know what I haven't heard anyone mention?

The FACT that the availability of wine and beer at THIS particular restaurant is a THEMATICAL thing. Can't anyone else appreciate the fact that, perhaps, it was the Chef(s) who were given the task to make an "authentic" French restaurant, and part of that authenticity would be to offer wine, at least, with dinner?

Can't we maybe see this as Disney going in the direction of offering immersively themed, AUTHENTIC experiences throughout the new Fantasyland area? Is this such a bad thing?

And yeah, it's all about the money. It always has been, always will be. Don't we want Disney to make huge profits? Isn't that how we get more investment into the parks?

Just saying...

If we want authentic themed French restaurants we go to World Showcase. Fantasyland is just that a fantasy. IMHO it's not the place for authenticity as much as a view of the world as it could/should be. Just don't think that argument holds up. Again just my opinion but as I stated before they have now set precendent and it is only a matter of time until like Sharkbait mentions, we see beer and wine carts around the MK because of the profit. I agree with CajunDisneyDad that this is a slippery slope. Also don't buy the argument that it doesn't matter because you can get drunk at the resorts and then go to MK. Those people still have to pass through security which at least gives hope they would be detained. I am more worried about the guy who starts drinking at 11am and stays for EMH being sloshed by the time the park closes. You know the guy who doesn't really want to be there anyway but thinks its hilarious to get drunk in the MK. Can he do that at the new restaurant? Probably not but he will when they start selling it everywhere. lol:thumbsup:

TinkerbellT421

09-17-2012, 01:31 PM

Brer_Fox

09-17-2012, 01:37 PM

Reading all of the thoughts so far it seems like the real issue at hand is "FEAR". Fear of the unknown based off of prior experiences.

Almost seems like because there is alcohol in the MK now we can expect the same things to happen at the F&WF to happen or to see drunk people running around. Assuming this or speculating that something will happen doesn't necessary mean it will. Cant tell you how many times I assumed something only for the opposite to be true.

I agree that this is Disney trying to make money. But I am sure this was not something that they just decided to to out of the blue. This topic had to be discussed fully before they made the decision. The decision that was made was also in a way smart being that you have to sit down and order dinner, no bar, no just walking up and asking for a beer. Alcohol is only offered at dinner. It seems that Disney was concerned about the thoughts about this and the implemented a way to try and control their decision as best as possible.

And what about people who get drunk before they enter MK? BoG shouldnt be held responsible for that, should they?

How do we know people arent showing up to the parks stoned out of there mind? We don't, to me that scares me more then BoG selling alcohol because this is the unknown.

Touching on traditions and principles again, Walt was a pioneer in everything he did. He was always ahead almost like he knew something was going to happen before it did. That was what mad Walt great. He knew when there was a need for change and that change was always for the better. Would Walt have changed his initial ideas to embrace something like this? I cant answer that question but from I know of Walt change was good and I believe that he would have allowed it for the better.

Goofster

09-17-2012, 02:00 PM

I don't see a problem with it as long as it's limited to BOG. It's not like it's a beer tent with a keg in the middle of it.

Brer_Fox

09-17-2012, 03:21 PM

I agree that this could "POTENTIALLY" open the door for other restaurants at MK. I do believe that they are going to see how the public takes to this and then decide if they want to expand it to other restaurants.

Disney could always decided not to sell alcohol at BoG in the future. Thats a possibility too.

What Disney needs to do, is instruct there CM's to call security when they encounter drunk people, disorderly people, etc to have them removed form the park. This is a solution to the issue.

ChipNDale79

09-17-2012, 03:41 PM

Does alcohol have to be introduced into every venue?? NO. There is no good reason for it in being offered. NONE.

Actually there is a good reason, it's your opinion that there is no good reason, but food and wine/beer actually can be and will be paired to enhance the flavor of both the food and the drink. To some people this is a big part of eating at a place like this.

My DW and I both love the dining options that WDW offers, we love to try different things and sitting down around the table with loved ones and just relaxing for an hour or so. It's an experience in itself.

We don't typically order wine with our food, unless it's a special occasion or if we just really really want it. So we probably won't at BOG, but I think i should have the option, and yes we have kids.

We honeymooned at WDW, we arrived on a Sunday and decided we wanted to do a signature meal for our first meal together as a married couple. So we chose to eat at the Yachtsman, our steaks were paired with wine, the steak enhanced the wine and the wine enhanced the meat. This meal was amazing, and quite honestly I do believe the wine played a part in that.

So if people want to order wine or beer with their dinner (btw, we aren't talking about a Miller or a Bud), chances are it is NOT going to effect you. Will there be the occasional person that has too much? Maybe, but the chances are A LOT slimmer than they are at anywhere else on WDW property. The environment will be extremely controlled and I've got a feeling they aren't going to allow someone to have too much to drink.

To me the MK lacks quality sit down restaurants, it appears that not allowing alcohol in the parks might be a reason, if it is, then I've got no problem with this as long as more options for dinning are added to MK. I'm not talking about another burger place either.

I get the feeling that most of you believe that you are going to see a bunch of drunk people walking around MK like you would at a club, that's not going to happen. I would bet that just about any place you went for dinner sells alcohol, this is nothing new really.

JerseyDad

09-17-2012, 04:31 PM

.....I've seen more than a handful of people "get their buzz on" in either their resort of another park before heading to the MK ....so I don't think the MK being completely "dry" was keeping "recreational drinkers" from being there.

...that said...I just had the opportunity to look at the sample menu's. Who in the world is this restaurant for? I think it's for the adults...personally. Some of the food looks very interesting ....but I'd be hard pressed to believe most kids will look that that menu at jump for joy.

....I think they needed alcohol on the menu for the parents to be able to deal with their kids after they say "I don't want to eat THAT" and they have laid out a nice sized chunk of change for the experience!!

....and look...the bottom line..IS the bottom line!! If the sale of alcohol at BOG proves to be a money maker ....then expect the trend to expand to other MK eateries.

Disney Doll

09-17-2012, 05:32 PM

Finally read through all the posts, whew!

My initial thought before reading any of the opinions was, meh no big deal. I don't understand why MK is the sacred cow when you can drink everywhere else on property.

After reading the comments I am struck by how many people are making assumptions. It went from a limited offering with dinner to MK being painted as some sort of beer fest. Will this open the door for more venues in MK? Maybe. If it does will my vacation be ruined? Nope. In all my time at WDW I've only experienced obnoxiously drunk guests at EPCOT FWF and even then only a couple of times over multiple trips/days. Outside of festival times I've never noticed inappropriate behavior attributed to alcohol. I would expect the same if alcohol service becomes the norm at MK.

I don't like beer or wine so this really affects me not at all. However, I do enjoy a mango margarita every time I'm in EPCOT and (gasp) I drink it with my kids around. Honestly I would prefer my kids to experience an example of responsible consumption rather than have alcohol painted as some sort of illicit substance which we teach them nothing about.

figgie

09-17-2012, 05:47 PM

Wow, so many views on this subject. I've read every one and my opinion keeps fluctuating as I read and concider each one. So far, well, yes, Disney wants to make more money and alcohol might just help them do that. It might surprise many to know that the cruiselines profit extensively from the alcohol they sell onboard, and, yes, that includes the Disney cruiseline. I really want WDW to make as much money as they can. The Florida economy needs it, it's been rough around here. More jobs, more visitors, more income, yes, all needed.

Fine dinning in MK, yes, that is needed also. We are people who, when looking for a fine dinning experience, never look at MK as a destination. It would be nice to be able to spend the day there and not leave to find good food. We also enjoy a nice glass of wine with dinner.

Have we run into people who have had too much to drink? Yes, Yes and YES! Local traditions now include, along with the bridal parties of the many weddings held on property every day, bachelor and batchelorette parties held at EPCOT just for the "Drink your way around the World" oportunities provided. Many people take in too much alcohol and show it as well. But I've also seen many people acting crazy who have not been drinking, between large "tour" groups, school groups and other, well, just crazy people, it happens. We try to turn these incidents around if kids in our group notice and say anything. It will then become a learning time where we ask them how they feel when they see people act like this or conversations like that.

Alcohol at MK? I really didn't think it would ever happen so I'm not sure how I feel about it. Wine with fine dinning, yes. Will it lead to more, possibly. Out of context at MK, got to say yes. For or against it...on the fence still...:confused: