Monorails to Become Automated

[DizneyFreak2002]

WDW Transportation is currently working on a plan to implement a new system where the monorails will be automated and run by a computer monitoring system... Samuel Lau is the the VP of WDW Transportation... He says this new system will be able to run the monorails more efficient, thus keeping the monorails running... He says that right now, when a train needs to switch beams, the other monorails have to stop, thus causing a slight delay in transporting guests... With the new system, Lau says they will be able to switch without any of the monorails having to come to a complete stop... The new system will take about 2 maybe 2 and a half years to be up and running...

The pilots won't be going away, however, as of now, they still do not have plans to allow guests back into the front cab with the monorail pilot...

I wonder though, will they upgrade the monorail fleet to new monorails with this automated technology, or just use the same monorails and retrofit them with the technology???

***Thanks to Orlando Attractions Magazine for the information...

[seanyred]

This sounds cool but I hope they get new trains. The current ones are just getting too old. system retro fitting a new system onto a old system doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[Mousemates]

sounds cool...I just hope the efficiency increase will result in enough saving to run them an extra hour a night.

[darthmacho]

If it's automated, what are the pilots for? In any case, I hope they get to keep their jobs somehow. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the title, that people were going to lose jobs as a result, and an awesome one at that. Automation might make life simpler, but it's sad when you start to wonder how people can make a living anymore. :(

[DizneyFreak2002]

If it's automated, what are the pilots for? In any case, I hope they get to keep their jobs somehow. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the title, that people were going to lose jobs as a result, and an awesome one at that. Automation might make life simpler, but it's sad when you start to wonder how people can make a living anymore. :(

The pilots would be for the spiels and other functions... And I thought the same thing as you when I first saw the article on OAM's site... But they state no pilot would lose their job and would still man the front cab...

[Dsnygirl]

Wow, I think that's a great idea... I hope it comes to fruition! :thumbsup:


The pilots would be for the spiels and other functions... And I thought the same thing as you when I first saw the article on OAM's site... But they state no pilot would lose their job and would still man the front cab...

And I like this part of it best... it keeps some personalization to the monorail trains, I don't think they'd want the trains to seem completely automated. And I'm glad to hear it would allow guests to ride up front again... we had that experience once with our girls, and it was really special. :cloud9:

[Melanie]

And I'm glad to hear it would allow guests to ride up front again... we had that experience once with our girls, and it was really special. :cloud9:

I had to reread that as well Blythe, but it says no plans at this time to allow guests back up front. :(


The pilots won't be going away, however, as of now, they still do not have plans to allow guests back into the front cab with the monorail pilot...

[Roger's #1 Fan]

I would think from a safety persepctive they need the operators there in case there is a malfunction or other issue which might need to be addressed (something on the rail) that an automated system could not handle.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Wow, I think that's a great idea... I hope it comes to fruition! :thumbsup:



And I like this part of it best... it keeps some personalization to the monorail trains, I don't think they'd want the trains to seem completely automated. And I'm glad to hear it would allow guests to ride up front again... we had that experience once with our girls, and it was really special. :cloud9:

No, guests will still not be allowed up front again...

I can see it from the safety point... Plus, it no guests would let the pilots to monitor beam traffic that the automated system may fail to detect... Remember this would be run on computers, and we all know how unreliable they can be sometimes... If the computer crashes, then the pilots need to take over...

[Dsnygirl]

No, guests will still not be allowed up front again...

I can see it from the safety point... Plus, it no guests would let the pilots to monitor beam traffic that the automated system may fail to detect... Remember this would be run on computers, and we all know how unreliable they can be sometimes... If the computer crashes, then the pilots need to take over...

Ooops, read your post wrong... thought you said they would... wishful thinking! :blush: Understandable, after what happened, but still... :(

[faline]

I read that article this morning as well. They were pretty clear that there were no plans to allows guests to return to the cockpit.

The article also indicated that a third bus station loop would be added to the Magic Kingdom. The article seemed to indicate that guests would be able to choose any of the 3 loops to get a bus back to their resort. Loop A to Old Key West too full - try the Old Key West stop in Loop B - at least that's the way I read the article. It also spoke to needing to make room for busses with larger capacity such as the hinged busses they tested earlier.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I read that article this morning as well. They were pretty clear that there were no plans to allows guests to return to the cockpit.

The article also indicated that a third bus station loop would be added to the Magic Kingdom. The article seemed to indicate that guests would be able to choose any of the 3 loops to get a bus back to their resort. Loop A to Old Key West too full - try the Old Key West stop in Loop B - at least that's the way I read the article. It also spoke to needing to make room for busses with larger capacity such as the hinged busses they tested earlier.

I was trying to make out the bus loop portion of the article... I came to the same conclusion you did, cause that is how it sounds... Weren't they already working on a new bus stop station for MK???

[faline]

I don't remember any construction going on during my last trip. I'm trying to figure out where they would put a third loop?

[DizneyFreak2002]

I don't remember any construction going on during my last trip. I'm trying to figure out where they would put a third loop?

I swore I read they were doing some sort of bus stop construction... I'll have to check out Google Maps/Earth to see where they could possibly add a third bus stop...

EDIT: Ok, looking at Google Maps, there actually seems to be plenty of space for more than one more bus loop if they desire... They have space next to the smaller canopy, on the other side of the monorail, but this one may be tricky due to the monorail pylons.. The more reasonable area would be next to the longer bus canopy... There appears to be a large empty plot of land with not even a tree on it... Build the third loop there, just been to add in an entrance/exit road, which wouldn't be too hard to do...

[Aurora]

I admit that I'm completely stupid when it comes to the operations of these things, but I'm very confused about something:

When the system becomes automated, why wouldn't the other monorails need to stop completely when one is switching beams? Are they saying they trust technology more than humans to alert them to a problem, so the other monorails could be moving unless there is a problem? Why exactly is this more efficient? :confused:

[Polynesian Dweller]

The pilots would be for the spiels and other functions... And I thought the same thing as you when I first saw the article on OAM's site... But they state no pilot would lose their job and would still man the front cab...

The pilots also have to start the trains, the automation takes over after the train starts moving. No way for the automated system to know that loading is complete, so it has to be cued to operate the train via pilot action.

[DizneyFreak2002]

The pilots also have to start the trains, the automation takes over after the train starts moving. No way for the automated system to know that loading is complete, so it has to be cued to operate the train via pilot action.

Good call!!!! Didn't think about the loading...

[dpamac]

I don't like it. This is what Skynet First the computers will take our monorails then they will take our freedom. It's the first salvo in the war between man and machine. :scared:

[Goofy4TheWorld]

I admit that I'm completely stupid when it comes to the operations of these things, but I'm very confused about something:

When the system becomes automated, why wouldn't the other monorails need to stop completely when one is switching beams? Are they saying they trust technology more than humans to alert them to a problem, so the other monorails could be moving unless there is a problem? Why exactly is this more efficient? :confused:

Well, two reasons: First, the Monorail crash was caused by a employee going home early, then a supervisor filling in for him left his post for lunch, and then when the forward Monorail operator asked "is the switch moved?" (because the Monorail operator can not visually see the switch from the cab of the Monorail ) someone (can't remember who) said "yep, its switched" but it turned out it was not switched and resulted in a collision. Reason two: The current safety system in place to warn of Monorails getting too close together must, BY DESIGN, be bypassed in order for a Monorail to travel in reverse (which is necessary to switch tracks) so while there is a system to prevent rear end collisions, backing into another train is entirely possible even today.

So between the many chances for human error in track switching, and the poor design of the alarm system having to be bypassed to travel in reverse, I think they always stop all the trains just in case a failure occurs in the many points of weakness in the process of switching tracks. I think the idea of computers controlling and checking the movement of Monorails (just like every roller coaster in the world) is far safer than what they have now.

Becasue I typed in a hurry, I am sure some of the fine details of my post are a little off, but I think it covers the general idea.

[BrerGnat]

There are lots of monorail type systems that are mostly automated these days. Many airports that use a train or rail to transport passengers between terminals are fully automated. The thing is, you only have 30 seconds or so to load/unload and the doors shut and the train gets moving. I can see this being a problem at WDW, so there will still be pilots needed to control guest flow. On the other hand, if the trains ran on a really tight schedule, and you knew you'd only have a minute or so to load before the train left the station, BUT there would be another train in, say 3 minutes, it would make the whole system more efficient. They could run more trains on the line at the same time this way.

[Aurora]

Well, two reasons: First, the Monorail crash was caused by a employee going home early, then a supervisor filling in for him left his post for lunch, and then when the forward Monorail operator asked "is the switch moved?" (because the Monorail operator can not visually see the switch from the cab of the Monorail ) someone (can't remember who) said "yep, its switched" but it turned out it was not switched and resulted in a collision. Reason two: The current safety system in place to warn of Monorails getting too close together must, BY DESIGN, be bypassed in order for a Monorail to travel in reverse (which is necessary to switch tracks) so while there is a system to prevent rear end collisions, backing into another train is entirely possible even today.

So between the many chances for human error in track switching, and the poor design of the alarm system having to be bypassed to travel in reverse, I think they always stop all the trains just in case a failure occurs in the many points of weakness in the process of switching tracks. I think the idea of computers controlling and checking the movement of Monorails (just like every roller coaster in the world) is far safer than what they have now.

Becasue I typed in a hurry, I am sure some of the fine details of my post are a little off, but I think it covers the general idea.


There are lots of monorail type systems that are mostly automated these days. Many airports that use a train or rail to transport passengers between terminals are fully automated. The thing is, you only have 30 seconds or so to load/unload and the doors shut and the train gets moving. I can see this being a problem at WDW, so there will still be pilots needed to control guest flow. On the other hand, if the trains ran on a really tight schedule, and you knew you'd only have a minute or so to load before the train left the station, BUT there would be another train in, say 3 minutes, it would make the whole system more efficient. They could run more trains on the line at the same time this way.

Thanks Goofy and Natalie. I read the details of what happened during the accident, and after learning about standard procedures, I couldn't help thinking that it was a miracle an accident hadn't happened before that, what with pilots at the opposite end of the train not being able to see where they were going.

The combination of automation and pilots sounds so complicated, but I'm not knocking it at all. I hope this system is not only more efficient, but safer for everyone.

[Goofy4TheWorld]

...and after learning about standard procedures, I couldn't help thinking that it was a miracle an accident hadn't happened before that...

My first thought as well, I was shocked that this was the first failure of such a terrible safety system.

[faline]

The thing is, you only have 30 seconds or so to load/unload and the doors shut and the train gets moving. I can see this being a problem at WDW, so there will still be pilots needed to control guest flow. On the other hand, if the trains ran on a really tight schedule, and you knew you'd only have a minute or so to load before the train left the station, BUT there would be another train in, say 3 minutes, it would make the whole system more efficient. They could run more trains on the line at the same time this way.

How would this work for folks with mobility issues or those traveling in wheelchairs?

[Kairi_7378]

There have been a lot of improvements in train control technology in the past 40 years, and I am happy that there will be some improvements in WDW. It can not only improve operational efficiency, but it will make the overall system safer.

I am glad that the operators/ pilots will remain on the monorail and at the stations. I know that automated monorails are in use in large cities for public transportation. However, with the amount of transit "newbies" at WDW, in addition to more people with strollers, wheelchairs, and mobility issues, I think that the staffing is warranted.

[BrerGnat]

How would this work for folks with mobility issues or those traveling in wheelchairs?

This is why they still need pilots at WDW, even if the system is automated. I assume WDW would implement a system whereby a CM has the ability to allow extra boarding time if needed or manually get the train going (with a key, a button press, whatever), but once out of the station, the speed of the train, starts and stops, etc. will be automated and controlled based on where the other trains are on the tracks.

But, I have to wonder, how does it work in airports with people with disabilities? My guess is that people with disabilities are able to negotiate these trains just as everyone else does.

WDW would maybe need to modify a couple queue sections at each monorail station by retrofitting them with ramps. Then, people in wheelchairs, ECV's, etc. can be directed to line up at those sections for easy on/easy off. Not really sure why Disney hasn't already done this. Seems easy enough to simply raise the level of the platform so that it is flush with the monorail cab floor.

[Polynesian Dweller]

There are lots of monorail type systems that are mostly automated these days. Many airports that use a train or rail to transport passengers between terminals are fully automated. The thing is, you only have 30 seconds or so to load/unload and the doors shut and the train gets moving. I can see this being a problem at WDW, so there will still be pilots needed to control guest flow. On the other hand, if the trains ran on a really tight schedule, and you knew you'd only have a minute or so to load before the train left the station, BUT there would be another train in, say 3 minutes, it would make the whole system more efficient. They could run more trains on the line at the same time this way.
Yes there are automated systems but in Disney's case they have already stated the pilot in the cab will have to initiate the train movement

[Hammer]

But, I have to wonder, how does it work in airports with people with disabilities? My guess is that people with disabilities are able to negotiate these trains just as everyone else does.


I can answer that question, as my mother travels and must use a wheelchair. There is a person stationed at the loading platform, and I would gather can override the system. As my Mom now travels alone, there is an attendant there who takes her through to baggage claim where a family member or car service will pick her up. The gate attendants know how much time they have and know to position themselves so the person in the wheelchair is among one of the first to board/disembark the train.

[Ian]

There are lots of monorail type systems that are mostly automated these days.Including one we're probably all pretty familiar with ... the one at MCO!

[ryca1dreams]

I don't like it. This is what Skynet First the computers will take our monorails then they will take our freedom. It's the first salvo in the war between man and machine. :scared:

That's why we have the WOPR - to plan for these contingencies. And that would never fail.

[Roger's #1 Fan]

That's why we have the WOPR - to plan for these contingencies. And that would never fail.

Would you like to play a game? ;)

[Mousemates]

Would you like to play a game? ;)

of course not...."the only winning move is not to play."