Say goodbye to FastPass as we know it. :-(

[Buttercup]

So you could call this a rumor, but I have heard some information recently (from someone within Imagineering) that regular Fastpass is going to be gone soon. I know we've discussed the Next Gen/X-Pass thing a lot, but we were never sure if it would be something new, in addition to the current Fastpass system... or if it would be a complete replacement of the current Fastpass system. Sounds like it's the latter.

Here's what I've learned:
- The average guest uses between 1-2 fastpasses per day at the parks. Most people collect more than that, but never use them, or they lose them.
- Because of this, Fastpass is becoming a reservation-only service, being called Fastpass+. They don't feel that enough guests will be upset by this, because again, the average guest only uses one a day. In her words, "it's not a big enough dent in the system", so "day-of fastpasses will become a thing of the past."
- You can see evidence of this in that the kiosks for the Next-Gen/X-Pass/Fastpass+ are temporary plugins and aren't needed for very long. As well, there are no Fastpass kiosks slated for the Fantasyland expansion.
- She tells me that all current Fastpass kiosks are slated to be removed.

Take it with a grain of salt, but it's what I've heard!

Some other things she mentioned:

Basically, the system breaks down like this: Fastpass was/is broken because a minority of people were exploiting the system. Who were those people? They were the FP super-users on the high end of the spectrum. They would send out "runners", collect FP tickets en mass, and return well past their posted windows. They would send out "runners", collect FP tickets en mass, and return well past their posted windows. FP+ is designed to appeal to these people who can plan in advance and be secured a spot while making sure they don't break the system. It has also been expanded to other attractions on a sliding scale of investment. Spend more money, get more fastpasses. The big ticket spenders will get more passes. Value Resorts? Not so many. So to the generic guest, this is no change, and there's also no more visible infrastructure outside every attraction. The FP signage and machines and all that caused far more confusion than they were worth. So, yes, if you're an AP holder or whatever, the system changing basically isn't aimed at you. The good news is that the system popping up at other attractions, like Mansion, should have next to zero effect on standby. And at those attractions where the line gets clogged, its usually because of the super users exploiting the system. So let's take a collective deep breath about the FP+ system. It will be an improvement. NextGen itself is going to be a huge fiasco but some of it will be stuff that needed to happen.

[chrim]

Some other things she mentioned:
NextGen itself is going to be a huge fiasco but some of it will be stuff that needed to happen.


There are some interesting points in there, but you ended with a comment that "NextGen itself is going to be a huge fiasco." It's a cliffhanger. What are the concerns there?

[disneynarula]

I recenlty read a speculative article on this new system. From my reading I got the impression that you will get more "Fastpasses" based on how far out you book your trip.

The article I read also said they will take into account DVC members and annual passholders but not Disney Cast Members and those using their guest tickets.

I really don't think this is going to be the end of the world. It's not going to stop you from using the standby line if you want to be spontaneos. Even using the current FP system requires some planning. I think I will wait and pass judgement until after the system is in place and running instead of getting myself all in a dither over something that I am unsure of.

[TinkerbellT421]

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

Out of curiosity the area which you quoted, was that what your source was saying? I found one sentence funny I don't know if I am alone in this but if your source said this:

They would send out "runners", collect FP tickets en mass, and return well past their posted windows.

I find that funny, because I ultimately blame Disney for that. When FP were originally designed with the return window it was pretty clear that if your ticket stated return between 3 - 4pm then you would need to return between 3 - 4. It is ultimately Disney's fault that they ALLOWED these "runners" and the like to return hours later. It should have been clear from the beginning between Disney and the CM's that anyway past x-time should not be allowed on the ride, I mean heck the back of the tickets clearly states these rules. But when these "runners" people found out that they were ALLOWED to do so by pretty much every CM at every ride then that alllowed the system to be abused. But that's my own two cents. lol

[potzie]

I guess for me the concern is for those like myself who own a timeshare off Disney property or stay at other off property resorts. I visit usually twice a year and spend 4-5 days at the parks for each visit as well as dining in the parks and a couple of non-park character restaurants, but none of this will get me access to Fastpasses under the new Fastpass+ system. If they take the machines out of the park and I have to ride standby for everything I think I will stop going.

I recently did a 1 day course through the Disney Institute where the instructors mentioned that the average park guest is worth $62K in lifetime revenue, I know that some will be more and some will be less, but that would seem like enough to keep most companies happy.

[BrerGnat]

I have a REALLY hard time believing that Disney will revert to a Fastpass system that is ONLY for onsite guests.

They have said over and over again that "Fastpass will always be free" as well as available to ALL guests.

I have no problem with this new Fastpass Plus (or whatever) system where you make reservations in advance being restricted to onsite guests, but for them to just up and remove a system that has been around and successful for over a decade...I don't think so.

As for the "there are no fastpass kiosks in the Fantasyland expansion" line, so what? Who's to say that those rides will even OFFER Fastpass? Little Mermaid at DCA does not have Fastpass. Dumbo never has. Ditto Barnstormer. They may decide to make NONE of the Fantasyland expansion attractions FP attractions. Means nothing. Or maybe these will have only the new FP+, and not traditional FP. Who knows?

[JPL]

I guess for me the concern is for those like myself who own a timeshare off Disney property or stay at other off property resorts.

Not to offend anyone who stays off property but you are not the type of guests Disney is really hoping for.

This is the ideal Disney Guest they are looking for


Takes Magical Express to and from Resort
Purchases a Park Hopper Ticket & Dining Plan
3 Stays at a Disney Resort (preferably at Deluxe)
4. Spends all their vacation money on property


Universal offers extra perks to their resort guests and Sea World is also starting to do the same thing. Disney started it with E-Ride Nights and now EMHs. This is just the next logical step. It all comes down to a competition for the tourist money.

[ChipNDale79]

Disney really needs to release some news on the system, they are losing the PR battle big time.

I've said it a million times, if I have to reserve a fast pass months in advance, then I'll take my kids once every 3 to 4 years instead of every year.

I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Disney Doll]

I am fine scheduling in advance. I'm not sure if we would actually do that, but we don't use fp a lot now anyway. However, I don't like the idea that it could be tied to your level of accommodations. Part of the magic at Disney is an escape from everyday realities. A lot of things in life aren't fair leading to many reasons why some people may be able to afford more expensive accommodations, but a line is the great equalizer. There has been a lot of research on the psychology of lines and people are most satisfied when they feel things are fair. I would benefit if people at deluxe resorts got more fastpasses, but I don't think it's fair. I also don't like the profit aspect of Disney as a business being so obvious in the parks. I know Disney is a business and I know the function of any business is to be as profitable as possible, but I don't want to be confronted by that while I'm on vacation. To me that's one of the things that cheapens the experience at Universal and I don't want Disney to become that. :(

[shadowden]

I have to wonder. For all the people who say they will stop / reduce the amount of time they spend in Disney b/c they can't get a few FPs... makes me wonder if they are truly Disney fans?

Said differently, seems that they are not the demographic Disney is going after b/c they have very little loyalty to the brand...

[PlutoToo]

Am I missing something? It sounds to me like you need internet access and computer literacy to use this new system If so, Disney risks alienating the people who are neither. I know it's hard to believe, but there are many people out there who don't have a smart phone, and who don't know what a mouse is used for.

[Georgesgirl1]

The thing that bothers me about this is that we are not huge planners. We made 2-3 ADR's for a week long trip, and as AP holders, we make decisions about what parks to go to pretty last minute. It won't cause us not to go to Disney, but it will be a frustration to us and the way we travel.
Also, what about the average Disney guest who has no idea that ADR's need to be made months in advance? They will also not be knowledgable about the fastpass+ system and will leave Disney with an even worse taste in their mouth. Of course there are still the people who will come home from a trip to Disney complaining about how the lines were so long and Disney wanted them to put a credit card in the machine everytime they wanted to get a fastpass:confused:, so maybe this won't change things as much as I think they will.

[ChipNDale79]

I have to wonder. For all the people who say they will stop / reduce the amount of time they spend in Disney b/c they can't get a few FPs... makes me wonder if they are truly Disney fans?

Said differently, seems that they are not the demographic Disney is going after b/c they have very little loyalty to the brand...

What is a "true disney fan"? We are fans, no doubt, we've spent a lot of money at WDW in the past few years. We are taking a couple of years off because we have a 10 month old son and another one on the way now. If we werent in the middle of having children then I'm sure we would be going to disney 3 to 4 times this year.

However, as much I love Disney, its still a vacation to me. My wife and I work hard year round and when we go on vacation we like to sit back, relax, and have a great time. For us scheduling rides out months in advance isn't fun.

We are schedulers, we plan everything out on a spreadsheet, so it sounds like we would be the one's that love this, right?

Wrong, you should see our spreadsheet when we get to disney, it ends up getting trashed because we change our minds about what we want to do. We've been at DHS before and looked at each other and said "Why are we here?" The answer, because our spreadsheet told us we were supposed to be there. We hopped on the boat and went to Epcot and had a great time.

I want to be able to do what I want to, when I want to while I'm at Disney. With this new system, it doesn't sound like you'll be able to.

My children will grow up going to Disney, some of the best memories I have growing up were at Disney. Under this fast pass plan we will not take our children every single year, we'll take them other places and put Disney on a 3 or 4 year rotation.

So I guess in your eyes, because I don't say "yes" to everything Disney says, I'm not a "true Disney fan". So be it then.

[Frog]

Am I missing something? It sounds to me like you need internet access and computer literacy to use this new system If so, Disney risks alienating the people who are neither. I know it's hard to believe, but there are many people out there who don't have a smart phone, and who don't know what a mouse is used for.

People with money probably do...

[Jared]

So you could call this a rumor, but I have heard some information recently (from someone within Imagineering) that regular Fastpass is going to be gone soon. I know we've discussed the Next Gen/X-Pass thing a lot, but we were never sure if it would be something new, in addition to the current Fastpass system... or if it would be a complete replacement of the current Fastpass system. Sounds like it's the latter.

Here's what I've learned:
- The average guest uses between 1-2 fastpasses per day at the parks. Most people collect more than that, but never use them, or they lose them.
- Because of this, Fastpass is becoming a reservation-only service, being called Fastpass+. They don't feel that enough guests will be upset by this, because again, the average guest only uses one a day. In her words, "it's not a big enough dent in the system", so "day-of fastpasses will become a thing of the past."
- You can see evidence of this in that the kiosks for the Next-Gen/X-Pass/Fastpass+ are temporary plugins and aren't needed for very long. As well, there are no Fastpass kiosks slated for the Fantasyland expansion.
- She tells me that all current Fastpass kiosks are slated to be removed.

Take it with a grain of salt, but it's what I've heard!

Some other things she mentioned:
If your source is who I think she is, this is very reliable information.

[Frog]

I have to wonder. For all the people who say they will stop / reduce the amount of time they spend in Disney b/c they can't get a few FPs... makes me wonder if they are truly Disney fans?

Said differently, seems that they are not the demographic Disney is going after b/c they have very little loyalty to the brand...

True fans can and will change alliances/teams if their team/brand is not performing
That being said, we will take a wait and see attitude on this... by the way, it sure seems the new Fantasy land editions and BTM are looking like winners so far, maybe we will be able to say the same about FP+!

[mdricks]

This all seems a little strange to me. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

Runners? Presumably its still one ticket per person and one FP at a time (or thereabouts). Its not like someone is magically getting 50 FP's when they should only get one is it?

If seems the only problem recited that makes sense is the window issue and the fix for that is far easier than redoing the system, just start enforcing the rule.

I think what we are going to see is that fewer people use the FP system at all. If i have to pick what ride I’m going to be on October 27th at 2pm I will skip it. I find it hard to believe I am the only person who thinks this.

I can’t help but think this is painfully obvious which leads me to believe (if the rumor is true) that Disney is trying to back off of FP in total.

:number1:

[BrerGnat]

For those who feel that the new system will create an "unfair" situation, how? You will have NO idea which guests are staying Deluxe vs. Value. You will never know how many FP any particular guest has scheduled. This will be very non-obtrusive. Everything will be encoded onto RFID devices (cards, probably) and people will simply show up at the attraction at their scheduled window, swipe their card, and walk in. There will be no way to tell who is who and who has what.

There already IS a "class system" set up at WDW with the different tiers of resorts, and within those resorts, club level, suite level, etc.

If you think that having more money at WDW does NOT equal more perks already, you are sadly misinformed.

BUT, I do think that Disney would be making a HUGE mistake to eliminate the current free FP system altogether in favor of something that relies SO heavily on technology that they have not ever proven to be able to master (i.e. THE INTERNET)

There are already reports of glitches in the system from testing. They need to first of all, figure it out so that it works 100% of the time, and THEN they can think about switching it all over.

[minnie04]

People, what did you do before the Fast Pass???? It's not the end of the world!! So you have to plan a little more in advance which rides are the most important to you on the day you are there and make your way to them and wait the time to get on. I do like the fast pass, but it’s not going to stop me from going or riding what I came to ride. What do you do when you get there and they are all out? Do you leave or make the best of what you have for the day. I guess since I have been to WDW so many times it’s not something we think about any more (which rides we are doing) we make the best of the day and ride what we can. When my kids were little there was no “fast pass” We had to wait it out like everyone else.. The only place I would say you definitely need a “fast Pass” is Universal during Halloween Horror night. :mickey:

[MstngDrvnDsnyLvr]

WOW a Novel concept - WAITING IN LINE!!

That's what you'll do if you choose not to use the new FP system if they choose to go with the XPass system.

While some people refuse to wait in line if it will be over XX amount of minutes, I find myself enjoying the lines. People watching, 'mind games' while waiting, chatting up the nicer line fellows to the front or back of you, discussing life with your children, etc.

[darthmacho]

This is the ideal Disney Guest they are looking for


Takes Magical Express to and from Resort
Purchases a Park Hopper Ticket & Dining Plan
3 Stays at a Disney Resort (preferably at Deluxe)
4. Spends all their vacation money on property




Well they're going to LOVE me! In 2010, we qualified for all of your criteria (except we stayed in a moderate) for our 10 day trip, and this year we're spending our entire 14 days (value) on WDW property! No other theme parks are going to get a dime of our money for 24 days of vacation! :mickey:;)

[texas211]

All I can say is, i'm glad tablet technology is continuing to improve. I"ll need to bring a computer to track all of my reservations and such. I'll have to bring a whistle and my Drill Instructor hat too, to keep on schedule.

If they are going to change the system, i'd prefer the Universal way. Buy one, and can use it more often.

[disney obsessed]

I do not want to have to micro manage my vacation. It's a vacation for heavens sake!

[Jared]

For the record, I have no issue with Disney making Fastpass an "elitist" program. I don't see anything wrong with giving perks to people spending more of their money on Disney. The more you pay, the more you get.

You may call it unfair. It sounds like capitalism to me.

[Melanie]

What am I missing? Sounds like there is no accounting for the locals/day visitors/AP holders in this new plan. Am I misunderstanding that there will be no FP available for these folks?

[Jeri]

What am I missing? Sounds like there is no accounting for the locals/day visitors/AP holders in this new plan. Am I misunderstanding that there will be no FP available for these folks?

While we are none of these, I too am so confused. :confused:
So, they are doing away with the Fastpasses that we have always had in the past and gone with this new way?
But, what if you don't have a smartphone or bring a laptop with you, how will you know what time your fastpasses are for?

I am so confused. I understand they are testing it right now, but the OP is basically saying they are going to be doing this for sure 100%.
So when I go next year my choices are book my fastpasses online ahead of time, and make sure I can get my email to get my times OR just stand in line like before fastpass.

Hmmm..... not sure how either one will work with a baby. I can't guess how she is going to be on any one day, let alone if we will be at a ride at our scheduled time, and long standby lines will be hard too.:(

I like the old fastpasses, we got them only if we knew we could make the return time. If we couldn't make it we didn't get them, or if we are running late, too bad we never used them past their time.

So, confused :confused:

[Buttercup]

What am I missing? Sounds like there is no accounting for the locals/day visitors/AP holders in this new plan. Am I misunderstanding that there will be no FP available for these folks?
You're correct. According to her, it is becoming a reservation only system. Now, she never specified what would happen for day visitors, etc. She only said that "day-of" fastpasses will be a thing of the past. But perhaps, if you're staying off-site, or just a local person planning a day trip in a couple of weeks, they'll allow you to reserve a certain number of fastpasses online? That was unclear.


There are some interesting points in there, but you ended with a comment that "NextGen itself is going to be a huge fiasco." It's a cliffhanger. What are the concerns there?
Sorry, I was copying and pasting what she wrote -- yes, that's what was in the "Quoted" area. Basically, she understands that the PR has been awful for this, and that it's not being well received AT ALL by the general public. That's the fiasco. But that in the end, her thinking is that it will all be for the better. People will get used to it.


It is ultimately Disney's fault that they ALLOWED these "runners" and the like to return hours later.
You're right -- I think it originally started as a courtesy to guests who were running a little late. But then the "courtesy" became the "norm" and that was unfortunately never the intended purpose. I have to agree with you though: if that indeed was the source of the problem, why not just keep the existing system but just start enforcing the fastpass times?! I guess someone thought it was a good time to brainstorm some new and "innovative" idea! ;)

[Aurora]

The explanation of the change sounds so convoluted to me. If most guests used only 1 or 2 FastPasses per day, why change it to a system where you have to reserve a few passes per day? Doesn't make sense.

The "runner" explanation doesn't make sense either. You couldn't go from place to place gathering FPs for multiple attractions, because you either had to wait until the FP time of the first ride, or two hours, whichever came first. And as others have said, if guests were let in after the return time, just enforce the return time to solve that problem.

The only way this all DOES makes sense is that DIsney indeed plans to make FPs a perk, either for staying on property or for an extra fee. And they haven't figured out how to officially spin it yet, so that's why they're not talking.


...Basically, she understands that the PR has been awful for this, and that it's not being well received AT ALL by the general public. That's the fiasco. But that in the end, her thinking is that it will all be for the better. People will get used to it.

Of course they will. That doesn't mean it will all be for the better.

[Buttercup]

The explanation of the change sounds so convoluted to me. If most guests used only 1 or 2 FastPasses per day, why change it to a system where you have to reserve a few passes per day? Doesn't make sense.
I can't answer for her, but I can guess! They WANT people to use fastpasses. They WANT to be able to more accurately calculate where how many people are expected to be in a certain area of the park at a certain time. If everyone goes online and makes reservations to ride Space Mountain on Friday at 10am, then they can offer something else on the other side of the park to draw other guests in that direction. It's all about crowd control, and balancing out where the busy spots are going to be. When people only used 1 or 2 fastpasses in a day, it didn't really give them the information they were looking for.



The "runner" explanation doesn't make sense either. You couldn't go from place to place gathering FPs for multiple attractions, because you either had to wait until the FP time of the first ride, or two hours, whichever came first. And as others have said, if guests were let in after the return time, just enforce the return time to solve that problem.
I think the issue is, people would stampede to kiosks at Toy Story Mania or Everest or Soarin (for example) and collect a ton of fastpasses and then a large percentage of those fp's would never get used. And there'd be no more fp's available to guests that actually DID want to use them. Then all that data and crowd-control information they were hoping for was gone. Perhaps they're hoping that if you've made an official fastpass reservation online, you're more likely to use it?

Total speculation on my part, of course. Just trying to guess at the "why's"!

[DizneyRox]

It's all about planning. Knowing how many people need to staff the rides at any point in time, they can better control their administrative costs.

Buy allowing it to be an on-site perk is another reason to spend your money on accommodations. Tiering it based on the cost of the rooms is another driver for increasing the per guest profit number.

Makes perfect sense... That's if this is true. There is always at least a little truth in every rumor.

[Boost]

To anyone who disparages Florida Residents and/or Florida Residents who are AP holders and who do not always stay on property, here goes....

We are a family of five. We live about an hour from WDW. We typically use our passes once a month. Some months, we are there 3-4 weekends per month! Sometimes, we stay on property, sometimes we don't. We often eat on property despite the exorbitant prices for F & B...Example: Epcot...almost $10 for a beer?

My wife and I have been going since we were toddlers with our parents and grandparents and now we are taking our kids. They love Disney and we love that they do. No entertainment entity is perfect, but you get the sense that the effort is there to provide a seamless entertainment experience for everyone and when something goes awry, Disney's service recovery is the gold standard.

If we don't fit into Disney's magical plan as valued guests, someone please let me know and we won't renew our APs. Thank you.

[LVT]

1.I also wish for some real data. We try to use FP effectively.

2. I despise the Universal resort guest passes and really hope there will not be a tiered system at WDW.

3. We do not carry anything to the park but the room key, ticket and rain cape, so there is no email access.

To WDW: data soon, since I was going to make reservations. Now I will wait.

[Melanie]

If we don't fit into Disney's magical plan as valued guests, someone please let me know and we won't renew our APs. Thank you.

Bravo! WELL said, and I totally agree. :yes:

[mac badger]

I'm with Boost as well

[Aurora]

I think the issue is, people would stampede to kiosks at Toy Story Mania or Everest or Soarin (for example) and collect a ton of fastpasses and then a large percentage of those fp's would never get used. And there'd be no more fp's available to guests that actually DID want to use them. Then all that data and crowd-control information they were hoping for was gone. Perhaps they're hoping that if you've made an official fastpass reservation online, you're more likely to use it?

Total speculation on my part, of course. Just trying to guess at the "why's"!

I know what you're saying, but it seems to me that making people make reservations for their FPs in advance will encourage even LESS use of them. I'm more likely to use a FP if I'm in the park that day; if I happen to be at another park when I have a FP ressie I'm not going to race over to the other park to use it. That is, unless I have to pay for it.

And now that I just wrote that, it occurs to me -- maybe more and more people are forgoing buying the park hopper option in order to save money. If they think people won't use FPs because of the inflexibility, maybe they'll push park hoppers to build in that flexibility.

Too cynical? :shrug:

[DizneyFreak2002]

If we don't fit into Disney's magical plan as valued guests, someone please let me know and we won't renew our APs. Thank you.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but, you don't... AP holders and DVC members are lower on the Disney totem pole than they want you to believe.. Why??? Well, they already have you... You are a guaranteed revenue source for them... And the one that is least likely to get into a pixie dust stupor when it comes time for buying their over priced and not worth it merchandise... That is where the real money is for them... Not the AP price or the ticket price.. It is all about the merchandise... Oh and food too, i forget to mention that...

Truth is, most AP holders and DVC owners do not go bonkers buying merchandise because you'll be back year after year, sometimes more than one trip a year.... it is that family of four who comes once every 5 years, or who has that once in a lifetime vacation they care about... Why you ask again?? Simple.. They will spend thousands for some pixie dust magic that is not worth thousands...

Rox I think brought up a good point... This sounds like it may wind up being like Universal... Stay onsite and get this perk... Pay more and get more out of this perk... It is a way to inflate hotel occupancy numbers and sucker people to stay on property, trying to take people away from visiting competitors... More and more people are now booking Universal vacations and taking days off their Disney vacation to visit Universal since Potter opened... And now, people are leaving Disney to visit LegoLand.. And SeaWorld is upping the ante even more with their new offerings opening in the next 2 years... offerings that rival Disney, if not surpass... Plus, don't forget, Universal is going to feel the Potter effect again in 2014 when Diagon Alley opens... probably stealing Disney's thunder with their C ticket Dwarf Mine Train...

Why build new amazing rides and attractions?? Why add new parades?? Just tell people, NO FAST PASS UNLESS YOU STAY HERE (I can see Meg and her minions doing their evil laugh in the board rooms)...

I know this sounds rough, but this is the truth... I know people don't want to hear this about Disney, and I am sure someone will come along to try to chop me down... But take a step back and clear your mind a little... You'll see this is the way WDW is now operated... And dare I say, we've all got caught in their web...Only we can break it... And we know how we can do that... Money talks...

[stephicakes]

Well said DizneyFreak2002! I agree with the others and say we need to really wait and see how this pans out. But I will say this - my family are these "suckers". Yup... Disney has us hook, line & sinker!

This is the ideal Disney Guest they are looking for:
1.Takes Magical Express to and from Resort CHECK
2.Purchases a Park Hopper Ticket & Dining Plan CHECK (except the DP. I am a vegetarian and need more flexibility)
3 Stays at a Disney Resort (preferably at Deluxe) CHECK
4. Spends all their vacation money on property CHECK, CHECK and CHECK!

I think this new idea is a test just like DizneyFreak2002 mentioned... are we willing to pay extra for fast passes? My family - you betcha. We save up all year for this vaca, we stay on property and don't plan to leave, and we want to get the most out of our time there. It's just like Vegas - the more you spend, the more you get "comped". Is it fair? Kinda. I don't get mad at the people sitting in first class while I shuffle past to a cramped coach seat. Jealous, maybe. Mad, no. We have all been stuck in a long line in very humid weather as a TON of people walk by with FP and we think... "man, I wish I could just buy FP for the whole day". But do I want to plan my whole vaca in advance? NO WAY. I have no idea until we get there to know exactly what the weather is going to be like or how my family is feeling that day even if I have a general idea already. If I am forced to plan FP all out ahead of time in order to get this "perk" will it deter me a from going there? Probably a little. It will take some of that warm fuzzy feeling away from planning my Disney vacation. The last feeling I want while planning my vaca is stress. I doubt Disney wants that to happen. The last thing they want me to ask is, "Hey fam... how about the Grand Canyon this year?!" :wait: Just sayin'....

It will be interesting to see how this plays out! I think if they just enforce the current FP rules now, that should be enough. So far, sounds like it is helping...
:here:
steph

[disneynarula]

We are going on our first trip to WDW in about three years. I love WDW but there are other places to see and do.

I also looked into spending a few days at Universal Studios. I have to admit the Harry Potter attractions are a HUGE draw for me. After doing some research I decided that if we go to Universal it would be worth it to spend a few nights on property there to take advantage of the express system and the earlier hours.

Their "evil" plot worked.:thedolls: Disney's will too.

All the first time visitors who might have stayed at the holiday inn might think twice now. If Disney wants to fill hotel rooms this is one way to do that. All the pop up adds I see now are trying to attract NEW guests... not DVC members or Annual Pass Holders.

While I am dissapointed that there might be more passes given to people in a deluxe it does not surprise me at all. It's life. We stay at moderates and values because we like to save money. This choice comes with some downsides. The new system might end up being one of these. Will it make me upgrade to a deluxe?.... probably not.

[Stu29573]

I'm sorry, but I just can't see this as being a good thing. We usually are able to check off all of the boxes for being the kind of guests they want (except for the "Deluxe" thing, we use "Moderate") but I still feel short changed by this. The most fastpasses we ever got during a day was maybe two, and we were fine with it. We wander here and there in the parks and go places on a whim..you know, like on a VACATION. Even though I'm a planner, I steadfastly refuse to believe that saying I am going to be on attraction X at Y time while still weeks out from my visit is going to make anything more "magical." Heck, even my DVR lets me watch what I want when I want... Its all about choices, and I feel Disney is limiting mine while I am at the parks. My whole life is ruled by schedules, my vacation shouldn't be.

[DizneyRox]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but, you don't... AP holders and DVC members are lower on the Disney totem pole than they want you to believe.. Why??? Well, they already have you... You are a guaranteed revenue source for them...
Count me in this bucket, but with a twist...

These may not be related, but here goes...

Prior to owning DVC, we used to go two times a year minimum. We went of the Millennium Celebration like 6 times (granted it was extended a while). I used to buy a TON of merchandise at places like Gourmet Partry, Disney @ Home, etc.

Now that we are DVC, we're down to once a year (twice if you count us using an AP to cover two vacations). We haven't been to Disney in a couple years now actually. I think we spent less than $100 last time we went on non food items. We are cooking in the room more and more these days (ain't DVC wonderful) because the food prices are out of control.

So, yeah, guarantee revenue source, MAYBE... They have the DVC property covered, but really don't get much else out of us.

We bought DVC though around 2001 or so, which on my calendar was the beginnning of the end of the Disney we all knew and loved. Everything has gone down hill since then, Parks, Dining, Merchandise, Pixie Dust, etc.

[BrerGnat]

I still don't believe that Fastpass to the "general public" (i.e. NOT people staying on property) will go away. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I do believe that Fastpass will be changing and/or a new version will roll out for resort guest, but I will not for one second believe that Disney would be dumb enough to alienate ALL those locals, AP holders, and day guests. That would be a kiss of death after so many years of offering free Fastpass.

This is particularly true at Disneyland. They would see a MASSIVE decrease of attendance numbers if they tried to pull a "you must be staying at one of three on property resorts to use Fastpass" move. Wouldn't work there at all and I don't see them having two totally different Fastpass systems on both coasts.

My best guess is that Fastpass will be available in a limited way to "day guests" and resort guests will have the benefit/priority of making ride reservations in advance. Then, the "day guests" will be able to have the leftovers. I suppose there could be centrally located kiosks/CMs with tablets where you could walk up, see what rides/times are available, choose what you want, swipe your RFID card, and off you go. It would be easy enough for them to hand out RFID cards/wristbands (whatever) to guests on the way in that are "disposable" at the end of the day.

They could also easily encode all future Annual Passes with an RFID chip, and they can revert to plastic tickets and do the same.

Because this new system relies on technology, and the ability to check your reservation times via email, they CANNOT make it the only way.

[Stu29573]

Also, although I'm trying to take a "wait and see" attitude about all of this, all the rumors, misinformation, real information, etc are really out of control on this subject and have been for quite a while. I fear that Disney, as a company, has gotten fat and lazy when it comes to PR. (Just witness the promotion, or lack thereof, of John Carter). There are many hard feelings about something that might turn out to be wonderful, but no one will get in front of the message. This is NOT the way to run a multi billion dollor company. Heck, its not even the way I run my own side business. Am I better than Disney at this? Yes, yes I am. (I now smugly hit "post")

[Disney Doll]

For those who feel that the new system will create an "unfair" situation, how? You will have NO idea which guests are staying Deluxe vs. Value. You will never know how many FP any particular guest has scheduled. This will be very non-obtrusive. Everything will be encoded onto RFID devices (cards, probably) and people will simply show up at the attraction at their scheduled window, swipe their card, and walk in. There will be no way to tell who is who and who has what.

There already IS a "class system" set up at WDW with the different tiers of resorts, and within those resorts, club level, suite level, etc.

If you think that having more money at WDW does NOT equal more perks already, you are sadly misinformed.


It's because I know that having more money at WDW already equals more perks that I don't think we need to add another element to that money= everything equation. I want to go about my vacation with the illusion that Disney cares about my experience and not just my money. When everything has a price tag Disney starts to feel like just another money grubbing corporate complex where nothing matters but the bottom line. Where's the magic in that?


For the record, I have no issue with Disney making Fastpass an "elitist" program. I don't see anything wrong with giving perks to people spending more of their money on Disney. The more you pay, the more you get.

You may call it unfair. It sounds like capitalism to me.

I'm not going to get into a debate on income inequality, but suffice it to say that I have certainly enjoyed perks in my life that I didn't earn. I'm pretty sure that fairness is not the goal of capitalism. And this is exactly my point, I don't want to be thinking about the merits of capitalism or about income inequality on VACATION.

[ChipNDale79]

It's because I know that having more money at WDW already equals more perks that I don't think we need to add another element to that money= everything equation. I want to go about my vacation with the illusion that Disney cares about my experience and not just my money. When everything has a price tag Disney starts to feel like just another money grubbing corporate complex where nothing matters but the bottom line. Where's the magic in that?



I'm not going to get into a debate on income inequality, but suffice it to say that I have certainly enjoyed perks in my life that I didn't earn. I'm pretty sure that fairness is not the goal of capitalism. And this is exactly my point, I don't want to be thinking about the merits of capitalism or about income inequality on VACATION.

I've got to agree with you here, Disney needs to walk a fine line with treating their guest fairly and padding their bottom line. If guests feel like they are being treated unfairly, chances are they might not return, which in the end means less money for Disney.

[Buttercup]

Everyone is talking about how this rumored version of Fastpass+ will absolutely REQUIRE email service while in the parks (so you can check your ride times, etc.). And believe me, nobody hates that idea more than me! I'm Canadian and I refuse to pay tons of money to get data on my phone while I'm in the states.
But, I'm going to play devils advocate here.

You aren't required to have email in the parks in order to use your dining reservations right now, correct? Sure, it's helpful if you've got it all listed on your phone right there to help remind you. But for the rest of us, we just write down our reservation times on good ole' fashioned paper and bring that to the parks. OR, we ask conceirge at the hotel to print off our reservations for us. I'm sure the same could be implemented for Ride Time Reservations.

Brownie: I completely agree with you that this type of system would destroy Disneyland in California because the majority of the guests there are locals just dropping by as a day trip. But WDW in Florida is a whole other beast. You've got to PLAN your entire vacation, even if it's just for one day right now. Who's to say they don't roll out slightly different approaches on each coast? My guess is you're right: the day-of people will get the leftovers and will be able to use those up as they are available.

From where I'm sitting right now, the thought of planning out my ride times seems awful. I can just see the arguments with people's kids: "STOP CRYING! WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO THE HOTEL FOR A NAP BECAUSE WE HAVE A RIDE TIME AT 4:07pm THAT WE MADE MONTHS AGO, AND DOG-GONNIT WE'RE GONNA BE THERE!!!" :shake:

But, I don't know. I've been going to Disney World for over 30 years. We used to have a book of tickets for each individual ride. That changed. Our park passes used to never expire. That changed. We used to only have a standby lineup. That changed. We never used to have to go through security checks. That changed too. Good or bad, we all got used to the changes. Some of them were great and felt like "perks", some of them were necessary evils that we all had to just accept. But the point is, 34 years later, I'm STILL going to Disney World. So I'll assimilate to whatever they've got in store. I'm sure I will. It will just become the new "normal". Five years from now, this will all be status-quo.

[shadowden]

So I guess in your eyes, because I don't say "yes" to everything Disney says, I'm not a "true Disney fan". So be it then.

No, what im saying is that people who will forgo going to Disney if they implement this plane are not true Disney fans. Seems like a minor issue to me...

[ChipNDale79]

No, what im saying is that people who will forgo going to Disney if they implement this plane are not true Disney fans. Seems like a minor issue to me...

Then I guess I'm not a true Disney fan in your eyes because I like flexibility in my vacation.

Anything I'm a fan of still has to earn my money.

[Disney Doll]

I think Buttercup makes a good point about email access. When we did the FP testing a couple of weeks ago fp times were emailed and they were quick to point out that if we didn't have access to email we could get the info at guest relations. It's much less convenient, but it's an option. Hopefully if it is planned in advance people will print that info at home if they won't have access to email.

[BriarRose0708]

As a big planner and casual Fast Pass user, I'm not sure I know how I feel about the Fastpass+ system, at least from what I know about it. I know what parks I'm going to on what days and make ADRs in advance because I have to, and I generally have an idea of which attractions I want to hit. I'd probably fall into the category of 1 to 2 Fast Passes a day. In October I'm not getting a park hopper so maybe if the new system is in place it won't affect me that much since I'll have all day in one park to do what I want and I don't mind standby waits. Many people get all "I don't wait for more than 20 minutes" but for me I'd rather wait 45 to 50 minutes for a quality ride/attraction than skip it. Maybe it's because growing up we would go to the local amusement parks and wait hours for roller coasters that I'm used to it?

I would really hate to think that Fast Passes would be based on hotel level. Disney is expensive enough and to limit the number of Fast Passes you get in advance just because you stay at a Value is, to me, ridiculous.

[Ian]

You know I'm just adopting an "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude with this Fastpass+ stuff. I've seen so many rumors, most of them in direct conflict with one another, that I have no idea what to think.

Here's what I do know ... if this program was going to be received as good news by the Disney 'Net community there would be tons of official info out there. Disney's grotesque silence leads me to believe that this new program will somehow be set up to bilk the not-in-the-know masses out of cash somehow and leave the experienced, loyal Disney guest out in the cold.

Their handling of this has just been epicly bad. They wonder why it's being received negatively??? Because NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HECK IT IS and in the absence of information people will always assume the worst.

I will say, though, that this sentence from the original post rings so true that I find this source to be pretty credible, "They don't feel that enough guests will be upset by this, because again, the average guest only uses one a day."

This is exactly the way TDO thinks these days, so it has a ton of believeability in my mind. Also, a company that thinks nothing of building $8 million vacation homes in the Magic Kingdom's backyard certainly would have no qualms about issuing extra Fastpasses to people who buck up big dollars.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Count me in this bucket, but with a twist...

These may not be related, but here goes...

Prior to owning DVC, we used to go two times a year minimum. We went of the Millennium Celebration like 6 times (granted it was extended a while). I used to buy a TON of merchandise at places like Gourmet Partry, Disney @ Home, etc.

Now that we are DVC, we're down to once a year (twice if you count us using an AP to cover two vacations). We haven't been to Disney in a couple years now actually. I think we spent less than $100 last time we went on non food items. We are cooking in the room more and more these days (ain't DVC wonderful) because the food prices are out of control.

So, yeah, guarantee revenue source, MAYBE... They have the DVC property covered, but really don't get much else out of us.

We bought DVC though around 2001 or so, which on my calendar was the beginnning of the end of the Disney we all knew and loved. Everything has gone down hill since then, Parks, Dining, Merchandise, Pixie Dust, etc.

I'm beginning to feel like you Rox... except, I'm willing to spend money on food, off property in a lot of those fine restaurants on International Drive/I-4... Many of those places are better than Disney restaurants... But, I will admit, I have to have my one breakfast at Kona... My friend feels the need for lunch at Yak n Yeti... I love Earl of Sandwich and require at least 1 sandwich from there in the week... And even though I do like a lot of the places, the prices are too darn high...

After my last trip this part October, I said for now on, Walmart for food and cooking in the room or BBQing at the Treehouses... I did a cost analysis (way too much time on my hands without a job but that is a topic for another thread)... Would cost several hundred less to buy meats and breakfast foods at Walmart than booking a dinner at WDW every day....

[DizneyFreak2002]

You know I'm just adopting an "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude with this Fastpass+ stuff. I've seen so many rumors, most of them in direct conflict with one another, that I have no idea what to think.

Here's what I do know ... if this program was going to be received as good news by the Disney 'Net community there would be tons of official info out there. Disney's grotesque silence leads me to believe that this new program will somehow be set up to bilk the not-in-the-know masses out of cash somehow and leave the experienced, loyal Disney guest out in the cold.

Their handling of this has just been epicly bad. They wonder why it's being received negatively??? Because NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE HECK IT IS and in the absence of information people will always assume the worst.

I will say, though, that this sentence from the original post rings so true that I find this source to be pretty credible, "They don't feel that enough guests will be upset by this, because again, the average guest only uses one a day."

This is exactly the way TDO thinks these days, so it has a ton of believeability in my mind. Also, a company that thinks nothing of building $8 million vacation homes in the Magic Kingdom's backyard certainly would have no qualms about issuing extra Fastpasses to people who buck up big dollars.

Considering TDO views tourists as idiots, well, yea.. :)

Once again, you hit the nail on the head... I'm waiting for the lifestylers to wax poetic about how awesome this all is as they receive their free Disney swag.... And if people want names, I'll PM them...

[Mousemates]

Then I guess I'm not a true Disney fan in your eyes because I like flexibility in my vacation.

Anything I'm a fan of still has to earn my money.

:ditto:

I know this pops up in threads from time to time here...but I really get tired of the whole "your not a true Disney fan" thing. No, I pretty much am a fan, I've been going for nearly 40 years and have pretty much done all the stuff.

However, being a fan of Disney doesn't mean I have to "hit the like button" every time they make a decision. Nor does it mean I am bound to continue to pour my dollars into the parks at the same rate I have in times past. If Disney transitions to something I no longer enjoy as much,I will back off in both the amount of vacation time and disposable income I use there.

I sometimes wonder if I am more a fan of what Disney once was (nostalgia driven) rather than what Disney now is (completely rational in my decision to vacation there).

We do still enjoy our vacations there, & will likely continue to go at least once a year (for those reasons of nostalgia), regardless of what fast-X-plus-pass turns out to be...but if its another step towards having to plan each vacation day exactly 179 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds out to ride Toy Story without a 2 hour wait...I will be much less fanatic about going and will do Disney less in the future.

[waymickey]

From where I'm sitting right now, the thought of planning out my ride times seems awful. I can just see the arguments with people's kids: "STOP CRYING! WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO THE HOTEL FOR A NAP BECAUSE WE HAVE A RIDE TIME AT 4:07pm THAT WE MADE MONTHS AGO, AND DOG-GONNIT WE'RE GONNA BE THERE!!!" :shake:

But, I don't know. I've been going to Disney World for over 30 years. We used to have a book of tickets for each individual ride. That changed. Our park passes used to never expire. That changed. We used to only have a standby lineup. That changed. We never used to have to go through security checks. That changed too. Good or bad, we all got used to the changes. Some of them were great and felt like "perks", some of them were necessary evils that we all had to just accept. But the point is, 34 years later, I'm STILL going to Disney World. So I'll assimilate to whatever they've got in store. I'm sure I will. It will just become the new "normal". Five years from now, this will all be status-quo.

I agree. Disney knows this too and thats is why there is no PR going on. People will get used to it quickly and continue to enjoy their vacation.

[Allenfow98]

i was one of those "runners" i wouldnt run clear across the park, but i would run into the next adjacent land and get our next fastpass. I am looking forward with reserved excitement to see how this new system will work, i for one would like to not have to run around and get our next fastpass. But i am wondering if we will be able to choose when and where our fastpasses are. We always have kids with us, so an 11am fastpass at buzz followed by a 12 noon fastpass at pirates or splash wouldnt work at all. I am hoping they will let you pick so you can atleast get fastpases in the same land or atleast the next land over pretty close in times.

[Crow]

I used to use FP and go on rides after the hr window, and I will miss that. there are times you are somewhere and dont make it back in time.
and i know there where a lot of times id go for a FP and return times where waaay later or they were all gone for the day.
I do make some dinner ADRs in advance now..but i do miss being able to walk up to places to eat wo one.
and the same way w FP, I dont want to have to plan them before i arrive. There were times i would walk to the bus stop at the resort, saw a line waiting for the bus for MK and took the Epcot bus instead and went there.
Yea Im wondering how much they will try to get out of this $

[Buttercup]

Someone mentioned that they couldn't believe that Value resorts would only get a certain number of FP's whereas Deluxe would get more.... it's not "fair".
Unfortunately, Disney already does this, fair or not. Think about the free dining -- if you stay at a Value Resort, you only get free quick service dining for free. If you want to get the "free" regular dining, you can either a.) upgrade to a higher level of resort, or b.) pay the difference. Either way, if you want the good stuff, you're gonna have to pay extra.

I can see a similar system being set up for Fast Passes quite easily, unfortunately. They'll still call Fast Pass a "free" service, but rest assured they'll make their billion dollars back in other ways....

[Crow]

Someone mentioned that they couldn't believe that Value resorts would only get a certain number of FP's whereas Deluxe would get more.... it's not "fair".
Unfortunately, Disney already does this, fair or not. Think about the free dining -- if you stay at a Value Resort, you only get free quick service dining for free. If you want to get the "free" regular dining, you can either a.) upgrade to a higher level of resort, or b.) pay the difference. Either way, if you want the good stuff, you're gonna have to pay extra.

I can see a similar system being set up for Fast Passes quite easily, unfortunately. They'll still call Fast Pass a "free" service, but rest assured they'll make their billion dollars back in other ways....
yep they will

[harlowandthemermaid]

I don't think I like the sound of this.....we do not plan very far in advance so it's not easy to plan months ahead of time which rides we want FP's for and when. I am not the average guest who uses 1 FP a day. I'm the guest who would go get the next FP as soon as the first window opened, and then go back and ride the first ride. By the time we were done there, often the next rides window would open and I'd do the same thing elsewhere. Sure not running around would be nice but we would use numerous FP's per day back to back, especially since they would always let you come back after your window had passed. I consider msyelf to be a huge parks fan, but I can't stand waiting in long lines and we sooner skip rides than wait in long lines. If this new system is going to make all the standby lines much longer, it probably would make things a lot less fun for us. The other thing is that we only go to the park for a few hours at a time and then usually break for pool/relaxation. I guess if we could plan mutiple FP times in a row, which is what we've done in the past, this would work, but having a FP in the morning and another 3 or 4 hours later wouldn't be practical for us.

[FamilyBand1]

To anyone who disparages Florida Residents and/or Florida Residents who are AP holders and who do not always stay on property, here goes....

We are a family of five. We live about an hour from WDW. We typically use our passes once a month. Some months, we are there 3-4 weekends per month! Sometimes, we stay on property, sometimes we don't. We often eat on property despite the exorbitant prices for F & B...Example: Epcot...almost $10 for a beer?

My wife and I have been going since we were toddlers with our parents and grandparents and now we are taking our kids. They love Disney and we love that they do. No entertainment entity is perfect, but you get the sense that the effort is there to provide a seamless entertainment experience for everyone and when something goes awry, Disney's service recovery is the gold standard.

If we don't fit into Disney's magical plan as valued guests, someone please let me know and we won't renew our APs. Thank you.

Nailed it. We're in the same boat. Been coming since I was 2. I'll spend more in one year than a family that comes once a year.

As far as using FPs "past" the allotted time, I did it all the time. (Flame me if you must.) If there was a line for FP return, I'd come back when there was no line. To me, that only kept the lines flowing. No? After the strict adherence to the time on the FP, I've been waiting in longer lines, in the rain on a couple of occasions. (Always fun with a 1 year old.)

Just like reservations for dinner, people will reserve FPs over the phone/internet and not use them. You are more likely to use it when you're in the park. Notice they are taking your CC and billing you $10/person if you bail on your dinner reservation? Are they going to do the same if you don't use your FP?

I love WDW and as disappointed with some of their decisions I get, I know I'll never stop taking my family... and spending THOUSANDS per year.

[SurferStitch]

I'm the one online (okay, on the phone this time since online ADR's didn't work) 180 in advance. I make all our dining ADR's so we can look forward to our favorite restaurants. That's fine with me (even though I wish we were back at the 90 day window, but that's another topic).

I really don't mind planning meals.... I don't!

BUT... planning rides???? There are plenty of mornings where DH and I don't even know which PARK we want to visit that day, let alone have rides scheduled.

I mean, if we wake up and it's a dreary, rainy day, and we planned to go to AK, well, we don't go. We hit Epcot or MK. For the most part we have a good idea of which park we want to visit on which day, but that can change at any time, and often does.

If I MUST schedule rides months in advance, I may try a couple. But I refuse to plan my vacations to that detail. We'll still go to WDW, but we may just not get to ride as many popular rides as we used to. I guess we'll just have to adapt.

[DisneyGiant]

I am late to this conversation. My original reaction to this "having to plan out months in advance the attractions we are going to visit" seemed ridiculous to me.

But we are DVC and usually once a year attenders (buying all of our food as who wants to cook on vacation?) and oh by the way we always go in July - the busiest time of year...... This fast pass plus thing might turn out to be helpful for us.

The only caveat would be - getting our preferred FP times - we are morning people who like to swim in the afternoons - then go to another park for dinner - so they better not give me some wacky time to go on Space or Splash Mountains!

Seriously though - I don't know how it's going to work & not affect our "fun" factor (stopping to partake in extra magic stuff - like participating in streetmossphere activities), but I'd love to be guaranteed a spot with no wait on Toy Story Mania, Soarin, and let's throw in Fantasmic (not having to eat at some weird time or get to sit in the middle section).

I'll see how it plays out....... Not sure how they can make most folks happy given millions of people's preferences.....

[mermaidmarian]

Since DS is old enough to ride unattended, FP probably doesn't matter as much to us as it did earlier in our lives, now that we can (and do) use single rider when available.

That said, I think the new system, if it requires advanced planning - to the extent of knowing what park you will be attending and what rides you will want to ride on what date of your visit to WDW, 180 days in advance! - sounds utterly ludicrous. I sincerely hope that they reconsider that aspect of the proposed change to the FP system.

[eandrsmom]

So, when does everyone think these changes are actually going to take place? We're going in July, and are hoping all of this starts in 2013, after the hot, humid summer.

[DizneyFreak2002]

So, when does everyone think these changes are actually going to take place? We're going in July, and are hoping all of this starts in 2013, after the hot, humid summer.

My guess?? Summer 2013... Providing the Mayans are wrong of course...