quick service dining plan cut back even more???

[dyin tago]

hi,

we have visited in september several times with the free quick service dining plan.

they are announcing the free dining plan shortly again this year but I just read they are now offering one snack per day instead of 2.

I know it is still free but they are cutting more and more every year and it still bugs me.

opinions?

[Strmchsr]

They've been scaling the whole DDP back little by little every year. As we've discussed ad nauseum, the DDP isn't about value. It's not a good value. Hasn't been since tips an appetizers were included. It's all about convenience. Some folks just like to pre-pay and not have to worry about it while on vacation even if they don't really get their money's worth. The "free" dining isn't "free. You have to pay full rack-rate on the room in order to get it. Still a good discount, especially at the value resorts (though less so now that they do "free" QS at the values) but I prefer a room only discount with the tables in wonderland card. Saves us more and we can eat how we want.

[Butters]

I agree, unless we get free dining, I can't imagine ever paying for the plan

[BrerGnat]

This dining plan is getting to be more and more like the one that has been offered at Disneyland Resort for the past several years. They use a "voucher" system, where you pay for a dining plan, but they just turn your money into "vouchers (CS and TS)" that you use to "pay" for your food. However, the vouchers have no cash value, and if you don't spend as much as you paid for it, you don't get any change back. It's bizarre, but it seems like the WDW dining plan is getting more and more like this one.

DIsney is going to reach the point VERY soon where people start to realize what a scam the DDP is. All you have to do is compare it now to what it was when it was first offered to realize that it was only a "deal" the first year it was offered.

Disney is counting on the fact that enough people are "used to" it by now and will keep getting it in the future based on past experience, while they slowly whittle it down further. It's all psychological. Consumers are easily duped these days, sadly.

[greengeen]

It's not "free" and never was - you have to pay ridiculously high rack room rates to get the "free" dining. It's rarely (if ever) a good deal IMO.

[Reedy Creek Buccaneer]

$1339.95 for Room

$1054.35 for 3 - 8 Day Tickets w/ Water Park Fun & More

$1082.34 in FREE DINING!!!!!!!


It may not be totally free, but it is a pretty good deal!!!!

[mgmnut]

We end up using the Dining Plan each trip. Each trip I contemplate not getting it, but we always end up getting it. I like knowing the majority of our food is pre-paid and I don't have to worry about a food budget, it makes the trip less stressful, more carefree. When we are on vacation we like to sit down, relax, and eat out, trying different foods. I don't feel I ever "lost" money on the DP but I also don't think we save anything either. An average Adult sit down TS dinner Entree is about $25.00 - $30.00 pp, with soft drink drink 2.00, and dessert 6.00. I would say a CS lunch averages about $15.00 with entree, drink and dessert, add in a daily snack 4.00, this comes out to about $50.00 to $55.00 pp per day for food if out of pocket. DDP is now 51.00 pp/pd. Although, not everyone wants a big TS meal with dessert each day of vacation. So, unless your a foodie (like me :D) the plan is obviously not for you. So now, since the QS plan dropped the second snack, I think the best you can do on either plan is break even.

When we first used a Disney Dining plan, it was many many years ago (somewhere around 1991)and it was called the food and fun package. Not only did you get Apps, entree, drink, dessert, and snacks, 15% gratuity was also included. Plus I think it was 2 TS each day, not 1 TS and 1 CS. It also covered recreation like pontoon or mouse boat rentals, etc. That year we stayed at CBR. We rented a pontoon boat from DTD. We took the boat down to Port Orleans, docked it, shopped, ate lunch, and returned the pontoon boat 3 hours later. No Charge, All included in the plan! What would a 3 hour pontoon rental cost today? Now that is when the package was a deal!! :thumbsup:

Deal or no deal, I still like the DDP option

I just have to plan on more treadmill time prior to and after vaca to burn off the thousands of extra calories!!

[joonyer]

$1339.95 for Room

$1054.35 for 3 - 8 Day Tickets w/ Water Park Fun & More

$1082.34 in FREE DINING!!!!!!!


It may not be totally free, but it is a pretty good deal!!!!

It's sounds really great when you compare the free dining plan vacation to the actual cost of a trip with the dining plan if you had to pay for the same DDP. The difference may well exceed the difference between the room rack rate and room rate available at at discount. That's the way that Disney wants you to think about the "savings" because they make a big profit off the DDP.

But a more realistic way to compare the savings is to compare the the total cost of your vacation (room and dining, tickets will be the same either way) using the "free dining" offer, and what you would actually spend on your vacation if you got a room discount and paid OOP for meals.

To use the above example's numbers:

Room cost with a 30% discount. $1,339.95 - 401.98 = $937.96

3 (8 day) passes = $1,054.35

Food cost paid OOP: = $800.00 (give or take $25)
This is based on what our family of 4 (vs. 3 people in above example) (include 2 teen-age boys) has actually spent on food at WDW during our 7 night trips. I think 4 vs 3 would mean we would have spent even less on an 8-day stay with only 3 people. To be fair, we usually eat breakfast snacks in our room before heading to parks and we don't eat at a TS restaurant every day.

Total vacation cost paying out of pocket for food: = $2,742.31

Total vacation cost using Free Dining: = $3,476.64

For our family, if we use the "free dining" offer, we'd actually spend more $$$ on our vacation than we would without the free dining and paying OOP for food, based on the way we normally eat on our WDW trips. Even if we spent $1,000.00 a week on food, we'd still spend less not using DDP. I think Disney knows this is true for the majority of their guests and that's why they promote it so heavily.

Now, if you would eat at an expensive TS restaurant at least once every day of your trip anyway, you might me able to "break even" with the DDP, depending on what your order and by using your credits carefully, but Disney has figured out that most guests will spend more money on their vacations by using the DDP, whether they get it free or pay for it. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer it. Trust me, they are not giving away free food. Too much profit there.

On the other hand, the DDP is convenient and it encourage users to eat at restaurants they may not have otherwise tried, which can be a lot of fun. We enjoyed it a lot when we purchased the DDP (years ago when apps and tips were included)(even though it was way too much food for us). Just don't be fooled into thinking you are actually getting a less expensive Disney vacation.

[BrerGnat]

It's sounds really great when you compare the free dining plan vacation to the actual cost of a trip with the dining plan if you had to pay for the same DDP. The difference may well exceed the difference between the room rack rate and room rate available at at discount. That's the way that Disney wants you to think about the "savings" because they make a big profit off the DDP.

But a more realistic way to compare the savings is to compare the the total cost of your vacation (room and dining, tickets will be the same either way) using the "free dining" offer, and what you would actually spend on your vacation if you got a room discount and paid OOP for meals.

To use the above example's numbers:

Room cost with a 30% discount. $1,339.95 - 401.98 = $937.96

3 (8 day) passes = $1,054.35

Food cost paid OOP: = $800.00 (give or take $25)
This is based on what our family of 4 (vs. 3 people in above example) (include 2 teen-age boys) has actually spent on food at WDW during our 7 night trips. I think 4 vs 3 would mean we would have spent even less on an 8-day stay with only 3 people. To be fair, we usually eat breakfast snacks in our room before heading to parks and we don't eat at a TS restaurant every day.

Total vacation cost paying out of pocket for food: = $2,742.31

Total vacation cost using Free Dining: = $3,476.64

For our family, if we use the "free dining" offer, we'd actually spend more $$$ on our vacation than we would without the free dining and paying OOP for food, based on the way we normally eat on our WDW trips. Even if we spent $1,000.00 a week on food, we'd still spend less not using DDP. I think Disney knows this is true for the majority of their guests and that's why they promote it so heavily.

Now, if you would eat at an expensive TS restaurant at least once every day of your trip anyway, you might me able to "break even" with the DDP, depending on what your order and by using your credits carefully, but Disney has figured out that most guests will spend more money on their vacations by using the DDP, whether they get it free or pay for it. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer it. Trust me, they are not giving away free food. Too much profit there.

On the other hand, the DDP is convenient and it encourage users to eat at restaurants they may not have otherwise tried, which can be a lot of fun. We enjoyed it a lot when we purchased the DDP (years ago when apps and tips were included)(even though it was way too much food for us). Just don't be fooled into thinking you are actually getting a less expensive Disney vacation.

VERY well put! This is the kind of information that Disney hopes the majority of people don't come across.

We save money by using the room only discounts to book the Club Level, and then we spend EVEN less on food OOP for the week. Last trip, our family of four spent only about $500 on food for a week. We pay less to travel this way than if we were to take "free dining" and choose a standard room at a deluxe resort.

I think people are quick to think they are pulling one over on Disney when they "score" Free Dining. It's the other way around, though.

[Disney Hungarian]

The "free dining" may not be free. But, I do save money using it. I take my mother. Just the 2 of us staying at a value resort. The average room only discount would only equal about $30 a night. So I pay $30 dollars a night more for the room and get 4 meals and 2 snacks a day for that $30. Granted we do not eat dessert and if I paid out of pocket for a CS meal it would be roughly $24 a meal for the both of us. So a typical day in the parks with counter service meals would only cost us $48 a day add the 2 snacks $6. Would be $54. So to break it down. The dining plan allows $24 a night savings for us. Each family would reach different numbers for their trip. But it is easy enough to sit down and figure if it is a good deal or not.

[Pop Centurion]

Every year we total up our dining receipts & every year the DDP would have saved us money if we paid for it instead of getting it for free. So it depends on where & what you eat. And yes these are restaurants we would eat at even if not using the DDP.

Also a room discount isn't a better deal if you're staying at a value or maybe even a moderate (never priced it)
A lot of people mention you pay rack rate for the room but if at the time there's no room discount available then you'd be paying that price anyway except now you get the DDP.

The only true way for somebody to know if it's a deal is to figure you total cost with no DDP vs with DDP vs with room discount.

I understand those who dislike the DDP because they feel it destroyed the dining experience in WDW as far as spontaneity, quality, variety, & portion size but who's to say this wouldn't have happened anyway with the way Disney constantly makes cuts to increase profit?

[magicofdisney]

Not everyone is duped by Disney. As long as you do the math and you come out ahead, you're doing OK. Because I'm a season pass holder, I don't need to buy the full ticket package. As long as the group is large enough, free dining can be a better deal than room discounts.

[SBETigg]

Even if Disney didn't make a profit directly from the Dining Plan, they are making sure that you're staying to dine at Disney, which means you're in their restaurants and still on site, where you can always spend more money instead of taking your business elsewhere. It's a big win for them. So why make it a bad deal for customers with continued cutbacks? I think they could add more to it and still come out ahead.

[BrerGnat]

Even if Disney didn't make a profit directly from the Dining Plan, they are making sure that you're staying to dine at Disney, which means you're in their restaurants and still on site, where you can always spend more money instead of taking your business elsewhere. It's a big win for them. So why make it a bad deal for customers with continued cutbacks? I think they could add more to it and still come out ahead.

I agree with this. The one year we did the dining plan, it was the first year it was offered. It was an amazing deal! I bet they still made loads of profit off of it. I don't understand why all the cutbacks and price raises over the years. This is why I feel the way I do about it now. It's just a money grab from Disney, pure and simple, and it's not a value for the customer at all. Everyone knows that stuff like fountain drinks and desserts are HUGE profit makers for any company. How nice of Disney to include so much of those items in their current dining plans. :rolleyes:

[Fangorn]

[QUOTE] Even if Disney didn't make a profit directly from the Dining Plan, they are making sure that you're staying to dine at Disney, which means you're in their restaurants and still on site, where you can always spend more money instead of taking your business elsewhere. It's a big win for them. So why make it a bad deal for customers with continued cutbacks? I think they could add more to it and still come out ahead. QUOTE]

Sherri, you're quite correct. But...

I'm a business consultant and I've been studying companies' business practices for a very long time now. Disney, like a very large percentage of companies, has been taken over by the micro-managing accountants. They have generally lost sight of the big picture and measure everything at the lowest possible level as if that function was a stand-alone business and not part of a larger whole. Managers in these types of companies are rewarded on how they control costs or increase revenue in their own, very limited, fiefdoms - not on how well they contribute to the overall success of the company. This typically results in 'Department A' implementing something that saves them 50 cents, but costs 'Department B' 50 dollars because it ticked off customers. Few companies (particularly large ones) have any clue that this is happening since cross-functional communication is usually non-existent and internal politics rules the day.

There is a famous story from the early days of Disneyland that puts this into perspective. In 1955, the forerunner of what is now the park map was more along the lines of a high-end magazine. 20 some pages of full color pictures of Disneyland that they gave away for free at the Park. The story goes that shortly after opening day, the bean-counters came to Walt and informed him that it cost an outlandishly high (for 1955) 23 cents to print one of these brochures and that they needed to reduce the quality or, better yet, charge guests 25 cents for them. Then the printing line item on the budget would be making a profit. Walt's response was an emphatic "NO". Did they not understand that by giving those high-end materials away to every guest, they were assured a place of honor on every coffee table of every family that visited Disneyland and that the advertising value alone was worth many times the 23 cents it cost to produce the brochure. Plus, the quality of the brochure would continue to make guests feel valued for years to come and much more likely to return?

This "big picture view" is what Disney has pretty much gotten away from. When everything has to be justified individually instead of as part of a whole package, we end up with things like 1) generic, low quality merchandise that has little, if any, emotional value to the consumer 2) a dining plan that is constantly being modified by reducing food quality, quantity and innovation while at the same time increasing the price and 3) rides and attractions that take longer and longer to create/replace/refurbish than they should because Disney is no longer willing to pay the costs to speed up the processes.

Frankly, I'm somewhat amazed that the Magic Your Way pricing structure is still with us and Magical Express is still "free". But then, it's generally obvious to any person with half a brain that these two things pretty much get and keep more "heads in beds". So maybe even the Disney MBAs still "get it" with those - but I fear we're only one myopic decision away from that changing as well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled dining plan thread.:mickey:

Steve

[LoveofEVERYTHINGDisney]

We've always used the DDP and I've never added up the receipts of our meals. I wouldn't doubt that we 'lose' money by doing DDP but then again, I would never eat at most of those restaurants if I had to pay out of pocket.
We have plans to eat at Le Cellier when we visit in May. Those steak prices are pretty high and I am sure if I had to shell out $150.00 for dinner - I wouldn't do it. In my case 'ignorance is bliss'. I also like not having to budget for eating in the parks - that money has long ago been spent. Honestly, it is a "to each its own" philosophy.

[TheVBs]

The fuss about the free dining offer not being free (or in reality, the best discount) because you're paying rack rate depends on where you're staying and how many people are in your party.

For us, a party of 4 staying at a value, the room discount does not save us as much as the free dining plan discount. So, yes, you have to run the numbers both ways and figure out where you come out ahead. But, you can't tell people they're not saving money with free dining in every circumstance.

We would never pay for the dining plan. We have always come out ahead by paying out of pocket and eating our way, where and when we want.

[BrerGnat]

For us, a party of 4 staying at a value, the room discount does not save us as much as the free dining plan discount.

This is a good example, and yes, it is true in this particular circumstance. At a Value resort, with 4 adults, Free Dining was a steal!

That's why Disney changed it to only the QUICK SERVICE dining plan attached to the Values for the Free Dining Promotion. It was TOO good a deal for a short period of time, and Disney realized it. Disney is counting on the fact that many people who choose a value resort will upgrade to the regular DDP for additional $$$. And, I bet many people do!

Disney can't stand to see people getting a deal. The only time they are okay with it is when there's something in it for them. For example, the Armed Forces Salute discount is a GREAT deal for those who can take advantage of it (we have used it for our last few trips). This is a "good will" discount from Disney, but it paints a nice PR picture as well, and puts the parks in reach of a population who might otherwise not be able to afford to go, so it creates repeat business over time. This one is a win-win.

[SBETigg]

This "big picture view" is what Disney has pretty much gotten away from. When everything has to be justified individually instead of as part of a whole package, we end up with things like 1) generic, low quality merchandise that has little, if any, emotional value to the consumer 2) a dining plan that is constantly being modified by reducing food quality, quantity and innovation while at the same time increasing the price and 3) rides and attractions that take longer and longer to create/replace/refurbish than they should because Disney is no longer willing to pay the costs to speed up the processes.

Steve

Good points, Steve, and what a shame. I have used the Dining Plan, but this is also what I hate about it, that it has reduced food quality and innovation while increasing price. The restaurant seats are being filled, and it feels like that is all they care about. Disney dining used to be a lot more fun for me, with more creative menus, consistent quality, and the ability to pop in without ADRs. I still enjoy it, but it's not what it used to be.

[Fangorn]

Disney dining used to be a lot more fun for me, with more creative menus, consistent quality, and the ability to pop in without ADRs.

Absolutely. The first time we used the DDP was back when appetizer and tip was still included. The biggest draw for us wasn't the cost savings (which did exist) but the perceived luxury and fun of trying new dishes at new places that we probably wouldn't have done otherwise. It was at this time that we discovered that the appetizers are often better than the entrees

Now, generally, each location has one chicken dish, one fish dish and one steak - which differ only by the spices used. Even the desserts are boring. Need a 'signature' dessert? Just add an appropriate flavor to the creme brule (maple at Le Cellier, Key Lime at Narcosseess, coconut at Kona Cafe...) and voila!

It just seems sad to me that what used to be a nice part of the overall Disney experience has become significantly less magical. It's not that the dining is bad, but it's just so bland anymore.

Steve

[Davy Crockett]

Okay I'll beat this dead horse a little :beat: I am a "bean counter" / CPA in my real life and I analyze every plan down to sales tax and gratuity each time before making reservations or helping friends make reservations and at least for the past 3 to 5 years the "discount" given whether it be Free Dining or Room discounts or Kids stay and play for free it comes out to be about the same. The "X factor" variable here which makes the value greater is the number of family members and your personal preferences (type of dining you like and where you like to stay). If you are a family of 5 then the dining plan or stay and play for free would calculate to a better value than the room discount, BUT if you are a smaller family of 2 or 3 or have childern under 3 then the room discount would be more heavily weighted. The average "discount" from running the numbers seems to always fall in the $1,200 to $1,500 dollar range IF you stay in the range of 6 to 9 days. The Disney Thinktank of Actuaries and Statisticians has all of this calculated way before they release to the public and know which demographic they are targeting to fill beds or fill restaurants. And the Disney Marketing team is world class at making you feel great making your purchasing decision. My advice spend the time to build you a spread sheet and actually add up all the cost (Room, Tickets & Dining) TS = $Tips, Rooms and two different taxes added but not shown when booking, Tips for Cast Members at your resort (bell service and cleaning) Tickets get cheaper the longer you stay and see which plan offers the best deal for you and your family. Have a good understanding of the "True" cost of your vacation before you go not after.

[AJ Springfield]

We have never bought the DDP because I didn't see the benefits -- why pay ahead to just break even at best??

I seriously considered it in 2010 and thought that --if we work it just right-- we can come out ahead. But then I thought that I don't want to WORK at getting the most from the plan- I just want to go where I want to and eat what I want to. The price quoted online WAS NOT what was offered when I called the 407WDISNEY line. They said that it makes it a "package" and packages have different taxes and so forth. When we went to WDW that year I kept every receipt and was happy to confirm my suspicions that we came out ahead by paying out of pocket.

[mook3y]

For my family, we were already planning on going in Sept/Oct. Had they of not offered free dining, we were still going to go.

We had decided that we would pass on the DDP this year and just eat CS meals this time with the exception of a couple of TS meals. We know that it would be cheaper for us to do that than to pay out of pocket for the DDP. Mainly because we would split an appetizer and would never order each of us our own dessert.

The "free dining" will save us money considering the time of year we are going and it is the only offered savings.

We did up grade 2 of our 3 kids to adults so that they could order anything they want at dinner. They are not fond of the kids meals that are offered. For the just over $20 charge each for a 13 day trip, that is a great deal.

As stated :beat:. It really comes down to family preferences, family size and when you are travelling.

I definitely would rather get a 40% room discount in spring at the POLY like we did in 2010 :) and pay out of pocket for meals.

But I am not turning down the free dining in Sept/Oct!