Are Points Points? and other dumb Newbie questions

[The Hitchhiking Ghost]

Not sure where to start. The DW has been nagging/harping/encouraging, not sure the right term, about taking our next Disney trip. We are older parents (40's) who recently expanded our family from 2 to 5. So our Disney expectations would be that we would have more interest in frequent visits to Disney over the next 20 years vs. the next 50. Where I'm going with this is that I'm toying with the idea of exploring DVC, specifically new vs. resale, and had some questions.

As an example, I think 200 points would be about what we'd want to purchase. Looking at OKW resale it looks like I could get that for $11-12,000 but if I had to do BLT (not sure what the exact pt cost is) my guess is those same points would cost me around $24,000. Now I know two specific things.
-on a resale like OKW I'm buying 30 years and not 50.
-that starting with 2011 resale benefits are different than new sales.

So. here are some of my questions:

-points are points, right? If I buy 200 at BLT or OKW, as far as usage goes, they are the same? I know it might cost me more points to stay at XXX DVC resort vs. YYY DVC resort for the same period, but the actual points used are the same? Not sure if I'm saying that right.

-Has anyone on these boards bought resale? And if so, assuming its allowed to post, is there a recommendation for reputable resale company? I know Intercot advertises a DVC resaler, but a simple Google search reveals many sellers and lots of listings.

-I know that DVC is a depreciable asset. With the 50 year sunset dates, the value I assume rarely, if ever goes up. Have you noticed if resale prices, especially with this economy, have been trending up/down or stable? How about the number of listings (seems like there are a lot)?

-What is your opinion (always looking for feedback). Considering the DW and I would be in our 90's by the time a BLT DVC expired, I'm not as concerned about buying a resale with only 30 years left, and obviously the upfront cost would be less.

This wasn't even on our radar a month ago, then friends from church mention they are going down to their DVC resort (BC) and then DW starts talking about next trip and then I start mulling all the options then get stuck thinking this could be an option.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[dizneydeb22]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I can answer one or two.

We recently purchased points at SSR. We purchased directly from Disney because of the incentive they were running. In addition to the points we purchased for 2012, we also were able to receive the points for 2011. As for resale, I can only say compare the current incentives against what you are paying. And since Disney has changed their policy in regards to points purchased resale, see if that affects you also. It pretty much just has to do with using your points for other than DVC resorts.

We are also older parents(40's) of a 12 year old. We are able to will our ownership to him. I do not know if you can do that resale, but I can't imagine any reason why you wouldn't be able to.
Good Luck with your decision making. I hope I helped a little.

[faline]

Yes - points are points regardless of whether you use them at Old Key West or Bay Lake Tower.

We bought resale through Intercot's Sponsor, The Timeshare Store (http://www.dvc-resales.com/). It was very easy and we were walked through each step, once we identified a property we were interested in and decided to make an offer.

Our points are at Old Key West. Since purchasing, I spent a few nights in a two bedroom at Bay Lake Tower with my daugher; 10 nights in a one bedroom at Animal Kingdom Jambo House with my husband; and a week in a two bedroom at Old Key West with my husband and my brother's family. We are booked into a one bedroom at the Beach Club for an upcoming trip.

[DizneyRox]

1. Yes, points are points in terms of what you are saying.
2. DVC is just like any other property. Reslae is a great value if you want my opinion. Disney tried to develop the right of first refusal idea to articifially keep prices high. If someone was dumping points, then Disney can just buy them, which is supposed to help them maintain value, however this isn't working. Disney has too much inventory. I would id low on a listing, if you are looking. Asking price is just like that of a house, just a suggestion. wishful thinking might be more appropriate.
3. Agree, but look at maintenance costs, and also the lack of options on reslae points (like cruises, etc when making a decision. You can buy OKW from Disney and get those benefits if you wanted to, albeit at much higher prices than resale.


Make sure you are figuring point requirements right. You want at least a 1 BR with a family that size, and 2BR would be ideal. i'd make sure if you needed more points, like your first choice isn't available, and that means resort, vacation time, and accomodations, you have enough to do what you want.

[MinnieMommie]

If you plan to visit Disney at least once a year and stay in a delux DVC is a good option. We bought directly from DVC but with the enormous disparity in price between resale and DVC I would seriously consider resale at this time. The only thing about resale is how you can use your points. If you plan to only go to Disney with your points then that id another reason to go resale market.

Yes points are points. The difference is that with your home resort you can book your vacation within 11 months of your vacation date. In order to book at a non home resort you can not book until 7 months prior to your vacation date. This is referred to as the 11 month and 7 month window, Just know that you may not be able to get the resort you want at the 7 month window. Your chances of securing what you want at 7 months will be variable. My advice is that you select a home resort you like and will enjoy staying at in the event you are not able to get a preferable resort at the 7 month window.

[Ian]

-points are points, right? If I buy 200 at BLT or OKW, as far as usage goes, they are the same? I know it might cost me more points to stay at XXX DVC resort vs. YYY DVC resort for the same period, but the actual points used are the same? Not sure if I'm saying that right.I would guess you're already aware of the booking window differences, but just in case ... the only real difference in points is that you can book at your home resort (i.e. the resort where you own your points) at 11 months out. At any other resort you have to wait until 7 months out. That's the real reason to buy where you want to stay.


-Has anyone on these boards bought resale? And if so, assuming its allowed to post, is there a recommendation for reputable resale company? I know Intercot advertises a DVC resaler, but a simple Google search reveals many sellers and lots of listings.I'm not one to shill for INTERCOT's sponsors unless I think they're worthy and I will say this about The Timeshare Store ... I personally know around a half dozen people who have purchased from them and every single one of them has raved about their experience. I wouldn't hesitate to use them and really ... using them does benefit the site so why not?


-I know that DVC is a depreciable asset. With the 50 year sunset dates, the value I assume rarely, if ever goes up. Have you noticed if resale prices, especially with this economy, have been trending up/down or stable? How about the number of listings (seems like there are a lot)?There is no doubt that since the housing market melted down DVC prices have been pummeled. Typically, though, prices have steadily increased throughout the years, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that this trend will continue once the economy fully rebounds. That being said, it's most definitely not an investment. You should assume you're spending your money to buy the resort stays and nothing more. If, at some point, you're able to sell and recoup some of your money then that's just a plus. Although keep in mind you can rent your points if you want to.


-What is your opinion (always looking for feedback). Considering the DW and I would be in our 90's by the time a BLT DVC expired, I'm not as concerned about buying a resale with only 30 years left, and obviously the upfront cost would be less.You could look at some of the interim resorts between OKW and BLT? Some of those still have 40+ years left on their contracts, so might not be a bad option. But in general, I'd say to buy resale. I don't think the recent change in resale rules is that big a deal unless you really planned on trying to use your points at non-DVC properties. Also, just something to consider ... buying resale you have to either arrange your own financing or pay cash so make sure you're in a position to do one of those two things before making a decision one way or another.

[GAN]

There is no doubt that since the housing market melted down DVC prices have been pummeled. Typically, though, prices have steadily increased throughout the years, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that this trend will continue once the economy fully rebounds. That being said, it's most definitely not an investment. You should assume you're spending your money to buy the resort stays and nothing more. If, at some point, you're able to sell and recoup some of your money then that's just a plus. Although keep in mind you can rent your points if you want to.



Ian makes all great points. In regards to the value -yes the market has definitely hurt value the last few years. But I'm all right with that because I've been able to rent my points 3 out of the 6 years we've owned -which has more than covered all maintenance costs. We are happy going every other year or so. We've made 4 trips(including the one this summer coming up) staying primarily in 1-2 BR suites. So all I'm in it for is the value that has been lost(which may go up -but I doubt with all the new rooms being built) and the "interest" lost because of the initial cash layout ..if you want to throw that in there. But hey ...the initial $12k I invested probably would have made me either nothing or very little over the last 6 years so I see it as a near wash. I'm very happy with the decision and if we sold tomorrow at the going rate, I'd say we got a steal.

[Hammer]

I am another one who recommends buying resale, as that is what I did. However, I say that the "buy where you want to stay" argument only works if you are planning to book before the 7 month mark or you plan for a longer stay. For me, I never book before the 7 month mark and I stay no more than 5 nights at a time, so where my points were located didn't really matter. For the record, I haven't had any problem having my choice of places to stay for my trips, be it 1 or 2 bedrooms. This is with making the request for a handicap accessible room to accommodate my Mom.




I'm not one to shill for INTERCOT's sponsors unless I think they're worthy and I will say this about The Timeshare Store ... I personally know around a half dozen people who have purchased from them and every single one of them has raved about their experience. I wouldn't hesitate to use them and really ... using them does benefit the site so why not?


A very satisfied Timeshare Store customer here! I used them for both of my resale purchases and they were so easy to work with throughout the process. And like Ian said, bonus that using them helps the site!

[Aurora]

From what you described as your interests -- taking trips for the next 20 years or so and staying only at Disney -- resale would be the way to go, probably at OKW, Boardwalk, Wilderness or Beach Club, as those all have fewer years on their contracts. (Except, as someone stated above, if you're buying OKW, you'd want a contract without the 15-year extension).

If you're not planning on making ressies before the 7-month mark, and you don't really care which DVC you stay at, I'd pick the resort with the lowest dues rates at the moment. Of course, there's no guarantee they'd stay the lowest, but you'd get that advantage to begin with, at least.

You might hear that you can't use resale points to stay anywhere but DVC. Right now, that's not true. DVC has a current agreement with RCI, Club Cordial and Club Intrawest, so you CAN use resale points to stay at their resorts. (I should emphasize the words "right now." You can't expect that DVC will always partner with these groups, because that has changed in the past.)

To be clear, you CANNOT use resale points for a Disney Cruise, or to stay at Disney resorts that are NOT DVC, such as the Polynesian or Port Orleans, and for individual resorts and packages that Disney calls the Concierge and Adventurer collections.

If you buy points directly from Disney you CAN use your points for all these things. However, many people don't, because the value of the points is much less when you use them this way.

[MarkC]

Another happy Timeshare Store customer here. I would weigh your options carefully. First, I've never talked to anyone who thought they had too many points, only those like me who don't have enough. I also agree on buying where you like to stay most, which is why we bought resale at Beach Club.

The main question now is buying resale at a discount or buying direct from Disney. We recently took a Disney cruise, and anyone who takes one will want to take several more. If you buy resale you won't be able to use your points forthat, so that's something only YOU can decide. It depends on your finances, trip habits, etc. But regardless what you choose, I heartily recommend owning DVC. Good luck.:mickey:

[The Hitchhiking Ghost]

Thanks for the help everyone, this has been very informative. I can understand why Disney would start eliminating options and I do need to think about the resort stays/cruising as an option not available with points if I go resale. I certainly could see in the future just my DW and I wanting to go and stay the Poly or even now she is trying to convince me for a Jan 2013 Disney Cruise -- I'm moving away from my computer in case lightning strikes, but I prefer the value of Royal Caribbean especially with a family of 5 but that isn't going over to well at the moment.


Am I doing the math right when I figure out the cost of a DVC vacation?

For nice round numbers assume I can somehow get 300 points at OKW for $50 a point (ignoring for now closing costs etc.)

So that would be $15,000 divided by remaining 30 years = $500 a year divided by 300 points = a per point cost of $1.66 and then add to that annual maintenance fee of $4.98 p/pt means that each point has a value of $6.65.

So if I go at the cheapest level for a 1 bedroom its a weekly pt rate of 157. So do I go 157x6.65 for a vacation comparison total of $1,044 for an average nightly rate of about $150. Which I think would be about 1/2 off a 30% discounted OKW nightly rate.

Does that sound right? Seems like a pretty good value with that comparison, granted I'm guessing I wouldn't get OKW at $50 a pt, but still..


I think we'd be trying to get into OKW or AKL as they seem to be the more affordable resale that allows for 5 in a 1 Bdr. We survived POR-AB last year with 5 of us, so am thinking a 1 Bdr DVC villa would still be ok for a while.

Figuring out how to pay for it, well there's the real question:confused:

Thanks for the help.

[Ian]

A couple things I'll say in response to your last post ...

Some people may disagree with me, but I think cruising is a horrible way to use your points. The point costs are absurd. If you had 300 points you'd basically use them all up just to take a 5-7 night cruise. And even 300 might not be enough depending on what type of cabin you booked. I agree with you ... Royal Caribbean or NCL or another cruise line like that is just a better value all around. We love Disney, but we cruise NCL.

In regards to the dollar figures you used, you're basically in the right ballpark. The only thing to remember is that your annual dues and maintenance costs are going to rise at a fairly predictable 4% a year, so you have to factor that in.

[DizneyRox]

Not sure who would disagree with the cruise value statement... Your money will certainly go further on a non Disney cruise.

The argument is, well, I paid for the points. YOu did, but your points actually would go further if you rented them out and used that money to pay for a Disney cruise.

Also, the point cost for a cruise can change. So, 300 points might get two of you on a cruise this year, next year, maybe not. At some point, it might not even get one of you on a cruise.

Staying ANYWHERE but DVC is a bad use of points. Some are worse than others, and using them for a Disney cruise is probably the worst. Well, maybe staying at a regular Disney resort, some of those point costs are just crazy. I think it cost us more points to stay at the Grand Floridian for 2 nights a while back than it did for us to stay at the Beach Club for a week!

[Aurora]

I certainly could see in the future just my DW and I wanting to go and stay the Poly or even now she is trying to convince me for a Jan 2013 Disney Cruise ...

This is only conjecture, but there are a select group of people (you know who you are ;) ) who would bet money that DIsney will build DVC rooms at the Poly sooner or later. There are a lot of good reasons to believe this will happen (and some to believe it won't). Just more food for thought.

[The Hitchhiking Ghost]

This is only conjecture, but there are a select group of people (you know who you are ;) ) who would bet money that DIsney will build DVC rooms at the Poly sooner or later. There are a lot of good reasons to believe this will happen (and some to believe it won't). Just more food for thought.

Excellent point Aurora, I've been thinking in terms of whats there, not what could be there in the next 30 years. Did I read correctly somewhere that they are doing DVC at Grand Floridean?

I've been able to locate decent info on the point charts and the seasons for the DVC resorts but I didn't have a reference for how many points a cruise or a resort like the Poly would cost in points. Sounds like unless it the exception to general usage, that using points for a non DVC resort is not financially the best usage of points, other than the argument "you've already paid for it".

Is Aulani part of DVC, so that if we bought resale we could use our points there, or is it excluded from resale buyers?

Thanks again for all the help, I'm getting a much better comfort level with the idea of going resale.

[Ian]

Did I read correctly somewhere that they are doing DVC at Grand Floridian?Yessir. It's opening late next year.


I've been able to locate decent info on the point charts and the seasons for the DVC resorts but I didn't have a reference for how many points a cruise or a resort like the Poly would cost in points.They're pretty readily available. Just Google "Disney Collection DVC Point Charts" and you should find them.


Is Aulani part of DVC, so that if we bought resale we could use our points there, or is it excluded from resale buyers?Aulani is a DVC resort, so yes ... you could use your points there.

[Aurora]

Excellent point Aurora, I've been thinking in terms of whats there, not what could be there in the next 30 years. Did I read correctly somewhere that they are doing DVC at Grand Floridean?


Yes, and you can expect more options in the future, although what and where is anyone's guess. But I personally have not been disappointed in the locations of the last three DVC openings and the next one -- Bay Lake Tower, Grand Californian, Aulani and now Grand Floridian.

And as you've seen in my post on the Accommodations board, I can't believe how much rack rates have gone up in the last several years. Even with Disney continuing to offer room discounts, the value of DVC keeps rising.

[The Hitchhiking Ghost]

They're pretty readily available. Just Google "Disney Collection DVC Point Charts" and you should find them.


Yowsers:jaw:

I found a 2010 point chart for the Poly covering the same time frame we'd normally go (value) and it was more than twice the point total!

I guess Scrooge McDuck must be assigning point totals down there. Disney must be laughing all the way to the bank any time someone uses DVC points at a general resort.

[TheDuckRocks]

Along with Grand California and Aulani don't forget the other 2 off property DVC resorts at Hilton Head Island and Vero Beach where you could use reslale points.

[FantasmicJ]

Can anyone give me an idea of what $$ amount Disney is selling their points for currently? I'd be interested in AKV or BLT.

Thanks!

[DizneyRox]

AKL @ $125 per point
BLT @ $155 per point

Found using Google...

[FantasmicJ]

Thanks DisneyRox!