Fastpass Changes In March

[DizneyFreak2002]

Starting in March, Disney will be strictly enforcing the return time window on Fastpasses... 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after will be the cut off times... People returning after those times will be denied Fastpass access... This is in response to getting the system ready for the Next Gen portion of Fastpass...

[Melanie]

This was supposedly the case last fall. :confused: We'll see if they actually go through with this.

And 5 minutes BEFORE? When have they ever let folks in 30 seconds before the time window?

[Katzateer]

And 5 minutes BEFORE? When have they ever let folks in 30 seconds before the time window?

So true!

[BrerGnat]

I'll believe it when I see it.

And yeah, I have NEVER been allowed access to a FP return even ONE minute early.

[disneymom15]

I'll believe it when I see it.

And yeah, I have NEVER been allowed access to a FP return even ONE minute early.

Ditto.

[faline]

IAnd yeah, I have NEVER been allowed access to a FP return even ONE minute early.

Even when their clocks are wrong!

[SuzieBell]

This was supposedly the case last fall. :confused: We'll see if they actually go through with this.

And 5 minutes BEFORE? When have they ever let folks in 30 seconds before the time window?

Really! We were made to wait to the EXACT time on BTMR! And it was empty!

[waymickey]

What is the next gen fastpass going to be like? I hope they don't go and ruin a perfectly good system. I have been allowed to enter a ride before my fastpass but only after standing and staring at the CM. I think I creeped them out and they just let me through so I would stop staring at them.

[kakn7294]

I'm not worried about the 5 min early because we've never been admitted early but I'm not liking the 15 min after part. We often show up late for our FP return time.

[joanna71985]

About time!

[WDWdriver]

It's true. The "good-all-day" FP policy is coming to an end. I don't know for sure about the five minutes early part, but enforcing the end-of-window time is definitely in the works. It is the topic of a lot of backstage conversations.

BTW, when this is implemented you can expect delays and congestion at the FastPass Return entrance. Currently we only have to glance at the first time on the FP. But after this goes into effect the CMs will have to examine both return window times on each FP and then do the math to determine if the FP is still valid. This will be very time consuming.

[Jared]

It's true. The "good-all-day" FP policy is coming to an end. I don't know for sure about the five minutes early part, but enforcing the end-of-window time is definitely in the works. It is the topic of a lot of backstage conversations.

BTW, when this is implemented you can expect delays and congestion at the FastPass Return entrance. Currently we only have to glance at the first time on the FP. But after this goes into effect the CMs will have to examine both return window times on each FP and then do the math to determine if the FP is still valid. This will be very time consuming.
Just confirming Ron's post. This is true. And I am completely fine with the change. The Fastpass system works better when everyone uses it as it was designed.

[Melanie]

It's true. The "good-all-day" FP policy is coming to an end. I don't know for sure about the five minutes early part, but enforcing the end-of-window time is definitely in the works. It is the topic of a lot of backstage conversations.

BTW, when this is implemented you can expect delays and congestion at the FastPass Return entrance. Currently we only have to glance at the first time on the FP. But after this goes into effect the CMs will have to examine both return window times on each FP and then do the math to determine if the FP is still valid. This will be very time consuming.

Thank you so much for the confirmation Ron. Never know what to believe on the Twitters. ;)

I'm okay with implementing this, but I hope it will be discussed how to handle those who aren't. I can see as much congestion at the entrance from trying to calm a group who is told they can't ride as I can from the CMs checking return times. It's not right for folks to get upset, but I do think it will happen. :unsure:

[CajunDisneyDad]

I am glad they are finally getting strict with this. Few things are more annoying than during evening EMH when you have a trong of people suddenly want to use thier fast passes for say Soaring or TSMM... I always believed that all fastpasses should be null and voided after regular park operating hours anyway lol.

[Mousemates]

guess we'll get to see the chaos first hand when we drive down in march. Should make for some "exciting times" at the fastpass entrances when the family that made a dash for spacemountain passes doesn't get back in time after a long wait for Peter Peter. Fast PAss CMs will have some long days.

[BrerGnat]

Thank you so much for the confirmation Ron. Never know what to believe on the Twitters. ;)


Or the Facebooks.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't Disney just invent a machine that takes the FP when you return, and determines if it is valid or not? If they are going to enforce this policy, why not have something in place to make it black and white?

[dnickels]

Or the Facebooks.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't Disney just invent a machine that takes the FP when you return, and determines if it is valid or not? If they are going to enforce this policy, why not have something in place to make it black and white?

I'm surprised they haven't done that as well. Just a turnstile with a reader system that accepts the FP and then either allows the turnstile to turn or doesn't. Basically just like the front gates entrances. This way the CM on location only has to get involved when someone manages to mess up and they don't spend all their time checking times.

[WDWdriver]

Or the Facebooks.

Hey, here's an idea, why doesn't Disney just invent a machine that takes the FP when you return, and determines if it is valid or not? If they are going to enforce this policy, why not have something in place to make it black and white?

Good point. Actually, there is a lot of talk about bar coding, imbedded chips, RFID tags, etc. We are likely to see this later as NextGen is implemented.

[TinkerbellT421]

Now, what happens when a ride goes down? For instance when we were there in January, we got a Fast Pass for Splash Mountain, we came back right when our fast pass started and then the ride was down for four hours after that until they finally got it back up and running. The CM said that the fast pass was good till park close because the ride was down for so long. But now what happens? I would be LIVID if my fast pass was no good because THEIR ride broke down? :mad:

[c&d]

I'm happy with this and with the new credit card on certain dining reservations. Speaking for myself I'm one who follows the rules and others being made to follow them really doesn't bother me. I'll get off my :soapbox:

[Melanie]

Now, what happens when a ride goes down? For instance when we were there in January, we got a Fast Pass for Splash Mountain, we came back right when our fast pass started and then the ride was down for four hours after that until they finally got it back up and running. The CM said that the fast pass was good till park close because the ride was down for so long. But now what happens? I would be LIVID if my fast pass was no good because THEIR ride broke down? :mad:

This type of thing is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. Seems like there is going to have to be some leeway given, and if not, lots of disclaimers on the back of the FP.

[ChipNDale79]

I'm not sure I like this, sometimes things happen and you cant make it back in time for your window, I understand some people say that's your lose. My problem with that is I've already "waited in line" for the ride and have not been able to get another fast pass during that time frame.

To me it seems that Disney is headed in the direction that everything has to be planned out before you hit the park, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. :mad:

The system works great as it is now.

[TinkerbellT421]

This type of thing is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. Seems like there is going to have to be some leeway given, and if not, lots of disclaimers on the back of the FP.

Right. DBF and I have never made it back to a ride out side of our fast pass time. We always stick to the fast pass time. We literally stood outside Splash mountain at one point for 20 minutes waiting for the ride to start back up but it was literally down for four hours, to now fault of ours. Finally it was up and running and we were the first people on the first boat, but at that point it was two hours after our fast pass expired. I wouldn't argue with a CM if it was our fault because we had dining reservations or something. But if a ride goes down like Splash Mountain, what happens, they just tell you you wasted a fast pass even though it was their fault? I'm all about people not being able to get on a ride because they went to an ADR during their FP time. In fact on one occassion we went to Soarin' and the FP time was between 6:40 - 7:40, 6:50 was an ADR we had and knew we wouldn't be back in time for the 7:40 return time. So we didn't get it.

[wdwfansince75]

Ah, a whole new phenomenon...Ride Rage!

Anger, like other emotions, is contagious. Pity the poor CM's during the early days of the new practice. And consiously or unconsiously, some will vent in an effort to be rewarded with special fast passes, or free meals, or some other undeserved reward.

Many people already think that returning within the window is the rule. Enforcing a stated policy, as opposed to continuing to allow the current practice, has always been a perogative of Disney's. I, for one, will adjust, and figure out a new plan to minimize queue times...

[PopPhan]

Gotta rant about this one a bit....

I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about....The Fastpass has a ONE HOUR window for use. If someone cannot plan to be at the attraction within that hour (plus 15 minutes?) why should they be allowed to use the FastPass line?

All the comments about waiting in other lines seems, to me, to be ridiculous. If you have a time to be somewhere, then you get out of the line you are in and go....If you are in a restaurant and the start time of your FastPass comes up, you still have an hour...If you are going to get a FastPass knowing that you are going to be in a restaurant at a time within the FastPass window, just don't....

I would never think of trying to use a FastPass outside the window on the ticket. If the window expired, I would, and have, just trashed the ticket and gotten in the regular line. My mistake, why should anyone else have to pay for it by waiting longer.

[WDW-fanatic]

They should have enforced this from the start. It will be interesting to see how people who have been told repeatedly by cast members over the past years that they could return after the return time, will react once they are told they can no longer return after the return time. I hope they make it clear to people when they get the fastpass and not just wait for them to find out while trying to use the fastpass after the return time. We had missed our return window due to an extremely inaccurate posted wait time. We’ve also missed our window for return when rides we were on broke down and we were stuck for 45 mins. while they came to escort us off the ride. I will have to remember to pay better attention to wait times for rides we plan to ride while we wait for our return time to come around and make sure we aim for using the fast pass earlier in the hour window instead of later.

[ChipNDale79]

So i guess everyone is ok with having to plan every detail of your trip out.

I don't like the direction disney is going with "windows" and ADRs. You already have to make ADRs 6 months in advance to make sure you get what you want.

I think the window option will work on things like BTMR, or SM. Its TSMM or Soarin that i can foresee a problem with. If you get there at park opening and get back to the FP machines the first option to get a FP may actually be 4 or 6pm in the afternoon.

To me that tells me something isnt right with the system, if I want to use my FP then I literally have to plan the rest of my day around that window.

Either way, I know i'll get flamed for my opinion on this, this is a very sensitive subject to some people.

[hokies4life]

I'm sure we might feel differently if we had a larger party to coordinate with or children, but I don't really mind. We've always looked at the fastpass time and decided whether we would be able to be at the attraction at the starting time. If not exactly at the starting time then would we definitely be able to make it by the ending time. If neither of those we didn't get it. I understand they've been making exceptions but to me we've always gone with the original idea that between those two times are when we're supposed to return. Usually we're so anxious to use it that we're waiting outside for 10 minutes just for our time to come.

[caryrae]

Gotta rant about this one a bit....

I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about....The Fastpass has a ONE HOUR window for use. If someone cannot plan to be at the attraction within that hour (plus 15 minutes?) why should they be allowed to use the FastPass line?

All the comments about waiting in other lines seems, to me, to be ridiculous. If you have a time to be somewhere, then you get out of the line you are in and go....If you are in a restaurant and the start time of your FastPass comes up, you still have an hour...If you are going to get a FastPass knowing that you are going to be in a restaurant at a time within the FastPass window, just don't....

I would never think of trying to use a FastPass outside the window on the ticket. If the window expired, I would, and have, just trashed the ticket and gotten in the regular line. My mistake, why should anyone else have to pay for it by waiting longer.

I agree. In all the times we have been to WDW we have never had a problem using a FP with in the window and if we miss the window no big deal.

[BrerGnat]

What would make this change infinitely better would be if they would allow you to obtain more than one FP at a time.

[PirateLover]

Not sure how to feel. There was a time when we did not know that your fastpass was honored after the window had "expired." it is NOT that easy to always make sure you are back in time. Sometimes, for the most popular rides On crowded days (TSM in particular) you can't control what time your fastpass is. You can't say "oh this time is no good for me so I'll get one later" because there might not be any later. Our lives at WDW became a lot less stressful once we discovered (via Intercot!) that there was leeway in the return time. Before that, we sometimes had to rush through dinner, run from across the park, had to forego seeing certain shows or riding rides because otherwise we wouldn't make it back in time. If we missed the window, we didn't ride. That being said, once we learned of the leniency we never abused it. We usually did return within the window, and the longest we returned afterwards was probably an hour. I guess I can understand the need/want to enforce it, but as Mel said, they are going to have to make exceptions or else end up with a lot of angry guests.

[FriendsofMickey]

The way I look at is Fast pass is a perk, Disney can do with it what they like. If you don't like the policy of the fast pass, then don't use it. Just stand in line and wait. That is what you would do at a lot of other parks.

We never used FP for years, we saw no need for it. The need for us happened after we had children.

I do feel bad for the CMs, because they are going to be the ones that are yelled and screamed at.

We spend a lot of time in the parks (at least once a year - 10 days usually minimum), I have had things come up that made us miss the window. At first, we would just toss the tickets, but then was told by a CM to use them anyway. So, there have been a couple of times where we have got there late (not sure it was more than 15 minutes), but have used them.
I'm happy to know that it is changing, so I do not show up late and expect to get on. However, I do not feel that Disney is doing this to cause me hardship in anyway.

I also think that if your missing the window is a fault of Disney, they will make it right. Not sure how, but I am sure they will have that all thought out.

[sportsguy2315]

I agree. In all the times we have been to WDW we have never had a problem using a FP with in the window and if we miss the window no big deal.

Exactly. When I was on my CP I would often tell guests that if for some reason they missed the window to not panic and that the FP would be valid and waiting for them once they were done up until park closing time, especially if they would be cutting it close with a dining reservation.

Now, I hope Disney's ready for the backlash on this one, because to have a policy that favors the guest for 13 years and to suddenly put it in Disney's favor won't go over well with most.

[JabberJaws]

I think the biggest problem with this isn't the policy itself, it is that Disney allowed the leeway with the end times to begin with. If the program has been operated as was originally intended, strictly enforcing both the start AND the end times, then this wouldn't be a problem. Problem is now, people are used to there being effectively no end time, despite the fact that this was not how the system was intended. Once people get used to something, it is MUCH harder to take it away.

That being said, I have on problem with them enforcing the policy. I've used FPs after the end time mostly because I knew I could. Now that I know I can't, I won't. That simple.

I know some are complaining about having to plan out every portion of your trip, but it is a reality. Somewhere as highly visited as WDW, this is just par for the course. Disney is just doing its best to manage the large crowds and make the guest experience as seamless as possible. I applaud them for taking these extra steps.

I am sure this will cause for lots of unhappy guests, especially at first. However, if it improves the FP system, I am all for it.

[kakn7294]

So i guess everyone is ok with having to plan every detail of your trip out.

I don't like the direction disney is going with "windows" and ADRs. You already have to make ADRs 6 months in advance to make sure you get what you want.

I think the window option will work on things like BTMR, or SM. Its TSMM or Soarin that i can foresee a problem with. If you get there at park opening and get back to the FP machines the first option to get a FP may actually be 4 or 6pm in the afternoon.

To me that tells me something isnt right with the system, if I want to use my FP then I literally have to plan the rest of my day around that window.

Either way, I know i'll get flamed for my opinion on this, this is a very sensitive subject to some people.I won't flame ya! I agree 100%. I hate making dining plans 6 months in advance and I hate being beholden to FP return times. We probably will actually use it less with the enforcement of return times. It's just not worth it to "reserve" my spot in line for most attractions if it means I have to run across the parks repeatedly.

[ChipNDale79]

The way I look at is Fast pass is a perk, Disney can do with it what they like. If you don't like the policy of the fast pass, then don't use it. Just stand in line and wait. That is what you would do at a lot of other parks.

It's one of the perks that makes Disney what they are, if I have to stand in line for 2 hours every time i want to ride something, then I wont go as often.

I've got a Theme Park less than 5 miles from my house, yet I drive 8 hours to go to Disney. Disney is heads and shoulders above other theme parks, and the FP system is one of the things that sets them aside from others.

[DisneyGirl85]

The way I look at is Fast pass is a perk, Disney can do with it what they like. If you don't like the policy of the fast pass, then don't use it. Just stand in line and wait. That is what you would do at a lot of other parks.

Exactly what I was thinking!!! I can't believe people are complaining about this. I have only used my fast passes in the time frame window that I was given. If I had dinner or had to leave the park before my fast pass time, then I would make someone else's day and give it to a stranger. The point of the Fast Pass is to be able to zip through the line. I have noticed over the past few times I have been there, that the fast pass lines have been longer than normal and now I know why. I think it's about time they do this. This will make the regular line go faster as well since it gets stopped every time someone with a fast pass comes along, which seems constant. We are lucky that they even offer fast passes.

[Ian]

I'm okay with implementing this, but I hope it will be discussed how to handle those who aren't.I'm okay with it, too, but here's my thing ... Disney better be smart about this and publicize it well. Yes, I know it was always supposed to be the policy, but everyone and their Grandmother knows it wasn't so you can't just all of a sudden change the rules on people without telling them.

If there's clear signage and some type of official announcement made, then it should cut down on the jibber-jabber and arguing at the FP checkpoints. But if they just all of a sudden go from how it is now on 2/29 to this new setup on 3/1 with no official word or any kind of announcement then yes ... there will be problems and they'll all be Disney's fault.

They consistently stink with implementing these types of policy changes.

[BrerSchultzy]

I will be okay with this....IF they allow you to pick a later time when you get the FP. For example, if we're in Tomorrowland at 10 AM, and the FPs for Buzz are at 1 or 2 (during our son's nap time), I would like the option of picking a later time when I get my FPs.
I am starting to worry that the "privileged" FPs are coming. You can pay a certain amount for certain FP perks, or only resort guests can get them, what have you. And if they do go back to a type of Ticket Book (which is essentially what paying for FPs leads to), they better lower the gate price.

[NASCARVW]

Heck,
I'm totally happy with this change...I always assumed that the time window on my FASTPASS meant just that...
...not valid after the time expired. To me there will be no difference in the way I handled the FP's.

I AM interested in the what the nextgen will be though...hmmmmm :)

[Figment!]

FastPass works best for everyone when the calculated number of Guests show up inside their allotted time window. If more Guests enter the FastPass queue than the calculated number (plus a small margin), it makes the FastPass and Stand-by wait times longer than intended.


What is the next gen fastpass going to be like? I

If the two new Fantasyland queue's are a hint, the Next Generation queue's may be queue-less.

It's been anticipated that (at least) part of the "Next Gen" project is to create a queue where groups of Guests are released into an area, have some form of interactive expereince, and then proceed to the ride.

For this type of system to work with FastPass, it would require the calculated number (or less) of Guests to show up in each window to keep a constant flow.

[ChipNDale79]

I will be okay with this....IF they allow you to pick a later time when you get the FP. For example, if we're in Tomorrowland at 10 AM, and the FPs for Buzz are at 1 or 2 (during our son's nap time), I would like the option of picking a later time when I get my FPs.
I am starting to worry that the "privileged" FPs are coming. You can pay a certain amount for certain FP perks, or only resort guests can get them, what have you. And if they do go back to a type of Ticket Book (which is essentially what paying for FPs leads to), they better lower the gate price.


This would work for me, I'd love to be able to pick a later time if I had the option.

[FriendsofMickey]

It's one of the perks that makes Disney what they are, if I have to stand in line for 2 hours every time i want to ride something, then I wont go as often.

I've got a Theme Park less than 5 miles from my house, yet I drive 8 hours to go to Disney. Disney is heads and shoulders above other theme parks, and the FP system is one of the things that sets them aside from others.

But they are not getting rid of the Fast Pass, they are still going to have the Perk. They are just going to enforce the end time policy. The enforcement of the end time should be something that is rarely needed in reality. I have never gotten a fast pass with the mission of ignoring the end time. It has happened that I was late, but it is rare and now if it happens I will just accept the fact that I missed out.

It is the same as if I had dining reservation and my child got sick, I cannot expect the restaurant to accept yesterdays reservation for today, because I had reservations the day before.

[FriendsofMickey]

FastPass works best for everyone when the calculated number of Guests show up inside their allotted time window. If more Guests enter the FastPass queue than the calculated number (plus a small margin), it makes the FastPass and Stand-by wait times longer than intended.



If the two new Fantasyland queue's are a hint, the Next Generation queue's may be queue-less.

It's been anticipated that (at least) part of the "Next Gen" project is to create a queue where groups of Guests are released into an area, have some form of interactive expereince, and then proceed to the ride.

For this type of system to work with FastPass, it would require the calculated number (or less) of Guests to show up in each window to keep a constant flow.

This sound very interesting! I cannot wait to witness it first hand!

[Stu29573]

I have to vote in favor of the change. I can count on one hand the times I've used a Fastpass beyond the window...and even then I felt a little "funny" about it! I think this might actually help for those attractions where the Fastpasses are gone instantly in the morning , but maybe not...

[MrPeetrie]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around what precipitated the NEED for a change in the first place. Was there an outcry for stricter times? Were people unhappy with the current system? I thought it was perfect.

On our prior trips, we always tried to adhere to the window. Sometimes, with young children, our plans would get changed. If we showed up after ou time slot, I would always ask "Is my FastPass still good?" if they were to say no, I'd have no problem. But when they'd say yes, subconsciously I'd say "Gotta love Disney. They accommodate their guests first." Why change that without a hue and cry for it?

[DizneyFreak2002]

To me it seems that Disney is headed in the direction that everything has to be planned out before you hit the park, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. :mad:

The system works great as it is now.

Disney are heading in that direction... The NextGen part of Fastpass will include reserving ride times at home when you book your vacation... Think of it as ADRs... And this enforcement (and it is about time too!!!) is to make sure this new NextGen Fastpass works the way it is supposed to.. Right now, FP does NOT work right... And yes, it is Disney's fault for not enforcing the time frames from the beginning...


So i guess everyone is ok with having to plan every detail of your trip out.

I don't like the direction disney is going with "windows" and ADRs. You already have to make ADRs 6 months in advance to make sure you get what you want.

I think the window option will work on things like BTMR, or SM. Its TSMM or Soarin that i can foresee a problem with. If you get there at park opening and get back to the FP machines the first option to get a FP may actually be 4 or 6pm in the afternoon.

To me that tells me something isnt right with the system, if I want to use my FP then I literally have to plan the rest of my day around that window.

Either way, I know i'll get flamed for my opinion on this, this is a very sensitive subject to some people.

No flaming... I don't like having to plan every minute of my vacation either... I hate the 6 month out window... Here is the great thing about this though, you don't have to use it... You can still choose to enjoy your vacation on the fly...

Once the ADR version of FP is implemented, I hope Disney puts restrictions on it... I hope they only allow 1, maybe 2 at the most FP reservations...

[jetsdc]

Let's not forget - the whole point of FP is to get you to skip the line when you return. If you come late, it throws the whole system off b/c more people will be accessing the queue than intended. This is one of the reasons WHY we often have to wait longer than expected even if you HAVE a FP.

It doesn't make sense to argue that this is being done to favor Disney at the guest's expense. If anything, it should enhance the guest experience if in fact you get through the FP line more quickly, as originally intended. I do agree that they will need to do a very good job of communicating the change, though.

[ChipNDale79]

No flaming... I don't like having to plan every minute of my vacation either... I hate the 6 month out window... Here is the great thing about this though, you don't have to use it... You can still choose to enjoy your vacation on the fly...

Sometimes if you dont make reservations six months out, its very hard to get the reservations you want. If you don't make reservations for table services, good luck eating what you want to. They are making it very hard to "wing it" now.

[PopPhan]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around what precipitated the NEED for a change in the first place. Was there an outcry for stricter times? Were people unhappy with the current system? I thought it was perfect.

There had/have been a number of people who would 'collect' FastPasses (even some - on this site - who proudly proclaimed that this was the way to go) and wait until late in the day, then ride everything they wanted just before closing time.

This meant that the FastPass collection and lines were skewed -- more people in the FastPass lines later in the day. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the FastPass distribution being used to 'smooth out' the waits for some ofthe busier/more popular rides and attractions.

As an earlier poster stated, this probably should have been enforced from the very beginning...

[dnickels]

If you are going to get a FastPass knowing that you are going to be in a restaurant at a time within the FastPass window, just don't....

:thumbsup:

This thread is so ripe for a First World Problems parody. :D

[DizneyFreak2002]

Sometimes if you dont make reservations six months out, its very hard to get the reservations you want. If you don't make reservations for table services, good luck eating what you want to. They are making it very hard to "wing it" now.

Counter service works for me... And there are plenty of places OFF property that are so much better, and cheaper, than a lot of the bland food served in WDW restaurants... I just leave the parks...

[MrPeetrie]

There had/have been a number of people who would 'collect' FastPasses (even some - on this site - who proudly proclaimed that this was the way to go) and wait until late in the day, then ride everything they wanted just before closing time.

This meant that the FastPass collection and lines were skewed -- more people in the FastPass lines later in the day. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the FastPass distribution being used to 'smooth out' the waits for some ofthe busier/more popular rides and attractions.

As an earlier poster stated, this probably should have been enforced from the very beginning...

I see. Apparently, the system was being abused in a way so now it needs to be corrected or adjusted. Thanks, PopPhan for the explanation.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I see. Apparently, the system was being abused in a way so now it needs to be corrected or adjusted. Thanks, PopPhan for the explanation.

Yes it was being abused... But this is more to getting things under control more for the new NextGen FP system, not so much cause the system was being abused... If Disney were not going to the new NextGen FP, they probably would allow people to continue to abuse the system...

[biodtl]

I think the biggest problem with this isn't the policy itself, it is that Disney allowed the leeway with the end times to begin with.
Exactly - I have never had a problem getting back in the FP window (except once where we were on an attraction that broke down), so to me, it seems like this will be a problem for the CMs more than guests. But it WILL be a problem for even the guests who have no problem with the policy if they are stuck waiting behind someone who wants to argue with the CM about it.


I'm okay with it, too, but here's my thing ... Disney better be smart about this and publicize it well.
Yep - they will need to have signs (and possibly CMs posted at the FP stations) letting people know. And I think that will only REDUCE complaints, rather than eliminate them. I have visions of disgruntled folks complaining to guest services & ending up getting rewarded, which defeats the whole purpose.


The NextGen part of Fastpass will include reserving ride times at home when you book your vacation
This sounds decidedly unfun. I don't have a problem with making ADRs, etc in advance, but this is a little much planning for me.

[gregf71]

Just to clarify, is this for all of the Disney parks? Disneyland and Disneyland Paris, etc. included? :confused:

[Ian]

FastPass works best for everyone when the calculated number of Guests show up inside their allotted time window. If more Guests enter the FastPass queue than the calculated number (plus a small margin), it makes the FastPass and Stand-by wait times longer than intended.If it does, it does so in a very small way. A few people here and there aren't going to make your wait time significantly longer. Not only that, but the one point that people consistently miss is that it also makes the wait times shorter for other people. If I'm not in the queue during my window because I come back later, that means you got on using your FP one "group" faster.

I think the impact from this whole "using FP after your window" brouhaha is DRAMATICALLY overblown.


It's been anticipated that (at least) part of the "Next Gen" project is to create a queue where groups of Guests are released into an area, have some form of interactive expereince, and then proceed to the ride. I don't get how this is Next Gen anything. This idea debuted about 25 years ago and is called "the pre-show."

You know, that thing just about every theme park goer in the world loathes? I'd rather stand in a queue than be subjected to any type of pre-show. :ack:

[joonyer]

Once a policy or rule has not been enforced for a while, many people began to think that they are "entitled" to violate the policy or rule, which can lead to a lot of problems when strict enforcement of the policy or rule is begun. For instance, there's a stop sign on my residential street, where almost none of the residents ever stopped completely)(me, too). For years, the police never patrolled the street or watched the sign. Guess what happened when a new officer decided to write tickets to folks who didn't stop there. Outrage at City Hall. "You should have warned us!", even though the stop sign clearly says "STOP" and everyone knows what it means.

I agree that publicity will be helpful, such as big signs at the FP kiosks which inform users that: "NOTICE: Fast passes WILL NOT be honored after the time printed on the pass"

Of course some will still complain, because even though FastPasses are free (even though Disney could easily charge for them), the rules should not apply to them (insert excuse here).

[MstngDrvnDsnyLvr]

Okay - so they are going to enforce something that should not have been allowed to be abused to begin with. I personally never did have an issue getting back to my FP time window. And if I didn't think that my park plans would match up to the FP times posted, I wouldn't get a FP.

As for the Next Gen FP and having to make FP ADRs in advanced of your trip....well, maybe that will free up the lines for those of us that like to wing it and find waiting in lines a fun, people watching experience.

[Goofster]

I've never been allowed to enter the FP line even one minute early. I've also never tried to use one after the time window, I assumed you couldn't. I've had quite a few expire and I didn't bother to use them.

[potzie]

My only concern is that they need to have a procedure in place to ensure that missed times due to technical malfunctions either on that ride or being stuck on another ride can be accommodated. If I miss my connecting flight because the first airplane broke down the airline will rebook. Disney treats their guests well and I have confidence that they will continue to, I just want to hear what their plan is in these situations.

[Figment!]

I don't get how this is Next Gen anything. This idea debuted about 25 years ago and is called "the pre-show." The difference is that it would be a fully Guest involved activity and not an observed show.

Concept art for Ariel's Undersea Adventure has depicted Guests going on a scavenger hunt to help Scuttle find "treasures" and it has been rumoured that Dumbo The Flying Elephant will include multiple circus themed activities for Guests to participate in.

[March Hare]

Sometimes if you dont make reservations six months out, its very hard to get the reservations you want. If you don't make reservations for table services, good luck eating what you want to. They are making it very hard to "wing it" now.

I think that enforcing the the time frame of a fastpass will be more of a benefit just like the credit card guarantee helps the dining. I just did a check for adrs for tonight and I have a choice of 64 out of 74 restaurants including 'Ohana and the California Grill and 65 out of 74 tomorrow which includes Le Cellier. I usually know where I want to eat at Disney at least one day in advance

If the fastpass system is done right the both lines will run faster. What backs up the stand by line is all the extra people in the fastpass line because they are there outside their time frame

[DizneyFreak2002]

I think that enforcing the the time frame of a fastpass will be more of a benefit just like the credit card guarantee helps the dining. I just did a check for adrs for tonight and I have a choice of 64 out of 74 restaurants including 'Ohana and the California Grill and 65 out of 74 tomorrow which includes Le Cellier. I usually know where I want to eat at Disney at least one day in advance

If the fastpass system is done right the both lines will run faster. What backs up the stand by line is all the extra people in the fastpass line because they are there outside their time frame

When I was there in October, I walked into Nine Dragons, no wait, no ADR, no worry... Maybe during the summer things are different, but I also never had an issue walking into a restaurant without an ADR...

Another thing people seem to be forgetting, there are "clocks" posted by the FP machines which tell the person getting the FP what window of time FP returns are... If you go to Splash Mountain and see the FP return time is 7:05 to 8:05, and you know you have a 6:45 or even a 7:00 ADR for Liberty Tree, then you don't get the FP.... Either wait on the stand by life if the ride is that important to you, or go back after the ADR to see if the stand by line wait time has diminished... And if you are held up because a ride goes down, and you miss your return time window, then again, wait on line... But I am willing to bet Disney institutes some sort of policy for the CMs to be able to use judgment if a ride goes down... Which means there will have to be communication to other CMs about such events... Which also means ***GASP*** communication in the work place... :)

[potzie]

If Disney really wanted to be special and not penalize those who commit to spending the money on a table service meal you could be given a pass at the restaurant to allow any fastpasses during your dining time to be extended. They currently offer Fantasmic packages to ensure that your dining doesn't interfere with what might be important to you so why not do the same? There can't possibly be enough people all leaving the restaurants at the same time to make a difference in the FP return lines. If I had a FP for TSM a notoriously lengthy wait time attraction and a dinner reservation made 6 months ago that's going to set my family back $100+ I shouldn't have to choose.

Otherwise they run the risk that people start looking to counterservice dining more to free up their time for attractions. If a 6pm ADR means I have to walk away from FP I just might rethink my dining, which Disney does not want to happen.

[DizneyFreak2002]

If Disney really wanted to be special and not penalize those who commit to spending the money on a table service meal you could be given a pass at the restaurant to allow any fastpasses during your dining time to be extended. They currently offer Fantasmic packages to ensure that your dining doesn't interfere with what might be important to you so why not do the same? There can't possibly be enough people all leaving the restaurants at the same time to make a difference in the FP return lines. If I had a FP for TSM a notoriously lengthy wait time attraction and a dinner reservation made 6 months ago that's going to set my family back $100+ I shouldn't have to choose.

Otherwise they run the risk that people start looking to counterservice dining more to free up their time for attractions. If a 6pm ADR means I have to walk away from FP I just might rethink my dining, which Disney does not want to happen.

Actually, you make a case FOR this change... And in reality, this will not have any impact on people making ADRs... if you rethink your dining because of this and don't book an ADR, 100 people after you will take your space...

Also, no one knows what they are actually implementing, only that they are going to be finally enforcing the times... If a family of 4 have FPs for Splash to return between 5:00 and 6:00 but have ADRs at Crystal Palace at 5:30, how do we know that the restaurant won't be giving them a slip to replace the current FP??? take a DVC tour, they give you three sheets of paper, a receipt really, for fast passes to any three rides, for one day, at any park, with NO return times... How do you know they won't be doing this at rides that break down or in restaurants??? We don't...

[Stickey]

Currently, the worst problem with FP return is the people who arrive PRIOR to their window, and then block the FP entrance. The guideline to allow a return outside the window is not a significant problem. There will be a larger problem when the stampede arrives as its window is expiring.

The enforcement of a wider return window would be the best option. A 2-3 hour window would allow greater flexibility and allow for unexpected delays such as longer than posted ride wait times, or slower than expected CS. A trip filled with additional hassles makes a return trip less desirable.

[ChipNDale79]

Actually, you make a case FOR this change... And in reality, this will not have any impact on people making ADRs... if you rethink your dining because of this and don't book an ADR, 100 people after you will take your space...

How does this not have any impact on ADRs? ADRs are made well in advance, when you make them you have no idea what time your future fast pass is going to be good for. The fast pass time is a fluid time frame based on the amount of people that have requested a pass.

If we are going to be required to have a certain "window" to follow, and follow it strictly, then give us the option to chose our own window. However, I don't want to have to do that 6 months in advance, Id rather do it the day of and have to do it at the ride just like the current system works.

[Main Street Jim]

Now, what happens when a ride goes down? For instance when we were there in January, we got a Fast Pass for Splash Mountain, we came back right when our fast pass started and then the ride was down for four hours after that until they finally got it back up and running. The CM said that the fast pass was good till park close because the ride was down for so long. But now what happens? I would be LIVID if my fast pass was no good because THEIR ride broke down? :mad:My guess would be that if an attraction goes down due to "technical difficulties", the FP Return CM's will have another "FP-like" ticket for those guests with return times that occur during the down-time. Kind of like the "re-ads" (readmission passes) that are given out to guests who are actually *on* the ride when it does have problems. But, it would have to actually have a later return time on it (the current re-ads don't, or didn't while I worked there, and were good for *any* FP attraction in *that* park on *that* date* only) for *that* attraction only.

[Main Street Jim]

How does this not have any impact on ADRs? ADRs are made well in advance, when you make them you have no idea what time your future fast pass is going to be good for. The fast pass time is a fluid time frame based on the amount of people that have requested a pass.Well, currently, you *do* know what time your FastPass is for when you walk up to the attraction's FP machines. It will just require a little more extra planning in this case.

But, I see what you're saying - when you *enter* a park, you don't/won't know what the return times are *without* going all the way to that particular attraction and seeing for yourself. I like the way EPCOT has the signage, though, stating what the return times are at each FP attraction (right behind SpaceShip Earth, at the Pin Trading thing).

[BrerGnat]

Why is it that people feel Disney owes then something when a ride breaks down?

Remember, before fastpasses, when you'd go to WDW and a ride would break down? You'd get NOTHING. And it was NO BIG DEAL.

I have a hard time understanding why Disney would have to have a system in place to accommodate people who got stuck on a ride. Isn't that presumably what the 15 minute "buffer" is for???

[DizneyFreak2002]

How does this not have any impact on ADRs? ADRs are made well in advance, when you make them you have no idea what time your future fast pass is going to be good for. The fast pass time is a fluid time frame based on the amount of people that have requested a pass.

If we are going to be required to have a certain "window" to follow, and follow it strictly, then give us the option to chose our own window. However, I don't want to have to do that 6 months in advance, Id rather do it the day of and have to do it at the ride just like the current system works.

How?? Easy, are you going to sit behind your computer trying to book Le Cellier at the 180 day window and think to yourself, "Hmm maybe i shouldn't because my Soarin FP may give me a return time of 5:00 to 6:00..." I doubt it.. And if you do, then easy, don't book... There will be 100 people lining up behind you to book dining at those times so Disney won't lose...And if you say that you will lose, then you kind of deserve to if you allow yourself to worry about a FP return time that you won't even know about until that day... Again, if you book Le Cellier for 5:30 and you approach Soarin and see FP return times are between 5:00 and 6:00 then it is simple, you don't get yourself a pass... And as a little side note, Disney is always accommodating for people arriving a little late for their ADRs... I know I have been a half hour late due to Disney bus transportation and they ALWAYS sat me... So, this really isn't going to be the problem everyone is making it out be..

And as to your second point, how do you know Disney will not start allowing you to pick your own return time??? You don't know... So sit back and wait to see what Disney has in store for this...

And this really isn't the end of the world people...

[DizneyFreak2002]

My guess would be that if an attraction goes down due to "technical difficulties", the FP Return CM's will have another "FP-like" ticket for those guests with return times that occur during the down-time. Kind of like the "re-ads" (readmission passes) that are given out to guests who are actually *on* the ride when it does have problems. But, it would have to actually have a later return time on it (the current re-ads don't, or didn't while I worked there, and were good for *any* FP attraction in *that* park on *that* date* only) for *that* attraction only.

And that is exactly what I said in one of my above posts regarding the restaurants... No one knows what will be implemented...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well, currently, you *do* know what time your FastPass is for when you walk up to the attraction's FP machines. It will just require a little more extra planning in this case.

But, I see what you're saying - when you *enter* a park, you don't/won't know what the return times are *without* going all the way to that particular attraction and seeing for yourself. I like the way EPCOT has the signage, though, stating what the return times are at each FP attraction (right behind SpaceShip Earth, at the Pin Trading thing).

When you enter the park, if a certain ride is THAT important to you, you go to that ride first thing... Problem solved... Or, just wait on standby..

[DizneyFreak2002]

Why is it that people feel Disney owes then something when a ride breaks down?

Remember, before fastpasses, when you'd go to WDW and a ride would break down? You'd get NOTHING. And it was NO BIG DEAL.

I have a hard time understanding why Disney would have to have a system in place to accommodate people who got stuck on a ride. Isn't that presumably what the 15 minute "buffer" is for???

Because we live in a society where people feel privileged and feel everything is owed to them...

Fast pass is a perk of visiting the park... You don't have to use it, and if you do, you have to follow the rules set forth...

[seanyred]

I think this is a good change. I'm not worried about any aspect of this new policy. If I'm concerned about getting on a certain ride then I'll make that ride my priority.

As for ADR conflicts. I don't see this being a problem either if my ADR is at 7pm and my current fast pass is 7pm to 9pm then there should be no problems. But if there happens to be a conflict why couldn't you show the CM your time/date stamped receipt from the restaurant and they can use discretion.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I think this is a good change. I'm not worried about any aspect of this new policy. If I'm concerned about getting on a certain ride then I'll make that ride my priority.

As for ADR conflicts. I don't see this being a problem either if my ADR is at 7pm and my current fast pass is 7pm to 9pm then there should be no problems. But if there happens to be a conflict why couldn't you show the CM your time/date stamped receipt from the restaurant and they can use discretion.

Exactly sean... I really think people are mad because now they won't be able to officially game the system...

[joanna71985]

I am glad they are finally getting strict with this. Few things are more annoying than during evening EMH when you have a trong of people suddenly want to use thier fast passes for say Soaring or TSMM... I always believed that all fastpasses should be null and voided after regular park operating hours anyway lol.

They are. FPs are only for regular hours

[potzie]

Because we live in a society where people feel privileged and feel everything is owed to them...

Fast pass is a perk of visiting the park... You don't have to use it, and if you do, you have to follow the rules set forth...

I normally respect you and your posts but I feel that you are blinded by some hatred for those who have taken the opportunity to benefit from the fact that WDW has not enforced the end time in the past.

You yourself said that FP are a PERK of visiting the park. If people can't use them or have to adjust their vacation to suit the times then it doesn't seem like much of a PERK to me.

I know I don't have to use them and I am an adult and can make choices but with the credit card deposit on ADRs I have no choice but to make my ADR or forfeit the penalty, so it does become restrictive. I also have to contend with the one FP every 2 hours, so if I miss out on a FP because of a mechanical issue I have lost the opportunity to use the FP system for another attraction.

I love Disney and I try to visit multiple times a year, but I am also intelligent enough to see when things are being changed and not to the benefit of the guests. It seems that some people just blindly say that Disney can do no wrong and it's my privilege that they let me in and we shouldn't say anything negative or second guess the almighty.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I normally respect you and your posts but I feel that you are blinded by some hatred for those who have taken the opportunity to benefit from the fact that WDW has not enforced the end time in the past.

You yourself said that FP are a PERK of visiting the park. If people can't use them or have to adjust their vacation to suit the times then it doesn't seem like much of a PERK to me.

I know I don't have to use them and I am an adult and can make choices but with the credit card deposit on ADRs I have no choice but to make my ADR or forfeit the penalty, so it does become restrictive. I also have to contend with the one FP every 2 hours, so if I miss out on a FP because of a mechanical issue I have lost the opportunity to use the FP system for another attraction.

I love Disney and I try to visit multiple times a year, but I am also intelligent enough to see when things are being changed and not to the benefit of the guests. It seems that some people just blindly say that Disney can do no wrong and it's my privilege that they let me in and we shouldn't say anything negative or second guess the almighty.

If you think I say Disney does no wrong, then you never read my posts... I think I'm their biggest critic here and say they never do anything right... In fact, I know I'm their biggest critic here.. Ian maybe a close second LOL... However, they are getting this right...

You bring up ADRs, but the solution is very simple... At 180 days out, you book your dining... When you are at the on that particular day, and you want a FP for a ride, check the FP return times BEFORE getting the FPs... if the return time is close to or falls in your ADR time, you do not get yourself the FP... If the ride is that important, go standby... And if the ride is really a must do, go there first thing in the day...

FP is a perk that no one has to use.. And if you decide to use it, then you have to abide by the policy...

[TheVBs]

Can't say this is a huge concern for us. Until the last trip we never even knew you could use them late. It's never been hard for us to make it back for the window, so even on the last trip we didn't have a need to test going late. I don't have any doubt that Disney has a plan in place if a ride goes down. And I LOVE the idea of being able to choose a later return time at the kiosk!

We've already backed off the craziness of the 180 ADRs. We will still do it, but just for a couple of must do places. I definitely will not do it for rides. If it comes to having to book your ride times in advance for FP, we will simply be content with the standby lines.

[Kenny1113]

Can't wait to hear how this goes. Hopefully the kinks and congestion are worked out in time for our trip.

[ChipNDale79]

I normally respect you and your posts but I feel that you are blinded by some hatred for those who have taken the opportunity to benefit from the fact that WDW has not enforced the end time in the past.

You yourself said that FP are a PERK of visiting the park. If people can't use them or have to adjust their vacation to suit the times then it doesn't seem like much of a PERK to me.

I know I don't have to use them and I am an adult and can make choices but with the credit card deposit on ADRs I have no choice but to make my ADR or forfeit the penalty, so it does become restrictive. I also have to contend with the one FP every 2 hours, so if I miss out on a FP because of a mechanical issue I have lost the opportunity to use the FP system for another attraction.

I love Disney and I try to visit multiple times a year, but I am also intelligent enough to see when things are being changed and not to the benefit of the guests. It seems that some people just blindly say that Disney can do no wrong and it's my privilege that they let me in and we shouldn't say anything negative or second guess the almighty.

I'm glad someone else got the same tone out of those posts that I did.

I also take issue with the term "perk" here, I don't actually think its a perk, its a part of the package you purchase when you visit Disney. At the end of the day everyone of us shell out a good chunk of change to visit Disney, I don't know about you, but when I pay so much money to do something, then I expect to be treated different than I would at any other theme park.

One of the main reasons we don't go to Universal is because you have to pay extra for Fast Passes, I'm not spending my vacation standing in line for 2 hours on some rides. If it ever comes down to that at Disney, then I'll take my money and vacation somewhere else.

[wdwfansince75]

I can imagine, since I experienced it, WDW without ADR's and FP's, and I prefer both to neither. Sure, I need to do some planning...but not every meal, every day...just a few specials...then, we plan the rest on the fly...and FP's cover priority rides, but don't drive our whole vacation. Just as the ADR process avoids the long lines in front of a few favorites, FP's allow us to do our favorites together, without long queues....
I like some of the ideas, including some ability to select the return time....perhaps a small number of FP machines for later in the day...And I believe that strict adherence to the windows will allow better application of queue theory to avoid the 2 hour standby times in the afternoon and early evening, as large numbers of FP holders return, past their windows, and impact the standby lines.
Impatience and rudeness is not new; perhaps, more common, but now it can be recorded, tweeted, blogged, ect...and there are always the innocent to blame and punish...the CM's.
I do wonder if this will help mitigate the mid-summer problem of large tour groups, whose tour guides collect large stacks of FP's. Seems that enforcing the window would smooth out the flow of large groups, improving the process for smaller (family) groups.

[TinkerbellT421]

My guess would be that if an attraction goes down due to "technical difficulties", the FP Return CM's will have another "FP-like" ticket for those guests with return times that occur during the down-time. Kind of like the "re-ads" (readmission passes) that are given out to guests who are actually *on* the ride when it does have problems. But, it would have to actually have a later return time on it (the current re-ads don't, or didn't while I worked there, and were good for *any* FP attraction in *that* park on *that* date* only) for *that* attraction only.

That makes sense, I never even knew there was such a thing for when a ride broke down.


Why is it that people feel Disney owes then something when a ride breaks down?

Remember, before fastpasses, when you'd go to WDW and a ride would break down? You'd get NOTHING. And it was NO BIG DEAL.

I have a hard time understanding why Disney would have to have a system in place to accommodate people who got stuck on a ride. Isn't that presumably what the 15 minute "buffer" is for???

My point in my example is what happens is Splash Mountain shut down for four hours and in fact DBF reminded me last night that it was five hours that it shut down. So what good is the 15 minute buffer? I love this implement I was just throwing out an example of a LEGIT, Reasonable example of a "what if this happens" to no fault of anyone. I certainly wasn't trying to feel like I was OWED anything

[BrerGnat]

My point in my example is what happens is Splash Mountain shut down for four hours and in fact DBF reminded me last night that it was five hours that it shut down. So what good is the 15 minute buffer? I love this implement I was just throwing out an example of a LEGIT, Reasonable example of a "what if this happens" to no fault of anyone. I certainly wasn't trying to feel like I was OWED anything

I hope you didn't think I was targeting you! I just meant in general. Since the invention of theme parks/amusement parks, rides have broken down. It used to be, at Disney, if a ride broke down, "oh well." You missed out and it wasn't the end of the world.

My point is, if you have a FP for a ride, and it's broken down during the return window, and for maybe most of the day, EVERYONE who wanted to ride that ride that day will be a bit upset, but I don't think it's Disney's responsibility to have a procedure in place to ameliorate the masses. So, you had a FP for Splash, and it was broken all day and you couldn't use it. Honestly, just go about your day and ride other stuff and ride Splash next time. I don't think it should mean that you get a FP for ANOTHER ride. How is that logical? You were able to ride/do other things during that time...

However, this is what Disney has felt it needed to do for all these years to appease people. Now, people expect it. I think it's a bit over the top, that's all.

I think Disney would be wise to stop all the "freebies" just to make people happy.

Disney wants to change their FP policy. I get it. I understand why. I don't love it, but it's not my decision to make. I will keep going to Disney parks, and I will adjust my touring to take into account the new FP return time parameters. I don't think Disney needs to think of every possible scenario that might prevent someone from being able to use their FP and have a "backup plan" in place. That's a bit much.

[ChipNDale79]

I think Disney would be wise to stop all the "freebies" just to make people happy.

But isn't this exactly what sets Disney apart from other theme parks? It's that extra "magic" that they put into people's vacation that keeps them going back.

I'm curious to know if people on this board visit other parks like a Six Flags or a Cedar Point Park.

[TinkerbellT421]

I hope you didn't think I was targeting you! I just meant in general. Since the invention of theme parks/amusement parks, rides have broken down. It used to be, at Disney, if a ride broke down, "oh well." You missed out and it wasn't the end of the world.

My point is, if you have a FP for a ride, and it's broken down during the return window, and for maybe most of the day, EVERYONE who wanted to ride that ride that day will be a bit upset, but I don't think it's Disney's responsibility to have a procedure in place to ameliorate the masses. So, you had a FP for Splash, and it was broken all day and you couldn't use it. Honestly, just go about your day and ride other stuff and ride Splash next time. I don't think it should mean that you get a FP for ANOTHER ride. How is that logical? You were able to ride/do other things during that time...

However, this is what Disney has felt it needed to do for all these years to appease people. Now, people expect it. I think it's a bit over the top, that's all.

I think Disney would be wise to stop all the "freebies" just to make people happy.

Disney wants to change their FP policy. I get it. I understand why. I don't love it, but it's not my decision to make. I will keep going to Disney parks, and I will adjust my touring to take into account the new FP return time parameters. I don't think Disney needs to think of every possible scenario that might prevent someone from being able to use their FP and have a "backup plan" in place. That's a bit much.

Lol I did sort-of :blush: Sorry sometimes it's hard to tell in "type" than when it's actually verbal! Sometimes I see how I might come across later and go ah dang that's not how I mean it! lol. No worries still love ya.

I guess I was coming across from an emotional stand point with using Splash Mountain as an example, because this was the first trip ever that I even had the chance to ride it and it was our second to last day in the park, etc so it was possibly my one and only chance to EVER ride Splash Mountain. Coming from a different stand point, if Soarin went down and the fast pass was for then I would just throw out the fast pass and not even care if we couldn't ride it that day, because Oh well I've ridden it a thousand times. So my original point was more biased on a OMG I will NEVER get to ride Splash Mountain (The Disney Gods are against me) stand point! lol!!!

[Auroring Good Time]

I guess I'm the naive one. I always thought when it said your fast pass was valid between certain times, that's when it was valid. Of the 30+ times I've been to Disney, I've always used my fast pass during that time. It's seems unreal that people are getting frustrated that they are now no longer allowed to break the rules. It's like having a doctor's appointment for 10:15 and taking that as you can show up any time after 10:15. I do agree that if a ride goes down during your fast pass time, there should be exceptions but, otherwise, follow the rules.

[Stu29573]

I guess I'm the naive one. I always thought when it said your fast pass was valid between certain times, that's when it was valid. Of the 30+ times I've been to Disney, I've always used my fast pass during that time. It's seems unreal that people are getting frustrated that they are now no longer allowed to break the rules. It's like having a doctor's appointment for 10:15 and taking that as you can show up any time after 10:15. I do agree that if a ride goes down during your fast pass time, there should be exceptions but, otherwise, follow the rules.

Lol, Yeah, I guess we were the only clueless ones out there. I didn't know you could do this until my last couple of trips. When I found out my new power did I use it? Nope.(well, maybe once, but I don't remember) It just never was an issue. I can't see getting bent out of shape over this one....

[DizneyFreak2002]

I'm glad someone else got the same tone out of those posts that I did.

I also take issue with the term "perk" here, I don't actually think its a perk, its a part of the package you purchase when you visit Disney. At the end of the day everyone of us shell out a good chunk of change to visit Disney, I don't know about you, but when I pay so much money to do something, then I expect to be treated different than I would at any other theme park.

One of the main reasons we don't go to Universal is because you have to pay extra for Fast Passes, I'm not spending my vacation standing in line for 2 hours on some rides. If it ever comes down to that at Disney, then I'll take my money and vacation somewhere else.

Fastpass, for now, is free, therefore it is a perk... When you can start paying for your fastpass, then the perk is removed and becomes part of your vacation planning... Fastpass is not a part of your vacation package as you did not pay for it.. it is your option to use it or not, a PERK Disney offers its theme park guests...

And just because you spend so much money on a vacation doesn't give you the right to do what you want, when you want, and how you want... You pay a lot of money for a car, but that doesn't give you the right to speed now, does it??? You still have to follow Disney's policies as part of your vacation...Your comment actually confirm more of what I been saying... people have this "entitlement" mind thought so thank you for proving my point...

[DizneyFreak2002]

However, this is what Disney has felt it needed to do for all these years to appease people. Now, people expect it. I think it's a bit over the top, that's all.

Right, Disney created this monster, Disney will have to deal with it... And I believe they will...


Disney wants to change their FP policy. I get it. I understand why. I don't love it, but it's not my decision to make. I will keep going to Disney parks, and I will adjust my touring to take into account the new FP return time parameters. I don't think Disney needs to think of every possible scenario that might prevent someone from being able to use their FP and have a "backup plan" in place. That's a bit much.

I don't love a lot of things Disney does either... And I have voiced that many times... But, fact remains, they control their business, we don't... If people don't like it, then people do not have to go... You do to have a right to go to Disney... It is your choice... if you choose to use their business, you must follow their rules... It just seems like people do not want to follow rules and feel entitled to do what they want when they want... While it may have been that way in the past, starting March 7, it will no longer work that way for FP... People are going to have to deal with it... People will just have to change how they tour the park... If they cannot abide by policy then they shouldn't go...

[zipadeedoodah]

It also bugs me that people are complaining about the fact that they can't "break the rules" anymore. Throw me in with the naive people. I'd like to know what everyone thought the purpose of the "arrive before time" was? I've been to WDW more times than I can count, and I never knew you could abuse the system like this. Now, I realize why over the past 5 or 6 years it seems like the fastpass lines are so long! Disney only releases a certain number of fastpasses per designated times for a reason. There's a system to it all. It is supposed to allow you to have "little to no wait" when you return during your designated time. I'm glad Disney is going to start enforcing this policy now. That way the fastpass will work as it is designed to again! :thumbsup:

[DizneyFreak2002]

But isn't this exactly what sets Disney apart from other theme parks? It's that extra "magic" that they put into people's vacation that keeps them going back.

I'm curious to know if people on this board visit other parks like a Six Flags or a Cedar Point Park.

Yes I do, i go to my local Six Flags many times during the spring and summer months... And I enjoy it for what it is, a fun amusement park with awesome roller coasters... And it is just as fun as Disney because I never expect freebies... If people are going to Disney expecting freebies, they need to re-examine why they go...

Disney is not removing FP... It is still free... And even when it comes to the point where xPass, as it may be called, is not free, you can still use the regular FP in the parks... You just follow their policy...

[ChipNDale79]

Fastpass, for now, is free, therefore it is a perk... When you can start paying for your fastpass, then the perk is removed and becomes part of your vacation planning... Fastpass is not a part of your vacation package as you did not pay for it.. it is your option to use it or not, a PERK Disney offers its theme park guests...

And just because you spend so much money on a vacation doesn't give you the right to do what you want, when you want, and how you want... You pay a lot of money for a car, but that doesn't give you the right to speed now, does it??? You still have to follow Disney's policies as part of your vacation...Your comment actually confirm more of what I been saying... people have this "entitlement" mind thought so thank you for proving my point...

How is it free? It's a part of your ticket that you PURCHASE to enter the park.

Don't be fooled into thinking anything is free at Walt Disney World, nothing is free. :spend:

By the way, have you heard the rumors of the Next Gen project that Disney is developing? Rumors are you will get the option to select your Fast Pass months in advance, therefore you vacation will have to be planned out to a T. How much fun does that sound? :rolleyes:

You're comment about speeding isn't even comparable. I'll follow the rules, I have no problem with that. All I am asking is if they are going to force people to follow the policy to the T now, then maybe they should offer some other solutions like selecting a time window the day of and at the fast pass machine. What's wrong with that?

For some of us it's extremely hard to afford a Disney vacation, so for the thousands of dollars we put towards a Disney Vacation, I do expect great service.

You and I disagree, and that's fine.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I guess I'm the naive one. I always thought when it said your fast pass was valid between certain times, that's when it was valid. Of the 30+ times I've been to Disney, I've always used my fast pass during that time. It's seems unreal that people are getting frustrated that they are now no longer allowed to break the rules. It's like having a doctor's appointment for 10:15 and taking that as you can show up any time after 10:15. I do agree that if a ride goes down during your fast pass time, there should be exceptions but, otherwise, follow the rules.

You are not naive... The FP system was designed so you had to return between the time printed on your ticket... Management made the decision not to enforce their own FP policy... So they actually created this monster... Now they will be enforcing it...

Look on the back of any FP and you will see :PLEASE ENTER FASTPASS ENTRANCE AT THE ATTRACTION BETWEEN THE TIMES NOTED ON THE OTHER SIDE....Nowhere on the ticket does it say any time AFTER the first time printed... So this has ALWAYS been the policy, just never enforced... Now it will be finally enforced...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Lol, Yeah, I guess we were the only clueless ones out there. I didn't know you could do this until my last couple of trips. When I found out my new power did I use it? Nope.(well, maybe once, but I don't remember) It just never was an issue. I can't see getting bent out of shape over this one....

You are right, there is no reason for people to be getting bent out of shape about this... I wish people would be so passionate about the real issues plaguing WDW... This isn't one of them...

[DizneyFreak2002]

It also bugs me that people are complaining about the fact that they can't "break the rules" anymore. Throw me in with the naive people. I'd like to know what everyone thought the purpose of the "arrive before time" was? I've been to WDW more times than I can count, and I never knew you could abuse the system like this. Now, I realize why over the past 5 or 6 years it seems like the fastpass lines are so long! Disney only releases a certain number of fastpasses per designated times for a reason. There's a system to it all. It is supposed to allow you to have "little to no wait" when you return during your designated time. I'm glad Disney is going to start enforcing this policy now. That way the fastpass will work as it is designed to again! :thumbsup:

The only thing I will defend them on is Disney broke their own rules... The policy on FP was clear from the beginning and is even printed on the FP ticket... Disney allowed the policy to not be enforced... But now Disney will be enforcing it... So either return during the times printed on the FP or don't use FP at all... No one said you have to use it... But if you do, you must abide by the policy...

[Gator]

Well, I HATE this new idea!:thedolls: Hate it. :mad: With kids, I like the idea of grabbing a fast pass and coming back to that attraction later in the day. Instead, their little legs have to go from one side of the park to the other trying to get somewhere in a tiny little window of time. It's nice grabbing a fast pass for Test Track or Soarin in the morning, and then coming back in the evening when nothing is happening in World Showcase. NO MORE :mad: Stinking shame. Rethinking the expediancy of my next WDW trip.

[DizneyFreak2002]

How is it free? It's a part of your ticket that you PURCHASE to enter the park.

Don't be fooled into thinking anything is free at Walt Disney World, nothing is free. :spend:

By the way, have you heard the rumors of the Next Gen project that Disney is developing? Rumors are you will get the option to select your Fast Pass months in advance, therefore you vacation will have to be planned out to a T. How much fun does that sound? :rolleyes:

You're comment about speeding isn't even comparable. I'll follow the rules, I have no problem with that. All I am asking is if they are going to force people to follow the policy to the T now, then maybe they should offer some other solutions like selecting a time window the day of and at the fast pass machine. What's wrong with that?

For some of us it's extremely hard to afford a Disney vacation, so for the thousands of dollars we put towards a Disney Vacation, I do expect great service.

You and I disagree, and that's fine.

Ok, if you want to look at it that way, a hidden charge, fine... There are still policies that are in place and policies must be followed...

And have heard of the NextGen fastpass, and here is the funny thing about it, you don't have to use it... :) it will only be an OPTION for you to use... You can still choose vacation at Disney without planning every minute of your day...

As for choosing, you do not know what Disney has planned in the future... Part of the NextGen is being able to book a certain ride for a certain time, at home, while vacation planning... So they will be allowing people to choose their return window... No one knows if this will eventually make it inside the parks or not...

I can understand it is extremely hard to save up for a Disney vacation, I can completely sympathize with that... Believe me, I know... I felt fortunate enough I was able to save up and go every year, and eventually buy into the DVC... But that doesn't give someone the right to feel entitled, because cold reality is, resorts guests aren't entitled to anything... And sadly, many people feel they ARE... I'm not saying you personally, but read around, and you'll see people have this mentality...

And for great service, you will still receive great service... Just because Disney will be enforcing this policy doesn't mean their service suddenly became garbage...

[zipadeedoodah]

And for great service, you will still receive great service... Just because Disney will be enforcing this policy doesn't mean their service suddenly became garbage...

Well said!

[DizneyFreak2002]

Well, I HATE this new idea!:thedolls: Hate it. :mad: With kids, I like the idea of grabbing a fast pass and coming back to that attraction later in the day. Instead, their little legs have to go from one side of the park to the other trying to get somewhere in a tiny little window of time. It's nice grabbing a fast pass for Test Track or Soarin in the morning, and then coming back in the evening when nothing is happening in World Showcase. NO MORE :mad: Stinking shame. Rethinking the expediancy of my next WDW trip.

Maybe you need to stay away then... Or better yet, figure out a better touring plan... You will have an hour and twenty minutes to get to your ride... Plenty of time even from World Showcase... No reason to be dragging your kids... You can still take your time to get over to Soarin...

I'll give you some free consultation, next time I'm charging... When you get to a theme park, and there is a ride you just have to do, go there first, your wait time will be next to nothing... And before getting a FP, check out the return times... Chances are, for TT, Soaring, and TSMM, the FP return times will be way later in the day, so you really are not losing out on anything, so no dragging your kid from one end of the park to the other... And if the return times are that close to the time you are there at that moment, then, I don't know, stay close enough to that attraction and do other things in that area...

It really isn't that big of a deal, just now you have to actually follow rules...

[badkitty]

I'm surprised at how upset everyone is on both sides of the argument. I really don't have a strong opinion one way or the other and I don't want to offend anyone. I'd like to say though, with the vast attendance in the park and the limited number of fastpasses that are distributed, I can't believe that the few that "break the rules" are really significantly affecting the length of the fastpass line. If Disney has allowed it in the past, it isn't really getting away with something. It was Disney's policy to allow a same-day-no-expiration.

I agree with the PP who said the problem is with the crowding at the fastpass entrance for those waiting for their start time!

I think my issue will be with the next-gen fastpass if it turns out to be as rumored. I like to plan my trips but I don't want to mega-plan them. I don't choose ADRs more than a day or so in advance and I definitely will not be selecting fastpasses months in advance. Please pity me in the stand-by line as you pass me by. ;)

[Goofster]

But isn't this exactly what sets Disney apart from other theme parks? It's that extra "magic" that they put into people's vacation that keeps them going back.

I'm curious to know if people on this board visit other parks like a Six Flags or a Cedar Point Park.

We go to Cedar Point once every summer and there isn't any extra magic there...not really any magic. Just roller coasters and long lines. If a ride breaks down while you are in line, which they often do, you can either wait for it to go back online or leave and come back later. The park doesn't give you a fast pass for your time spent in line.

[ChipNDale79]

Maybe you need to stay away then

That's thing that very well could happen, people may stay away. I don't think I'm asking for much, all I'm asking for his some leniency when it comes to the time window, sometimes things happen.

When you spend the amount of money that you do on a Disney vacation its the least that WDW could do.

And before you say, fine stay away, there are 100 people that will take your place, well there arent. If there were 100 people that would take my place at Disney, then WDW wouldn' have been running the promotions they have been running for the past number of years. If someone chooses not to go, then thats one less person that Disney is missing out on, no one is going to take their place.


Quite honestly I don't go to Universal because they don't have a Fast Pass system comparable to Disney. I understand they have a pass but you have to pay extra for it. I also understand that Universal isn't hurting either, but I wonder how much better they would be doing if they followed the same path that Disney follows.

Let's just hope that Disney doesn't head in the direction of Universal.

[TinkerbellT421]

Speaking of six flags, I haven't been there in years, cause frankly I hate that place, for many reasons. But isn't there some type of fast pass system there? But you have to pay extra for it, it's not called fast it has a different name, and it's a ridiculous amount of money. Am I way off base?

[MstngDrvnDsnyLvr]

WOW - HEATED SUBJECT!!

All that is happening is that they are going to enforce what they already have in place. And how many people that visit WDW and DL actually realize that they CAN go after the time PRINTED IN BOLD PRINT ON THE FP TICKET?? Probably not as many as those that actually do go after their allotted FP time.

So instead of just grabbing any old FP, one will have to actually pay attention to the FP times before getting passes. As for the one that was all :thedolls:.... so sorry that you feel that way, but I personally have to applaud Disney for the enforcement of the FP window.

[Mousemates]

Maybe you need to stay away then...

...I'll give you some free consultation, next time I'm charging...

It really isn't that big of a deal, just now you have to actually follow rules...

Two thoughts:

#1 when the tone of a response loses civility it seldom moves the discussion forward.

#2 the number of times some folks have posted to this particular thread indicates it might be a bigger deal to them than they realize.

[ChipNDale79]

Two thoughts:

#1 when the tone of a response loses civility it seldom moves the discussion forward.

#2 the number of times some folks have posted to this particular thread indicates it might be a bigger deal to them than they realize.

Where's the "like" button?

[DizneyFreak2002]

That's thing that very well could happen, people may stay away. I don't think I'm asking for much, all I'm asking for his some leniency when it comes to the time window, sometimes things happen.

When you spend the amount of money that you do on a Disney vacation its the least that WDW could do.

And before you say, fine stay away, there are 100 people that will take your place, well there arent. If there were 100 people that would take my place at Disney, then WDW wouldn' have been running the promotions they have been running for the past number of years. If someone chooses not to go, then thats one less person that Disney is missing out on, no one is going to take their place.


Quite honestly I don't go to Universal because they don't have a Fast Pass system comparable to Disney. I understand they have a pass but you have to pay extra for it. I also understand that Universal isn't hurting either, but I wonder how much better they would be doing if they followed the same path that Disney follows.

Let's just hope that Disney doesn't head in the direction of Universal.

Disney should head in the direction of Universal because Universal has been doing it right lately, Disney been doing things all wrong...

And you are getting leniency, an hour and 20 minutes worth, not all day anymore (the hour of your window plus 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after)... That is plenty of enough time... And again, if the return time doesn't work for you then don't get a fastpass...

As for Universal's Express Pass, actually, I have read different articles about it... Doing it the way they currently do it actually makes it more efficient than Disney's FP system allowing guests to come in anytime they want after the return time... Numbers have been put out there, and no I am not going to rehash them here, but wait times for popular rides have actually lessened with Universal's Express Pass system... So their system really isn't a bad thing... And that as before Potter opened...

[DizneyFreak2002]

I think my issue will be with the next-gen fastpass if it turns out to be as rumored. I like to plan my trips but I don't want to mega-plan them. I don't choose ADRs more than a day or so in advance and I definitely will not be selecting fastpasses months in advance. Please pity me in the stand-by line as you pass me by. ;)

The NextGen Fastpass will only be an option.. You don't have to use it when booking your Disney World vacation... You'll still be able to wing it... And I'll be standing with you on the standby line as I don't like to plan every minute either...

[DizneyFreak2002]

Speaking of six flags, I haven't been there in years, cause frankly I hate that place, for many reasons. But isn't there some type of fast pass system there? But you have to pay extra for it, it's not called fast it has a different name, and it's a ridiculous amount of money. Am I way off base?

Six Flags has a pay system called Flash Pass... Looking at their site now, for Six Flags Great Adventure here in NJ, the Flash Pass is $45.00 for the first person... Gold Flash passes are $80.00 for the first person and platinum flash passes are $120 for the first person... And are good for only that day of purchase... So yes, fairly expensive...

I never had the need for a flash pass at Great Adventure... I just wait... and if the wait time is that long, then I skip the ride until later... However, I also know that certain coasters are more popular than others, so i plan accordingly.. I'll go to El Toro and Green Lantern first thing in the day since lines are minimal upon park opening, then work my way over to Nitro later in the day...

[ChipNDale79]

Disney should head in the direction of Universal because Universal has been doing it right lately, Disney been doing things all wrong...

And you are getting leniency, an hour and 20 minutes worth, not all day anymore (the hour of your window plus 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after)... That is plenty of enough time... And again, if the return time doesn't work for you then don't get a fastpass...

As for Universal's Express Pass, actually, I have read different articles about it... Doing it the way they currently do it actually makes it more efficient than Disney's FP system allowing guests to come in anytime they want after the return time... Numbers have been put out there, and no I am not going to rehash them here, but wait times for popular rides have actually lessened with Universal's Express Pass system... So their system really isn't a bad thing... And that as before Potter opened...

So Disney should start to charge $20 per day per person for Fast Passes, is that what you are suggesting?

[DizneyFreak2002]

Two thoughts:

#1 when the tone of a response loses civility it seldom moves the discussion forward.

#2 the number of times some folks have posted to this particular thread indicates it might be a bigger deal to them than they realize.

I will continue to post... so, i dunno what your post really is meant to do.. :)

[DizneyFreak2002]

So Disney should start to charge $20 per day per person for Fast Passes, is that what you are suggesting?

If that is what they decide to do, then so be it... sometimes you have to pay for the privilege...

[ChipNDale79]

If that is what they decide to do, then so be it... sometimes you have to pay for the privilege...

I wouldn't think that would be a smart move on their part, considering the promotions they've had to run in the past couple of years just to get people to WDW.

I for one would stop going to WDW as much as I do now if that were the case. We would take the kids every 3-4 years, but we wouldn't go every year. I've had this discussion with several friends and they all express the same opinions.

There's a point where enough is enough. So I'm not so sure that's a good idea.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I wouldn't think that would be a smart move on their part, considering the promotions they've had to run in the past couple of years just to get people to WDW.

I for one would stop going to WDW as much as I do now if that were the case. We would take the kids every 3-4 years, but we wouldn't go every year. I've had this discussion with several friends and they all express the same opinions.

There's a point where enough is enough. So I'm not so sure that's a good idea.

I can find 1000 other reasons not to go to WDW every year, FP is not one of them... But that is your decision and you are entitled to it...

And whether we think it is a good idea or not, if Disney decides to go that way, what can we do? Not go.. Which is what I been saying through out this whole thread... if someone doesn't like it, then they don't have to go... So, again, you backed up my points exactly...

I don't like every decision Disney makes either... But I still choose to go and enjoy myself... I don't like the 180 day ADR window, but that doesn't stop me from making ADRs or going... I just may not make a lot of ADRs or I may cancel the ADR... I don't let policy that I do not like affect my vacation... And it seems like, and again, not pointing to you so don't take this personal, a lot of people will let this affect their vacation... it shouldn't...

If they went to a pay system (and the NextGen choose your ride time FP may be a pay system), then they do... We also don't know what their plan for this truly is... So a lot of people are really getting ahead of themselves with this...

Oh, just one more point... None of us like when Disney raises ticket prices and hotel room rates... We all think it is a bad idea... Yet, we all still pay their prices and 17 million people still enter the gates... If people want the privilege of choosing their return times, they may have to pay for it... or if people want the privilege of returning to the ride any time they want, they may have to pay for it, like in other theme parks... Disney is a business... They will always look out for number 1 ( their bottom line)... And yet 17 million people still visit Magic Kingdom every year...

What is wrong with me, I'm actually defending TDO???

[wildernesslady]

We have been guilty of going to a ride after the FP time. Mainly for convenience of where we are and what we are doing at the time.

We will obviously be following the new rules as we feel the FP system is a good one. It will just require a little more planning.

Remember, sometimes change is good. We all just need to adjust. I will not; however, ever pay for the FP service. Hopefully, Disney does not start charging for that.

It is what it is. That seems to be my motto for 2012.

[Polynesian Dweller]

Well, I HATE this new idea!:thedolls: Hate it. :mad: With kids, I like the idea of grabbing a fast pass and coming back to that attraction later in the day. Instead, their little legs have to go from one side of the park to the other trying to get somewhere in a tiny little window of time. It's nice grabbing a fast pass for Test Track or Soarin in the morning, and then coming back in the evening when nothing is happening in World Showcase. NO MORE :mad: Stinking shame. Rethinking the expediancy of my next WDW trip.

We have never missed a FP window in all of our trips. Never! And never felt any hardship or put out at all. It is not hard at all.

With everything in this world, you work within the parameters you are given. The parameters for FP are easy. Before you get one you know the return time, it's posted above the machines. You decide if it works for you. If it does then you get one. Then you plan your activities to be back at your time. That will be 2 hrs, plus a 1 hr window plus 15 minutes. So you have 3 hours and 15 minutes to get back. That's a lot of time. If, for example, at 9 am someone can't plan to be back by 12:15 then that says more about that individual's planning ability than anything else.

[ChipNDale79]

And whether we think it is a good idea or not, if Disney decides to go that way, what can we do?


It's pretty simple, as you've been saying all along, don't go. But I dont see how that helps Disney, and in the end what they really care about is filling their resorts up with guests and selling merchandise and food to those guests. So if the decisions they make upset enough people, like adding another fee for another service, those people who go on a yearly basis may very well not go as much.

Currently they are NOT filling their rooms or parks, so in the end it'll hurt their bottom line.

Ive experienced Disney when fast passes were gone and wait times for attractions like HM were 2 hours, you wont catch me dead in a Disney park in that situation ever again. It wasnt fun, if they start charging for Fast Passes, as Universals does, that's exactly the situation they will find themselves in.

Can you explain to me how people not going to WDW helps the Walt Disney Company?

However I do think we have gotten completely off topic.

[badkitty]

What is wrong with me, I'm actually defending TDO???

HA! Who are you and what have you done with the real DizneyFreak2002?

[joonyer]

I have visited WDW in the years before there was a FastPass system, when everybody waited in line, and in crowded times, the waits were sometimes horrible. But yet the parks were packed just like they are now (well, there was only 1 or 2 parks backs then). Then when the FastPass system was introduced, it greatly improved the efficiency of being able to spend less time waiting in line for the most popular attractions, and you could use the time you formerly spent in the long lines riding some of the less popular attractions. So overall, a guest spent less of his/her park time waiting and more time riding/seeing attractions. More efficient. Great system.

And it was (still is) free. Yes, I know the cost of the system is built in to your park tickets, but when you purchase a park ticket, you are not guaranteed or promised any FastPasses for any attractions. They could be out of passes by the time you get to the machines, or they may have technical difficulties, or Disney may decide to do away with the FastPass option for certain attractions altogether (which as been done before). In none of those cases is a guest entitled to any refund or compensation. So it that sense, FastPass is a "free" "perk" and not a "paid for" privilege.

Somewhere along the line, for some reason, (maybe just for the convenience of CM's), Disney made the decision not to enforce the return time "window" of the FastPass system. It wasn't officially publicized; and the written policy/rule of the window was never changed; it just stopped being enforced. Eventually most people found out about it and took advantage of the non-enforcement. While this was convenient for many of us, there is no question that it made the FastPass system less efficient than designed, because the number of guests entering an attraction using FastPasses at certain times of the day was no longer controlled.

Now they have decided to begin enforcing the rule again. Like the stop-sign example I gave earlier, there will be (and already is) lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from many guests and It is Disney's own fault for creating the backlash in the first place. But enforcing the return time policy will improve the overall efficiency of the system (more time riding, less time waiting).

[badkitty]

That will be 2 hrs, plus a 1 hr window plus 15 minutes. So you have 3 hours and 15 minutes to get back. That's a lot of time.

Sorry, I'm lost. How did you determine 3hr and 15 minutes? Where did the 2 hrs come from?

[DizneyFreak2002]

It's pretty simple, as you've been saying all along, don't go. But I dont see how that helps Disney, and in the end what they really care about is filling their resorts up with guests and selling merchandise and food to those guests. So if the decisions they make upset enough people, like adding another fee for another service, those people who go on a yearly basis may very well not go as much.

Currently they are NOT filling their rooms or parks, so in the end it'll hurt their bottom line.

Ive experienced Disney when fast passes were gone and wait times for attractions like HM were 2 hours, you wont catch me dead in a Disney park in that situation ever again. It wasnt fun, if they start charging for Fast Passes, as Universals does, that's exactly the situation they will find themselves in.

Can you explain to me how people not going to WDW helps the Walt Disney Company?

However I do think we have gotten completely off topic.

Well, I think the economy has a lot to do with it, but then again, everywhere I read the parks are usually packed... But that is a discussion for another thread...


HA! Who are you and what have you done with the real DizneyFreak2002?

A bright light came through my window... Next thing I knew i was surrounded by little green people with big eyes.... A poke here and a prod there and I was back in my bedroom.. Planet Kandor is lovely this time of year...


I have visited WDW in the years before there was a FastPass system, when everybody waited in line, and in crowded times, the waits were sometimes horrible. But yet the parks were packed just like they are now (well, there was only 1 or 2 parks backs then). Then when the FatsPass system was introduced, it greatly improved the efficiency of being able to spend less time waiting in line for the most popular attractions, and you could use the time you formerly spent in the long lines riding some of the less popular attractions. So overall, a guest spent less of his/her park time waiting and more time riding/seeing attractions. More efficient. Great system.

And it was (still is) free. Yes, I know the cost of the system is built in to your park tickets, but when you purchase a park ticket, you are not guaranteed or promised any FastPasses for any attractions. They could be out of passes by the time you get to the machines, or they may have technical difficulties, or Disney may decide to do away with the FastPass option for certain attractions altogether (which as been done before). In none of those cases is a guest entitled to any refund or compensation. So it that sense, FastPass is a "free" "perk" and not a "paid for" privilege.

Somewhere along the line, for some reason, (maybe just for the convenience of CM's), Disney made the decision not to enforce the return time "window" of the FastPass system. It wasn't officially publicized; and the written policy/rule of the window was never changed; it just stopped being enforced. Eventually most people found out about it and took advantage of the non-enforcement. While this was convenient for many of us, there is no question that it made the FastPass system less efficient than designed, because the number of guest entering an attraction using FastPasses at certain times of the day was no longer controlled.

Now they have decided to begin enforcing the rule again. Like the stop-sign example I gave earlier, there will be (and already is) lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from many guests and It is Disney's own fault for creating the backlash in the first place. But enforcing the return time policy will improve the overall efficiency of the system (more time riding, less time waiting).

Me needs to like this post!!! :thumbsup:

[Gator]

I can find 1000 other reasons not to go to WDW every year, FP is not one of them... But that is your decision and you are entitled to it...

And whether we think it is a good idea or not, if Disney decides to go that way, what can we do? Not go..

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.

[potzie]

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.

I need to like this post!!!:thumbsup:

[Polynesian Dweller]

Sorry, I'm lost. How did you determine 3hr and 15 minutes? Where did the 2 hrs come from?

Typically the window tends to start off 2 hours after you get the FP. Sometimes more or less but most reports have that as typical. So just went with that as the minimum wait for the calculation.

[ChipNDale79]

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.

Gator, don't you get it, we're just supposed to "take it".

Some people even want Disney to ask us to cough up more money. :spend:

[Polynesian Dweller]

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.

Nothing there changes any argument. The adult does the planning. It's up to the adult to plan the day so do it. Been there done that and it isn't really hard at all. Sure it's not as convenient but however the system works out it's pretty small inconvenience given everything else there is in life.

Oh, telling management is fine, screaming and berating a poor CM who didn't create the rule really isn't appropriate. Once the details are known, they aren't yet, then write management if you feel you need to do so but leave the CM alone, it isn't their fault.

[ILoveMickey'77]

And as a little side note, Disney is always accommodating for people arriving a little late for their ADRs... I know I have been a half hour late due to Disney bus transportation and they ALWAYS sat me...


So it's ok to be late for dinner reservations, but not the Fast Pass? How are the two any different? When you are late for your dinner reservation, the person who has that table after you has to wait longer for theirs.

I guess everyone picks and chooses which rules they want to "break."

[SBETigg]

This is really no big deal to me. I just convinced my husband about two trips ago that it was okay to not return within the window, that we could be late and still be let on. So now I just have to tell him we're back to following the window. We'll plan better and use standby more. We'll still have a great vacation and get to do all of our favorite things.

[Jared]

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.
I don't really understand your logic here. If the Fastpass return time is incompatible with your schedule, you essentially have three options:

1) Reorganize your schedule to make room for this crucial attraction

2) Determine that the attraction is not crucial and skip it in favor of the previous commitment deemed more important

3) Determine the attraction and the previous commitment are both too crucial to miss and wait in the standby line as you otherwise would. Waiting in the standby line will always cycle you through your favorite attraction quicker than waiting for a Fastpass window open hours later.

The reality is that the Fastpass system as designed works better for everyone when guests return during their windows. Disney allowed latecomers entry as a courtesy. That courtesy has been abused, much to the detriment of everybody else.

[PirateLover]

This is getting way out of hand. I think that it's OK to be a bit "disappointed" in the change but it's not the end of the world. There is a lot of negativity on both ends. To all of those who ALWAYS manage to make it back with your window, CONGRATULATIONS!!!! This policy will have NO effect on you, so I'm not really sure why it's necessary to make snarky remarks towards those who have found it difficult in the past or have appreciated the open-ended policy. How is it considered "rule-breaking" if WDW's own rules were to allow it??

Overall I do feel that we live in a society that is too "entitled" but as far as theme parks go, there is a certain truth to what Joonyer said about Disney creating their own monster. I will try my best to abide by the time window, and if I miss it, it will really stink and I'll be bummed-but I just wish Disney had enforced this policy from the get-go. Also, about being entitled to re-ride passes, I can't speak to as far back as park openings, but my first trip to Orlando was pre-fastpass days in August of 1995. Both WDW and Universal at that time were giving out "re-ride" passes when rides broke down. One of the things I vividly remember was the amount of time spent WAITING. Every line was 11/2 to 2 hours, leaving minimal times for re-rides if you wanted to hit everything. FastPass was and still is a God send. I hope they never charge.

[MrPeetrie]

I don't think the new change will adversly affect very many astute Disney-philes that frequent this (or other) Disney fan site. I've been reading so many posts here at InterCOT and it is plainly obvious a great deal of preperation goes into a WDW trip prior to arrival. A GREAT DEAL of prep!!! When most (or near all) of us on this site arrive at WDW, we will be prepared to acknowledge the change. And should we miss our window, I expect we will be respectful of the CMs, who are just doing their job. (Many here ARE CMs.)

I think the real issue will lie with the casual Disney goer -- the family that has gone a couple of times and has an idea of how things work. The traveler that doesn't research their trip. (I don't research a trip to Cedar Point. I know the park and the system.) I think it is they -- the casual visiter -- who will be upset (irate) when they get their TSM FastPass, then miss their window to enter and find all the FPs are distributed. Those of us with children know no matter how much planning goes into our trip, our young ones can change our plans quickly. (They finally fall asleep and you don't want to wake them. Something didn't set well with their belly and now you need a complete attire change. etc.) Plans change. If they expect to be allowed 20 minutes after the window has closed and are not allowed, I think that will be upsetting.

Consider this:
Imagine you have one day to visit DHS this year's trip. You've heard about Toy Story Mania and you have your FastPasses (for 2:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m.) You have 1:45 ADRs at Prime Time Cafe. (Of course, you could not know when your FPs would be good when you made your ADRs six months ago.) You are seated 10 minutes late. You pay your bill and have 15 minutes to make TSM. Perfect! But, your 2YO NEEDS a change and the Baby Care Center is at the front of the park. You miss your window by 15 minutes. The CM, obviously sympathetic says, "I'm Sorry." The stand-by line is 90 minutes. 90 minutes with a 2YO? Not fun. In the past, 15 minutes late had not been an issue. This time, you had no idea changing your 2YO would mean missing your one and only shot at riding this ride this trip. I think this is when it will be problematic.

Perhaps the CMs can have "descretionary" FPs that can be distributed to those that miss their window when the circumstances allow. I know, this may cause more problems than solutions. But, it's a thought.

[DizneyFreak2002]

Dude, you just don't get it. I actually want to go. I like WDW. I like the systems the way they are. If you don't like something about your fav place, you don't just "stop going". You scream at management until something is done. Only after you exhaust that option do you go every 2-4 years instead of every year. Why? Because the experience is less enjoyable, so why spend $5K for a diminishing return.

As for those folks who think we should "plan better", if I want to ride SplashMT and the return time is right during my ADR, do I just say "dangit" and not get the fastpass or wait around until the fastpass time is what I need? The simple point is the system will be a lot less convenient - especially for people like me with kids. Kids don't move like we adults do, so I guarantee I'll be either missing the fastpass windows frequently, yanking my kids around all over the park as fast as we can, or spending a lot more time in stand-by. Quite simply, the convenience is significantly less. And I WILL tell management, through the CMs if necesary (kindly, of course), that the new policy is lousy and not very family friendly.

If you want to ride Splash Mountain, then stand on the standby line if the FP return time is during your ADR... If you know your ADR is for 5:30 and the FP return time is 5:00 to 6:00, then why get the FP when you know you cannot get in past 6 now???

[DizneyFreak2002]

Gator, don't you get it, we're just supposed to "take it".

Some people even want Disney to ask us to cough up more money. :spend:

If you want to use someone''s service, you abide by their rules... So, unfortunately, you have to take it... If you don't like it, write letters... Speak to a manager... And if that fails, then you are going to just have to deal with the policy... If someone doesn't like the policy, then they don't have to partake in the perk...

[DizneyFreak2002]

So it's ok to be late for dinner reservations, but not the Fast Pass? How are the two any different? When you are late for your dinner reservation, the person who has that table after you has to wait longer for theirs.

I guess everyone picks and chooses which rules they want to "break."

The two are different... When you have a time printed on your fast pass ticket telling you to be back at the ride between 5 and 6, and you decide to show up when you want, and you can't get on, then you are out of luck... Right now, they do not enforce this, but come March 7, they will...

If they institute a policy that you have to arrive at your ADR within 15 minutes of your ADR time, and you show up 30 minutes late, and they refuse to seat you, then oh well... Right now, they do not enforce that... But if they decided to, then you have to abide...

And I never said anything about people breaking rules... We already know Disney are the ones who never enforced their own policies... People took advantage of it, good for them... Now they will not be able to, and will now have to plan better...

And for what it is worth, I am one of those that, if I have an ADR at a certain time, or receive a FP for a certain return time, I am always there at that time... there was one or two instances where Disney transportation caused me to be late to the park therefore late to my breakfast ADR, and they still sat me... If they told me I was too late, sorry, then I either see if I can sit as a walk in (which also has never been an issue in certain places) or I find somewhere else to eat... If they enforced a policy, then I am out of luck... Even if I didn't CHOOSE to be late... I'd also respectfully ask the CM to speak with a manager to discuss my situation...

But people are CHOOSING to be late to their fast pass return times... Which is not the intended use of the perk...

[ChipNDale79]

So this is really the tipping point for me, and I'll explain why.

My wife and chose to go to WDW for our honeymoon back in july of 2008, for a king bed at POF with the dining plan it was $2300. This was our first trip since HS, which was before the Fast Pass system. While on this trip we were given expired Fast Passes by a Cast Memeber and we were told that it didnt matter when we use them as long as its during or past the window.

Because we were not only given an expired FP from a CM and advised to use it after the time expired, Ive never seen the big deal is using it afterthe exipred time. It's interesting to come on here and people act like you've broken a law for doing so.

I mentioned the price of our honeymoon for a reason, I just priced out that same exact trip for this year, it runs about $2800, so in 4 short years the cost of said trip has increased $500. On top of that they are now enforcing a "rule" that they never have followed.

Also, today The Disney Company annouced that thier theme park revenue was up 1% while their profit was up 13%, well thats great they made a profit, but it also means they made cuts somewhere. They've increased the price of a trip while also making cuts to their spending, therefore I feel even though we spend more money to go to WDW, we actually get less for our money that we previously did.

I know this is a Disney board and for some of you Disney can do no wrong, but to me the value is starting to slip away.

When my family spends the amount of money that we do to travel to Disney I most certanily expect to be treated as more than a number. This was something that Disney has done very well, but lately I've started to see this slip as well.

[Ian]

Hey guys, the back and forth arguing and finger pointing and dramatics on both sides of this argument are just getting to be a bit too much.

I've found over the years that being on the extreme on any side of any argument means you're most likely wrong. There's a song by the band Live that I particularly like and I'm often reminded of the lyrics at a time like this ...


This is not a black and white world
To be alive I say the colors must swirl
And I believe that maybe today
We will all get to appreciate the beauty of grey

I think you've all made your points. Let's move on, k?

[Kenny1113]

Ugh! Starts march 7th???? That means its only six days to get it working smoothly until my trip. Here's hoping! :mickey:

[Kenny1113]

Hey guys, the back and forth arguing and finger pointing and dramatics on both sides of this argument are just getting to be a bit too much.

I've found over the years that being on the extreme on any side of any argument means you're most likely wrong. There's a song by the band Live that I particularly like and I'm often reminded of the lyrics at a time like this ...



I think you've all made your points. Let's move on, k?


Oops sorry does this mean this is closing sorry I didn't see this before I posted.

[Altair]

Oops sorry does this mean this is closing sorry I didn't see this before I posted.

No, Ian is just trying to get it back on track.:mickey:

[Gator]

When my family spends the amount of money that we do to travel to Disney I most certanily expect to be treated as more than a number. This was something that Disney has done very well, but lately I've started to see this slip as well.

Completely agree. They're taking away one more convenience and charging more. Anyone care to refute that???

[DizneyFreak2002]

I know this is a Disney board and for some of you Disney can do no wrong, but to me the value is starting to slip away.

I been saying the value has been slipping for a while now and I've been called a doomer and gloomer or a hater for it... I'm glad someone else is seeing WDW's value is slipping... It took FP to do it, but it ha been done.. We aren't thinking differently here Chip, you and I... :)

On a side note, I have heard CMs have been told of this enforcement tonight and will begin the training of and enforcing the policy, getting ready for it to go into full effect BY March 7th... The 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after are the current time frames that will be enforced, and any any late arrivers will be handled on a case by case basis... I'll post more info when I hear more about it...

[seanyred]

As a Therapist by trade I think I need to start a FastPass Anonymous group to help everyone cope with these changes. :mickey: First meeting is scheduled for tomorrow in front of the Space Mountain FP Distribution. :mickey:

Seriously though I just hope the end result of the new/old policy is a better experience for all. I know some folks will feel short changed but maybe with time it will end being not as bad as we imagine. Or it could end up being a terrible idea. Either way we have to give it a try first.

Hope everyone has a Magical Day!

[ChipNDale79]

I been saying the value has been slipping for a while now and I've been called a doomer and gloomer or a hater for it... I'm glad someone else is seeing WDW's value is slipping... It took FP to do it, but it ha been done.. We aren't thinking differently here Chip, you and I...

I actually felt that way before the fast passes, but the second you mention it on here people get mad.

I love WDW, we have a 7 month old son and another one on the say, so we can NOT wait to take them. I just hope that I'll be able to give my kids the same memories that I had growing up. But if Disney keeps taking the value away, we just wont take them every year.

[BrerGnat]

How did this thread turn into a "Disney is taking the value away" one? :shrug:

Fast Pass is still FREE. They might start charging for exclusive fast passes, but I assure you they will never stop offering FREE ones as well.

This change has NO bearing on the "value" of a WDW vacation. None.

[ChipNDale79]

How did this thread turn into a "Disney is taking the value away" one? :shrug:

Fast Pass is still FREE. They might start charging for exclusive fast passes, but I assure you they will never stop offering FREE ones as well.

This change has NO bearing on the "value" of a WDW vacation. None.

Fast Pass is NOT free..you pay for it with admission to the park.

[WDWdriver]

The following message has appeared on the CM information web site. The bold sentence was highlighted by me.

"In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney’s FASTPASS Service plays an important role in our Guests’ ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this favorite feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their FASTPASS, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. Exceptions can be granted for situations such as an attraction downtime, a delay in meal service or personal emergency."

[Melanie]

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. Exceptions can be granted for situations such as an attraction downtime, a delay in meal service or personal emergency."

Do you think this will be all the guidance the CMs will get Ron? I guess thinking more about this, these exceptions you bolded can be accounted for within a hour or so of the FP end time. I can't imagine someone trying to argue one of those points hours after the fact.

As I said earlier, we often did use our FPs hours after the end time, but it WAS allowed and even encouraged/explained by CMs themselves. It wasn't "wrong" for a guest to do this. But I have no problem with Disney beginning to enforce this and am actually anxious to see how it affects things. Time will tell.

Now this NextGen stuff.... I don't get any warm fuzzy feelings from it. :ack:

[ChipNDale79]

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. Exceptions can be granted for situations such as an attraction downtime, a delay in meal service or personal emergency."

I can live with this, it's good to see that they are going to take into account ADRs.

[WDWdriver]

Do you think this will be all the guidance the CMs will get Ron? I guess thinking more about this, these exceptions you bolded can be accounted for within a hour or so of the FP end time. I can't imagine someone trying to argue one of those points hours after the fact.


Prior to March 7th all CMs who work at FP attractions will likely be trained on the exception policy and how to handle the "Personal Emergency" exceptions. I expect managers to be present at the attraction entrances for the first couple of days. Still, this is going to place a heavy burden on the CMs. Imagine a newly hired college age CM trying to sort out various exception requests while turning away angry guests whose "Personal Emergency" didn't rise to the exception level. Oh, and by the way, the CM must always ensure the guests have a wonderful Disney experience. I'm not looking forward to working on March 7th.

[Melanie]

I'm not looking forward to working on March 7th.

I don't blame you. :(

[TinkerbellT421]

I'm not looking forward to working on March 7th.

UGH! I definitely will not envy you that day! Good luck :(

[Jared]

Prior to March 7th all CMs who work at FP attractions will likely be trained on the exception policy and how to handle the "Personal Emergency" exceptions. I expect managers to be present at the attraction entrances for the first couple of days. Still, this is going to place a heavy burden on the CMs. Imagine a newly hired college age CM trying to sort out various exception requests while turning away angry guests whose "Personal Emergency" didn't rise to the exception level. Oh, and by the way, the CM must always ensure the guests have a wonderful Disney experience. I'm not looking forward to working on March 7th.
It will be a nightmare for a bit, but this really is the only way to start weaning guests to the new policy. It's unfortunate Disney let it escalate to this point, but I still think it will ultimately be for the best -- after a few headaches.

[Allenfow98]

I have in the past used the fastpass later than the window :thedolls:, its been a convinience knowing we can use it later than the time stated. I have no problem with the window being inforced, it was meant the keep the crowds controlled during the day.
As far as a ride breaking down :mad:, i dont see why there has to be a problem, cant they just create a special RIDE MALFUNCTION fastpass that doesnt have a stated window time.

[DizneyFreak2002]

"In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney’s FASTPASS Service plays an important role in our Guests’ ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this favorite feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their FASTPASS, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. Exceptions can be granted for situations such as an attraction downtime, a delay in meal service or personal emergency."

Thanks Ron... My friend told me there were planned exceptions, but since it was late and she was calling it a night, we didn't get into everything...

The attraction downtime is easy enough to confirm... Personal emergency is a little harder to confirm, but in a way, people shouldn't have to prove a personal emergency since it is, you know, personal.... I'm interested to see how they handle the dining delays... and if they grant some leeway regarding dining delays...

Mel, as you said, you can't see people arguing hours later, but you know they will...

And this really isn't changing anything... Just when I gave TDO some credit.. Badkitty, the TDO bashing Dizneyfreak is back LOL...

[floridamom]

As I said earlier, we often did use our FPs hours after the end time, but it WAS allowed and even encouraged/explained by CMs themselves. It wasn't "wrong" for a guest to do this. But I have no problem with Disney beginning to enforce this and am actually anxious to see how it affects things. Time will tell.

Now this NextGen stuff.... I don't get any warm fuzzy feelings from it. :ack:


We also often used FP's well after the window, mostly to avoid criss-crossing MK multiple times. Honestly I don't think we ever went past the time at the other parks because FP attractions that we visit are more compactly located.

But the simple fact that there was a stated window vs. "Come anytime after 12pm" indicated to us that CMs were extending us a courtesy, not a right.

If NextGen somehow allows FP distribution ahead of time, or with mobile devices, or at centrally located kiosks, or whatever the rumors are, then it may provide better opportunities to coordinate FP times to make for a more "efficient" park experience.

But then the loss of spontaneity is another issue altogether.

[BrerGnat]

Fast Pass is NOT free..you pay for it with admission to the park.

Semantics. There is no "additional charge" to use Fastpass.

I still maintain that this policy change does not lessen the "value" of a WDW vacation.

And, honestly, the more I think about the "NexGen" fastpass thing, the more I HOPE they offer premium fastpasses that you can pay for and that you can buy to the parameters you set. I would LOVE to be able to purchase FP to specific attractions, within a specific time window of my choosing, prior to entering the park. That would be great for us! And, I'd be willing to pay for the ability to choose my FP times ahead of arrival.

I see charging for special FP no different than offering different tiers of resorts, or offering special fireworks viewing parties, and other hard ticketed events in the parks. I am not willing to pay for those things, because it holds no value to me, personally. However, I would be willing to pay for special FP because that DOES hold value to me, personally.

[ChipNDale79]

Semantics. There is no "additional charge" to use Fastpass.

I still maintain that this policy change does not lessen the "value" of a WDW vacation.

And, honestly, the more I think about the "NexGen" fastpass thing, the more I HOPE they offer premium fastpasses that you can pay for and that you can buy to the parameters you set. I would LOVE to be able to purchase FP to specific attractions, within a specific time window of my choosing, prior to entering the park. That would be great for us! And, I'd be willing to pay for the ability to choose my FP times ahead of arrival.

I see charging for special FP no different than offering different tiers of resorts, or offering special fireworks viewing parties, and other hard ticketed events in the parks. I am not willing to pay for those things, because it holds no value to me, personally. However, I would be willing to pay for special FP because that DOES hold value to me, personally.

It may not lessen the value for you, but it does for me. You see when they didnt enforce the policy, you were able to ride more rides when you wanted to. You had the freedom to basically do what you wanted when you wanted. And before you get on me about doing that, please read earlier where I stated that we were told to do this by a CM, we didnt try to get past the system to see if we could. We believed this was part of the system as a CM told us about this practice. Because of that, we didnt think we were doing anything wrong.

So now that they are going to enforce a rule that they should have from the start, people are going to be able to do less and not be able to do things when they want to. So for some of us, that does decrease the value of a trip.

What's a value for me may not be a value for you, and you and I clearly have different ideas for what a value is.

I frankly am tired of the nickle and dime, if overly planning a trip and charging for fast passes is the future of WDW, then count me out. I'll go every 3-4 years to give my children memories, but count me out of going every single year. We've tossed around the idea of purchasing a DVC once our children are out of daycare, its a purchase we will NOT make if we have to plan every single little detail of a trip out.

As I've stated before in this thread, there is not one more person lined up to take my spot in a disney hotel, so if i cancel a trip, its one more vacate room for Disney.

[Mousemates]

I will continue to post... so, i dunno what your post really is meant to do.. :)

My post was simply meant to communicate my observation that the thread had lost much of its civility (others apparently agreed) and that it was apparently a bigger deal to some people than perhaps they even realized themselves. Happy postings. :thumbsup:

[Nascfan]

After taking a few days to digest this news, it really won't affect us much. We usually do the most of the headliners first thing in the morning and use FP a handful of times throughout our trip. I think we've missed one return time over the years and that was due to a meal taking longer than we'd planned.

However, I fail to see the logic of allowing entry "5 minutes before". If they are going to enforce times, why not the start time, which has NEVER been flexible to the best of my knowledge. Can a CM or someone in the know explain the allowing early entry please?

[wdw dude]

I'm not worried about the 5 min early because we've never been admitted early but I'm not liking the 15 min after part. We often show up late for our FP return time.

Same here. :(

[Goofeygal]

I really hope they do enforce the fastpass time.

[joanna71985]

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm no longer at TSM

[GrandFlo]

WOW...am I :confused:. I had no idea you could use FP after the time frame. Im the one at the FP return 10 minutes early watching the clock and if I missed the time frame, I just trashed the FP or kept it for the scrapbook :blush:

I do feel bad for the CMs now having to enforce this and the guests returning at the correct time havining to wait longer now because I'm sure some guests will be arguing with the CMs at the FP entrance....

[Gator]

And, honestly, the more I think about the "NexGen" fastpass thing, the more I HOPE they offer premium fastpasses that you can pay for and that you can buy to the parameters you set.

It's bad enough I feel that green envy sneak up everytime I see folks on a GF bus or a Poly bus. That's a perk I'll never be able to afford. Shoot, I can't squeeze out an extra $200 for the ParkHopper option on 4 tickets. For Disney to actually sell a FastPass system would push me and many other away FOR GOOD. It would mean that others are taking up more fastpass slots, which means fewer for me and even longer stand-by lines.

I like the idea that when someone walks into WDW or DL, they are equal with the person right next to them. Same lines for rides, same lines for food, same chance to get a spot for parades, same chance at a fastpass. If they can make you pay for fastpass, they can make you pay for parade spots, firework spots, and everything else. Don't like that at all.

[Lizzie]

I haven't been to Disneyworld in a few years but we frequent DL often. On our last trip we had 4 girls 4 and under. We would get to the park for rope drop get fast passes for a ride and continually get fast passes as our windows open. We generally used them when our windows opened. But there were times when we would run into a character they had to see, have to do bathroom stops, kids needing food all of a sudden or having to go back to the hotel for a nap.

It was nice to know that we could use those passes when we got back to the park or back to our planned schedule.

Am I going to be in the fast pass line and having to run out because of a potty emergency and than get evil glares for coming back in line?

There are six of us am I going to have to pay 100 a head for fast passes that's 600 dollars.

We are planning a trip for 2013. Would like to book it when good deals come up but can't do that how would we book our meals six months in advance. My girls want to eat in the castle. And it's not like we can afford a deluxe for six people.

[badkitty]

I have in the past used the fastpass later than the window :thedolls:, its been a convinience knowing we can use it later than the time stated. I have no problem with the window being inforced, it was meant the keep the crowds controlled during the day.
As far as a ride breaking down :mad:, i dont see why there has to be a problem, cant they just create a special RIDE MALFUNCTION fastpass that doesnt have a stated window time.

How would that work? If the ride is down when you return for your fastpass time, the CM exchanges your pass for the malfuntion pass? Interesting idea...

[DizneyFreak2002]

How would that work? If the ride is down when you return for your fastpass time, the CM exchanges your pass for the malfuntion pass? Interesting idea...

No need to do that... If you return during your FP time and the ride is down, CMs are told to allow you in later in the day... It is part of their Fastpass operational reminders...

[DizneyRox]

I've got o imagine the 5 minutes before is to get rd of the loiterers that always go early and argue that it's just 1 minutes. Otherwise, you just print the actual time on the tickets and enforce it.

Gotta be a psychological ploy of some sort.

The pay to play is lready in progress. Fantasmic Package, Candlelight Processional Package, etc. Fastpass is coming. Getting rid of the all-day return is probably a step to open up more capacity.

How so? Well, currently, they have a set number. Once distributed, they can come back at any point. There's probably a large amount or stragglers. If you can stop that, say 5% expire out, you can open up 5% more to be distributed.

[ChipNDale79]

You know that look on people's faces when you tell them you are going to Disney again, and they ask you how can you afford to go so much? Our response as always been, "It's not as expensive as you think it is."

Well if some of the NextGen things are true and you have to pay for Fast Passes, we won't really be able to respond that way.

[PopPhan]

It's bad enough I feel that green envy sneak up everytime I see folks on a GF bus or a Poly bus. That's a perk I'll never be able to afford. Shoot, I can't squeeze out an extra $200 for the ParkHopper option on 4 tickets. For Disney to actually sell a FastPass system would push me and many other away FOR GOOD. It would mean that others are taking up more fastpass slots, which means fewer for me and even longer stand-by lines.

I like the idea that when someone walks into WDW or DL, they are equal with the person right next to them. Same lines for rides, same lines for food, same chance to get a spot for parades, same chance at a fastpass. If they can make you pay for fastpass, they can make you pay for parade spots, firework spots, and everything else. Don't like that at all.

Major league :ditto: here!!!!

[PopPhan]

I've got o imagine the 5 minutes before is to get rd of the loiterers that always go early and argue that it's just 1 minutes. Otherwise, you just print the actual time on the tickets and enforce it.

Gotta be a psychological ploy of some sort.

Now, the loiterers will show up 5 minutes before the 5 minute early mark!! :D


The pay to play is lready in progress. Fantasmic Package, Candlelight Processional Package, etc. Fastpass is coming. Getting rid of the all-day return is probably a step to open up more capacity.

How so? Well, currently, they have a set number. Once distributed, they can come back at any point. There's probably a large amount or stragglers. If you can stop that, say 5% expire out, you can open up 5% more to be distributed.

You have a valid point here, but in all the cases you state, and for all of those "events," you can still wait in the Stand-By lines if you don't want to 'Pay-To-Play.'

Where the 'Pay-To-Play' idea irks me is when you take into account the "parties" in MK -- MNSSHP, MVMCP, etc. -- they close down the park earlier than normal closing time, allow people in hours before the "party," and herd those not paying out.

Sorry for going 'Off Topic' here!!! :offtopic: My bad!!

[FamilyBand1]

This bummed me out. We go all the time and I like having the flexibility to having the day to use the fast passes that I've raced around to get for my family.
I can make the times, but I liked having the freedom, since it's not always possible to make it in that hour window.
To be honest, I never really like the fast passes to begin with. Just throw us all in the same line like the good ol' days. (Can't do that now if they can make money off of fast passes though)

[DizneyRox]

I do beleive that some form of fastpass will remain free. The pat part could be...

a. Done in your hotel room, you pick the ride(s) the night before, and get something delivered in the morning with your passes.
b. Based on your accomodations, value gets one per two hour period, moderates gets two, deluxe gets three. All tied to your room key/tickets, so nobody knows you're better than everyone else.
c. A front of the line pass like sold at Universal.

I can think of all sorts of ways to monetize the system. People will pay, especially if they start enforcing the return windows.

[MrPeetrie]

I hope Disney doesn't start charging for FastPasses, employing the old ATM philosophy: get them hooked on it then charge them for the convenience later.

When I tell family and friends about how wonderful WDW is, I always cite their FREE FastPass system as a perk. Years ago, we went to Six Flag (when they purchased Geauga Lake) and we paid $12 per person for their QueBot. We were outraged, but it was the only way to ride any rides. (That was a poorly run park.)

Currently, because we aren't paying extra for FastPasses, the guests are likelier to be more lenient if the system isn't perfect. If we are asked to pay extra for it, we will DEMAND it operates perfectly. We will become irate if it isn't perfect!

And Disney will lose a little more Magic in the process.

[Eran_wolf]

I think people are getting extremely worked up over a lot of speculation.

By trade I work in IT logistics and I can tell you that EVERYTHING is now leaning towards automation and logistics. That being said, logistics doesn't work unless there is strict structure in place. Rules must be followed in order to maintain flow. Disney spends millions every year monitoring queue times and think tanking ways to make lines shorter and more enjoyable for guests. The future of logistics is RFID chips. Credit cards already have them and Disney is already implementing it with Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom. The NextGen pass will most likely be this technology implemented into your ticket. No longer will there be a FastPass ticket station but simply a kiosk in which you wave your ticket at and it will program the chip with your rid return time. In order for this to work properly and crowd distribution to be maintained the return time must be enforced.

Now, that said I do not think Disney will start charging for anything FastPass related. Not in the current economy anyway. They are already fighting tooth and nail to keep customer numbers up. What they will do is try as they always have to make the parks run more efficiently. You can't please everyone and if this means angering the 10% (high estimate) of guests who even knew FastPasses were good after the return window then thats something they have to do. They are the innovator that ALL other amusements parks want to be. To stay that way things must change and people don't like change.

My family and I always say the same thing when visiting other amusement parks. "We had a good time, but it wasn't Disney."

Sorry that was so long but I think we all need to wait and see what happens. I will be at the Magic Kingdom on March 7 and 8 so I will tell you all first hand what happens and probably have quite a few stories of irate guests to share!! :)

[badkitty]

I like the idea that when someone walks into WDW or DL, they are equal with the person right next to them. Same lines for rides, same lines for food, same chance to get a spot for parades, same chance at a fastpass. If they can make you pay for fastpass, they can make you pay for parade spots, firework spots, and everything else. Don't like that at all.

But they already do charge for parade/fireworks spots. For example, the Fireworks party at MK and the cruises. Plus the viewing areas at IllumiNations for special paid events and special VIP viewing areas for the MK parades. Typically there is some other service provided like dessert but the system is in place.

[ronandjulie]

Finally! Is it really that hard of a concept to understand? It's design is to allow a certsain amount of guests in a specific window. If many people used them at later times it reduces the FP effectiveness. I love it. Enforce it! No 5 minutes early. No 15 minutes late. just make the window larger than an hour maybe. Perhaps change the calculations and make it an 1 1/2 hour window? They should also do something similar to Universal and maybe put barcodes on the FP and give the CM a scanner to validate the FP. There are going to be a lot of upset people at first but it's only going to be the people that tried to "cheat" the system in the 1st place. Look how many people still use the "I'm trying to get to my family" excuse to cut in line. I know that Disney is all about the magic, but if it ruins the magic for a few to increase the magic for countless thousands, so be it. I love it!

[joonyer]

. . . . I know that Disney is all about the magic, but if it ruins the magic for a few to increase the magic for countless thousands, so be it. I love it!

EXACTLY! This is the key point of enforcing the return window times. It may take away the convenience benefit (a little extra magic) from the relatively few numbers of guests who enjoyed the privilege (while it lasted) of being able to come back outside the window. BUT, it will increase the magic for the vast majority of guests by making the FastPass system work for everyone as efficiently as it was designed, reducing overall wait times. Think about this: For those of us who used or FastPasses outside our windows (I was one of them), we actually made the FastPass line longer for the guests who were entering the FastPass line within their prescribed window at the same time as we showed up. The more people that did that, the less efficient the flow of the FastPass lines.

I think that's why Disney has decided to enforce the rules now, the number of guests using the "privilege" has begun to measurably slow down the FastPass lines. When only a few guests were doing it, it didn't make that much of a difference, but as the word got (unofficially) spread, more and more people started taking advantage of the non-enforcement). Imagine if the FastPass system had originally been designed with a pass that just said return anytime after X:XX o'clock. That would not have had any controlling or limiting effect on the FastPass lines, and would have made no sense. The point of the system is to control how many people enter the FastPass lines at certain times, to keep those lines relatively short throughout the day. Having no set return time defeats the purpose of the system.

It's less convenient for me personally, but enforcing the return times makes the parks work more efficiently overall.

[Goes4FastPass]

This change will simply be <snip> on earth for families.

If we don't have enough to manage on WDW 'vacations' now we have to make sure kids get all their peeing done in time to be exactly in that hour of the return time. And if things are behind where today's ADRs are booked then we'll just not eat or not ride or go someplace else.

And I know the wuwuls are wuwuls fanantcis think this is great but it isn't "magical" and Fastpasses are not a fairy dust perk from Tinkerbell. They're a answer to a problem: Long lines.

Disney vacations cost thousands of dollars while every season it seems planners are sitting arounf conferene rooms brainstorming, "How else can we charge them more and give them less?"

What's next? The return of 'Character Caravans' in place of extra magic hours? If that happends I'm sure there will be discussion board folks who rave, "Whee! More magic from Mickey!"

[DizneyFreak2002]

This change will simply be <snip> on earth for families.

If we don't have enough to manage on WDW 'vacations' now we have to make sure kids get all their peeing done in time to be exactly in that hour of the return time. And if things are behind where today's ADRs are booked then we'll just not eat or not ride or go someplace else.

And I know the wuwuls are wuwuls fanantcis think this is great but it isn't "magical" and Fastpasses are not a fairy dust perk from Tinkerbell. They're a answer to a problem: Long lines.

Disney vacations cost thousands of dollars while every season it seems planners are sitting arounf conferene rooms brainstorming, "How else can we charge them more and give them less?"

What's next? The return of 'Character Caravans' in place of extra magic hours? If that happends I'm sure there will be discussion board folks who rave, "Whee! More magic from Mickey!"

It has already been mentioned there will be some exceptions... Dining delays are one of the exceptions, just don't expect to use a 1:00 to 2:00 return window FP at 9:00... So you can keep your ADRs, just beware of your return time, if your ADR is at 5:30 and the return window is 5-6, then you probably shouldn't get the FP because that isn't a delay in dining, that is totally on you trying to circumvent the enforced policy... Also, a child needing to use the bathroom can be deemed a personal emergency, which is another exception...

[Gator]

The pay to play is lready in progress. Fantasmic Package, Candlelight Processional Package, etc.

One of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW during Christmas the last two trips. I love the decorations, love the extra stuff at Epcot, love the Processional. But I don't like paying an extra $240 for my family to enjoy the MVMCP - so do I pay the cash, or go on the days of no party and get squashed by the crowds doing the same. Again, why I don't like going in Dec as much as I used to. And if you make me start paying for Fastpass, I'm history.

[robnadina]

I have been reading through all the comments and opinions left over the last couple of days and I can see it from all sides. Now I go to DL once a month and only get to WDW every other year so I am not affected by the changes as much as other people (not yet anyway). However, my DH and I do get FP's and return later in the day. My DD is only 3 and cant ride Space Mountain or Star Tours and she has a hard time understanding why she has to wait with Daddy in her stroller while Mommy is on a ride. So DH and I get our FP's and use them while DD is napping in her stroller. We dont do it to "ruin the flow of a line", we do it to make the day enjoyable for all 3 of us. There are people who collect FP's. We dont do that. We do stick to 1 ride at a time. We simply make the most of our time in the parks with our DD and dont want to miss out on precious family time.
It isnt uncommon to have a 60 min wait for Space Mountain at 11am on a Saturday in early March at DL. There are many more locals in the parks than tourists which is a huge difference over WDW. I like having a flexible day at the parks. Time can get away from you while having fun. What is listed as a 30 min wait can be closer to 50 min (this has happened to me in the past) causing you to inadvertantly miss your FP window.
I will wait to pass judgement on this new rule until it has been up and running for a bit, and maybe when it is implemented, there will be more flexibilty within certain guidelines and everyone from strict FP window followers to those that return 6 hrs after their window will be happy :mickey:

[Mammabruski]

I sadly don't have time to wade through all the pages of this thread... Can someone post a link to the "Official Announcement" or the equivalent that Disney put out there concerning this issue? Thanks!

[Eran_wolf]

I sadly don't have time to wade through all the pages of this thread... Can someone post a link to the "Official Announcement" or the equivalent that Disney put out there concerning this issue? Thanks!

There hasn't been an official announcement. That's half the problem, it's all speculation at this point. There are a lot of reliable sources saying it's happening but nothing official.

[Mammabruski]

There hasn't been an official announcement. That's half the problem, it's all speculation at this point. There are a lot of reliable sources saying it's happening but nothing official.

Thanks! I'll believe that this policy will be enforced when I have reports of it actually happening! :mickey:

[DizneyFreak2002]

I sadly don't have time to wade through all the pages of this thread... Can someone post a link to the "Official Announcement" or the equivalent that Disney put out there concerning this issue? Thanks!


There hasn't been an official announcement. That's half the problem, it's all speculation at this point. There are a lot of reliable sources saying it's happening but nothing official.


Thanks! I'll believe that this policy will be enforced when I have reports of it actually happening! :mickey:

There is no need for an official announcement, it has ALWAYS been the policy... All you have to do is look at your FP ticket... 1) RETURN ANYTIME BETWEEN then it states the times.. and 2)PLEASE ENTER THE FASTPASS ENTRANCE AT THE ATTRACTION BETWEEN THE TIMES NOTED ON THE OTHER SIDE (printed on the back)... Disney management just chose not to enforce it...

Also, a few pages back, this was posted:

"In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney’s FASTPASS Service plays an important role in our Guests’ ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this favorite feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their FASTPASS, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. Exceptions can be granted for situations such as an attraction downtime, a delay in meal service or personal emergency."

This has been sent out to CMs the other day...

And on WDW's website regarding FP:

To Use Disney's FASTPASS Service:


Look for the "Disney's FASTPASS® Distribution" sign near the entrance of an attraction.
Check the "Return Time" displayed on the sign.

The sign will indicate the time you would return to enjoy the attraction using a FASTPASS ticket.
For attractions, the return time is a one-hour window (e.g., 1:10 p.m. to 2:10 p.m.), so you don't have to be there exactly at a given time. For shows, your return time will be for a specific performance.


If the return time is one that works for you, just insert your admission ticket into the Disney's FASTPASS Service machine. (You may use your Walt Disney World Resort admission ticket, readmission ticket, Disney Resort Hotel keycard or Annual Passport.)
A FASTPASS ticket will emerge with your return time printed on it. Now you're free to go and enjoy the rest of the theme park!
Go back to the FASTPASS ticketholder entrance when your return time rolls around, show your ticket to the Cast Member and enjoy the attraction with a minimal wait.

I bolded the important parts, the parts that show the official policy has always been to return during the time on your pass, not when ever you feel like it... Now they are enforcing this policy... And the first part is key, IF THE TIME WORKS FOR YOU.. which is what a lot of us have been saying all along.. If you KNOW you have an ADR at 5:30 and return time is 5-6, then you don't get the FP... It's simple to understand...

[Goes4FastPass]

Oh you mean this is just the latest from those neighbors of peole who heard it from former part time cast members who wish Disney would get real mean and make everybody march in step? The people who every fall have a little must not enter MNSSHP until 7:30 because "Oh that's what t says on the ticket!" fit?

I so hope Walt Disney World never becomes the place those people wish it would be.

That approach would be bad for Mickey, bad for the guests, bad for travel agents, and bad for the stock price

[DizneyFreak2002]

Oh you mean this is just the latest from those neighbors of peole who heard it from former part time cast members who wish Disney would get real mean and make everybody march in step? The people who every fall have a little must not enter MNSSHP until 7:30 because "Oh that's what t says on the ticket!" fit?

I so hope Walt Disney World never becomes the place those people wish it would be.

That approach would be bad for Mickey, bad for the guests, bad for travel agents, and bad for the stock price

No, this is from management to CMs.. I guess you failed to see the part of the post that was sent to CMs on Wednesday... This goes into effect on March 7th, as per management...

[Melanie]

Thanks! I'll believe that this policy will be enforced when I have reports of it actually happening! :mickey:

It's official, as reported earlier in this thread by our moderator Ron who is a CM, and always has reliable information.

[WDWdriver]

Oh you mean this is just the latest from those neighbors of peole who heard it from former part time cast members who wish Disney would get real mean and make everybody march in step? The people who every fall have a little must not enter MNSSHP until 7:30 because "Oh that's what t says on the ticket!" fit?


All WDW Cast Members (I am one) have been notified via their management teams and via a message posted on the Cast Member information web site that effective March 7, 2012, guests will be expected to return to FP attractions during the FP return window. There will be some exceptions allowed, but generally if you miss your window you will be directed to the standby queue.

[Imagineer1981]

I really feel like everyone is missing the point here. I would be willing to bet 95% of the guests who go to WDW obey the rules and go within the 1 hour window. We need to remember that we on the blogs are the Disney nuts who know all these little secrets, and at there is no way all of us are in the parks a the same time, so I'd say only a handful come to an attraction late. I really don't think it affects the ride, and from working at Space Mountain, I have to say in a given day, I probably only saw 1 to 2 families that were late.

The main reason for the open ended policy is to avoid guest issues. What if your daughter gets sick and you miss your window? Your server takes forever and your dinner is late so you miss your FP time? You park hop and it takes longer to get back then you thought. There are a hundred reasons why you could miss that 1 hour window. Disney did it right by letting guests have some flexibility. I personally will be sad to see it go

[DizneyRox]

really feel like everyone is missing the point here. I would be willing to bet 95% of the guests who go to WDW obey the rules and go within the 1 hour window. We need to remember that we on the blogs are the Disney nuts who know all these little secrets, and at there is no way all of us are in the parks a the same time, so I'd say only a handful come to an attraction late. I really don't think it affects the ride, and from working at Space Mountain, I have to say in a given day, I probably only saw 1 to 2 families that were late.
I'm not so sure of that. If that were true, there would have to be anit-counterfeit measures on the fastpasses, etc. Just like biometric scanning on park tickets, they need to curb the abuse of the system.

In reading another Disney site, there's mention that Disney actually uses the fastpass system to control guest flow, allowing staffing changes (adding staff or removing staff to control costs), etc. I'll be honest, it never occured to me that Disney could use the system to help control when they would need a certain level of staff at a particular attraction, or even help adjust customer experience towards some majic ride number per guest per day. It was an interesting read frankly...

I'm all for following/enforcing the rules. I'm just hoping this doesn't turn into a nightmare at the queue lines. They could easily barcode the fastpasses and use a scanner to control who's in or out. But getting those that don't belong out of the way needs to not be a problem, for the employees and the guests just trying to get in.

[ronandjulie]

What will happen if the attraction is temporarily down during your FP window? Lotta bugs to work out with new enforcement.

[DizneyFreak2002]

What will happen if the attraction is temporarily down during your FP window? Lotta bugs to work out with new enforcement.

As per the memo sent out to CMs a few posts up, attraction downtime is an exception...

[ronandjulie]

As per the memo sent out to CMs a few posts up, attraction downtime is an exception...

I get that. I'm just saying that's going to be rough for the CM in the FP line. They will have to check your FP, see that it's past time, but have to know if and when the attraction might have been down. I just see a lot of confusion and backups with the current FP system. As much as people don't want to pay for FP like Universal's system, Universal's system works because it's not time based and it utilzes a scanner to determine validity. Very smooth process and it allows you all the freedom you need to enjoy you're day, and it's free to guests staying on property. I wonder if that's in Disney's crystal ball?

[DizneyFreak2002]

I get that. I'm just saying that's going to be rough for the CM in the FP line. They will have to check your FP, see that it's past time, but have to know if and when the attraction might have been down. I just see a lot of confusion and backups with the current FP system. As much as people don't want to pay for FP like Universal's system, Universal's system works because it's not time based and it utilzes a scanner to determine validity. Very smooth process and it allows you all the freedom you need to enjoy you're day, and it's free to guests staying on property. I wonder if that's in Disney's crystal ball?

I assume you are talking about another attraction in the park... Maybe Ron can correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Operations already had some sort of notification in place where most of the ride attraction CMs get some sort of notice about another ride being down in the park...

I understand what you are saying... If there isn't some sort of procedure in place, I can see confusion too...

And honestly, I like Universal's system... I know people don't like to pay extra, I am one of them, but it seems like Disney is moving toward: if you want certain perks, you are going to have to pay... And it does seem Disney is slowly moving to that kind of a system: want to use a FP anytime you want?? Then cough up $45 bucks, otherwise use the current system in place and show up at your printed times...

I think this is to slowly get the public used to a return window, then slowly introduce a pay system... And I say slowly so that guests are conditioned and it isn't just thrown at them... Guests wouldn't even know what it them...

[Pocahontas]

I know it's been said, but I love the new rules of the FP time enforcement. The last few years I've went to WDW, the FP lines have been feeling more and more like stand by lines. At first I thought Disney was giving out too many FPs for each time slot until I figured out people could just come back any time they wanted.

In my opinion, people not following the rules (even though Disney allowed it) makes the whole FP experience not work like it should.

I'll not write and complain about the change, I'll be writing to say thank you.:thumbsup:

[Ian]

I know it's been said, but I love the new rules of the FP time enforcement. The last few years I've went to WDW, the FP lines have been feeling more and more like stand by lines. At first I thought Disney was giving out too many FPs for each time slot until I figured out people could just come back any time they wanted. There are a fixed number of Fastpasses given out in a day for any one attraction, so there's no way the Fastpass lines would feel longer just because a few people chose to use their Fastpasses after the window.

[Pocahontas]

There are a fixed number of Fastpasses given out in a day for any one attraction, so there's no way the Fastpass lines would feel longer just because a few people chose to use their Fastpasses after the window.

I hear what you're saying, but the last few years our family and others we spoke to all said the FP lines have been much longer than they remember them being in the past. This may only be true if your FP was for later in the day and if many others didn't go at their 'appointed time', than that could absolutely make the FP time longer.

[Ian]

I hear what you're saying, but the last few years our family and others we spoke to all said the FP lines have been much longer than they remember them being in the past. This may only be true if your FP was for later in the day and if many others didn't go at their 'appointed time', than that could absolutely make the FP time longer.It would be incredibly unlikely that enough people would come back after their window that you'd notice the line longer. Also, don't forget those people weren't in line earlier, which means the line was shorter then.

The real reason(s) I think the Fastpass lines are longer (and I agree they are) is two fold ... one, I think it's very popular and Disney has started giving out more of them per hour than they really should and two, because I think a large number of people counterfeit them.

Yes, I realize that's incredibly sad, but I also think it's accurate.

[gratuspater]

I'm not sure what has spurred Disney to start enforcing the return times, but I'm glad to see it. Disney, and other guests, should not have to accommodate anyone who just didn't want to return back in their time window. They do accommodate for ride failures already. And a 5 min. pre window, and 15 min post window policy seems reasonable to me. We have traveled by our selves and with our young children, and if we couldn't make a return time we gave our tickets away. As far as personal emergencies, I'm sure there will be accommodations made. And I'm also sure, people will try to abuse it. I realize these vacations are very expensive, and I do think there is a trend of increasing prices and lowering services, which is aggravating, but nobody is forcing me to go to Disney either, I can and will vacation elsewhere when services are no longer acceptable. This includes selling our DVC. I hope for the cast members sake, that anyone who doesn't like this policy change, takes it up with management and not vent on the cast members. After all it was managements choice to be lax on this policy, and they are now the ones reversing it. As far as few quests showing up late, that may not be noticed in the fast pass line, but what about a whole tour group? If they get their fast pass first thing in the morning, then it would essentially be good all day, so someone getting a fast pass only valid towards the end of the day, could potentially have a significantly longer wait.

[BrerGnat]

I think Fastpass lines feel longer simply because Disney has gone overboard on offering FP on rides where, because of the way the ride loads, FP cannot be "fast". A perfect example of this is Toy Story Midway Mania. They can only dispatch so many vehicles every minute. They can't just hold the standby line to let all the FP people board first, so this line seems longer, as do many other attraction FP lines.

Disney would be wise to eliminate FP on certain attractions, and offer more single rider lines. Disneyland has figured this out, why is WDW so far behind on this concept?

[WDWdriver]

..... and two, because I think a large number of people counterfeit them.


Going off topic here, but it's funny you should mention that, Ian. I don't believe there is a lot of counterfeiting going on. But a couple of years ago some bogus fastpasses were showing up. The front side was pretty good, but there was an obvious error on the back. Also, the card stock wasn't right.

Another time someone was trying to use an "Executive FastPass", supposedly issued only to Disney executive staff and valid at any time on any attraction. That one didn't fool anyone ... a lot of work for no gain.

[DizneyFreak2002]

I never have seen a FP line really backed up sans TSMM, which is just horrible with capacity anyway... The only times I have seen any kind of back log with FP is after a parade, usually Splash Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain, and even then it is kind of manageable...

[MrPeetrie]

Truth is: however the new rules are enforced I'll be fine with. If they adhere to the stricter policy, I'll make it fit into our planning. And I won't complain --UNLESS they start charging a fee. Then no system will make me happy and I will complain. I just hope someone is listening.

[Goes4FastPass]

Can you imagine what would happen if EVERYONE who had a Fastpass to an attraction decided to return to the attraction and enter the Fastpass Return Line at the exact same moment?

People will say to themselves, "Whoa! I should have came back earlier." There would be total chaos! Before you know it Nemo would be friends with Shamu and Shrek and Goofy would be going to Busch Gardens together!The end of world as we know it!

Wow!

[caryrae]

If they are going to give an extra 5 min before and 15 min after the window why not just print the window as an hour and 20 minutes on the FP? Seems like that would be easier on the CM and guests to see the exact times instead of doing the math for the 5 and 15 min extra time. The math shouldn't be that hard but mistakes can happen.

[DisneyGiant]

It would be incredibly unlikely that enough people would come back after their window that you'd notice the line longer. Also, don't forget those people weren't in line earlier, which means the line was shorter then.

The real reason(s) I think the Fastpass lines are longer (and I agree they are) is two fold ... one, I think it's very popular and Disney has started giving out more of them per hour than they really should and two, because I think a large number of people counterfeit them.

Yes, I realize that's incredibly sad, but I also think it's accurate.

Just recently, we got in behind a tour group of at least 100 or so people at Toy Story Mania FP. It made the line a "slow pass" line. A cast member told us that it was going to easily be a one hour wait for fast pass.

So we left (as we had an ADR in Epcot within 2 hours), and I went to guest relations to see if we could get a fast pass for the next day. We had gotten these fast passes the minute we walked in the park (9ish) & the return time was something like 4:30!

Well - she politely told me no - it was "tough luck" and that they couldn't give out any extra fast passes for Toy Story Mania, as it was "off the grid."

Toy Story Mania is one of the worst rides to get fast passes for - how is it reasonable to tell folks to come back 7 hours later - and even then - the wait is 1 hour?

I wrote to guest services when we got home. I got a followup phone call plus 5 free 4 day park hoppers for my troubles. My sister-in-law received 10 fast passes to any attraction in the future, including Toy Story Mania. We used them there - making sure no tour groups were in the vicintiy.

My point being ;) that your point is probably right on - with the exception of Toy Story Mania!!!

We are folks that consistently use our fast passes after the return window (that day we didn't). Why - because we were allowed to. Now since we won't be - we'll adjust accordingly. Not thrilled with it - but - if they are now going to enforce it - we'll deal.

Need to add - no way am I scheduling attraction times from home. Well - wait - I take it back - maybe I will for TOY STORY MANIA!!!! :)

[Ian]

Yeah, well TSM is a special case ... honestly, I think they just hand out way too many Fastpasses for that attraction. Not to mention that the Fastpass really isn't all that fast. You end up waiting in essentially the second half of the line anyway.

Truth is ... as cute as that attraction is, I'm really starting to hate it because of the insane obsession people seem to have with it. It's cute, but it ain't all that!

[DizneyFreak2002]

TSMM also has terrible capacity and they only made it worse with the air gates...

[Main Street Jim]

The real reason(s) I think the Fastpass lines are longer (and I agree they are) is two fold ... one, I think it's very popular and Disney has started giving out more of them per hour than they really should and two, because I think a large number of people counterfeit them.

Yes, I realize that's incredibly sad, but I also think it's accurate.The number of FP's *available* during the day for any one attraction is 80% of the ride's hourly capacity. You'll see this mostly during "busy days" where FastPasses run out early in the day (Toy Story Mania is a good example). Disney hasn't "given out more than they really should" over the years; it's always been that 80%.

When we're at the "Merge" point (where FP and standby merge together), it's 80 FP guests (if there's that many in line), for every 20 Stand-by guests, of course, not trying to split up parties if they were at the end of the 80 or 20. If there's no one in the FP queue, the stand-by line will move quickly.

[WDWdriver]

When we're at the "Merge" point (where FP and standby merge together), it's 80 FP guests (if there's that many in line), for every 20 Stand-by guests, of course, not trying to split up parties if they were at the end of the 80 or 20. If there's no one in the FP queue, the stand-by line will move quickly.

Yep. I'm confirming what Jim said. It's 80 FP guests for every 20 Standbys. And the "merge" position is usually the least enjoyable place to be for Attractions CMs. It's often hard for Standby guests to watch as you let 80 other guests go ahead - especially if they don't understand how FastPass works. So say something nice as you pass by!

[Ian]

The number of FP's *available* during the day for any one attraction is 80% of the ride's hourly capacity.So clarify this for me ... They give out 80% of the ride's hourly capacity in Fastpasses per day or per hour?

In other words, say a ride can handle 10,000 guests an hour (totally made up number ... no clue what reality would be for this). Do they give out a total of 8,000 Fastpasses in the entire day or 8,000 per hour for a total of 80,000 (assuming the park is open 10 hours a day)?

[renecat]

I'm not worried about the 5 min early because we've never been admitted early but I'm not liking the 15 min after part. We often show up late for our FP return time.

I agree with you. who is it really hurting letting you show up late. I have done stand by and watched people enter the fast pass and never got upset about it. Isn't it enought that you have to plan your time around dinning without now having to maybe get out of a line your in order to make your fast pass time. If it's not one thing it another that someone is alway complaining about. It's the World your suppose to have a good time and not worry so much about the little stuff.

[DisneyGiant]

Yeah, well TSM is a special case ... honestly, I think they just hand out way too many Fastpasses for that attraction. Not to mention that the Fastpass really isn't all that fast. You end up waiting in essentially the second half of the line anyway.

Truth is ... as cute as that attraction is, I'm really starting to hate it because of the insane obsession people seem to have with it. It's cute, but it ain't all that!

Agree totally. We try to at least visit TSM twice in our typical stay - and each time we try to minimize the wait time by getting the fast passes first thing in the morning.

In addition to all the "issues" people have stated about TSM - you can add another - one of the only "rides" the littler kids can do at DHS. The rest are mostly for the older kids. So you've got almost the entire park attendence trying to get on it.

DHS needs more ride-like attractions - but that is a differnt topic for another thread :mickey:

[WDWdriver]

So clarify this for me ... They give out 80% of the ride's hourly capacity in Fastpasses per day or per hour?



It's per day, but it's a lot more complicated than that. Let's say an attraction's OHRC (operational hourly ride capacity) is 2000 (a more realistic number), and the park will be open for 10 hours as you said.

So you might think that the available FPs for the day will be 16,000 (80% of 2000 X 10). But no, it's going to be less than that because we can't distribute FPs during the last couple of hours. Can't have return times later than park closing.

The printed return window automatically moves through the day based on a running calculation so that the 80% return rate is not exceeded at any given point in time. This continues until all FPs have been distributed or an arbitrary cutoff time has been reached. Theoretically then, the CMs can maintain the flow of 80 FP guests to 20 Standbys during any particular hour without the length of the FP queue getting too long. I say "theoretically" because during the afternoons the FP queue length tends to grow considerably. One can argue that this is because of FP guests returning later than their window, but I am not aware of any actual studies that verify that.

Finally, another wrinkle. The Attractions managers can "tweak" the distribution rate and time. They can set the system to distribute more or less than the 80%. They can also build in a shutoff time after which FPs are no longer available. This might happen if they are short of manpower and need to shut down some FP positions late in the day.

So as you eagerly approach the ride's FP return entrance you will never quite know what to expect. Will you walk on? ... or wait half an hour?

[AgentC]

Ron- Thanks for the information. Very interesting to learn how it works.

[Mufasa]

It's per day, but it's a lot more complicated than that. Let's say an attraction's OHRC (operational hourly ride capacity) is 2000 (a more realistic number), and the park will be open for 10 hours as you said.

It actually isn't really terribly complicated- one of the factors that actually controls the fastpass distribution rate is the current standby wait time.

For example, if our hourly ride capacity we estimate is 2000 guests per hour, we take 80 percent of that (or whatever capacity we've reserved for fastpass) so 1600 and then divide that by the current standby wait time (in minutes)

So if the wait is one hour, that gives us roughly 26.6 guests per minute using our example of 2000 guests per hour total capacity. So when we've handed out 26.6 fastpass tickets, bump the return window 1 minute (to slightly simplify things the smallest window used generally is 5 minutes so after we've distributed 133 fastpasses the return window moves 5 minutes).

If there is a long wait for the attraction, say 90 minutes then using the same formula we reduce the number of fastpasses that are handed out before we bump up the return window. Likewise if the standby wait is short, that means we have unused capacity so hand out more fastpasses before we bump up the return window.

[Mufasa]

The challenge for CMs is to meet or exceed the hourly ride capacity targets that are set.

To calculate ride capacity, all you need to know is the dispatch interval and the number of guests served in that interval.

So take Toy Story Mania for example- the dispatch interval target might be 38 seconds. In Toy Story Mania's case, they are actually aiming to dispatch two vehicles every 38 seconds. Each vehicle can hold 8 guests, so that is 16 guests at full capacity.

But think about the seating arrangement- how many of those seats actually go empty? 38 seconds also goes by quickly (especially with guests that aren't paying attention or struggling to get situated and then CMs have to go through safety restraint checks, etc). And that is assuming that all of the gun turrets are working, or you have working screens (if a seat is inoperable then that has a dramatic effect on the ride capacity over time).

[WDWdriver]

It actually isn't really terribly complicated- one of the factors that actually controls the fastpass distribution rate is the current standby wait time.



Thank you for bringing up the standby wait time as part of the equation. And thank you, Mufasa, for contributing to this topic. For those of you who don't know, Mufasa has a rather, shall we say, unique insight into the operation of Disney parks and attractions. We are always happy to have his input.

Perhaps sometime in the future we should discuss the calculation of those standby wait times, a source of irritation and frustration to me.

[Mufasa]

Just for reference on the subject of paying for Fastpass- at least at Disneyland Paris there were experiments with a paid VIP Fastpass option for resort guests.

There actually are several enhanced fastpass options at the Paris resort for those staying on-site (in addition to the free fastpass option for all park guests):

First, there is a Disneyland Hotel Bonus Fastpass- for all guests staying at the Disneyland hotel there is a single-use fastpass that can be used during a guest stay for any fastpass attraction (one per guest per paid night stay)- there also are usually some restrictions (for example valid all day except between 1-4pm)

Then there is the VIP Fastpass- this is an unlimited, multiple-use fastpass that has the dates of your stay on the ticket itself and is given to guests (one per guest per stay) in either the Castle Club or a suite at one of the resort hotels.

Finally, in 2009 at both Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong there were tests of a Premium Fastpass- this basically was the same VIP Fastpass option above sold to all hotel guests (through hotel concierge) at a pretty steep premium- for Paris when it debuted it was somewhere around 80+ Euro per person/per day and also was capped at a maximum of 160 per day if memory serves.

Also, interesting to note that Paris very strictly enforces fastpass return windows and the return windows are only 30 minutes.

The idea of an enhanced fastpass for the domestic parks was available at Disneyland for about 5 years (from about 2002 to 2007)- if you booked a travel package with admission via AAA for a Disneyland resort hotel then you could get an "unlimited" enhanced fastpass option. It was unlimited in the sense that you could hold multiple fastpasses at the same time (so if you grabbed a fastpass for Space Mountain you didn't have to wait to grab one for Indiana Jones and could get one immediately but it didn't mean you could just hop into any fastpass line over and over)

[BrerGnat]

The idea of an enhanced fastpass for the domestic parks was available at Disneyland for about 5 years (from about 2002 to 2007)- if you booked a travel package with admission via AAA for a Disneyland resort hotel then you could get an "unlimited" enhanced fastpass option. It was unlimited in the sense that you could hold multiple fastpasses at the same time (so if you grabbed a fastpass for Space Mountain you didn't have to wait to grab one for Indiana Jones and could get one immediately but it didn't mean you could just hop into any fastpass line over and over)

Last year, when Star Tours II and Little Mermaid opened, the hotels of the Disneyland Resort were offering something similar. Each peson staying in the room would get 2 Fastpasses that were good on ANY ride, ANY time during the stay. The reasoning was that trying to ride either of these two rides, in particular, was almost IMPOSSIBLE in the first couple months. I know, because I tried for a long time to be able to actually do it. In fact, DH rode Star Tours only after I went to the park early on a weekday morning. I got to the FP machine, literally, 15 minutes after park opening, and the "FP return time" was 8:55-9:55pm! I went home, and DH returned to the park that night after work to ride. Seriously. Stand by lines for STII were in the 4-5 hour range consistently for weeks!

The Disneyland hotels are currently still offering this "perk". Last time I checked prices online, it was listed as a "special offer" for hotel bookings. We are looking to go either this summer or fall, and with Carsland opening up, this sort of offer will be a MUST. It's a great incentive for people to stay on property, which is harder for Disney to accomplish over there than in Florida.

So, in essence, the FP system is already being used to lure people to choose a Disney property, at least in California. :mickey:

[paragon]

At first its going to be a little chaotic at the return gate I'm sure, but probably not as bad as we are fearing- How many people in reality, actually do know that they have been allowing returns at any time after the FP anyway? I don't think the numbers are that large, are they?
As to "what happens if a ride breaks down"-I imagine, that just like when any other ride breaks down and you are on it, they willl issue another fastpass for you-that would make sense.
I travel with a group of six, four adults, and two children, I generally make all the arrangements, ADRs, shows, daily plans, and I have yet, to run into any issues with missing a window. With all of the new technology, and electronic wait time apps its actually quite easy to plan your way around the parks.. The FP system worked initially, when they enforced the time frames, and it slipped away, so I don't really see a huge issue with this.

[SBETigg]

At first its going to be a little chaotic at the return gate I'm sure, but probably not as bad as we are fearing- How many people in reality, actually do know that they have been allowing returns at any time after the FP anyway? I don't think the numbers are that large, are they?


I think we might be surprised by the number of people who did know that you could show up past your time window to use Fastpass. Now that there are so many Disney dedicated websites and planning forums, I would expect a good number of visitors to know that this was an option by now, enough to have possibly started impacting the system's efficiency.

[Ian]

Finally, another wrinkle. The Attractions managers can "tweak" the distribution rate and time. They can set the system to distribute more or less than the 80%.So this is precisely what I was talking about when I said that I felt like they were handing out too many FP's at TSM.

Since it's now known that managers can alter the amount of FP's distributed for a given attraction, then I'll stand by my original comment. I suspect the managers responsible for TSM are giving out more FP's than they really should for that attraction. It's the only way I can think of to explain why that FP line is always so long.

[MOJoe]

I think we might be surprised by the number of people who did know that you could show up past your time window to use Fastpass. Now that there are so many Disney dedicated websites and planning forums, I would expect a good number of visitors to know that this was an option by now, enough to have possibly started impacting the system's efficiency.

I think this comment gets to the heart of the matter. Enforcing FP return times is all about management. It makes running an attraction much easier if you know in advance exactly how many people will show up in a given hour, plus or minus 20%. ;)
Allowing people the luxury of returning any time after their FP becomes valid alters the equation just enough that there can be shorter or longer wait times. If you are striving for efficiency, say with staffing, this practice does not help.
The problem is that this practice was not only tolerated, but seemingly encouraged by management. Anytime i offered "expired" fastpasses to a CM, i always got a smile and a wave. Never a, "Sorry sir. Please enter the standby line." You didn't have to visit any website to learn that you could go on your merry way and come back any time it suited you. And frankly i loved it.
But if that policy is soon to be dead, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth at the FP return gate. I'll know and follow the "new rule". But i feel sorry for the many people who were taught it was OK to ignore the window, only to be told that Now it is otherwise.

[disneynarula]

Does this mean I can't use my Rock and Roller Coaster FP that I just found from 2009 when we go next year?;)

[disneynarula]

I just spent an hour reading all the posts in this thread. Holy Cow! I had no idea this was such a hot button issue. Have I used a FP after the expiration time? Yes I have. Did I take a FP with a 6-7 window knowing I had a 6:00 ADR? Yea I did. It seems like a lot of people on the boards here knew you could and worked it into their touring plan. I know I did. It was a great way to work the system. I never got a second glance from trying to use an expired FP so I figured it wasn't a big deal. I guess it will just require more planning now. If I have an ADR at 6:00 and I see that the return window for a FP is between 6 and 7 then I won't take a FP. I'll have to use the standby line or just skip it. It's the way FP was designed to work initially.

If it makes lines shorter than that makes life easier in the long run, right? Maybe it will! Yay!

I am just glad I won't be there for the initial implementation of this program. I feel bad for the CM that are going to have to deal with some of the :thedolls: people who will be so sure that they are the exception to the policy. I hope I'm never in line behind cranky people with expired FPs.

I am sure they have a reason for it. I can't imagine the CEOs of WDW sit around looking for ways to "stick it" to their guests.

I am also not sure how this will make more money for Disney. If anything it seems like it will cost more in the beginning to staff a ride more to enforce it.

[DizneyRox]

I am also not sure how this will make more money for Disney. If anything it seems like it will cost more in the beginning to staff a ride more to enforce it.
It's not so much making money, but saving money. Both add to the bottom line, but are achieved differently.

Imagine that Disney doesn't need 5 extra people to staff the ride because they know they won't have a deluge of people close to closing they have to accommodate. Maybe only one person to direct guests away. That's 4 people Disney can send home or have do other things.

[MrPeetrie]

So this is precisely what I was talking about when I said that I felt like they were handing out too many FP's at TSM.

Since it's now known that managers can alter the amount of FP's distributed for a given attraction, then I'll stand by my original comment. I suspect the managers responsible for TSM are giving out more FP's than they really should for that attraction. It's the only way I can think of to explain why that FP line is always so long.

We got to ride Toy Story Mania for the first time last October. We had read so much about it and were so excited to ride it. From boards like InterCOT, we knew to get our FPs immediately upon arrival. Once in Hollywood Studios, I went straight to TSM for FastPasses, while family went to Starring Rolls for breakfast. The FP return time was already at 5:40 p.m. When our return time arrived, we got in the FastPass line and began waiting.

After about 20 minutes, my wife said, "You got us in the wrong line. This must be stand-by."

I figured she was right. I thought we had somehow crossed over into the wrong line somewhere. But not soon after, a CM collected our FastPasses so we were in the correct line. It was just very long.

[brivers222]

I never knew coming back after the fact was an option (until our KTTK guide told us that in December).... So for me this is an enforcement of a policy that I thought already existed... No harm no foul for me on this one!

[Butters]

This change can not happen fast enough... when we were just at MK last week every night the FP line for JC was over 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure this is due to people saving their FP's until the end of the day, as the line was not like this in the early part of the day.

This was also the case for SpM too...

[badkitty]

This change can not happen fast enough... when we were just at MK last week every night the FP line for JC was over 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure this is due to people saving their FP's until the end of the day, as the line was not like this in the early part of the day.

This was also the case for SpM too...

I have to wonder though if the late returnees are significantly altering the fastpass queue. The number of folks who save fastpasses I think is rather small considering how many are distributed and the people returning late would be spread out throughout the day. There are also those guests who don't use their fastpasses at all. I have been to MK many times at night and practically walked right on during my fastpass window.

[waymickey]

I don't like the idea of paying for fast passes. The six flags where I live does just that and it causes the standby lines to be much longer becasue most people are not willing to pay to "ride a ride" after paying an admission to the park. They give a fastpass electronic type handheld and the charge is for the number of people in the party. It cost up to 70$ for a party of 3. They get no wait time windows, when they want to ride a ride they go to the fast pass line and have the machine scanned and on they go. I have never paid for it so I am not sure if there any little rules about how times they can ride or anything else. But it is not a help for keeping lines moving on any ride it is just a luxury for those willing to pay.

[Aurora]

I don't like the idea of paying for fast passes. The six flags where I live does just that and it causes the standby lines to be much longer becasue most people are not willing to pay to "ride a ride" after paying an admission to the park. ... They get no wait time windows, when they want to ride a ride they go to the fast pass line and have the machine scanned and on they go. I have never paid for it so I am not sure if there any little rules about how times they can ride or anything else.

Six Flags actually has a multi-tiered express pass system (FlashPass) -- regular, gold and platinum. The regular works similarly to Disney's FastPass, where you still have to wait the same amount of time you would have if you were in the stand-by line, except you don't have to be in line. The gold reduces wait times, and you can ride twice in a row with the platinum. All three are sold in limited quantites, and they do run out during the day.


I never knew coming back after the fact was an option (until our KTTK guide told us that in December).... So for me this is an enforcement of a policy that I thought already existed... No harm no foul for me on this one!

Me neither! I was always afraid that if we didn't show up, we would be given the naughty treatment.


Perhaps sometime in the future we should discuss the calculation of those standby wait times, a source of irritation and frustration to me.

Boy, did we experience this frustration in June last year! We finally just eyeballed the lines we could and tried to figure out the wait times ourselves. And at the beginning of the Haunted Mansion queue, we were handed one of those red cards that are supposed to help calculate wait times. But we reached the front of the line, we tried to give the card to THREE different CMs -- they kept directing us to another person, and no one would take it!

[Stu29573]

Boy, did we experience this frustration in June last year! We finally just eyeballed the lines we could and tried to figure out the wait times ourselves. And at the beginning of the Haunted Mansion queue, we were handed one of those red cards that are supposed to help calculate wait times. But we reached the front of the line, we tried to give the card to THREE different CMs -- they kept directing us to another person, and no one would take it!

Lol. It has actually gotten to be a joke with with wife about how many times I get handed those cards. I guess I look "reliable" or something. But , yes, I can remember several times when CM's looked at me like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears when I tried to give them the card. Maybe I should have just kept them and sold them on Ebay! :thedolls:

[ronandjulie]

We go to Universal, Busch Gardens and Sea World all of the time. We ALWAYS pay to get the Express Pass or Quick Queue. We love never having to wait in long lines and not having to wait to get a fastpass and return in a certain time frame. Sure, it costs quite a bit, but if you're willing and able to afford it, it is FANTASTIC!!!! I cannot wait rof WDW to offer this pay system! Face it. Some families come to WDW and stay in luxury while others roll pennies for years just to get here. Both familes have a great time. It would be nice to offer this added perk to those who can and are willing to pay for it.

[badkitty]

We go to Universal, Busch Gardens and Sea World all of the time. We ALWAYS pay to get the Express Pass or Quick Queue. We love never having to wait in long lines and not having to wait to get a fastpass and return in a certain time frame. Sure, it costs quite a bit, but if you're willing and able to afford it, it is FANTASTIC!!!! I cannot wait rof WDW to offer this pay system! Face it. Some families come to WDW and stay in luxury while others roll pennies for years just to get here. Both familes have a great time. It would be nice to offer this added perk to those who can and are willing to pay for it.

But as one who rolls my pennies, I don't want to be standing in line for hours at POTC because I can't afford a front of the line pass. I don't go to the places you mentioned above because of this reason.

[Quadstriker]

I'm just not a fan of paid line skipping. One of the nice things about Disney imo is that once you're in the park, everyone is equal*.


*in terms of ride lines I mean.

[ronandjulie]

I'm just not a fan of paid line skipping. One of the nice things about Disney imo is that once you're in the park, everyone is equal*.


*in terms of ride lines I mean.

Don't forget that Universal offers this for "free' when you stay on property. Maybe Disney is going to head in that direction

[joanna71985]

Don't forget that Universal offers this for "free' when you stay on property. Maybe Disney is going to head in that direction

I don't see that happening. Universal only has 3 resorts, while WDW has many.

[disneynarula]

I also have steered away from Universal because of the pay for front of the line privledges. For me, it makes a day ticket not worth the money.

I can't see disney doing it for resort guests only. There are way too many resorts and I don't think it would make the lines any shorter.

I really hope they don't go the way of Universal.

To get back on the OP topic. For all the people who say enforcing the FP window won't reduce lines at FP how do you come to that conclusion?

Say I grab a FP for TSM in the morning. My window is 10:30-11:30. I decide not to use it until 7:00 that night. I am adding a person to the FP line that is not calculated to be in the line at that time. Nobody who had a FP for that current time can take my FP spot in the morning. The closer you get to park closing the longer and longer the line is going to be because more and more people can use FP outside their window. I can see how it may make lines shorter at park opening times but longer and longer as the day goes by.

It may not have a huge effect on ride with continuos loading like Winnie The Pooh or Peter Pan but it has to cause problems on slow loading rides like TSM and Soarin.

[ronandjulie]

I can't wait for WDW to enforce this rule. We are honest guests. We never use our FP outside of their window. We see when our return time is and plan accordingly. it's not like you have bunches of FP in your pocket that you're trying to keep track of. It's one FP for one ride. We have had many FP that we didn't use because plans changed before our window came. Oh well. We didn't manipulate the system and use it later. FP is a great system and it's fair. The only reason it fails is becuase people cheat. I'm going to get some flack for posting my feelings but it's worth it. My family has AP to all of the theme parks. WDW is the most expensive of them. We NEVER go to WDW in the summer because of the crowds and the abused FP system is pointless. If you read other threads and other sites, you will see that the adhering to the FP window is just the start of something bigger and not the final answer to the long wait time problem. I don't pretend to speak for the suits at WDW, but if there is a definite market for paying for FP, I'm sure they will capitalize on it. Some people on this site might not like paying for front of the line passes, but it seems to be working well for every other theme park in the entire country.

[eam]

How so? Well, currently, they have a set number. Once distributed, they can come back at any point. There's probably a large amount or stragglers. If you can stop that, say 5% expire out, you can open up 5% more to be distributed.

Exactly! So, it should open the rides up for more fastpasses.
As stated in so many previous posts, I didn't know (until reading on Intercot) that you could return after your stated time. If I didn't make it during my time, I threw the fastpass away. If my not returning allows someone else to get a fastpass, I'm all for it.

[AmandaChan]

Just chiming in, it wasn't until our second to last trip that my DH told me that we can use the FP whenever we wanted after the start time and it had been that way for years. I never understood what the point of printing a time was if you could just return whenever? So I guess I will not have a problem with this system... plus if I get a FP for an attraction, that's b/c I really want to ride it! The sooner the better. I just hope they don't mess with being able to get another one after a certain close time frame while you're waiting for your other one. FP system obviously works and that's what makes WDW ... WDW. I'm sure it will not be as bad as some will think. They should definitely consider posting signs on the machines... beginning March 7th (or whatever) you will not be able ot use your FP after the time printed!!! no seriously!

Of course there will be people that play dumb and argue with CM. And I feel sorry for those CM!

[waymickey]

We go to Universal, Busch Gardens and Sea World all of the time. We ALWAYS pay to get the Express Pass or Quick Queue. We love never having to wait in long lines and not having to wait to get a fastpass and return in a certain time frame. Sure, it costs quite a bit, but if you're willing and able to afford it, it is FANTASTIC!!!! I cannot wait rof WDW to offer this pay system! Face it. Some families come to WDW and stay in luxury while others roll pennies for years just to get here. Both familes have a great time. It would be nice to offer this added perk to those who can and are willing to pay for it.

My only problem with this is that at the Six Flags that offers a pay fast pass, it has a negitave affect on those families that rolled pennies for years and ate mac cheese every night to get there. They wait in longer lines spending more time in line then anything else. Screamings kids, screaming parents and money running down the drain.

Walt envisioned a park for everyone. Grown ups and kids alike as well as working class and the well off. Making lines longer for those who can not afford it is the wrong direction in MHO.

I longer go to the Six Flags in my area. I could get there in under 15 minutes but it is not worth it. Long lines and high prices drove me away. 60 bucks to get in, then another 60 bucks to get on the rides plus 20 to park. What happened to pay one price and ride all day? Now it is pay two prices to ride all day.:blowup:

[badkitty]

I can't wait for WDW to enforce this rule. We are honest guests. We never use our FP outside of their window. We see when our return time is and plan accordingly. it's not like you have bunches of FP in your pocket that you're trying to keep track of. It's one FP for one ride. We have had many FP that we didn't use because plans changed before our window came. Oh well. We didn't manipulate the system and use it later. FP is a great system and it's fair. The only reason it fails is becuase people cheat. I'm going to get some flack for posting my feelings but it's worth it. My family has AP to all of the theme parks. WDW is the most expensive of them. We NEVER go to WDW in the summer because of the crowds and the abused FP system is pointless. If you read other threads and other sites, you will see that the adhering to the FP window is just the start of something bigger and not the final answer to the long wait time problem. I don't pretend to speak for the suits at WDW, but if there is a definite market for paying for FP, I'm sure they will capitalize on it. Some people on this site might not like paying for front of the line passes, but it seems to be working well for every other theme park in the entire country.

I'm sorry you feel that you will get "flack" but I'm also going to post what I believe to be true. It isn't manipulating the system or cheating or abusing or being dishonest if the CM tells you that you can return any time after your window opens.

I find that other theme parks with front of the line passes, don't offer the experiences that I can get from a Disney trip. I don't go to the Six Flags in my area because of the expense as another poster mentioned and the shape that the park is in.