The NFL 2011 Season Thread [Archive]

Greenlawler

08-13-2011, 12:30 AM

Okay now that we have football back, lets start the season with some predictions before the real games begin.

Here are the first batch....

In the AFC....Patriots win the Conference title. Haynesworth and Ellis have monster seasons. Jets make playoffs but loose early. Ravens and Steelers slug it out but only one makes the playoffs. Chiefs and Chargers both make it to postseason. Colts win AFC South but Peyton has injury riddled year and they exit early. Texans once again fail to live up to expectations.

In the NFC....Eagles fly high but fall short in NFC championship. Packers repeat as champs. Vikings have solid season. Falcons dissapoint. Saints regain the South. Cowboys have a suprising good season :sick: Seahaks come out of the West by default.

In the end Packers beat Patriots in the Super Bowl.

As for the Titans 8-8 offense is good but not making the deal for Haynesworth equals another year of struggles on defense.

RAIDER

08-13-2011, 03:48 AM

All i can say ...Come on you Raiders ...but i am not expecting miracles as usual ...I am just hoping for a great season like the last one .:thumbsup:

WDWfanatic742

08-13-2011, 06:05 AM

Falcons are going to be even better this year...defense is always going to be an issue with them, but with the addition of Julio Jones to the offense gives a huge spark. Team looked very good last night with the 1st teamers out there...

13-3 season this year...first five games are going to be rough...@Chicago, Philadelphia, @Tampa Bay, @Seattle, & Green Bay. Lose one or two of those games and split with New Orleans like we always do every year, with a tough game at Houston inbetween...

Ian

08-13-2011, 08:14 AM

Jillirose

08-13-2011, 09:25 AM

Lions are lookin' good :thumbsup:

gueli

08-14-2011, 08:32 AM

Lets see...
I do not entirely disagree with you.
Peyton manning will have an injury plagued season. But I do think there will be a few things different.

Lets start off in the NFC.
NFC east. The eagles who have made a number of moves will be viying for the top spot, along with the cowboys. Both the redskins and the giants will do alright, but will struggle (giants offense might take most of the season to pull it together).

NFC North: The bears and packers will be fighting for the top spot. the lions will have a decent year, and the vikings will be much improved over last year.

NFC South: Saints and falcons will be trying to stay on top. Bucs & Panthers will struggle, but the panthers will not be as bad as last year.

NFC West: Rams will be the team to beat. The seahawks will be a challenging team. While the 49ers will struggle. The cardinals will not fare well.

Playoffs: Eagles, Boys, packers, saints, rams & Falcons go on to the playoffs. Championship- saints and eagles. NO returns to the SHOW.

AFC

AFC east: no doubts here. Jets and Patriots are 2 of the top contenders in the AFC. Bills will have a better year, while the Dolphins will have an average year (figure 8 & 8 or 9 & 7).

AFC North: Steelers will find a way. But it will be the browns munching at their heals, not the ravens. Bengals will conitnue to flounder.

AFC South: The colts will strugle. If Peyton is healthy towards the end of the season they will make a run at the wild card. Jaguars will fall to the bottom of the pile, while the Titans will do OK. The Texans take the top spot.

AFC West: Raiders and broncos will both have an unimpressive year. Chiefs will start strong and fade. The Chargers will take the West.

Playoffs: Jets, Patriots, Steelers, Texans, Chargers, Colts. Championship: Patriots & Jets. Jets return to the Superbowl for the first time in 40 plus years.

Superbowl: NO saints & NY Jets.

:beer:

Go Jets :number1:

and yeah I know, my prediction is a little biased, and a lot hopeful. :thumbsup:

Oh yeah and my real prediction: Football will have a lot more injuries this year. The quality of play, for most teams, will not be there until mid season.

Pagan

08-15-2011, 10:39 AM

Superbowl: NO saints & NY Jets.

:beer:

Go Jets :number1:

and yeah I know, my prediction is a little biased, and a lot hopeful. :thumbsup:
Well at least I know I can count on you and Rex saying the same thing every August. :razz:

My prediction, and I HATE to say this cause it will make Ian smile, which makes my skin crawl. ;)

Philly over NE in the bowl. Even though I loathe saying it, the Feebles are loaded this year.

iceicebritney

08-15-2011, 11:20 AM

I'm not quite ready to make any predictions just yet. I want to get through a few more pre-season games, see who's doing what, look at key injuries, and also evaluate any last minute player moves that might occur (*cough* EAGLES GET A VETERAN LINEBACKER!! *cough*).

Happy to have football back, though ... can't wait for the real deal to start! :thumbsup:

Brett Favre coming to Philadelphia would be the best thing to ever happen to this city:mickey: They might actually get a championship out of it:thumbsup:

Ian

08-15-2011, 01:17 PM

Even though I loathe saying it, the Feebles are loaded this year.Guess they aren't that Feeble then .........

Brett Favre coming to Philadelphia would be the best thing to ever happen to this city:mickey: They might actually get a championship out of it:thumbsup:Uh, no. Brett Favre is the most overrated shlump ever to don an NFL uniform. He won one Super Bowl like 100 years ago and hasn't done a thing since. He stinks ... a crippling interception waiting to happen ... a luckier version of McNabb. :sick:

diz_girl

08-15-2011, 01:48 PM

Philly over NE in the bowl.

I'd LOVE for that to happen and give some payback to Bellicheat.

Pagan

08-15-2011, 04:50 PM

Guess they aren't that Feeble then .........
Until they actually win, yes they are. :razz:

Ian

08-15-2011, 05:09 PM

Until they actually win, yes they are. :razz:LOL even I agree with that.

I'm actually bothered by all the hype/Dream Team garbage that's out there. This is a team that's underachieved for a decade or more ... IMO they have to walk the walk before they talk the talk.

Pagan

08-15-2011, 09:29 PM

Well you got a great chance this year. If the chemistry's right, you should be able to win it all.

Greenlawler

08-16-2011, 01:20 AM

Guess they aren't that Feeble then .........

Uh, no. Brett Favre is the most overrated shlump ever to don an NFL uniform. He won one Super Bowl like 100 years ago and hasn't done a thing since. He stinks ... a crippling interception waiting to happen ... a luckier version of McNabb. :sick:

Most Over-Rated shlup? Clearly you have your mind made up and I don't want to interupt this thread with a tired Favre debate, but the Favre hate irritates me.

As for Philly...When is the last time throwing a bunch of money around for big name free agents won a Super Bowl?

The Reservoir Dog

08-16-2011, 03:05 AM

Looking forward to my Sunday evenings.

Don't hold much hope for my Raiders but, and I know I have been saying this the last couple of years but I believe it could be my adopted second team The Texans' year.... well at least finally make the playoffs.

Ian

08-16-2011, 08:08 AM

As for Philly...When is the last time throwing a bunch of money around for big name free agents won a Super Bowl?To the best of my recollection? Never.

Which is why my enthusiasm for this team isn't on par with everyone else's. I've very much adopted a "wait and see" attitude, as you can see from my last post.

princessgirls

08-16-2011, 12:36 PM

Let the season begin!!!!!

It's ANY TEAMS game when they take the field!!!

GO JETS!!!

Julie:mickey:

Greenlawler

08-16-2011, 02:48 PM

Let the season begin!!!!!

It's ANY TEAMS game when they take the field!!!

GO JETS!!!

Julie:mickey:

Unless you are playing the Bengals :thedolls:

Rhetoric2000

08-17-2011, 12:45 PM

As the world's worst picker, my opinion counts for exactly nothing, but for what it's worth my picks for the upcoming season are as follows:

AFC East: Patriots to remain the top force in all regular season football. Jets to have a falloff year and miss the playoffs. Bills will be much better than people think and win 7 or so games and finish ahead of a hapless Dolphins.

AFC North: Browns to make a consistant charge through the season, but falling away to about .500 at end of season failing to catch Steelers. Ravens to be weaker than recent years. With the first overall pick in the 2012 draft the Cincinnatti Bengals select.....

AFC South: Yep, I'll have a spot on the Texans bandwagon. Colts also to make playoffs with all teams in this division picking up good wins; teething issues will hold Jags back from real contention while new-look Titans are a year away from returning to contention. No weaklings here.

AFC West - Bold Prediction 1 - 2 Teams from the AFC West will make the playoffs this year!!! Chargers to be winners with the not-as-much-of-a-fall-off-as-people-expect Chiefs picking up a wildcard. Raiders sadly take a small step back but are still a good side. Broncos a little better than last year but need to get better in many areas.

-----------

NFC East - Eagles are good for the division win, but end up one and done in playoffs. Cowboys with a winning record but missing playoffs. Giants mediocre. Redskins nearly as bad as Bengals despite Beck or Grossman putting up oddly good figures.

NFC North: No weak team here. Vikings will be strong and make some impressive wins but still finish at the bottom. Lions will challenge for a wildcard berth and have a winning record. Packers will be excellent. The wildcard here is the Bears offensive line and just how atrocious it really is. There is a real possiblity of them falling off a cliff and being down to their third string QB within 3 weeks, but just as much a possiblity if Cutler remains standing they could be a top team again.

NFC South: Falcons and Saints to have pretty similar records and both make the playoffs. Bucs are just as good as last year but don't get the breaks and end up .500. A healthy Pathers much better than last year but not in true contention.

NFC West: Rams take it from Cardinals due to the Cards O-Line and secondary woes. Kolb and Bradford to make the division less of a laughing stock. Seahawks difficult to predict but probably will end up with Whitehurst. Niners still nowhere.

AFC Playoffs: Pats, Steelers, Texans, Colts, Chargers, Chiefs

NFC Playoffs: Eagles, Packers, Lions, Saints, Falcons, Rams.

Superbowl: Pats vs Green Bay would be awesome.

Greenlawler

08-17-2011, 11:41 PM

:shrug:

Another year another slew of Texans will do well predictions.

I am sure one day they will prove me wrong....but they have not yet.

Good post Rhetoric....

indytraveler

08-18-2011, 07:58 AM

Ok I've got to set the record straight. The Colts will win the AFC South. Yes the Texans, Titans, Jags are better but the Colts are too. Yes Peyton had off season surgery but last time he had one, he won the MVP award. However, they won't make it to the Super Bowl. Home teams don't get that chance. So here are the rest of my predictions.

AFC teams: Jets, Patriots, Ravens, Chargers, Texans, Colts

NFC teams: Packers, Bears, Eagles, Falcons, Saints, Rams

Jets-Patriots in AFC Champ game

Falcons-Packers in NFC Champ game

see ya in Indy
Patriots v Packers

I don't care who wins as long as their fans show up with $ and spend, spend, spend in our city and pay those stadium taxes. I do believe that this city will show the other cold weather cities how to throw an "outdoor" party, just like with the Final Four.

Pagan

08-18-2011, 09:28 AM

ahead of a hapless Dolphins.
Rassa frassa rassaa...

Ah well...Andrew Luck here we come!

gueli

08-25-2011, 08:58 PM

Rassa frassa rassaa...

Ah well...Andrew Luck here we come!

I have said it before and I will say it again- dolphins will win just enough to put luck out of the picture...

Pagan

08-26-2011, 01:55 PM

I have said it before and I will say it again- dolphins will win just enough to put luck out of the picture...
And the Jets will win just enough to break their fans' hearts once again and cause Rex to slam his headset into the turf for a third time.

Hey...you wanna rain in my Andrew Luck parade I'll rain on yours. :razz:

Ian

08-26-2011, 03:08 PM

Continuing the Dolphin bashing, from the "What are you smokin'??" file ...

Vontae Davis thinks the Dolphins have the best corners in the NFL.

Let's see ... how many Pro Bowls have the corners on the top teams gone to?

Eagles
DRC - 1
Asante Samuel - 4 time Pro Bowler/3 time All Pro
Nnamdi Asomugha - 4 time Pro Bowler/4 time All Pro
Total - 9 Pro Bowl appearances

New York Jets
Darrelle Revis - 3 time Pro Bowler/2 time All Pro
Antonio Cromartie - 1 Pro Bowl/1 All Pro
Total - 4

Dolphins
Vontae Davis - 0
Sean Smith - 0
Total - 0

I'm not sayin' he sounded stupid or anything ... I'm just sayin' ...

gueli

08-26-2011, 11:28 PM

And the Jets will win just enough to break their fans' hearts once again and cause Rex to slam his headset into the turf for a third time.

Hey...you wanna rain in my Andrew Luck parade I'll rain on yours. :razz:

So they will win just enough to break our hearts... um you forget how cold and unforgiving our hearts are. For years we have had no hope. For years we had mangini, groh, and lets not forget Kotite.

If the jets win just enough, and we make it to the playoffs, I am good with that. If we make it to the Championship game for the third time, I will not be expecting us to win it. Every year ,as a long suffering Jets fan, I wait for the other (losing) shoe to drop. Many years its right after the first regular season game :D.

As far as smashing his headset... The Jets can frustrate the most optimistic person. Even their coach. :beer:
And much like the dolphins we never seem to lose enough to have the #1 pick.

So I will rain on your Luck parade. Just like the dolphins will likely win 1 of our head to head games. It is what it is.

So what do you think of rexs tatoo ?

Also Ian, you are dead on. Oh my goodness I just agreed with you. Is there snow in .... ?
:D

Pagan

08-29-2011, 02:58 PM

Continuing the Dolphin bashing, from the "What are you smokin'??" file

Vontae Davis thinks the Dolphins have the best corners in the NFL.

Let's see ... how many Pro Bowls have the corners on the top teams gone to?

Eagles
DRC - 1
Asante Samuel - 4 time Pro Bowler/3 time All Pro
Nnamdi Asomugha - 4 time Pro Bowler/4 time All Pro
Total - 9 Pro Bowl appearances

New York Jets
Darrelle Revis - 3 time Pro Bowler/2 time All Pro
Antonio Cromartie - 1 Pro Bowl/1 All Pro
Total - 4

Dolphins
Vontae Davis - 0
Sean Smith - 0
Total - 0

I'm not sayin' he sounded stupid or anything ... I'm just sayin' ...
Hey...Rex has said the Jets were going to the superbowl three years straight. Didn't hear you yapping about that. :razz:

So let me get this straight...when the Jets run their mouths it's "swagger," but when the Dolphins do it's stupidity?

I see. ;)

He's talking about a tandem. Who knows? Let's see after this year. Past pro bowls mean nothing now. If that's the case we have the best running back in the league now, we signed Larry Johnson, right? :razz:

Let's see how it plays out this year. MOST football experts will tell you Davis and Smith are a very good tandem. The best? We shall see.

And don't include the Eagles in there, homer. That tandem hasn't played together yet. You have no idea if they'll be a good mix together. Washington loaded up with a ton of pro bowl free agents one year a short time ago. We all saw how that turned out.

So what do you think of rexs tatoo ?
Awful. Bad placement, bad art. Still wondering why he did that.

Ian

08-29-2011, 04:47 PM

So let me get this straight...when the Jets run their mouths it's "swagger," but when the Dolphins do it's stupidity?In fairness, I just have a soft-spot for the Ryans because of Buddy ... but no, obviously Rex is a moron. ;)

Let's see how it plays out this year. MOST football experts will tell you Davis and Smith are a very good tandem. The best? We shall see.I actually do think they're a good tandem ... better than good, really. I mean, the Dolphins had the 8th best pass defense in the NFL last season which is pretty darn good.

I was mostly just busting your chops ... I actually like both these guys a lot.

But in fairness, it's hard to argue that the Eagles' trifecta of corners isn't the most talented (not accomplished ... talented) in the NFL.

BraddyB

08-29-2011, 07:09 PM

Why am I reading this thread??? Eagles this, Jets that. It's kinda silly to post stats when the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. :number1:

:offtopic: And the Flyers stink too :D

Pagan

08-30-2011, 09:37 AM

But in fairness, it's hard to argue that the Eagles' trifecta of corners isn't the most talented (not accomplished ... talented) in the NFL.
Oh I know..believe me, I'm just happy Ashmoongie or whatever his name is didn't go to the Jets! :razz:

Ian

08-30-2011, 01:12 PM

:offtopic: And the Flyers stink too :DOn this we can agree!

Greenlawler

09-02-2011, 10:57 PM

Why am I reading this thread??? Eagles this, Jets that. It's kinda silly to post stats when the Steelers are going to win the Superbowl. :number1:

:offtopic: And the Flyers stink too :D

Just like last year huh..:D

Ian

09-03-2011, 06:21 PM

If that's the case we have the best running back in the league now, we signed Larry Johnson, right? :razz:No more Pro Bowl RB for you! ;)

darthmacho

09-04-2011, 02:56 PM

I'm biased, but I predict the Patriots will win the Super Bowl. I predict that every year though.

As for the NFC, I think the Packers will actually improve, but repeating won't be easy, so look for the Eagles or Falcons to take them down in the playoffs.

Ian

09-04-2011, 06:12 PM

As for the NFC, I think the Packers will actually improve, but repeating won't be easy, so look for the Eagles or Falcons to take them down in the playoffs.I agree the Packers won't repeat. It's only happened once in the last twenty years or something and I certainly don't think the Packers are the team to beat the odds.

Not the Eagles either ... our offensive line is an absolute mess meaning Vick has no shot at playing the entire season meaning we'll probably win 10 or so games and lose in the first round of the playoffs just like we always do. Depending how soft our linebackers are, we might not even make the playoffs. Too many weaknesses on the Dream Team. :shake:

I like the Saints or the Falcons in the NFC.

Greenlawler

09-05-2011, 12:27 AM

gueli

09-05-2011, 06:07 AM

I am starting to drink the cool aid...Titans ....and the Colts might be Peyton-less for longer than they thought....whispers of more surgery on Indy radio today....

I think that collins can still play. Maybe not a full season, but he still has the touch.

I'm biased, but I predict the Patriots will win the Super Bowl. I predict that every year though...

I agree that the Patriots are a tough team. But so are the steelers.

Jets make it tough on the Patriots. I think we are still a contender...

I agree the Packers won't repeat...Not the Eagles either ...Too many weaknesses on the Dream Team. :shake:

I like the Saints or the Falcons in the NFC.

I agree. Again whats going on here

Oh I know..believe me, I'm just happy Ashmoongie or whatever his name is didn't go to the Jets! :razz:

Your happy when the jets do not sign any big name free agents. especially because you would have to read, over and over again, about the hype. But hey, you read the post...

By the way, as long as you can stick pins in your "rex vodoo doll" you will be happy.

Just like if the jets win 10 games this year I will be happy.

So everyone, did your team make any surprise moves at the cut down to 53 ?
what about after ?

Good luck all :beer:
(and yes that means you too, pagan)

indytraveler

09-06-2011, 04:33 PM

I am starting to drink the cool aid....Titans are making some good moves with their cuts and contracts. I still don't buy the Texans....and the Colts might be Peyton-less for longer than they thought....

whispers of more surgery on Indy radio today....

Yes, Precious Peyton is hurting... Listed as doubtful for the opener. The way things are going its going to be a long season. The O-line still can't produce a running game and if Collins has to play more than a month then they will learn about his mobility or lack thereof in the pocket. Could be hard pressed to make playoffs.

WDWfanatic742

09-09-2011, 01:27 AM

Welcome back NFL, we missed you :number1:

Ian

09-09-2011, 07:55 AM

Well boy was I wrong about the Packers! They looked unstoppable last night ... could be a looooooooooong season for teams in the NFC who have to contend with them. :shake:

conan617

09-09-2011, 04:20 PM

Well boy was I wrong about the Packers! They looked unstoppable last night ... could be a looooooooooong season for teams in the NFC who have to contend with them. :shake:

Being that I'm a little impartial I certainly hope you are right!:number1: I was very enthusiastic last night, but also saw "LOTS" of room for improvement - missed tackles, blown coverages etc. I'm hoping it was 1st game jitters and a shortened training camp.
The Saints are definitely going to be formidable. Can't wait for Sunday/Monday to see how all the rest of the teams are looking.

Ian

09-10-2011, 09:43 AM

Yeah, well their defense and special teams did leave a lot to be desired, so we'll have to see about that.

But if the offense keeps dropping 40+ points on people it may not matter anyway!

sportsguy2315

09-12-2011, 12:44 PM

RAIDER

09-13-2011, 07:45 AM

:DThe Raiders won !!!! thats me sorted until next sunday :beer::D

Ian

09-13-2011, 08:16 AM

Not a good week for my Vikings; okay, I realize that AP's the highest paid running back in the game, but McNabb needs to realize that it's okay to pass the football. 7/15 for 39 yards??? Now I know why you Eagle fans hated him. :mad:Yeah well we tried to tell people, but no one would listen. He's just not very good. In many ways, he's no different than the other QB's who have managed to perform reasonably well under Andy Reid's tutelage, but flopped in other places. I'm not a Reid fan, but even I will admit that he knows how to get the best out of QB's.

But the bottom line is, McNabb is a below average QB at best. In his early days, he could make up for his shortcomings with his legs to a degree, but now he's just old, slow, inaccurate, goofy, and pretty lazy. Which is how you end up going 7/15 for 39 yards.

But don't worry he'll find about a million other people to blame before he finally gets to himself. It's the defense's fault, he doesn't have any "weapons", the receivers he does have are too young, the offensive line didn't block for him, they couldn't get the donuts he likes before the game ... it's never his fault!

Scar

09-13-2011, 03:49 PM

How many days untill pitchers and catchers report?

Greenlawler

09-18-2011, 11:24 PM

Beating the Ravens makes me happy....in celebration here are my 4 least favorite NFL teams :party:

1. Baltimore Ravens: Aside from the fact that I despise Ray Lewis there is the little detail that they eliminated the Titans from the playoffs in 2000, and 2008.
2. The Indianapolis Colts: No Peyton no franchise.....just wait till he retires and the fairweather Colt fans leave in masses. Can you say L.A. Colts...Toronto Colts.....San Antonio Colts who knows but my guess it won't be the Indianapolis Colts by 2020.
3. Denver Broncos: John Elway is heralded as a conquering hero....of course NFL flims rarely talk about the fact that the Broncos violated the salary cap in both their Super Bowl seasons......:ack:
4. Atlanta Falcons: Okay so they are harmless.....but I just can't stand fairweather fan bases. And there are no more "fairweathier" fans than Falcon fans.

WDWfanatic742

09-19-2011, 12:25 AM

4. Atlanta Falcons: Okay so they are harmless.....but I just can't stand fairweather fan bases. And there are no more "fairweathier" fans than Falcon fans.

I'd put all three Florida teams higher up on that list before Atlanta fans, but they are up there.

There is absolutely zero reason why we should have won, but we did so I'll take it. Dunta Robinson should get a HUGE fine...I could see him getting suspended for a game but he probably won't just because Maclin did end up coming back in a couple plays later.

I hope Vick is able to come back next week. I love watching him play, especially when he was with the Falcons. I just wish he would protect himself some more. His body isn't meant for the punishment he takes (The play where he got knocked out was a freak accident though), and I'd love to see him play for years and years...

Pagan

09-19-2011, 09:57 AM

2. The Indianapolis Colts: No Peyton no franchise.....just wait till he retires and the fairweather Colt fans leave in masses. Can you say L.A. Colts...Toronto Colts.....San Antonio Colts who knows but my guess it won't be the Indianapolis Colts by 2020.
Don't count your chickens. They lose enough games this year - which they probably will - they get to draft Andrew Luck, who then gets to be a backup for a couple of years and learn the pro game from Manning. How many teams get two franchise QBs back to back?

They're not going anywhere.

caryrae

09-19-2011, 10:07 AM

Not a good week for my Vikings; okay, I realize that AP's the highest paid running back in the game, but McNabb needs to realize that it's okay to pass the football. 7/15 for 39 yards??? Now I know why you Eagle fans hated him. :mad:

Man what's with our Vikes they seem to fall apart after halftime? They look pretty good the 1st halves but the 2nd halves not sure what to say they give their lead away.

Greenlawler

09-19-2011, 02:48 PM

Don't count your chickens. They lose enough games this year - which they probably will - they get to draft Andrew Luck, who then gets to be a backup for a couple of years and learn the pro game from Manning. How many teams get two franchise QBs back to back?

They're not going anywhere.

And how many can't miss prospects actually turn out to be "Manning-like"?

They were on the way out of town before Manning.... they will be out the door when he's done.

Pagan

09-19-2011, 03:46 PM

And how many can't miss prospects actually turn out to be "Manning-like"?
There hasn't been a prospect like Luck in some time now.

They were on the way out of town before Manning.... they will be out the door when he's done.
LOL..man, you hate the Colts, dontcha? :razz:

Greenlawler

09-20-2011, 01:21 AM

There hasn't been a prospect like Luck in some time now.

LOL..man, you hate the Colts, dontcha? :razz:

Pagan, I will believe in Luck when I see it. The odds are against him. Todd Marinovich could'nt miss either.

And you're right I do hate the Colts. Truth be told what infuriates me more than anything are the University of Tennessee fans who cheer for the Colts over the Titans because of Manning. When he retires (although I wish no harm to him) it will be a happy day here as people finally jump off their bandwagon.