Disney Dream - Why not 7 nights?

[DisneyFr33k]

Ok, so I have heard all about how wonderful the Dream is and all the things there are to do on this newest massive ship. I've read that some passengers on the christening cruise said they ran themselves ragged and still couldn't fit everything in.

Question: since this ship is so much bigger, with so much more to do than it's sister ships (which I've been on both), why are they only offering shorter cruises and only visiting ports of call in the Bahamas? Seems like they'd want to offer longer cruises so that it's passengers can experience all it has to offer.

[Ed]

It's a bit complicated with numerous factors.

When DCL decided in 2008 to build the two new ships, they realized that their pier and terminal at Port Canaveral would need to be enlarged, and additional parking would be required, so they entered into an agreement with the port authority that essentially said that Disney would promise to base both of the new ships there for several years if the port authority made the necessary renovations. The "home base" agreement requires that the ships make a certain number of stops at the port; this prevents DCL from suddenly deciding to relocate one of the ships to, let's say, Miami for several months of the year.

Now that Wonder has been permanently relocated to the West Coast, Magic and Dream are the Florida based ships, and Magic is committed to returning to the Med from May until September. That means that during the peak summer vacation months there will only be one ship available - Dream. By doing only 3, 4 and 5 night cruises, DCL thus fulfills its obligations to the port authority, and the port authority is assured a steady flow of passengers (that's spelled $$$). Based on the new ship's capacity of 4,000 passengers, it's in the interest of both DCL and the port to have a potential for 8,000 passengers a week (one 3-night and one 4-night cruise) rather than just one group of 4,000 once a week.

Clear as mud, huh ? ;)

Of course, it's all temporary. The second new ship, Fantasy, will be arriving in early 2012, at which time she'll be doing the 7-night cruises and Dream will continue her present schedule, while Magic presumably will go to the Med more-or-less permanently.

[Melanie]

Interesting info Ed. :thumbsup:

So, has construction begun on the Fantasy?

[DisneyFr33k]

Thanks Ed! I appreciate the in detail explanation. Actually this makes sense. Not that I agree with it ($$$ over customer satisfaction).

Our family won't spend the $$ to go on the Dream if I won't have time to do all it has to offer. We'll wait for the Fantasy and book a 7 night on that one. I assume it will be offering the same amenities as the Dream?

[Ed]

Interesting info Ed. :thumbsup:

So, has construction begun on the Fantasy?

Keel laying is next week, in the first week of February; I misplaced the actual date. {Senior moment, you know.}


Thanks Ed! I appreciate the in detail explanation. Actually this makes sense. Not that I agree with it ($$$ over customer satisfaction).

Our family won't spend the $$ to go on the Dream if I won't have time to do all it has to offer. We'll wait for the Fantasy and book a 7 night on that one. I assume it will be offering the same amenities as the Dream?

Yes, Fantasy will be a virtual clone of Dream, but probably with minor differences in decor like Magic/Wonder.

[Mufasa]

Interesting info Ed. :thumbsup:

So, has construction begun on the Fantasy?

They started cutting the steel for the Fantasy back in August and have begun assembling the blocks for the ship in the fab building next to the dry dock, but the keel hasn't been layed just yet (the ceremony should be on Feb 3rd).

Meyer Werft has I think 3 dry docks, but only 2 are actually large enough for constructing cruise ships, and of those two, only dock 2 (hall 6)- is large enough to accomodate a ship the size of the Dream or Fantasy (in dock 1 they're working on an AIDA class cruise ship).

Right now the Celebrity Cruises Silhouette is being finished in dock 2 but they'll build up a temporary gate for the Fantasy to be built and meanwhile they can then flood the dock and float out the Silhouette and finish that up outside which allows them to build more than 1 ship at a time in a dry dock (after the Dream was floated out, the Silhouette then moved into its place and the freed-up space is where they can start construction on another ship which is a pretty amazing process).

There's a visitors center right at the shipyard where you can go and take a tour and actually see the ships being built, along with even an exhibition for the Disney Cruise Line that had a mockup stateroom with the virtual porthole, or the Admiral Donald statue that was created for the Dream to greet visitors before it was moved into the ship.

[MarkC]

That's all very interesting. We are booked for the 3rd week of the Fantasy's sailing in April, 2012. I certainly hope that there isn't a delay, because we'll have our airfare and everything else ready long before that time. Any deals and we'll have all kinds of problems.

[Ed]

They started cutting the steel for the Fantasy back in August and have begun assembling the blocks for the ship in the fab building next to the dry dock, but the keel hasn't been layed just yet (the ceremony should be on Feb 3rd).

Thanks, Mufasa...I knew I saw that February date somewhere in a press release, just can't find it now.

In modern ship construction, there really isn't a true "keel laying". In the days of Captain Jack Sparrow, the first part of a ship to be positioned was the keel - - a long 'beam' that runs the length of the ship down the center, from which the ribs formed the base for the hull. Not so in the days of Captain Tom Forberg. As Mufasa mentions, the ship is built in blocks away from the drydock, then brought in, stacked in place and welded together. This process explains why such huge ships can be assembled in relatively short time frames. So technically, the modern modular steel ships don't have a true keel.

The ceremony next week will really just be a ceremonial formality. One tradition of wooden shipbuilding was placing a coin under the base of the mast for good luck. That continues today (at least with DCL ships) by placing a commemorative coin in the hull. The ceremony for Dream was presided over by Captain Tom and Donald Duck (http://www.disneycruisenews.com/AssetDetail.aspx?AssetId=081e01a8-543c-463d-9d9f-5e31ea2646e2); I expect the ceremony for Fantasy will be very similar.

Once actual assembly of the modules begins, the Meyer Werft shipyard will likely train one of their webcams on the drydock so you can follow her construction. When that happens, I'll post a link to the webcam.

[Mufasa]

I certainly hope that there isn't a delay, because we'll have our airfare and everything else ready long before that time. Any deals and we'll have all kinds of problems.

We're actually expecting to take delivery of the Fantasy a bit before schedule, so the maiden voyage has been moved up a week to a March 31, 2012 Western Caribbean Itinerary (also as a result, the itinerary for the Disney Magic cruise on March 24, 2012 changes from a 7-night Eastern Caribbean voyage to a 6-night Western Caribbean itinerary)

I remember once hearing Bernard Meyer reassuring everyone that the ships would be delivered on time and promising that delays are impossible being that they are a German shipyard and everything made in Germany is based on timelines that are calculated with exact precision. Meyer Werft were also very aggressive for a number of years in securing the contracts for building the new ships (even long before any official discussion about new ships) and making assurances they could do so under an accelerated schedule.

[Ed]

That's all very interesting. We are booked for the 3rd week of the Fantasy's sailing in April, 2012. I certainly hope that there isn't a delay, because we'll have our airfare and everything else ready long before that time. Any deals and we'll have all kinds of problems.

Apparently the shipyard and DCL are very confident about the delivery date, because they moved the Inaugural cruise from early April 2012 to late March.

It seems logical to assume that Fantasy's assembly will go more quickly than Dream's, as the shipbuilders will basically be repeating what they learned building Dream.

{Looks like Mufasa and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time.}

:sail:

[BrerGnat]

Anyone think that once the Fantasy comes, the prices for BOTH the Fantasy and the Dream will be lower?

My family really wants to do a 4 or 5 night on the Dream to the Bahamas, but not until summer 2012. Looking that far out, prices are ridiculous! I can't imagine Disney being able to maintain that sort of pricing once ALL their ships are online at the same time, and they have more than twice the amount of cabins needing to be filled every week...

Since we can't book until at least January of NEXT year (due to DH's work...we won't know until then if/when he can have time off), I'm hoping that we see a price decrease.

[DisneyFr33k]

Looking that far out, prices are ridiculous! I can't imagine Disney being able to maintain that sort of pricing once ALL their ships are online at the same time, and they have more than twice the amount of cabins needing to be filled every week...

I'm hoping that we see a price decrease.


AMEN to that! We won't be able to afford it if they don't We've been on 3 Disney cruises (2 on the Magic and 1 on the Wonder) and those were manageable. But looking at the pricing on the Dream and if the Fantasy matches, it will exclude those in my income bracket that would like to go!

[ElenitaB]

Since we can't book until at least January of NEXT year (due to DH's work...we won't know until then if/when he can have time off), I'm hoping that we see a price decrease.
I'd suggest booking now for a date you think may work, so that you can lock in the lower price that's offered this far out (yes, I know it's expensive now but it gets even more expensive as the cruise date approaches), and book it with Magical Journeys. Also, ask them if you'd be able to change the date and maintain the price that you booked at. I'm pretty sure that I was able to change the date on the cruise I booked on board during our first cruise, and keep the discount.

[Donald_Quackers]

I rebooked onboard, initially for a Dream cruise, then moved to the April 21st Fantasy cruise (the 4th cruise of the Fantasy, if I'm correct) and I'm paying under 2k for a cat 9a right in the front of the ship, stateroom 8502, and I can't wait!

[BrerGnat]

I'd suggest booking now for a date you think may work, so that you can lock in the lower price that's offered this far out (yes, I know it's expensive now but it gets even more expensive as the cruise date approaches), and book it with Magical Journeys. Also, ask them if you'd be able to change the date and maintain the price that you booked at. I'm pretty sure that I was able to change the date on the cruise I booked on board during our first cruise, and keep the discount.

You know, I always hear this, but my experience with playing around with the Disney Cruise line site, as well as sites like Travelocity is that, within 3 months of the cruise, the prices DROP (trying to sell those unoccupied cabins, I assume). My mother was a cruise agent for many years, and she still cruises several times a year. She never books a cruise further out than 3 months. Lots of people cancel cruises before final payment is due.

Our issue is that we are a family of 4 and don't want (or need) two cabins. We want a Family stateroom, although we don't care if it's inside, outside, or verandah. I also don't give a hoot where on the ship a cabin is located, so odds seem in our favor to be able to book last minute.

Even when I look online for cruises in the next few months, the prices are substantially lower than they were when those itineraries were released (for example, some of the Mexican Riviera cruises are only charging $349 for 3rd and 4th passenger...).

At this point, too, we don't even have a viable "window" of dates to be looking at. We are moving this summer, so DH can attend school for one year. Following that, he will get a new assignment. There is a 75% chance that the new assignment will require us to move AGAIN next summer, so the timing of having to move and working in a vacation is something we can't even guess at right now.

[Ian]

I wouldn't expect the prices for DCL to drop. They've been at a premium level since the line launched in 1998 and, unless they increased supply of rooms forces prices down, I'm sure they'll stay where they are.

In fact, I suspect they added the new ships due to a surplus of demand. Disney isn't going to put themselves in a place where an excess supply drives down the prices.

Also, having just come back from the preview cruise on the Dream, I can tell you that Disney definitely wants to position themselves as a premium/luxury line ... similar to a Seabourn or something like that. They're not looking to cut in on Carnival's business, that's for sure.

The Dream is just a beautiful ship. It's very well appointed from top to bottom. The rooms are nice, fairly spacious for cruise accomodations, and there are also legitimate suites on board (something Wonder and Magic don't really have). One of the crew members told us, in fact, that the highest demand thus far has been for their concierge accomodations.

[MarkC]

Agree that booking that late for a Disney cruise is probably not going to work unless its in really low season. We booked our cruise for April 2012 in October, and yet with 15 months to go the indoor staterooms are already gone. Its only going to go up unless you're hoping to get an oceanview room, but I'm guessing most of these cruises will sell out. Families are willing to pay more for a quality vacation and with the economy recovering that may compound the situation.

[Ian]

One thing I meant to add ... the interior rooms on the Dream are very nice. The magic portholes are really cool. The rooms are nearly as spacious as the verandah rooms are and I actually liked the layout of the interior rooms more than I did my room.

I wouldn't hesitate to cruise in one of them.

[BrerGnat]

Also, having just come back from the preview cruise on the Dream, I can tell you that Disney definitely wants to position themselves as a premium/luxury line ... similar to a Seabourn or something like that. They're not looking to cut in on Carnival's business, that's for sure.


RCCL is Disney's most direct competition at this point. While Disney does have the "edge" in luring families with younger children, they really need to step it up to compete with the RCCL mega ships that cater to families with older kids.

And, sorry, but Disney will never be in the luxury category alongside Seabourn and others. Not even close. They might want to be there, but they have a long ways to go to attain that sort of status. And, premuim lines don't build mega ships...

[buzznwoodysmom]

Natalie,
I actually think you'll be fine waiting to book closer to your dates. We've been trying to plan a Disney cruise for our family for a while now, just never can seem to make it happen. Anyway, I've looked at rates around 3 months out and that's actually about the time military discounts come out. Over the past 2 years I've found that they don't release military discounts till maybe 3 or 4 months out, definitely no more than 6 months out. I imagine the reason is to fill as many unoccupied cabins as they can. And from what I've seen the military discounts have been pretty decent. Our plan is similiar to yours. We don't really care where our room is located, or what type of room we get so we plan to wait for military discounts and book then. That is if we ever get around to actually doing it. LOL.

[Ian]

And, sorry, but Disney will never be in the luxury category alongside Seabourn and others. Not even close. They might want to be there, but they have a long ways to go to attain that sort of status. And, premuim lines don't build mega ships...I didn't say they were in that category. I said I think that's where they're trying to position themselves with the new ships.

The point was ... don't look for prices to drop with the new ships. That was all.

[BrerGnat]

Natalie,
I actually think you'll be fine waiting to book closer to your dates. We've been trying to plan a Disney cruise for our family for a while now, just never can seem to make it happen. Anyway, I've looked at rates around 3 months out and that's actually about the time military discounts come out. Over the past 2 years I've found that they don't release military discounts till maybe 3 or 4 months out, definitely no more than 6 months out. I imagine the reason is to fill as many unoccupied cabins as they can. And from what I've seen the military discounts have been pretty decent. Our plan is similiar to yours. We don't really care where our room is located, or what type of room we get so we plan to wait for military discounts and book then. That is if we ever get around to actually doing it. LOL.

Isn't it fun trying to plan vacations in the military...

It took us five years to get to WDW as a family. We're HOPING we can make it on a Disney cruise in summer 2012, so thanks for the reassurance. Like you, I obsessively look at these cruises with a less than 3 month window, just to keep tabs on how much availability there is, and the prices. I'm pretty confident that we'll be able to make it, since we're not picky about our room type.

[BrerGnat]

I didn't say they were in that category. I said I think that's where they're trying to position themselves with the new ships.

The point was ... don't look for prices to drop with the new ships. That was all.

I guess I misunderstood then; sorry! I thought you meant that Disney was trying to imply that their new ships were at that level.

[Ian]

I thought you meant that Disney was trying to imply that their new ships were at that level.No, then you didn't misunderstand. That is what I'm saying.

Disney Cruise Line wants to position themselves as a luxury line. I wasn't trying to say that I actually think they're up to that level of standard and service (quite honestly I've never cruised with Seabourn or any of the top tier lines), but I do think that's where Disney is headed.

Okay, so maybe not exactly to the standard of a Seabourn but definitely a luxury line.

[Ian]

This thread had me thinking, so just for giggles I decided to price out roughly comparable cruises between Disney and Seabourn.

Since Seabourn really only has suite accomodations, I compared a 1BR concierge suite on the Disney Fantasy, 7 night Caribbean cruise, to a Classic Suite on Seabourn, 7 night Caribbean cruise. As best I could tell, the Classic Suite was as close to the Fantasy's 1BR cabin as they had.

Fantasy fare for 2 adults? $10,906.47. Seabourn fare for 2 adults? $10,200.00.

So Disney actually looked to be more expensive than Seabourn was! :eek:

[Ed]

What have we told you about thinking ? :nono:

:D

No doubt about it - - DCL is expen$ive. :spend:

But in my unsolicited humble opinion..... it's soooooo worth it!

[DisneyFr33k]

Disney Cruise Line wants to position themselves as a luxury line.


So Disney actually looked to be more expensive than Seabourn was! :eek:

This is disappointing. Disney has prided itself on affordable family vacations. Most families have more than 2 people and most average families in today's economy can't afford the prices Ian found.

I priced the fantasy for a family of 4 with the cheapest room (standard inside stateroom) and the prices is still $5000-$6000 (traveling summer months).

By removing the Magic and Wonder away from Port Canaveral, it now removes the option for us to take an affordable Disney cruise. The Alaska and Mediterranean prices are also seriously high due to the travel to get to those ports.

I hope they change their approach and offer reasonable prices to those of us middle income families trying to save for our children's college and retirement.

[Ian]

But in my unsolicited humble opinion..... it's soooooo worth it!Having never cruised with Seabourn, I certainly can't compare the two directly, but I will say that based on my experience on the Dream I think it's worth it, as well.

It's a gorgeous ship, with tons of great amenities, beautiful cabins, and really good food.


This is disappointing. Disney has prided itself on affordable family vacations ... I hope they change their approach and offer reasonable prices to those of us middle income families trying to save for our children's college and retirement.It is interesting. Disney does seem to go out of their way to try and provide affordable family options at WDW. At least in terms of resorts anyway.

I just don't think they see the cruiseline the same way, though. I think they're somewhat cognizant and try to be respectful of the fact that most families view WDW as a "must do" at some point in their lives. They want to make sure that quintessentially American experience is available to as many folks as possible, while still allowing them to maintain margins.

Not so the cruise line, though. That's a luxury brand and it's priced accordingly.

[DisneyFr33k]

I think they're somewhat cognizant and try to be respectful of the fact that most families view WDW as a "must do" at some point in their lives. They want to make sure that quintessentially American experience is available to as many folks as possible, while still allowing them to maintain margins.

Not so the cruise line, though. That's a luxury brand and it's priced accordingly.

This is true. However, I believe they underestimate the power of the Disney World addiction. Our family went to WDW when our children were 4 & 6. Since then, we've been back 7 times as it has brought such magical experiences. We've also been on 3 Disney cruises. Now that our children are older (middle/high school), they are less about WDW and more into the social fun the boat offers.

I wish they could offer them both affordably.

Now that the Wonder and Magic are gone, then the wonder and magic of a Disney cruise is gone too.

[BrerGnat]

The Disney vs. Seabourn price comparison is not really fair. Seabourn, being a luxury line, offers FAR more in terms of the cruise experience than Disney does, even in Disney's suite category. Seabourn ships max out at 450 passengers (their other ships are smaller "yachts" with 280 passengers). There is far more intimacy on those ships, with the best crew to passenger ratios in the industry, which translates into better personalized service. The food, though, is what really sets these lines apart. It's comparable to Victoria and Albert's fare during every meal. While the new Disney ships have added premium dining rooms to the ships, they come at an added surcharge, so the value is just not the same. To get the same level of dining that is standard on a Seabourn cruise, you'd have to eat at Remy or Palo every meal of your Disney cruise! Plus, these cruises prices include alcohol and gratuities. People take the "sophistication" aspect of Seabourn cruises VERY seriously, and everyone dresses up to the nines for dinner. Everyone also, at some point, dines with the captain and first officers of the ship. There are no children on Seabourn cruises. There are no children's spaces, and even for adults, recreation is sparse. These cruises target older travelers (60+) and those seeking a truly once in a lifetime, exotic travel experience.

All the luxury lines are similar. They are not family ships. Disney, while they may charge an arm and a leg for their concierge/suite categories, will NEVER be considered a Premuim Luxury line, no matter what they do, simply by virtue of what defines the Luxury Cruise industry.

And, to be fair, Disney's price for suites is comparable to (and also cheaper than) the larger suites onboard the new Oasis and Allure by RCCL. Try booking an Aquatheatre suite on one of THOSE ships. Ouch!

Disney will always be in direct competition with RCCL, Carnival, and NCL. I would HOPE that Disney will continue to rise above them in terms of quality of the ships, service, entertainment, and food. With the addition of the new ships, I don't doubt they are positioned at the top.

With all that said, Disney cruises are still relatively affordable. They are more expensive (per day) than a WDW vacation, but not by much if you compare it comparably. By that, I mean, you have to compare a comparable number of days worth, at a Deluxe level resort, WITH the Deluxe Disney Dining Plan (because you get unlimited food/non alcoholic drinks on the cruise ships) when you compare WDW to a cruise.

A 7 day cruise averages out to $150-200 per person, per day. Some cruises are cheaper, some more expensive, and cabin types have a HUGE influence on how much your cruise will cost.

I think you'd probably find that WDW vacations tend to cost about that much, when you break it down per person, per day. To be fair, you'd need to consider park hopper tickets for all days of your stay, since the cruise ships include all recreation/activities onboard.

We're looking at a 5 or 7 day cruise for June or July 2012. Using rack rates, we'd pay MORE for a week at WDW in a deluxe resort than we would on a cruise in an Deluxe Family Outside cabin.

What kills me is those prices for 3-5 night itineraries in the summer. They are just insane!!! We might go for the 7 day cruise only since we're already forking over so much money, what's a little more?

And, my gripe in general is based on what I've paid for cruises in the past. I'm used to paying WELL under $1000 per person for a week long cruise. Those were the days BEFORE kids, though, when DH and I could get away with the cheapest inside cabin on the ship!

[Ian]

I'd just suggest that everyone wait until they actually cruise the Dream before passing final judgement.

It's a really beautiful staff and the dining was pretty darn good all around ... not just at Palo.

[BrerGnat]

I'd just suggest that everyone wait until they actually cruise the Dream before passing final judgement.

It's a really beautiful staff and the dining was pretty darn good all around ... not just at Palo.

I'm also interested in getting reviews from its first actual sailing with real, PAYING guests! Should be interesting. I've been on Inaugural/special travel agent cruises before (with my mom) and they always bend over backwards to make those experiences beyond stellar. Remember, they are trying to get agents to recommend these ships to clients. Things change once the paying guests get onboard.

[ElenitaB]

This is true. Now that the Wonder and Magic are gone, then the wonder and magic of a Disney cruise is gone too.
Ah, but we still can Dream and hopefully your cruise will be more than a Fantasy! ;)

[DisneyFr33k]

Ah, but we still can Dream and hopefully your cruise will be more than a Fantasy! ;)

True, and maybe I'll win the lottery and can afford it! ;)