Disney World Reports Flat Attendance

[Carol]

Disney World Reports Flat Attendance
By Jason Garcia, Orlando Sentinel
3:51 PM EST, November 26, 2010


Attendance at Walt Disney World remained largely unchanged this summer, Disney disclosed Friday, even as overall tourist traffic into Orlando began climbing with the opening of Universal Orlando's Wizarding World of Harry Potter.

Disney said its Orlando theme-park attendance was "within a percentage point" of last year's total during the company's fiscal fourth quarter, after adjusting for the effect of an accounting quirk that left this year's fourth quarter with one less week than last year's.

The grudging disclosure came only after inquiries from the Orlando Sentinel about why the Walt Disney Co. did not report Disney World's attendance during a Nov. 11 conference call to discuss the company's quarterly earnings or in its year-end financial report, filed late Wednesday with federal regulators. In both instances, Disney reported year-over-year changes in attendance only for its two U.S. theme-park resorts combined.

It was the first quarter in at least five years that Disney had not disclosed separate attendance trends for Disney World in Central Florida and Disneyland in Southern California.

The move prompted speculation among many industry followers that Disney executives were attempting to avoid having Disney World's performance contrasted with results at Universal Orlando, where attendance has skyrocketed 36 percent since the opening of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter in Universal's Islands of Adventure theme park. Wizarding World formally opened June 18, just before the beginning of Disney's fiscal fourth quarter, which ran from July 4 until Oct. 2.

Disney said Friday that it was not attempting to shield Disney World's performance by bundling it with Disneyland. Rather, Disney said it recently made a corporate decision to halt its longstanding practice of revealing separate attendance results for Florida and California.

Going forward, the company said, it will disclose only combined attendance for its domestic theme parks.

"Our reporting of park financials has evolved over time, given our international expansion efforts, and we believe this disclosure is appropriate to our business as it is conducted today," Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty said.

Although the company would not say which way Disney World's attendance moved during its fiscal fourth quarter, the "within a percentage point" swing appears to have been a decline.

The company had earlier said that overall U.S. attendance rose only 1 percent during the quarter — and that was with attendance at Disney California Adventure, one of the company's two Anaheim, Calif., parks, up 20 percent since the June opening of "World of Color," a nighttime water show. Also, Disney had already disclosed that fourth-quarter occupancy in its 25,000 Orlando hotel rooms and time-share suites slipped to 83 percent, down one percentage point from a year ago and 6 percentage points from its pre-recession level. And data compiled by the Sentinel show that ridership aboard Disney's Magical Express, the free shuttle Disney operates between Orlando International Airport and its hotels, sank 3.5 percent between July and September.

Still, Disney says it has seen several promising trends. The company noted, for instance, that guest spending in its domestic parks rose 6 percent and per-room hotel spending rose 5 percent during the quarter, as Disney reduced the size of available discounts. Disney also said reservations at its U.S. hotels during the October-through-December quarter are running 5 percent ahead of last year's pace.

The company's decision to stop reporting separate attendance results will make it more difficult to gauge the performance of Disney World, which is by far Central Florida's largest employer, with 62,200 workers. Experts generally consider attendance to be the most important operating indicator for a theme park, though other factors, such as guest spending, are also significant drivers.

Disney World, which has four theme parks that drew an estimated 48 million visitors in 2009, dwarfs Disneyland, which has two theme parks that drew 22 million people last year. As a result, Disney's overall U.S. park results often closely mirror its Orlando performance.

But not always: During Disney's fiscal fourth quarter last year, for instance, the company's total U.S. attendance grew 3 percent. But that was because attendance at Disneyland leapt 15 percent, more than offsetting a 3 percent slump at Disney World.

[Dyanna]

Well since Disney has not added anything majorly "new" I would not think attendance would grow. I think if they brought back a "theme" like A Year of a Million Dreams" they may do better.

[Ian]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked. They slacked and slacked and slacked and cut and cut and cut and did absolutely nothing to keep guests coming back for more because they got arrogant and believed they could with no repercussions.

And then Universal caught them with their collective pants down with WWoHP. Hopefully, this will spur some positive changes at WDW to counter Universal's superior offering.

And you know even this whole sudden shift to only releasing domestic park numbers just smacks of their arrogance. They had no trouble releasing their individual attendance numbers when they were dominating, but all of a sudden things don't go their way and they get all sneaky. And they can't even come out and admit it ... they have to cobble together some mumbo-jumbo about it being "appropriate to their business as it's conducted today."

Really?? Please ... they've been international since the early 80's! How dumb do they think we are??

[Tink1]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked. They slacked and slacked and slacked and cut and cut and cut and did absolutely nothing to keep guests coming back for more because they got arrogant and believed they could with no repercussions.

And then Universal caught them with their collective pants down with WWoHP. Hopefully, this will spur some positive changes at WDW to counter Universal's superior offering.

And you know even this whole sudden shift to only releasing domestic park numbers just smacks of their arrogance. They had no trouble releasing their individual attendance numbers when they were dominating, but all of a sudden things don't go their way and they get all sneaky. And they can't even come out and admit it ... they have to cobble together some mumbo-jumbo about it being "appropriate to their business as it's conducted today."

Really?? Please ... they've been international since the early 80's! How dumb do they think we are??

:exactly:


Excellent post!

N

[Buttercup]

Is it selfish of me to be glad that attendance hasn't grown? So that there might be less of this for me to put up with: :crowd:
:D

[DizneyRox]

Surprise, surprise! I've been saying this for a while and constantly getting corrected... Oh well, no bubbles, no troubles!

Guess we answered another question about what Harry Potter Land was going to do to WDW as well.

[magicofdisney]

Surprise, surprise! I've been saying this for a while and constantly getting corrected... Oh well, no bubbles, no troubles!

Guess we answered another question about what Harry Potter Land was going to do to WDW as well.
I may never have put it into words, but I've been shaking my head in agreement with you. :thumbsup:

[Ian]

Guess we answered another question about what Harry Potter Land was going to do to WDW as well.Yep. Good thing I'm not the kind of guy who says I told you so. :secret:

[mommad]

(I know my post will show me as brand new, but I've followed your boards for a while now and have been visiting wdw since 1981) As a person who has seen wdw go from 2 parks to 4 and multiple changes it is time for the big execs at wdw to get a clue and actually spend some money on the parks. Maybe if they'd actually listen to the suggestions of the park goers then they woudln't have the attendance problems they are having. Take one recent update for example...they shut Space Mountain for a year to what add speakers that make techno music and a few fancy screens?!?! Please if they wanted to have done that right wdw should have spent the money and revamped the track to match the one of DLP and put the onboard audio in the vehicles like they were supposed to. This would have at least given a little more draw to MK while Harry Potter is kicking it's butt. Personally I really love wdw and just took my child on her first trip, but even I can see the dated things are becoming stale and in a competing area like a theme park that isn't good. It is time for them to break the piggy banks and get to work on some new and exciting things!

[Gator]

Is it selfish of me to be glad that attendance hasn't grown? So that there might be less of this for me to put up with: :crowd:
:D

Nope. I was thinking the same thing. What's great is that attendance will be the same AND I get free dining.

I'm sure Harry Potter is taking some of that "tweener" crowd. I don't know if there's anything WDW has to compete with that age group. Maybe if they bought the marketing rights to Lord of the Rings, me and all my white&nerdy friends will show up a lot more often.

[Tekneek]

And right in the middle of this, they jacked up their prices. When they did it, the usual defenders called out that the demand is obviously there to justify continuing to raise the prices. Hmmm...

If they did not behave so arrogantly about all of this, I would actually care more. Instead, I find myself liking this.

[LVT]

I am surprised the attendance is even that high. I consider this a depression that will not be going away soon.

[DizneyRox]

And right in the middle of this, they jacked up their prices. When they did it, the usual defenders called out that the demand is obviously there to justify continuing to raise the prices.
I think the way it really went down was revenue was dropping like a lead balloon and they raised the prices as a money grab from those already coming to attempt to head it off.

I'm a big fan of the "I told you so" moment.

I think there are bigger problems right now however. Disney has in the past few years went from Industry leader to follower. Their reputation is already tarnished. Getting people back is going to be a lot harder unless someone eats crow, and I don't think they are ready for that yet.

Sadly, something tells me they are sitting back waiting for the economy to pick back up, thinking people will come back. I for one, don't think that's going to happen. There's a lot more going out there than Mickey Mouse, and they let people (probably too many) get a sample.

[A Big Kid]

After reading this, words escape me. No! Wait! I do have the words, "Well, Duh!"

The Disney Magic gets fewer and far in between. From less than enthusiastic CM's to evidence of sorely lacking maintenance (burned out bulbs -on the Conty no less- shabby rooms, attractions held together with duct tape, etc) they falter.

The only thing you can count on is ever higher prices and lowering levels of service.

We have been from a 2 to 3 trip a year family to once ever 2 or 3 years.

[Ian]

Sadly, something tells me they are sitting back waiting for the economy to pick back up, thinking people will come back. I for one, don't think that's going to happenI definitely think you're right. To some degree, they did the same thing immediately after 9/11. In fact, that was really the beginning of the end for WDW if you ask me. The cuts that happened post-9/11 were hasty, overdone, and (IMO) not much more than a money grab. They used the post-9/11 tourism slump as an excuse to do something they'd been dying to do for years ... stop spending so much money keeping the place up and running.

The truth is, I think they know they're damaging the brand and not doing what's needed to bring back repeat guests. I think they know that the cheap merchandise and bad food is leading to people spending less money. I think that's why you see them with all these other ways to generate revenue, like pushing DVC and building millionaire playgrounds on property.

They're just looking for other ways to fill in the gaps and plug the holes in the cash flow.

[BriarRose0708]

You know, I still think that many guests who only have one opportunity in their lifetimes to visit WDW still have an incredible trip. I understand the limitations the economy has put on attractions, maintenance and services but this isn't happening just at Disney Parks. Yes WWoHP made an impact and I for one can't wait to visit Universal Orlando one day. I also understand where many of you are coming from that have been fortunate enough to visit WDW multiple times and I am sorry that you have had to witness the "decline" over the past 10 to 15 years and you should have a right to enjoy all of your trips in the way you'd like to. But I am getting a little tired of reading the same opinions that Disney should just get off their rear ends and do something about it, and 'hey, we told you so." I am sure the situation isn't making anyone at Disney very happy to have to make cuts and adjustments that they know aren't in the best interests of Cast Members and guests. Bottom line is they have a business to run, and I am not going to pretend to know everything about how a major international corporation is run, so I could also be just making things up.

To those who know what WDW used to be like of course are going to notice this much more than the guest who visits once or twice in their lifetime. But it seems unfair to me to keep bringing up the "glory days" because I feel it implies that first or second time guests who visit today have some kind of "substandard" experience when they have nothing else to compare it to.

[DizneyRox]

... it implies that first or second time guests who visit today have some kind of "substandard" experience when they have nothing else to compare it to.
Unfortuantely, that's true... It is substandard compared to years past. I'm not faulting people for not experiencing what they could have a number of years ago, their vacation is still their vacation. Just imagine how much better it could have been... That's all we're really saying...

To say it's still OK is what they are banking on (no pun intended).

We get the whole DIsney is a business idea... But when it's so obvious that profit is now the only real goal of the company, it's time to take another look at how you do business.

[Tekneek]

If Disney handling the training and maintenance properly is going to force them to post losses, then I'm wondering why they are doing so well? Why are they putting more cruise ships out there? They must be finding the money somewhere. The problem is that this business, Disney, is spending a lot of money on other things. They could do WDW right, and keep it at the top of the charts, but they simply do not want to.

I'm not sure I share the view that Disney is making choices with WDW that they do not want to. I'm convinced that they've cut and slashed various important things because they wanted to spend the money elsewhere and hoped they could get away with it forever.

They are trying to do the one thing that spells the kiss of death for leadership and innovation. They are hoping and praying to stay just slightly "better than norm for the industry." That's why it is biting them in the rear when Universal actually pulls out something excellent. Their plan to tread water didn't account for the competition making a serious improvement. The indictment was obvious when a bunch of Imagineers went over there for tours.

[DizneyRox]

Tours or training? :D

I've always felt that IOA is one of the best themed park in Central Florida (second maybe to AK IMHO). I'm not sure why it should come as a surprise to them.

And let's face it, this isn't a surprise... Discounting next year was a sure sign that they saw this way back and figured they needed to get a jump on next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see even more radical discounts if/when the current rounds don't bring people in lke the need.

I'm out next year... I think there were plans for a family outing planned by my parents for the kids and grandkids, but that isn't going to happen either. We're all going on vacation next year though, just not to Disney.

[Janmac]

Nikki, aka BriarRose0708, if you could visit Magic Kingdom as it existed back in 1972, say, you'd think that was a substandard experience compared to even, yes, today's experience.

Your visit is just what it is: your visit. Without apologies. It can't be substandard to you if you enjoyed yourself. It's still better than most of the alternatives.

Castmembers I have spoken to over the years notice the same unfortunate (pun intended) corporate shift that we are talking about here. Bottom line to me: help make a CM's day more magical, and we all have a good day.

Jan

[Ian]

The problem is that this business, Disney, is spending a lot of money on other things. They could do WDW right, and keep it at the top of the charts, but they simply do not want to.I'm fairly certain (based on things I've read, stuff I've heard from folks I talk to, and general intuition) that Disney views WDW as the corporate cash cow. The goose that lays the golden eggs.

The difference is, they don't appear to believe that the goose can be killed. They have as much come right out and said that they feel like going to Disney World is an experience that everyone has to have once in a lifetime, so they essentially take their guests for granted. In their mind, there are only two types of WDW guests ... the "once in a lifetimers" and the "Disney nerds/repeat visitors."

I think they believe that the former is only coming once and the latter will always keep coming back. So they take their money ... as much of it as they can possibly get ... and then they go spend it in other places to try and make more money.

And look the bottom line is they have the right to run the business the way they want to. I just don't happen to believe the model they're operating under right now is sustainable long term and I think some of the ad hoc revenue streams they've been exploring lately demonstrate that they're aware of that, as well. The way Corporations work, I fully expect that WDW's leadership is just trying to sustain their revenue stream, by any means necessary, because that will ensure their continued employment and continued fat bonus checks.

The long term health and well-being of the resort, the theme parks, and the brand overall is not something they're worried about.

[DizneyRox]

Most of the corporate suits are on the five year plan anyway. Gone are the days where a CEO/CFO/CIO/ETC stays for much longer than that, so really, what do they care about long term results? That will be someone elses problem...

[princessgirls]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked. They slacked and slacked and slacked and cut and cut and cut and did absolutely nothing to keep guests coming back for more because they got arrogant and believed they could with no repercussions.

And then Universal caught them with their collective pants down with WWoHP. Hopefully, this will spur some positive changes at WDW to counter Universal's superior offering.

And you know even this whole sudden shift to only releasing domestic park numbers just smacks of their arrogance. They had no trouble releasing their individual attendance numbers when they were dominating, but all of a sudden things don't go their way and they get all sneaky. And they can't even come out and admit it ... they have to cobble together some mumbo-jumbo about it being "appropriate to their business as it's conducted today."

Really?? Please ... they've been international since the early 80's! How dumb do they think we are??

Ian...you are so right!
I'm thinking that the so called "bean counters" never bet on a large amount of educated consumers...or on the Powers of Harry Potter. Got to give it to Universal, they got themselves a good thing going on.
Julie:mickey:

[Ian]

Most of the corporate suits are on the five year plan anyway. Gone are the days where a CEO/CFO/CIO/ETC stays for much longer than that, so really, what do they care about long term results? That will be someone elses problem...Yeah, that's another problem wrought by stock options.

When you stand to make $100 million by exercising your options, what motivation do you have to care about the company beyond the next two to three years?

[Joannelet]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked. They slacked and slacked and slacked and cut and cut and cut and did absolutely nothing to keep guests coming back for more because they got arrogant and believed they could with no repercussions.

And then Universal caught them with their collective pants down with WWoHP. Hopefully, this will spur some positive changes at WDW to counter Universal's superior offering.

And you know even this whole sudden shift to only releasing domestic park numbers just smacks of their arrogance. They had no trouble releasing their individual attendance numbers when they were dominating, but all of a sudden things don't go their way and they get all sneaky. And they can't even come out and admit it ... they have to cobble together some mumbo-jumbo about it being "appropriate to their business as it's conducted today."

Really?? Please ... they've been international since the early 80's! How dumb do they think we are??


Ian you hit the nail on the head with this!!!
I am shocked that they aren't releasing numbers any longer. Wow.....

[MOJoe]

Most of the corporate suits are on the five year plan anyway. Gone are the days where a CEO/CFO/CIO/ETC stays for much longer than that, so really, what do they care about long term results? That will be someone elses problem...

Lots of truth in this. Disney, really isn't being run any differently than any other mega-corporation these days. Outsource as much as possible. Lower costs by reducing staff, trimming maitenance, and buying the cheapest materials for resale. Market your image as the highest quality, and charge accordingly. These things can be said of many, many big businesses.

Problems inevitably arise from this business model, as many here have noted. It's hard to cost cut your way to excellence. But it's also very hard to turn back, once you start down that road. It will take alot more than a few quarters of unfavorable comps to Universal's attendence figures to change the mindset at WDW. True vision and leadership is the real answer. A rare thing these days.

[Tekneek]

True vision and leadership is the real answer. A rare thing these days.

They teach all those other things at "MBA School." Being somebody without one, I wonder if that becoming the standard for executive leaders has done more harm than good.

[FamilyBand1]

I must be missing something, but there never seems to be a down time like before. We live in the Tampa Bay area and go a few times a month. The first couple weeks of December are no longer dead times when it comes to crowds. We even went in the middle of the week!
Maybe this article only reflects the summer months, which we avoid like the plague because of the crowds.
Seems like the dollar taking a dump and the new Florida resident payment plan has helped bump up the crowds. I'll blame Samantha Brown for ruining the 'two weeks after Thanksgiving' secret.

[Ian]

Problems inevitably arise from this business model, as many here have noted.It's actually a deeper problem than this. The evolution of this business model is what happens when a corporation gets arrogant and forgets what got them where they are. They start thinking inside-out instead of outside-in. "We're the best. WE know what the people want and we'll TELL them what they want and they'll do it OUR way, because OUR way is the best!"

The American auto industry is the prime example of this and look where it got them.

[DizneyRox]

The American auto industry is the prime example of this and look where it got them.
Bailouts?

[Ian]

Bailouts?True, but only GM got a bailout. And look at the brands ... Chrysler, Dodge, Pontiac, Hummer, Oldsmobile .. many of them gone completely.

Although in fairness, if Disney could blame a bankruptcy on the economic downturn it wouldn't shock me to see them get a bailout, as well. They're as quintessentially American as GM or Chase.

[MOJoe]

It's actually a deeper problem than this. The evolution of this business model is what happens when a corporation gets arrogant and forgets what got them where they are. They start thinking inside-out instead of outside-in. "We're the best. WE know what the people want and we'll TELL them what they want and they'll do it OUR way, because OUR way is the best!"

The American auto industry is the prime example of this and look where it got them.

I absolutely agree. Corporate arrogance brings with it a host of issues. And the moral hazard that taxpayer bailouts creates doesn't help. Though as far as Disney goes, they are nowhere near that point.
Nonetheless, a good dose of humility never hurt anyone.

[DizneyRox]

Chrysler didn't take the bailout? I thought the only one who didn't was Ford, but I really wasn't paying that much attention. I don't buy American cars, so I really didn't care too much (and I was too concerned about other things to think deeply about the global ramifications).

[Jared]

The vitriol in this thread is overwhelming. Do some of you own significant shares of the Disney corporation?

Don't like the direction of the parks, stop going. It's simple. No reason to take Disney World's recent struggles as a personal affront. There are plenty of fabulous vacation destinations on this planet. I

I am amazed by how many people here sound deeply offended. Too many things to be angry about to spend more than 10 seconds lamenting Disney's follies.

This is business. If Disney fails, another company will rise and steal its place in the market. Maybe we are seeing that with Universal right now. Maybe not.

Frankly, I have been to the Harry Potter land. The main ride is fantastic -- the best in all of Central Florida. The rest is pretty unmemorable. I'm not a Disney apologist by any stretch. I generally agree with most of the points made here. I just don't care enough to write with such passion and intensity about it.

Life's too short.

[Altair]

It's interesting that Disney and shareholders want very crowded parks, but most quests want to go when there are very small crowds. Right now I think there are two active threads worrying about crowd size. :mickey:

[BellesRose]

I must be missing something, but there never seems to be a down time like before. We live in the Tampa Bay area and go a few times a month. The first couple weeks of December are no longer dead times when it comes to crowds. We even went in the middle of the week!
Maybe this article only reflects the summer months, which we avoid like the plague because of the crowds.
Seems like the dollar taking a dump and the new Florida resident payment plan has helped bump up the crowds. I'll blame Samantha Brown for ruining the 'two weeks after Thanksgiving' secret.
Hey, I live in your area :thumbsup:
I couldn't agree more. I went to Epcot in November expecting low crowds. It wasn't packed solid, but it was pretty crowded. I won't renew my annual pass next year, because I expect it to just keep getting worse. I know people will argue until they are blue in the face, but I do believe Disney needs more space/land to build more stuff. If a family is going to expand, the first thing they do is look for a bigger home.

[Mousemates]

The vitriol in this thread is overwhelming. Do some of you own significant shares of the Disney corporation?...........I am amazed by how many people here sound deeply offended. Too many things to be angry about to spend more than 10 seconds lamenting Disney's follies.

Not sure why you are amazed...remember this is a site dedicated exclusively to WDW, where most of the folks have an emotional attachment (based on intangible things like personal childhood dreams, nostalgia and family memories).

Most companies/investments (i.e. Exxon, Citigroup, Pfizer) simply do not elicit those kinds of feelings... and thus to suggest the "vitriol" flows from something as crass as poor investment performance suggests a failure to understand what made Disney a different kind of company and what WDW has meant to a lot of people.

This is a Disney fan (fanatic) board...passion is to be somewhat expected.

[Jared]

This is a Disney fan (fanatic) board...passion is to be somewhat expected.
Until the fanatics start speaking with their wallets, it's hypocritical and ludicrous to expect anything to change. Why would Disney pander to the people who post on this board? For the last 20 years they have proven that they will keep spending thousands of dollars at Disney World regardless of the resort's direction.

Is there a limit to that? I think so, but I haven't seen it yet, have you? How many of the people complaining here have actually sold their DVC? Or canceled their annual passes? Some, perhaps.

But not many.

[ChipNDale79]

Until the fanatics start speaking with their wallets, it's hypocritical and ludicrous to expect anything to change. Why would Disney pander to the people who post on this board? For the last 20 years they have proven that they will keep spending thousands of dollars at Disney World regardless of the resort's direction.

Is there a limit to that? I think so, but I haven't seen it yet, have you? How many of the people complaining here have actually sold their DVC? Or canceled their annual passes? Some, perhaps.

But not many.

I actually didnt renew my AP....

[fielin]

I actually didnt renew my AP....

... and I actually chose not to go to disneyworld in 2011, and to visit Universal, Seaworld and Busch Garden.

[DizneyRox]

Cruuuuusssiiiiiiinnn...

[Jll3Sonex]

Cruuuuusssiiiiiiinnn...

And not on a Disney ship, either...

For less than double the price of a 5-day ticket per person, you get room, virtually unlimited food, 4 to 5 star dining experiences, entertainment, AND motion sickness! What a deal! :thedolls:

Pick the right ship, and you've even got an on-board waterpark.

When you consider how much you're going to spend to stay on property, how much you're going to spend to eat, and how much the tickets cost... all of a sudden a cruise looks very attractive. Yeah, you won't have Space Mountain or Mission:Space - but you could have helmet-diving or dolphin cuddling in Cozumel instead.

The problem is that there's a lot of competition for the tourist dollar. For Disney to keep drawing, the experience has to be exceptional, and at best now it's just kind of okay. Without the high levels of maintenance and continued investment, they're going to slide further. In another 10 years, they might be down to Six-Flags status, which would be a darn shame.

The cost to get them back to 5-star position, unfortunately, will likely be a lot more than it would have cost to keep WDW 5-star in the first place.

[Mousemates]

Until the fanatics start speaking with their wallets, it's hypocritical and ludicrous to expect anything to change. Why would Disney pander to the people who post on this board? For the last 20 years they have proven that they will keep spending thousands of dollars at Disney World regardless of the resort's direction.

Is there a limit to that? I think so, but I haven't seen it yet, have you? How many of the people complaining here have actually sold their DVC? Or canceled their annual passes? Some, perhaps.

But not many.

Well, we are actually cutting WAY back on theme park expenditures and trip length. This year we are cruising and will only be spending two night at WDW (with only a single park day) and last year our longest stay was four nights for our anniversary. For us WDW is becoming more of a place to stay a few nights while in the course of our vacation travels than a "never leave the property" vacation destination.

Yes, even if things don't improve a whole lot, we will likely continue to go for a couple days each year. My wife and I have a lot of memories (from both our childhoods and our kid's childhoods at WDW) that we enjoy having "come to mind" while we walk through the parks. However, going from eight nights a year to two nights a year represents a seventy-five cut in the revenue WDW resorts, restaurants and themeparks receive from us...so I would guess my pocketbook has spoken as well.

[Ian]

When you consider how much you're going to spend to stay on property, how much you're going to spend to eat, and how much the tickets cost... all of a sudden a cruise looks very attractive.You know it's funny you say that, because it was exactly that (a cruise) that started me thinking that maybe Disney World was getting a bit overpriced in comparison to the experience.

I really felt like our NCL cruise gave us a lot more bang for our buck. As soon as our twins are old enough, we'll definitely be cruising again.

[Jll3Sonex]

You know it's funny you say that, because it was exactly that (a cruise) that started me thinking that maybe Disney World was getting a bit overpriced in comparison to the experience.

I really felt like our NCL cruise gave us a lot more bang for our buck. As soon as our twins are old enough, we'll definitely be cruising again.
We went on a Carnival cruise this fall. The attention to detail shown by the maintenance crew was impressive, and the public areas and bathrooms were spotless. No worn paint or varnish allowed, bulbs were promptly replaced, nothing was allowed to stay less than shiny or clean.

There was a water park and two water slides, movies, live entertainment - and Carnival isn't one of the top-rated lines, either.

Seems to me (through my jaded memories) that sort of attention to detail used to be common at the parks, but isn't any longer. They've gone from "going for the best" to "Good enough for now - someone's just going to come along and mess it up anyway."

And I'll admit, when you've got a passenger-crew ratio of about 3 to 1 in a relatively small space, it's a lot easier to focus on maintaining the environment for the customer. (Makes me wonder if there's an optimal CM/sq ft level for operations and maintenance to keep it sparkling and spotless...)

Only drawback to the cruise is that I can't give blood for a year - turned out Roatan, Honduras is potentially malarial, and the Red Cross has put me on hold for a bit. For all the complaints about WDW, you don't have to worry about malaria at Ft. Wilderness.

I'll admit, I'd LIKE to take a Disney cruise to compare the two. The price, though, is a bit steep for our wallets.

[Ian]

I'll admit, I'd LIKE to take a Disney cruise to compare the two. The price, though, is a bit steep for our wallets.Again ... same reaction I have. The same cruise we took on NCL (7 day Mexican Riv) would have cost us triple on DCL.

Now look ... I'm sure DCL is good, but come on! Triple the cost good??? No way. I'd like to, but I honestly doubt I'll ever cruise DCL. The cost is just wya too out of whack with other good cruiselines.

Kinda funny about the malaria in WDW, although remember ... there are gators!

[DizneyRox]

As i've said before, it's really hard to beat the value of a cruise. Can't wait for our July trip...

Been on RCCL and Disney and both were great, but the Disney one was only a good value when you consider I got the CM rate, which was about $700-$800 I think pp for a 7 night cruise. The real prices are so out of touch with the rest of the industry, but again, Disney thinks they are worth it, and they add that surcharge (and people DO pay it).

RCCL is getting Shrek and ours will be one of the ships with them on board. Not sure what I think about that just yet, but it's something. I'll hold judgment till i get back. We'll see what the little one says.

It's been a few years, but as the PP said, it's astonishing the maintenance that happens on the boat. RCCL (probably most others too) paint at each port, the stairways and other public areas are always clean, metal was shiny, glass was clear, etc. Definitely head and shoulders above what Disney is currently doing in the parks.

One thing that's always been a pain though, and nobody gets it right, is debarkation. I thought Disney would have done it right, but they were no better. Only thing missing is the door hitting you in the back end on the way down the gantry. It probably seems worse though because of all the pampering for the week prior.

I'll admit though, value diminishes quickly if you're a drinker. Glad I never picked up that habit...

[Granny Jill A]

I wonder what percentage of their visitors are repeaters, and how many repeat visits are from folks like me who have visited multiple times over the past decade.

Are they marketing to just those first-timers who can't compare the good ol' days to now?

It appears that the cutbacks at WDW are following the pattern set by Disneyland some years ago. Although DL is now having to play catch-up with maintenance issues and bad marketing decisions.

[Melanie]

It appears that the cutbacks at WDW are following the pattern set by Disneyland some years ago. Although DL is now having to play catch-up with maintenance issues and bad marketing decisions.

Are you speaking of California Adventure? Because I couldn't disagree more as far as Disneyland Park and the resort as a whole goes. They've got it together out there, much more so than WDW.

[Granny Jill A]

Are you speaking of California Adventure? Because I couldn't disagree more as far as Disneyland Park and the resort as a whole goes. They've got it together out there, much more so than WDW.

Yes, I'm thinking of CA and DL - several years ago they were in a world of hurt with deferred maintenance, changes in management, etc. They appear to be working hard to fix those problems and return the "original" to its' former glory :D

I just hope WDW doesn't go down that path and have to struggle with similar issues.

[Melanie]

Yes, I'm thinking of CA and DL - several years ago they were in a world of hurt with deferred maintenance, changes in management, etc. They appear to be working hard to fix those problems and return the "original" to its' former glory :D

I just hope WDW doesn't go down that path and have to struggle with similar issues.

Yes, Disneyland did go through such things, and I personally think WDW is somewhat to that point now, but Disneyland Park is in wonderful shape and has been for years. Seems that 50th anniversary thing had something to do with that. ;) With the CA redo and the Disneyland Hotel refurb (which was really needed, but not so much for lack of maintenance), they will be set. Too bad they can't all take tips from Tokyo Disney though - now that's a well taken care of resort!

[wire0monkey]

I, for one, am happy to see WDW getting its rear end kicked.

It actually strikes me completely opposite. WDW attendance rates held steady in the face of a huge economic recession, terrible unemployment numbers, and stiff competition from the Harry Potter land at US. Under the circumstances, they're doing well.

They didn't grow, but they didn't take a loss.

They do need to look to future growth, but if I were an exec, I wouldn't be displeased with those numbers.

[Ian]

It actually strikes me completely opposite. WDW attendance rates held steady in the face of a huge economic recession, terrible unemployment numbers, and stiff competition from the Harry Potter land at US. Under the circumstances, they're doing well.You have to read a little deeper ... in the face of all those same issues, Universal managed a 30%+ increase in attendance.

Now the question is, is Universals increased share of the market sustainable or will they slide back after the novelty of WWoHP wears off.

[wire0monkey]

You have to read a little deeper ... in the face of all those same issues, Universal managed a 30%+ increase in attendance.


I know that. The Universal parks were underattended compared to WDW, though, an they added Harry Potter. That 30% growth rate in attendance is over some pretty poor starting numbers.

US and IOA are great parks. Universal has the best ride-tech in the industry in my opinion. "The Simpsons" is jaw-droppingly great. It's the best ride in Orlando. It far surpasses anything Disney has done from a technical perspective. I haven't ridden the new Harry Potter ride yet, so we'll have to see. There is good theming and other benefits there. My kids were extremely engaged by Sueuss Landing than anything at MK. What they didn't have was a major brand to draw people in. Harry Potter is the headliner that they needed.

That said, it is a problem for Disney because that 30% growth is coming to a large extent from people who are adding US and IOA to their WDW trip. They're taking days away from people being in the Disney parks. That doesn't effect ticket sales in any huge numbers, because the price of a WDW gets incrementally cheaper the more days you add. It does have to hit gross revenues, though. Disney wants to sell more lunches and ice cream bars and souveniers, as much as they want to sell tickets.